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do animals have a soul?

Do animals have a soul?  

71 members have voted

  1. 1. Do animals have a soul?

    • yes
      48
    • no
      23


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most people will say that we have a soul. or that we have something we can give back to god. that we have something that lives on after death. ect.

 

if you dont believe that souls exist, or you dont think that humans have a soul then the best thing to do here would be not vote right? i mean i make the question more specific it should probably be "do you believe animals are on the same spiritual level as humans" or "that humans and animals have the same type of soul/spirit, or have something that lives on after death"

 

btw im liking what im reading, i had never thought about this b4 me and my GF disagreed on it and i never realized there was another view on it other than my own, let alone several other views on it. nor did i ever think that anyone thought that humans themselves did not have a soul, id actually like to hear more about the reasons for that from those who dont think humans have a soul. if you guys dont mind posting about it in more detail.

 

and my GF thinks im crazy for being so interested in this now. i think she thinks im trying to prove her wrong or something, i just like having several ways of looking at things, but hey, thats probably just the actor in me coming out

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nor did i ever think that anyone thought that humans themselves did not have a soul, id actually like to hear more about the reasons for that from those who dont think humans have a soul. if you guys dont mind posting about it in more detail.

I'm an Agnostic-Humanist. I don't make any definite claims as to whether the soul does or does not exist, I don't see how i could, i have no proof one way or the other.

 

 

Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of God, gods, deities, ghosts or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently impossible to prove or disprove.
Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality.

 

If you'd like to read more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism_(life_stance)

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Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of God, gods, deities, ghosts or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently impossible to prove or disprove.

 

If I was able to give you my memorys , so you could see what ive seen I could prove to you that ghosts exist. Im not entirely certain what they are, be it a ''soul'' that has not moved on or perhaps just a memory that is so strong it has imprinted itself into existence but they do exist. And theyre not just famous people :devlish:

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Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of God, gods, deities, ghosts or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently impossible to prove or disprove.

 

If I was able to give you my memorys , so you could see what ive seen I could prove to you that ghosts exist. Im not entirely certain what they are, be it a ''soul'' that has not moved on or perhaps just a memory that is so strong it has imprinted itself into existence but they do exist. And theyre not just famous people :P

i have to agree, i personally have seen enough to believe in ghosts, what causes them might be another story but i i believe they exist.

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To answer that you have to define a soul. Thought is merely synaptic activity, if you didn't have a brain you wouldn't have a soul. So is the brain your soul? If so, then animals have souls, because they have brains. Would be easier to answer if you defined what you think a soul is.

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funny-pictures-basement-cat-eats-souls.jpg

 

I have no bloody idea what "a soul" is. Nevertheless, I believe animals do have feelings and therefore should be treated with equal (or better) respect like humans :P

 

Excluding puppies that is ...... :)

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I believe that every creature that has thought, personality and emotions must of necessity have a soul.

However, animals do not have spirits. IMO, the spriit is the key difference between man and animals.

 

Edit: Spellings

Edited by EaglePrince

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a soul is something you must beleive in first.. sorta like a religion(the beleiving part not the actual religion..)

 

like some people beleive in J.C but there is no hard proof he existed(yet about 1 billion christians) so it comes down to

do you beleive in a soul... you cant see it.. there is no proof of it

 

i still beleive that if humans have a "soul" then animals will too because we are the same as them but a more developed race. i think animals have emotions and thoughts.. possibly a personality but i wouldnt call this a soul..

 

so it comes down to if you beleive there is such thing as a soul etc etc.

Edited by Dremora

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like some people beleive in J.C but there is no hard proof he existed...
At the risk of going off-topic...

 

There's plenty of evidence that J.C. (as you put it) existed (more so that for most other ancient writers and philosophers who's existence you would never question). The real issue is: is he who he claimed to be, and did he do what he said he would do?

 

Coming back on-topic...

 

While I believe than animals do have feelings and emotions (not so sure about conscious thought), I don't think that animals have the ability to believe in something (like religious concepts that require a degree of faith) that they can't see or experience. It doesn't matter if you class that as part of a soul, or part of a spirit, I think it's something that humans have the ability to do that other animals don't.

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There's plenty of evidence that J.C. (as you put it) existed

 

Where? And your not allowed to use Josephus :) I'd really like to see this evidence because if you can provide it you will be one of the first people in the world to do so and for that you deserve to be St bkc56

 

(more so that for most other ancient writers and philosophers who's existence you would never question)

 

Who exactly ? Im concerned about this statement not because you are replying with faith, it usually doesnt take long for a debate about soul to turn into one about religion but really, id love to see the evidence your talking about.

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.. I'd really like to see this evidence because if you can provide it you will be one of the first people in the world to do so and for that you deserve to be St bkc56
If I was that level of a bible or history scholar I sure wouldn't be spending time playing EL or posting on these forums. :rolleyes: I haven't done the research myself, I'm just relaying the bottom-line from teachings I've heard over the years. Lots of facts and figures about written records, levels of independent verification, eyewitness accounts and their level of accuracy. Historical records. Yada, yada, yada.

 

I doubt I could prove natural selection to anyone either. But I remember enough from studying it in school (selective breeding to control flower colors, coloration of moths, predator/prey pressure on genetics, etc) to know it's real. A quick trip to a library would produce the books I'd need to refresh my memory.

 

If you're truly interested you can walk into most any bible bookstore and ask for books on these or related topics and get any number of good sources by experts who have done the years of research. Then instead of just claiming there's no proof, you can judge the evidence for yourself and make an informed decision.

 

But it's a big topic. Don't expect someone to spoon-feed us a couple paragraphs in a forum post to summarize hundreds or thousands of pages of discussion on the subject.

 

And that is way more off-topic from animals and souls than I wanted to ever go.

Edited by bkc56

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*recites a song*

You think the only people who are people...

 

 

etc etc etc :)

(colours of the wind)

Edited by cho-yun

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It is hard to stay out of a thread like this

 

Animals do not have souls

Humans are animals

__________________

 

Fill in the blanks

 

That said, things like faith, ideas, thought, language, eveloution, de-eveloution, sex, love, rock-and-or-roll ....all play a part in belief, superstion, knowldge,

 

The intresting thing about this all, is you are uncertain, dont start a forum poll on a on-line video game, go visit 10 religous leaders from 5-6 different faiths, go live in the forest for 20 years, sit next to a river, smoke drugs, explore these questions in every way you can.....and good luck to you. The awnser can only be found one way..And I doubt your convicted enough to explore that avenue

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.. I'd really like to see this evidence because if you can provide it you will be one of the first people in the world to do so and for that you deserve to be St bkc56
If I was that level of a bible or history scholar I sure wouldn't be spending time playing EL or posting on these forums. :closedeyes: I haven't done the research myself, I'm just relaying the bottom-line from teachings I've heard over the years. Lots of facts and figures about written records, levels of independent verification, eyewitness accounts and their level of accuracy. Historical records. Yada, yada, yada.

 

I doubt I could prove natural selection to anyone either. But I remember enough from studying it in school (selective breeding to control flower colors, coloration of moths, predator/prey pressure on genetics, etc) to know it's real. A quick trip to a library would produce the books I'd need to refresh my memory.

 

If you're truly interested you can walk into most any bible bookstore and ask for books on these or related topics and get any number of good sources by experts who have done the years of research. Then instead of just claiming there's no proof, you can judge the evidence for yourself and make an informed decision.

 

But it's a big topic. Don't expect someone to spoon-feed us a couple paragraphs in a forum post to summarize hundreds or thousands of pages of discussion on the subject.

 

And that is way more off-topic from animals and souls than I wanted to ever go.

 

while i agree with saying that there has been people who have spent 20+ years reserching about jesus, there is no physical proof, just because about 1 billion christians beleive in it doesnt mean its real

 

(seriously feeding 4000 people with a loaf of bread and 3 fish or something close) there are also alot of other researchers for different religions, doesnt mean there 20 yrs or more means anything

Edited by Dremora

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Animals do not have souls

Humans are animals

Fill in the blanks

Considering the defintion of the word soul, I think it is absurd to take the above two statements to their only logical conclusion.

 

Deduction suggests that you must therefore be wrong on at least one of those counts.

However, I humbly submit that you are sooo wrong on both.

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The intresting thing about this all, is you are uncertain, dont start a forum poll on a on-line video game, go visit 10 religous leaders from 5-6 different faiths, go live in the forest for 20 years, sit next to a river, smoke drugs, explore these questions in every way you can.....and good luck to you. The awnser can only be found one way..And I doubt your convicted enough to explore that avenue

 

by starting this poll i was not seeking the answer to this question, i am set in my answer and feel that i myself have enough proof to stick with it. i started this poll more to get an idea of what other people thought, until me and SweetEyes (my GF) got on this topic i had never thought that there were different views on the subject.

 

i am a big nature person, there is a forest close to my house that i am in all the time and i watch the animals. from my own observations i personally could not think that if humans have a soul that animals do not, alot of animals do alot of the things we do, they have thoughts, they feel pain, they talk to one another, they have families, so as i see it if they are so similiar to us on those aspects then why would we be the only creature on the planet that has a soul.

 

as for being convicted enough to search for the answer, your right, im not, i believe i already have the answer and even if i dont its not that important of a subject to spend all the time and money on it that your suggestions would need. all my goal out of posting this is to see other peoples opinions. and yes, im calling them opinions, even mine is an opinion as there is really no way to prove any of it.

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snip
snip

(seriously feeding 4000 people with a loaf of bread and 3 fish or something close) there are also alot of other researchers for different religions, doesnt mean there 20 yrs or more means anything

What bkc is saying is that the existence of the historical figure Jesus Christ is well established by historical records, just like the existence of the historical figure Isaac Newton is well established. He's not saying that certain "miracles" did actually happen or not and depending on who you ask, you will get responses ranging from they are real to they are only symbols...

 

Oh, somebody research what the Church of F S M thinks on the issue, thanks.

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What bkc is saying is that the existence of the historical figure Jesus Christ is well established by historical records, just like the existence of the historical figure Isaac Newton is well established. He's not saying that certain "miracles" did actually happen or not and depending on who you ask, you will get responses ranging from they are real to they are only symbols...
Thank you. That's correct.

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What bkc is saying is that the existence of the historical figure Jesus Christ is well established by historical records,

 

Where are these Historical Records? Who are you referring to exactly ? Please provide information to back this up ! Seriously guys if you are able to do this you both deserve to be made St's !! Id LOVE to see some of these historical records please. As to date, nobody on planet earth has been able to provide ONE account from anybody living at the same time as when the big J.C was supposed to.

 

Look sorry if this is all very off topic, but you cant just say black is white when its clearly not.......

 

EVery credit to you both for believing though, its good to believe in something. Personally , I like donuts , i know they exist and dont need to worry about them having a soul.

 

*quick edit but A MASSIVE QUESTION!!! * guys really, bck and erma, point us in the direction of these historical records that are well established

Edited by Ateh

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What bkc is saying is that the existence of the historical figure Jesus Christ is well established by historical records,

 

Where are these Historical Records? Who are you referring to exactly ? Please provide information to back this up ! Seriously guys if you are able to do this you both deserve to be made St's !! Id LOVE to see some of these historical records please. As to date, nobody on planet earth has been able to provide ONE account from anybody living at the same time as when the big J.C was supposed to.

Any real scientist doesn't say Jesus wasn't real person. There is more historical reconds about him than most of other historical persons. And yes bible is included in these historical records. There is so much different writers writing about him, that he mush have existed. Do u think all those people who wrote bible, just applied that there is mythical person named Jesus? It's different thing do u believe in his miracles or not, but there sure was person named Jesus.

 

Secondly there is some records about Jesus outside of Bible too. I just can't remember what they was.

 

Anyways I don't understand why people are crying "OMFG there sure wasn't person named Jesus etc. etc." Why is it so hard to believe, that maybe there is something true in bible? U think that if u believe Jesus was a real person, u have to believe that whole bible is true?

Edited by Miiks

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Where are these Historical Records? Who are you referring to exactly ? Please provide information to back this up !
I already answered this above. Scroll up and read what I suggested you do if you're really interested in more details. Asking the same question again won't get you a different answer, I still haven't done the research myself and rely on the work of others.

 

And I apologize to the original poster for these folks who keep dragging us off topic from critters and souls. :P

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epic post alert - typing while watching UFC lol

 

Where are these Historical Records? Who are you referring to exactly ? Please provide information to back this up !

 

still dont see any .......

 

I already answered this above. Scroll up and read what I suggested you do if you're really interested in more details.

 

I was already very interested in this subect and have spent years looking into this and other related subjects regarding philosophy/religion. I dont pretend to be any sort of expert lol far from it but I'm not one to blindly follow either ;)

 

Asking the same question again won't get you a different answer

 

Nope your right there because theres only one answer, its not possible to prove the existence of Jesus from the records we have at our disposal. Theres not one account by anybody who lived in the same time as him. Not one. And using the synoptic gospels isnt really historical data, nobody knows who wrote them, or when, or if they were copied from earlier writings, or if they all stem from one gospel ( as in, people have theorised that there is a source gospel called Q which upon all the other gospels take thier information, others have theorised that matthew , luke and john are all derivitive of gospel of mark, as mark contains the source information you find in the other gospels, interestingly mark doesnt mention a virgin birth )

 

I still haven't done the research myself and rely on the work of others.

 

to the most extent we all have to rely on the work of others with regards to something like this, but I think if you really want to look into something you have to look at it from all sides, as in read the theorys of those who say yes and those who say no. When it boils down to it i dont really want to try and tell anyone thier faith is wrong , because your not wrong, but then again nobodys right ! I think love is more important than facts and figures , but still ........

 

And I apologize to the original poster for these folks who keep dragging us off topic from critters and souls. ;)

 

Ya me to, I just wanted to express an opinion as you wanted to express yours. Ultimately, its of little consequence to anyone for as a wise man once said something like :

 

'' For those that believe no evidence is necessary, for those that do not believe no evidence will suffice ''

 

Love rules ! Divison of humanity over religion fails ............

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You took the blue pill and try to make yourself believe it was the red, I think ;)

 

The question of the existence of Jesus Christ is contrary to what your post seems to imply not one of religion at all.

 

You claim to be no expert, which is pretty obvious if I may say so, as a glance at the conclusions of the relevant research shows.

Anyways, maybe you like this one better: Jesus didn't exist but the CIA used their time machine to plant historical evidence but the international conspiracy of the Jews used their own time machine to prevent planting of evidence in Palestine. The CIA's motive was to create a justification for the USA's involvement in various wars and their foreign policy in general. They created "democracy" in ancient Greece for the same reason by the way. I won't supply any links to evidence as the CIA might find out people are realizing what's going on and your own "research" will yield the desired sources anyways :pickaxe:

 

I'll tell you more about it in a separate topic. ;)

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