Resource shortages idea

[Entropy]

I was think that it would be cool to simulate some RL events in the EL economy.

For example, resource shortages: Every RL week, one RANDOM harvesting resource would not be harvestible.

There are a few advantages to that, such as:

1. The items made with that resource will be more expensive.

2. Would allow for a better "Commodity market", and some speculations as well.

3. Get rid of some resources in the game.

 

So what do you think?

If you are against that idea, I want an intelligent post, replies such as "omfg", "ruin/destroy" will be deleted and the posters posibly banned from the forums.

[bigkav]

Great idea, could be great although it would only affect the desperate people ? i wait for others opinions

[Elveron]

I think I would just make something else that week.

 

It's an interesting idea though, to perhaps have certain locations have a daily 'stock' of a harvestable. When they run out for that day, clicking on it gives you some cheeky comment like "Law of supply and demand: the supply is gone, I make the law, and I demand you look elsewhere".

 

That way most ings would still be available, just harder to find...

[Kidberg]

I just think people would hoard resources more due to the chance that they may need it and it may not be harvestable that week. So it just allows more people to have a reason to hoard. And why are we wanting to make things rise in price? Most things now do not get a profit when making them. When binding stones, serp stones, etc rise in price on the market, the other things in the market that are made by those, usually do not. Just like Great Swords should really be 26-28k in price but yet they sell for 21-23k. That loss adds up.

[MysticViper]

i think its a great idea, would deffinatly keep the market moving and help reduce any over stock of items

[kailomonkey]

Who needs more stress, real life has enough >.<

 

But that aside, sure might be interesting localised shortages might be nice too, say sometimes c1 and sometimes c2. Ofcourse all such things receive a *sigh* but can't see it doing much harm if the time periods are kept relatively short. I guess it mght force people to build a stock of things they usually woudn't, and some to maybe wait for good markets for their goods, which could reduce the sellers. Who knows, I wouldn't panic about the effects given, as already said, the short periods of sparsity.

[Entropy]

I just think people would hoard resources more due to the chance that they may need it and it may not be harvestable that week.

 

More hoarding means less production

[csiga]

Its only ok, when there will be the opposite way too, like another resource of increased harvest rate, like less time than the recommended level needs so we can harv faster, or double excavator day.

Another idea is to make the calendar working (not only for information for day name): if there will be seasons on continents, some flowers may harvestable faster, some may not. To keep in the normal way, c1 can have different season than c2 (maybe opposite semiphere of the same planet)

[Kidberg]

I just think people would hoard resources more due to the chance that they may need it and it may not be harvestable that week.

 

More hoarding means less production

True. Either way is fine by me. Will be interesting to see how things turn out.

[Entropy]

Its only ok, when there will be the opposite way too, like another resource of increased harvest rate, like less time than the recommended level needs so we can harv faster, or double excavator day.

Another idea is to make the calendar working (not only for information for day name): if there will be seasons on continents, some flowers may harvestable faster, some may not. To keep in the normal way, c1 can have different season than c2 (maybe opposite semiphere of the same planet)

 

That's an interesting idea which I always wanted to do (having seasons), but it is hard to implement for technical reasons. We'd need 2 (or even 4) versions of each map..

[jvg]

Its only ok, when there will be the opposite way too, like another resource of increased harvest rate, like less time than the recommended level needs so we can harv faster, or double excavator day.

Another idea is to make the calendar working (not only for information for day name): if there will be seasons on continents, some flowers may harvestable faster, some may not. To keep in the normal way, c1 can have different season than c2 (maybe opposite semiphere of the same planet)

 

That's an interesting idea which I always wanted to do (having seasons), but it is hard to implement for technical reasons. We'd need 2 (or even 4) versions of each map..

 

great ideas csiga, like them

 

@radu: it will be such a great improvement to have seasons, will make the game even better , maybe it will be much of work, but once it's done, it will look great

[Spidi]

i really like this idea!

[Junior~BR~]

For example, resource shortages: Every RL week, one RANDOM harvesting resource would not be harvestible.

There are a few advantages to that, such as:

1. The items made with that resource will be more expensive.

2. Would allow for a better "Commodity market", and some speculations as well.

3. Get rid of some resources in the game.

 

I no think this will work because going to raise the prices and newbies will must work more to get basic itens causing stress (think.. i logged on and recieve the notive "via gossip" "theres all food stocks runned out! the starvation is on all Draia!"

Damm ... How i going to finish my fire essences now?

I going out them back letter... )

How much will cost 1 festing potions? theres no other kind of food "harvestble" avable... so... who want to "work" must pay.

 

This will cause too speculations on all game due incerteses about what will be the next "problem"

I guess we already got too much troubles on this RL World Economy Crisis...

 

Let's just leave this running as well.

[Entropy]

@radu: it will be such a great improvement to have seasons, will make the game even better , maybe it will be much of work, but once it's done, it will look great

 

This idea also requires 2 or 4 version for a lot of objects and textures. Not really doable with the resources we have.

[Usl]

For example, resource shortages: Every RL week, one RANDOM harvesting resource would not be harvestible.

Is that the entire class of resources (e.g., ALL sulfur in the game) or a specific place (e.g., only the sulfur in Crystal Caves)?

 

As an alternative, why not blocking certain passages instead (e.g., closing the entrance to Crystal Caves)? That would have several advantages over the "no sulfur this week" idea:

• simulate a RL event (cave collapse, broken bridge, etc.)
  
• encourages player to seek alternative harvesting places (no CC? look for sulfur elsewhere! -> more exploration of unused maps)
  
• would provide a mix of resources blocked (not just one type, but all those in a place)
  
• people who has left hyperbags there would likely do anything to get back at them
  

The latter point actually links this idea to the old idea of "lost" invasions causing damage (e.g., we loose on an invasion, some resource on that map becomes inaccessible) and of requiring some collaborative action to restore it (e.g., by using an invasion token, or a certain amount of GCs - GIWS style). In short, this idea would provide an additional incentive to participate in invasions, or at least to work later on repairing the damage. Of course, when the construction skill will be here, things could get more interesting...

 

From an implementation point of view, it should not be too difficult, as map changes are sent to the server anyway; I am not sure how easily maps there can be updated (maybe by a "reload" command, without restarting the server?). Of course, exiting the cave should still be allowed, or people would be trapped inside (which is a little too much RL for my tastes!).

 

Having said that, I think the original idea is still good, any variety in the game helps in not turning it into a habit.

[SirAlland]

It occurs to me that it would be easier to ask multiple questions here than channel 4, so:

(I'll re-list the questions I already asked, so others can see I guess)

• As per the "Random" part - will every harvestable is numbered and a random number is generated?
  
• Would there be some sort of system so that a harvestable couldn't be "removed" twice in a row? (though this is unlikely)
  
• Will some items be exempt from the possibility? (Like the level 0 or 1 harvest items?)
  
• Will there be a notification of what item was "removed" or will the player just find out when they try to harvest it?
  

• 3. Get rid of some resources in the game.

  How? Sorry, just confused
  
• Will there be situations where more than 1 item cannot be harvested during that time? Example: All types of mushroom can't be harvested (including red toadstool), both types of lilly can't be harvested, or all types of quartz can't be harvested.
  

Apologies for any questions answered while I was slowly typing away at this

 

Edit: Usl, I like your version also particularly this part:

...and of requiring some collaborative action to restore it (e.g., ...or a certain amount of GCs - GIWS style)

It'd be like paying taxes to the government so they will fix the roads/etc and we can get where we want to go Edited October 20, 2008 by SirAlland

[bkc56]

A point of clarification please...

Every RL week, one RANDOM harvesting resource would not be harvestible.

Would a "resource" be (for example) all red roses in general, or a specific resource like the red roses in VotD? I'd assume the first as the loss of a specific resource wouldn't matter much.

 

While I don't see any real problem with this proposal (if I don't have a supply in storage, I'll simply wait until next week to make whatever it is), I don't see any particular benefit to the game either. It would be more of an inconvenience to anyone who happened to want to harvest that item that particular week.

 

If we're looking for a hint of realism, I think seasonal differences would be more appropriate. A rose bush might generate one rose/harvest in the winter, but perhaps two or three per harvest in the spring/summer. It might stretch the logic to apply seasonal changes to minerals/ores/gems, but still possible. Perhaps some caves are flooded during the rainy season, or simply generate less items due to the wet conditions. Another form could be that some outdoor items can't be harvested at night due to poor visibility.

 

If we (and I'm not saying we do) want some variable availability of resources, I think there are more realistic ways to do it than a simple weekly random resource. And associating availability with other factors (like seasons) would add more realism to production as there would be clear times to gather ingredients and other times to mix. You now get into true speculation as people decide if they should harvest for 50K or 200K FEs during the spring to support their winter mixing. Mix to few, and the price starts to climb. Mix to many and it falls. True supply/demand pricing.

 

No "vote" here, just some idea to consider.

 

Edit: I can see I type to slow as my question and most points are covered above...

 

Edit 2: If the rate of havest can't be changed because it's a map edit (from above comments) perhaps the speed of harvest could be modified (assuming that's a server setting). So (using my examples above) roses harvest faster in the spring/summer, slower in the winter.

Edited October 20, 2008 by bkc56

[Burn]

Melinis rug made unharvable. Gypsum harvers taking the long walk...

 

As much as I hate the thought of yet another negative change being made for harving, this one at least serves a purpose other than "random let's-make-it-harder".

 

I was immediately reminded of when Radu (er, you) went on vacation, and the screaming over how rosto prices were close to doubled.

 

 

This idea would:

- make people think and stock in advance "just in case"

- change the market (for a while) to where that item and the stuff it is used to make is more in demand.

- It's only a week. It'll have an effect, but the silver lining (if silver is harvable...) being that the week will be over "soon".

- Market fluctuation that just doesn't happen with normal game play. A little spice to the quid pro quo.

- Sudden change in economy again as the item becomes harvable, and another becomes unharvable.

 

Er, that last line gave a thought... it shouldn't be constant. One week something unharvable, the next week all is well, repeat. Always having something unharvable would eventually get very annoying. MTV annoying.

 

 

 

So, even as someone who tires of the harvers getting the regular screw, I'm interested in seeing this happen. Assuming it gets re-evaluated after a month at most to see if it's killing the game or not.

 

I vote my 77 harv levels FOR this.

 

 

 

P.S. Invasion tokens cashed in to get the ability to harv the item for that week! Finally give those tokens a use that isn't solely a fighter benefit.

Edited October 20, 2008 by GoodDay2Die

[kailomonkey]

I liked csiga's suggestion, some double speed dung someday would be grrreat can't say if the effect on the economy would mirror in any way my personal glee though...

[Kalix]

I guess i like the idea. It would be weird seeing someone buy iron for 10gc tho.

[Entropy]

Usl's suggestion is great as well. In fact, I might do that instead.

[Kidberg]

Yeah I really like Usl's idea

Edited October 20, 2008 by Kidberg

[Rayna]

Interesting. I think it would hurt the new players and playes that have limited time to play el; and the ones with more gc/emu/time would gain an advantage, much like RL is.

 

But, may get people to har other places that they avoid for one reason or another. Get more exploring in.

 

I love the idea of seasons, but would require a lot of new maps and textures. Perhaps it could be implemented only where the favorite har places are?

 

Or the major maps? or just one on each continent? Still a lot a work just for that though.

 

I would rather the invasion and resources remain separate, but having a mine closed would work also. But some bots would be negatively affected then?

[kailomonkey]

I was thinking of suggesting such variety myself, certainly would have different effects though. Primarily causing exploration more than affecting the economy straight.

 

The idea I dreamed of long ago was some sort of dragon blocking the use of a mine by ocupying it, which alot of different level players could chip away at to save their resources But now with dragons in the game, a straight invasion at the end of the week could decide the fate of the blocked cave.

 

If that was so and you wanted some good roleplay with it, the scale of such things could vary greatly, to orc siege of a small coal cave, to the less common CC-type mass effect dragon nest. To keep people interested. That is if people like that sort of variety, I do from an imagination point of view Probably tweaked to suit people though. End rabble.

 

Roleplay and realism aside, the single resource shortage might affect people more widely, seeing as many have their favourite place for things in general...

Edited October 20, 2008 by kailomonkey

[Ateh]

Sorry to be one of the first to say I dont like it .......

 

Reasons :

 

1. Might be fine for someone who plays EL all day every day, but for those that log in a few hours a day or a few times a week, might not be so nice a game for them.

 

2. Buyers of final products in EL couldnt give a shit if the cost of ingredients goes up, they will still only pay the lowest possible price they can find ( which is usually a bot these days , sorry to say it like it is ), so just because theres a shortage of X Y Z for a week, doesnt mean any end products are going to go up in line with possible increases in base ingredients.

 

3, You say people will stop producing if theres more hoarding, which is obviously true to some extent. But I doubt it would stop anyone really, it would slow it down yes but if production slows down of say for example HE , then training slows down, PKing slows down ( this has got to be a side effect unless people already hoard thousands of HE ) and that means breaks slow down and loss of rostos slows down, in turn meaning the buying of EFE and Serp stones slow down from teh shoppe ?

 

For every action theres an eual and opposite reaction so the side effect could be that the week AFTER the slowing down of HE usage the HE get burnt more and production goes into overdrive ? Just looking at the dark side a bit

 

4. Its already enough of a bitch to have to harvest all your own st00f if your a dumbass like me and try to supply yourself for training or whatever .........

 

6. Speculation on prices ? Hmmm not sure what you mean or why that would be a good thing in EL ......... Prices for st00f keeps going down on high end items when the high end item ingredients have gone up in price. Not sure why it would be nice to see prices of the base st00f rise to because someone ''predicts'' it might be iron ore that p00fs next week therefore they charge you 7gc for half an ore.........

 

7. I dont like change ( joke )

 

8. If production slows down the economy slows down and thats perhaps something you want as a whole , but how that will play out on the players themselves is another story when some are already having a struggle to find motivation in producing high end items

 

Just my opinions, im sure someone can tell me im wrong though .........