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Entropy

Removing rule 5 (multiplaying)

Should rule 5 be removed?  

408 members have voted

  1. 1. Should rule 5 be removed?

    • Yes
      76
    • Yes but with some conditions/limitations
      96
    • No
      236


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Basic example:

 

Atm due to lack of nexus I have to buy all my potions, but if I had a potioner alt to make them for me (even if i only had one client running at a time) the market would suffer.

But you are wrong. It is not only the nexus, it is also the fact that potioning requires raw ingredients.

So then you would need like 5 harvesting alts as well, the potioner, and your main. That's 7 chars you'd need to control. Sure, maybe that's doable for a few days or weeks, but eventually you'll burn out and you'll rather just pay someone else for the potions than go through all this shit.

 

 

If you used your alt to only make what you need then only one is needed.

 

For example Atm I use thousands of sr's , with only a Potion level of 20 needed an alt could be leveled to make them for me in a few hours, and wouldnt take long to harv the ings for 10k etc, and gold is no problem for the vials/wine since the main supplies it

 

Same goes for he's etc

 

and would be quite easy to mix them while training a/d, just check the alts window during re-spawn time

 

Also it would give me ~25 free PP's as a fighter, since I could get rid of my nex and take HoS and anti with no negative consequences. (I know lots of fighters take those anyway, but I consider it too much of a pain in the ass since I also harv and mix stuff for gc and personal use)

 

I think it would make all-arounders obsolete - you'd just have fighters and mixers, with some harv mules thrown in.

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Alts would mean more crowed at storages, more crowd at the best harvesting places, this would mean more lagg, more lagg means less fun.

But this is the same result as a large influx of new people. Are we afraid of the game expanding?

If a new player is entering the game will not know the best harvesting places, and will not stay on c2 storages all the time, with real players not alts you have a homogenized crowed in areas, like storages and harvesting spots, but with alts, it will not count because who can run 5+ clients will not lagg if there are 10 or 100 players at one time.

So not afraid that the game will be bigger. I would be happy to see it getting bigger and bigger, but not with this cost.

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Ok, I have a question. WHY do we need/want the rule #5 changed?

 

1. To allow families play without restrictions?

Then I think we could rather think of a way of proving they're really honest, separate people - I agree with Davench here. IMHO it's the only reason we should even start considering removing rule #5

 

2. To let people do more things? (I mean - a person has fighter main and supporting him potion/manu alt)

You can't play actively with fighter and a mixer at the same time (well, at least I wouldn't be able to). And some time ago Entropy introduced Nexus buying for that exact reason. Want to be a potioner but you don't have nexus nor pp to get it? Buy/get hydro bars and you're set.

 

3. To make gathering raw resources easier and faster?

Come on... The game was designed this way. Harvesting does require some time and it has to, otherwise we'll have raw and finished material flood. Introducing mules was a step towards making harvesting easier (imho mules need some other, cheaper/easier to get food, but that's another matter), maybe we could think of other ways to do that (mainly: ways of raising EMU)

 

I can't think of any more sensible rasons, if I make something out I'll edit the post.

My vote is obvious now I think :P

 

EDIT: somebody suggested making afking illegal - please don't! People who know me can say I'm a professional afker :) (and I have no alts)

 

EDIT2:

 

4. It is imposible to get everyone who breaks this rule, since we are not the Gestapo.

And you're most probably not aiming for being one. Most people will get caught sooner or later (and it hurts like hell to lose a character after a year of playing...), some probably never will, but I think removing a rule only because it's impossible to enforce it fully is overshot to me. Besides, most moderators vote for keeping the rule, even if it means more work for them.

Some people commit crimes and never get caught - does that mean Penal Code should be abandoned?

Edited by Lotheneil

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I've been playing this game for a long time now, and I truely believe that Eternal Lands has been at it highest point during recent times. Removing rule 5 would bring vast changes to the lands. My vote is no.

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NEGATIVES:

1. all-rounders will be usless

2. ruins the fun of the game(with everyone haveing lots of alts)

3. the max players logged will have to be increased because of all the alts

4. storages and harvest ares will be over-crowded with the alts

5. would give fighters a major advantage as the can take HoS and anti and other neg perks which wont affect them

6. ppl would have at least 2 characters, a fighter for fighting.. and of course the mixer so the fighter gets free pps and gets the items they need

7. there would be mass flooding of the popular items and everyone will be wearing good armour

8. more names will be taken up(i know this isnt a major thing, but if 2000 people have 10 characters each then thats 20000 names that could be used by someone else, making this rule legal would mean more characters, so more names)

9. levels will be WAY to easy to lvl because you can get ingreds fast. the game is meant to be a challenge not where everyone has the best lvls over 100 etc, if anyone wants easy lvls go play runescape...

10. more lag because of many characters

11. there will be no stratergy to where you put pp's (or VERY little)

12. people will take all the high lvl monster spawns with their alts, means easier leveling for the main fighter

13. RUINS THE ECONOMY!

14. less social people as everyone will be controlling there alts while there main is fighting/mixing etc

 

POSITIVES:

1. lets same ip characters trade, i dont mean an alt i mean 2 brothers etc.

2. makes mods job a bit easier(dont have to ban so many ppls for it) but if this is the case get more help

 

this is all i can think off the top of my head, as i see it the negatives outway the positives by alot. there are way too many negatives as to the positives, and changes are generally meant to be positive.

 

i vote no for sure and hope this never gets implemented, however it would be good if you did a thing in your shop. where if players want an alt where rule 5 is made legal it would cost 50$,possibly only 1 alt per person/ip (cant have to cheap or everyone will want, and supplies some bricks :) ) this will mean the game wont be flooded with alts and you get money for it, works for all of us

 

anywayz this is my 2 cents

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(initial statement)

-----

It is funny I'm pointing out the pros of this, since it would cause me to reset, and agonize over my

lost levels I wouldn't use and relevel an alt. I have reasonably high other skills and its going to

be a big pain to level again but, I rather see the game grow if this helps all involved. Leveling summoning

from zero is going to suck :/ lol

 

 

Ok lets group these:

 

All of these negatives will happen if the game becomes more popular and we get more players:

3. the max players logged will have to be increased because of all the alts

4. storages and harvest ares will be over-crowded with the alts

 

8. more names will be taken up(i know this isnt a major thing, but if 2000 people have 10 characters each then thats 20000 names that could be used by someone else, making this rule legal would mean more characters, so more names)

10. more lag because of many characters

12. people will take all the high lvl monster spawns with their alts, means easier leveling for the main fighter

 

1. all-rounders will be usless

This is true, I know, I am a all rounder.

 

2. ruins the fun of the game(with everyone haveing lots of alts)

Highly subjective

 

5. would give fighters a major advantage as the can take HoS and anti and other neg perks which wont affect them

I don't know if you are aware of it, but they do now.

 

 

6. ppl would have at least 2 characters, a fighter for fighting.. and of course the mixer so the fighter gets free pps and gets the items they need

True, this is actually a pro.

 

7. there would be mass flooding of the popular items and everyone will be wearing good armour

Bad, how?

 

9. levels will be WAY to easy to lvl because you can get ingreds fast. the game is meant to be a challenge not where everyone has the best lvls over 100 etc, if anyone wants easy lvls go play runescape...

Getting ings fast yes, fast to level no. There is a still a human running this, are you aware people

use USD to buy gc in order to buy tons of leveling items now?

 

Have you played runscape? ever seen the exp required for 80-99(cap)? I hardly call it easy.

 

 

11. there will be no stratergy to where you put pp's (or VERY little)

Well the current strategy is , am I a fighter, or allrounder or a pure mixer, after that is just the same.

This only causes specialized charas.

 

 

13. RUINS THE ECONOMY!

I insist this statement is backed up by examples, it smells a lot like 'teh pk is dead!11~~'

 

14. less social people as everyone will be controlling there alts while there main is fighting/mixing etc

This is done now, some people have an alt they play while their main harvs, the only thing is

its illegal for them to interact.

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Voted Yes with restrictions/conditions.

 

I believe that 1 person having 2 characters is not so much of a problem. I would probably break the rule anyway if my comp was at least a bit faster -.-'

 

But even if it's voted No by the majority, some improvements should be made concerning whitelist - I've seen a handful of people who were unable to play just because their brother/sister/father/whatever is already playing EL, and have seen most of them getting banned for helping his relative. This is true for girlfriends and boyfriends too.

 

So unless some improvements were made, the rule should go.

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I think that the most of the people told their opinion about why should stay or why should be droped. If i may ask would you Ent and Aislinn tell us what is your motive that you would drop this rule??( but only if you want to make public.)

 

Thanks in advance.

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On the PK-server it is allowed to multiplay etc. Most people use their alts to make stuffs they need on their Main-charackter but dont want to 'waste' pps on.

 

I don't use more then one charackter all the time, just when I need something done asap, or when i'm getting broke again :)

 

Since GC -> $$ is not uncommon on Main server, I have visions of a new world...

 

10 people in 1 room, all playing 8 alts, working in shifts, selling gc for $$ ;p

 

^^^^ happens on other games too, lager scale tho...

Edited by ProHibited

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On the PK-server it is allowed to multiplay etc. Most people use their alts to make stuffs they need on their Main-charackter but dont want to 'waste' pps on.

 

I don't use more then one charackter all the time, just when I need something done asap, or when i'm getting broke again :)

 

Since GC -> $$ is not uncommon on Main server, I have visions of a new world...

 

10 people in 1 room, all playing 8 alts, working in shifts, selling gc for $$ ;p

 

^^^^ happens on other games too, lager scale tho...

Chinese gold farmers ftw! \o/ Well for real I think EL is bit too small game to make good profit by selling gold, so I don't see that as a problem.

 

But IF it would happen, it is bad thing for those people who want to sell some gc to pay their bills etc, because gc price would surely come down fast.

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All of these negatives will happen if the game becomes more popular and we get more players:

 

Yes, and how long before the game stagnates and people get tired of having the highest levels and the best items? It would fall to Roja and the Development Team to constantly implement new things to draw in players. Assuming these changes would increase game play is extremely short-sighted.

 

2. ruins the fun of the game(with everyone haveing lots of alts)

Highly subjective

 

Highly subjective indeed, but in the majority. Look at the number of "no" votes.

 

5. would give fighters a major advantage as the can take HoS and anti and other neg perks which wont affect them

I don't know if you are aware of it, but they do now.

 

I believe what she means is that it would effectively make negative perks useless. They would have to be removed entirely, as the whole concept of taking a "negative perk" is to incur some kind of penalty to your game play, in exchange for a token reward. Though my character isn't high levelled, I could make at 56 picket-points, without ever having to deal with the consequences.

 

6. ppl would have at least 2 characters, a fighter for fighting.. and of course the mixer so the fighter gets free pps and gets the items they need

True, this is actually a pro.

 

How? Unless you desire to make the game easier for people not willing to level, I hardly see the good point of this. It floods the game with hundreds of items, completely disrupts the flow of money between players and effectively eliminates any nessecary human interaction.

 

7. there would be mass flooding of the popular items and everyone will be wearing good armour

Bad, how?

 

People lose all reason to play the game, for one reason. Without almost constant updates, people will be running around in White Dragon Armour, with loaded storages and inventories. And then, what do we have to strive for? What's the incentive to level if you're already at the top? For proof of this, you can think of the number of high levelled fighters (100 A/D+) who sell their characters under the same pretence. For the most famous example, go to the Unofficial Forums and check out TooMass' thread.

 

9. levels will be WAY to easy to lvl because you can get ingreds fast. the game is meant to be a challenge not where everyone has the best lvls over 100 etc, if anyone wants easy lvls go play runescape...

Getting ings fast yes, fast to level no. There is a still a human running this, are you aware people

use USD to buy gc in order to buy tons of leveling items now?

 

I think her point is, while it may not be "easy" still, it will be considerably less difficult if you have alts working for you. I knew someone awhile ago (they've been banned now, I think) who made level 51 Potion in less than two weeks. If you allow the floodgates to open, think what will happen as people will be allowed to multi all they want.

 

For an example, you could try the PK server. I myself have two characters there, and harvesting (together) at lilacs I can make 10kgc very, very easily. That's just with lilacs, think what it'd be like once I moved onto, for example, titanium ore. Moreover, I know a friend who ran 5-6 alts simultaneously on the PK server. The limit of the human brain point is kind of BS, it's easier than some think to have three (to five, depending on computer speed) characters harvesting for money and having the other train AD, or any other skill. Sure, it's not as optimal as it could be, but it's definitely doable.

 

11. there will be no stratergy to where you put pp's (or VERY little)

Well the current strategy is , am I a fighter, or allrounder or a pure mixer, after that is just the same.

 

Again, I also believe she means the fact that there would literally be no thinking involved in placing PPs. Currently, you are restricted to thinking on the basis of how you want to play the game. If you want to be a fighter, you invest in P/C/I/V. If you want to be a mixer you invest in lots of nexuses. With this rule gone, it'd be simple to just have one character that has pure statistics, without ever having to face any penalty. Some people do it on the PK server, too.

 

13. RUINS THE ECONOMY!

I insist this statement is backed up by examples, it smells a lot like 'teh pk is dead!11~~'

 

There is no real "example" you can cite, but I suppose if you were looking for a scenario you could cast your mind back (or, read up on, if you weren't around) the time you could take less than nothing out of bags (the major bug, can't remember exactly what it did) and people were running around with CoLs, and bags of 60kgc were left lying around the world.

 

EL's economy as it is may not be nothing to brag about, but I think it's fine in that it regulates the flow of gold and keeps the game at an acceptable difficulty level. Meaning, you can't earn 500kgc within an hour of work (unless you do weeks of preparation before), and be instantly able to afford all the best stuff.

 

14. less social people as everyone will be controlling there alts while there main is fighting/mixing etc

This is done now, some people have an alt they play while their main harvs, the only thing is

its illegal for them to interact.

 

Yes, but that hardly puts a dent in the social structure of EL. Also, I noticed earlier you said most chat goes on at storages and ores. This is untrue, the channels and GM are significantly more active than either, to my experience.

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First of all, I want to address the family members/spouses/gf/friends/etc playing from the same IP issue that keeps coming up:

If you are legitimate multiple users from the same IP, you really have no problems. A little communication to the mod team goes a long way, and we do have ways to test for this as well. (And you will never convince me that the mule character with 48 phys and 48 coord and 50 harvest and minimal or no other stats is REALLY your little sister who wants nothing more in life than to play your game with you and haul your ores to storage.)

As to the brothers/sisters/husbands/wives etc who are "banned unfairly for no reason"? I can guarantee you that there was WAY more going on than the stories you were fed.

--One commonly occuring example: There is a HUGE difference between a husband and wife playing together helping each other with projects, even muling for each other while both are on their own characters, and a husband and/or wife using the other person's character while that person is not there to haul for them or take stuff from their inventory or pvp with it or mine/sell/whatever for them.

--Another common example: 2 brothers, 10 extra alts all trading and muling and bypassing antisocial and whatever else floats their boat.

I do agree that these people who abuse being legitimate multiple same IP users do make it a little bit stressful on honest family players, however as I pointed out, communication is key. Talk to us, follow the rules, and you will have no problems.

 

As to why we are considering this at all?

Well I will only speak for myself here. I agreed to consider it, I did not agree it was definitely the way to go. And I would not want this with no conditions. I have some serious concerns about it. I agreed to consider it because there are some benefits to it, of course. However, there are also some detriments. In my mind, it is a matter of whether or not those benefits outweigh the detriments. I am very glad to see so many people responding, both in favor of, and against, it gives me perspectives and considerations I might not have thought of.

I want to make this clear as well: this is not about making things easier for mods or me. This mod team is not the lazy sort. They are here because they believe in working to make EL the best it can be, and a fair and enjoyable environment to be in, to the best of their abilities.

 

Why we have given no examples of what conditions we would consider:

It became very quickly apparent in our initial conversation about this that while Ent and I have some similar reasons for and concerns about this, we also have some different ones. I absolutely would not agree to a flat out "yes", I will tell you that. I also will tell you I would want some pretty steep conditions that I don't even know if Ent would go along with. It is quite a project to reach a solution we both can live with and most likely even harder to make a way for these things to be enforceable. So before we go through all that, we decided to see how everyone felt and if it was worth the struggle and hard work it would most definitely end up being.

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As to why we are considering this at all?

I agreed to consider it because there are some benefits to it, of course.

I really wonder what benefits you're thinking of.

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No

 

 

Would make the game less of a challenge and to easy imo.

 

Agreed. Voted "no" myself.

Believe it or not, it's rules and restrictions that make the game fun. If "everything goes" it won't be fun anymore. Maybe it works on the PK server but how many people are logged on there on a regular basis, 25? Sure, multiplaying sounds convenient, but it's not a way to improve the gaming experience overall.

 

lilcnoot

 

Edit: This edit is for furzwei and others that use the "filthy rich = better" argument. I'm pretty filthy rich in game right now, at least for me. I haven't dropped below 1 million gc in months. But you know what? It doesn't make me enjoy the game more. Sure, I could theoretically buy a whole bunch of stuff, but what's the fun in that? It's more fun to work for it, to EARN it. And even with a bunch of money I can't buy myself levels, I still have to play to earn those. The game was harder when I was poor and had less than 10k gc in sto most of the time. But frankly, some aspects of it were more fun. I have to set my own challenges for myself now so that it still stays fun, challenges that keep me from just buying my way through the game. Maybe you have a different personality than me, but for me, just being filthy rich ig does not mean I have a better "quality of life" and thus more fun.

Edited by LilBear

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First of all, I want to address the family members/spouses/gf/friends/etc playing from the same IP issue that keeps coming up:

If you are legitimate multiple users from the same IP, you really have no problems. A little communication to the mod team goes a long way, and we do have ways to test for this as well. (And you will never convince me that the mule character with 48 phys and 48 coord and 50 harvest and minimal or no other stats is REALLY your little sister who wants nothing more in life than to play your game with you and haul your ores to storage.)

As to the brothers/sisters/husbands/wives etc who are "banned unfairly for no reason"? I can guarantee you that there was WAY more going on than the stories you were fed.

--One commonly occuring example: There is a HUGE difference between a husband and wife playing together helping each other with projects, even muling for each other while both are on their own characters, and a husband and/or wife using the other person's character while that person is not there to haul for them or take stuff from their inventory or pvp with it or mine/sell/whatever for them.

--Another common example: 2 brothers, 10 extra alts all trading and muling and bypassing antisocial and whatever else floats their boat.

I do agree that these people who abuse being legitimate multiple same IP users do make it a little bit stressful on honest family players, however as I pointed out, communication is key. Talk to us, follow the rules, and you will have no problems.

 

As to why we are considering this at all?

Well I will only speak for myself here. I agreed to consider it, I did not agree it was definitely the way to go. And I would not want this with no conditions. I have some serious concerns about it. I agreed to consider it because there are some benefits to it, of course. However, there are also some detriments. In my mind, it is a matter of whether or not those benefits outweigh the detriments. I am very glad to see so many people responding, both in favor of, and against, it gives me perspectives and considerations I might not have thought of.

I want to make this clear as well: this is not about making things easier for mods or me. This mod team is not the lazy sort. They are here because they believe in working to make EL the best it can be, and a fair and enjoyable environment to be in, to the best of their abilities.

 

Why we have given no examples of what conditions we would consider:

It became very quickly apparent in our initial conversation about this that while Ent and I have some similar reasons for and concerns about this, we also have some different ones. I absolutely would not agree to a flat out "yes", I will tell you that. I also will tell you I would want some pretty steep conditions that I don't even know if Ent would go along with. It is quite a project to reach a solution we both can live with and most likely even harder to make a way for these things to be enforceable. So before we go through all that, we decided to see how everyone felt and if it was worth the struggle and hard work it would most definitely end up being.

 

 

Than delete this rule,go anytime on pk server,there is it ok withour this * rule,we have no problems there,ok,any limits yes,but no ban us,u * life to lot of players with this rule,and u looklike now,u r doing,that this is ur game and ur world,u broke rules? ok,banned,ok,i borke this * rules more than 1x ,but u will be loosing players,who sent money into game etc...

try to think about that,u * me life thx this rule *

 

-KissofDeath

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Check how many people play on PK server (count main + alts as one) and how many play on main.

On PK server you HAVE to pay for every alt, on main not.

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Than delete this rule,go anytime on pk server,there is it ok withour this * rule,we have no problems there,ok,any limits yes,but no ban us,u * life to lot of players with this rule,and u looklike now,u r doing,that this is ur game and ur world,u broke rules? ok,banned,ok,i borke this * rules more than 1x ,but u will be loosing players,who sent money into game etc...

try to think about that,u * me life thx this rule *

 

-KissofDeath

The PK server has limits because you have to pay for each alt, and most of the areas are PK. Things will end up working very differently on the main server since it's free and mostly non-PK. Using the PK seerver as an example does NOT WORK very well because it is so different.

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Voted No (already posted earlier)

 

1. My main reason is the banned section won't be 1/2 as fun anymore to read

2. As for Multi, go PK-Server (i play there also, and i don't multi there also)

 

Just my 2 Cents

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Btw I just started thinking, that is the max amount of players in game still same 2000 accounts as it was earlier? If everyone has 3-4 alts and are playing them at same time, server would be full at "bad" days.

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