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Cruella

The Chim Project

What do you think about that ?  

115 members have voted

  1. 1. Are chim changes a good idea?

    • Yes
      45
    • No
      57
    • No opinion
      13
  2. 2. Will you support "The Chim Project" ?

    • Yes
      26
    • No
      72
    • Need to think it over
      17


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2 trices in kusamura now... i never saw anyone training them and now for some people it's the end of the world that 2 trices are in kusa because they cant harvest their silver in peace. damn hypocrit shit, get real and stop crying about it like it's the end of EL. no1 wanted to move yetis from iscalrith either because there is a cave with iron ffs.

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My question is:

If the argument to do this is for "the good of the community", why isn't a project chosen that will benefit MOST of the community? Chim fighters make up a relatively small portion of EL, the majority cannot even fight them yet.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against "fixing" chim stats per se, but to do it under the guise of "for the good of the community" and then use that to insult and guilt others for not participating or agreeing is rather absurd.

I am part of this community, I can fight chims, but if I was going to pick a project to help the "good of the game and community" and wave a community banner over it, this would not be it. Nor do I feel that with this opinion I am antisocial and selfish.

 

The answer is simple - because it was the one and only proposal that had been brought to my attention and had clear, well defined goals.

 

I'm sure if one project succeeds, another can follow. And even now, others can be run in parallel other projects, if people wish to devote their time and resources to them.

 

I'm not waving any banner over this - until this was posted, there was invasion token anarchy, so this is just first attempt to make a better use of them.

 

If you have a better idea for such project, speak up in a separate post, if I find it worthy, I'll gladly support it.

 

One more thing - where have you found me to "use that to insult and guilt others for not participating or agreeing" ?????

 

 

2 trices in kusamura now... i never saw anyone training them and now for some people it's the end of the world that 2 trices are in kusa because they cant harvest their silver in peace. damn hypocrit shit, get real and stop crying about it like it's the end of EL. no1 wanted to move yetis from iscalrith either because there is a cave with iron ffs.

 

1. This is not a post about moving trices

 

2. If you've read with understanding you would realize that people did not like trices move to KJ not due to harvesting issues only, but for a number of other reasons

 

3. I would be grateful if you say something regarding the topic of this post

 

Thanks

Edited by Cruella

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I'm not waving any banner over this - until this was posted, there was invasion token anarchy, so this is just first attempt to make a better use of them.

I don't understand, where did it ever say that whoever was fortunate enough to get the tokens was supposed to make a vote?

I thought the purpose was for the person to redeem them how he saw fit. Next person could change it as HE/SHE saw fit.

 

Anyway back on chim topic, I voted no both times, again not because I don't want chim stats changed, but because I disagree with this whole bully procedure to guilt people into not spending their tokens as they want to.

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I don't understand what you are saying ....

 

This is up to people whether theyy want to participate or not. No one is forced or obliged, neither vote, nor support.

 

I'm proposing something, if people decide to help - fine.

 

If they decide go to Radu and spend their tokens for other purpose - fine, that's their choice.

 

As simple as that.

 

I disagree with this whole bully procedure to guilt people into not spending their tokens as they want to.

 

Again, show me where and how I force you to participate.

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Force? No.

Insult and pressure and guilt those who don't do it your way or see it as you do? Yes.

I just don't think you have the right to speak for the community as to what it wants or what is right for it.

As always, it's a very vocal minority speaking/shouting here.

I do not appreciate being called selfish or non-community minded because I don't support this concept (implicit based on what you have said to others who said the same thing).

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Voted NO to both.

Reasons:

1. I don't like any actions under the banner 'Help the community'. Usually they serve only the little part of the community.

2. Between all posted opinions I find Voice's one the most reliable. I just trust his common sense the most.

 

Considering the fact this change is suppose to help the community I am probably not only an Outlawer (not for the first time) but also Community Hater. Let it be.

 

 

<edit>

Sorry for editing my post. I wanted to make clear my reasons.

Edited by Eiri

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Edit - after Eiri's edit this paragraph was no longer making sense

 

Once again I clarify - the purpose of this is to accomplish a certain goal together with those willing to participate, with a use of invasion tokens. Not a big philosophy. No hard feelings if you do not support it. Peace.

Edited by Cruella

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Force? No.

Insult and pressure and guilt those who don't do it your way or see it as you do? Yes.

I just don't think you have the right to speak for the community as to what it wants or what is right for it.

As always, it's a very vocal minority speaking/shouting here.

I do not appreciate being called selfish or non-community minded because I don't support this concept (implicit based on what you have said to others who said the same thing).

 

Quote me.

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Im still in support of this idea, if it was such a bad idea then teh god would not have given a specific number of tokens needed and neither would the stats of the chims have been put on the table in the first place, by teh god himself.

 

Its a shame once again that somebody attempts to help in these forums and instead of discussing possibilities in a decent way , people begin proclaiming themselves community haters, call names and accuse the person trying to help of not knowing what the community wants.

 

I will tell you what the community wants :hehe: It wants a big stick to beat itself over the head with, it wants flame wars, it wants you to know its been playing longer than you, it wants you to bow down and lick the boots of non existent consensus.

 

The community wants a good , long , hard and sweaty session of complaining because thier skill is the hardest. The community is made up of all of us obviously, but you wouldnt bloody know it from reading these forums.

 

So the change will benefit some chim trainers ? Good , it will also benefit the triccle down market on HE SRS and armors, as more and more items are consumed.

 

If it doesnt affect your game , then why the hell do you automatically want to vote no ? Or is this another community rule that so far i have been unaware of?

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Hm, after speaking to another reliable, high level fighter.. seems that Korrode's proposed changes are more geared towards his stats. I don't know much about stats for monsters since I don't train a/d... but perhaps we should get a second opinion on this before committing?

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Feel free to change them, make them less strong, this just makes me able to train them on PK server easier, and in peace.

 

:hehe:

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Hm, after speaking to another reliable, high level fighter.. seems that Korrode's proposed changes are more geared towards his stats. I don't know much about stats for monsters since I don't train a/d... but perhaps we should get a second opinion on this before committing?

 

O rly? I am around his stats and just aswell resetted, I voted no, twice. Does that count for the second opinion? I don't feel like we need them stats lowered just for the few around his/my a/d that might make use of it.

 

I think with current stats they provide at least a little challenge and it should stay that way.

 

-Gohan

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Wow :hehe: Many of you are complaining way too much and making this much more difficult than it needs to be.

 

If you agree with Cruella's proposition, then vote yes! If you do not agree, vote no, and try to post why you disagree and hopefully also what changes you WOULD propose. :icon13:

 

I honestly do not feel that:

Cruella is putting ANYONE down if they don't agree! She is open minded enough, by far, to understand that everyone has their own thoughts on this subject.

 

I honestly do not feel that:

Cruella is not doing this for the community. YES it would be awesome if we changed stats/spawn time/locations of lower level creatures that more players train on (more fluffs!) so that more players can train...but that had not been a main idea for the use of invasion tokens until now. Korrode's ideas about the changes regarding various chims have been around for awhile :P All she is doing is trying to help; if you want something else changed with tokens...go make another thread and propose your idea! Stop bringing others down!

 

<Aislinn>

I just don't think you have the right to speak for the community as to what it wants or what is right for it.

Fine. Do you see anyone else doing this, Aislinn? I don't. Also, who the FUCK has the right, then? Not *no one*..........*everyone* does because we are ALL part of the EL community.

 

Anyway back on chim topic, I voted no both times, again not because I don't want chim stats changed, but because I disagree with this whole bully procedure to guilt people into not spending their tokens as they want to

Who's being the bully, Aislinn?

</Aislinn>

 

Back on topic:

If so many players are disagreeing with the chim changes...what other changes do you feel would help the 'community'? (If, of course, you have the 'right' to speak for the community). What changes could we make for the better of the community regarding creature changes? More fluffs? Stat changes for other creatures that more players train on?

 

 

Over time I've learned that EL has many many negative, rather rude people. I don't however, feel that it is "EL"...it is the fact that since players are behind a screen, and are semi hidden and have less severe repercussions for their actions and attitudes. I honestly feel that everyone should try to take a breath, relax, and realize that being negative, rude, and downright mean doesn't get you half as far in life as being open and rather giving.

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Quote me.

You are going to have to read your own posts in the invasion tokens thread. I'm not allowed enough quotes in my post to cover them all.

 

@Ateh: I said before and I guess I have to say it again...I am NOT against chim stats being changed IF that is beneficial to trainers. I AM against being told that if I don't support voting on how I (or anyone else) spend my tokens, I am anti community and antisocial and a selfish jerk. I am against having somebody speak for me (as in "the community wants"...I am part of this community and I do not necessarily want). I do not believe that any one person in this thread knows what is best for this game or what the entire community wants. If somebody wants to start a thread in hopes of getting people to participate to get enough tokens and get a common decision on how to spend those tokens, great!!! (Although what do you do if after all that work somebody turns around and undoes it?) That is not what my complaint is about, which if anybody had actually READ my posts, they would see that. It's not the what, it's the how.

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Ok had a think about the pro's and con's of the proposed changes before voting, spoken to a few players both for and against the idea.

And while I would love the spawn times of chims reduced a bit.

Im not 100% sure that:

 

A ) fchim/mchim toughness and armour needs reducing to dchim levels (imo that would be way to low,making them to easy)

B ) Its whats best for the game

C ) Anyone really knows what they are talking about

 

So I voted no

 

Personally I think changes such as this should only be made by Radu for game balance reasons, and not by us players trying to make things easier for ourselves

Edited by conavar

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Here is the challenge, in my view, and as I have spoken at length with Asgnny, I think he will echo it for the a/d trainers higher than my level as well.

 

As you increase in a/d, the amount of experience to gain levels increases, but at a certain point in your progression, your ability to increase your hourly training experience begins to decrease. For instance, my next a/d level are far less total experience to achieve than are Asgnny's; however, I can make more experience per hour than can Asgnny. This leads to demotivation for higher level a/d trainers to continue their training--maybe this is Radu's intent, I'm not sure.

 

The request is to adjust some attributes of some of the creatures above dc's so that they make some sense in the a/d training progression, which they currently do not. I am not in favor of a roll-over, massive experience boost change, but am in favor of adjustments that would increase the ability of higher a/d level players to continue their progression in a reasonable manner.

 

I think Korrode's suggestions would be a nice first step. If you haven't reviewed his suggestions and analysis, it might be helpful for you to do so in making an informed decision. http://s1.zetaboards.com/Unofficial_EL_Forums/topic/290404/

 

I don't believe that Korrode's suggestions are self-serving to people of only his stats. They make sense for anyone in the natural training progression as they run out of reasonable monsters to train. This leads to hundreds of people on guild maps pvp'ing, using fewer resources in general because it is the only reasonable solution to the current problem. This does not add to the economy in as meaningful a way as training monsters typically does.

 

For all the lower and mid level trainers out there, look forward and know that you will need a solution to this problem in the not too distant future.

 

I have 5 invasion tokens to help, I would propose to spend some on this challenge and save some to address the challenges associated with higher a/d training challenges.

Edited by Ozmondius

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Quote me.

You are going to have to read your own posts in the invasion tokens thread. I'm not allowed enough quotes in my post to cover them all.

 

I'm not that demanding, quote just some or even one my post where I put a pressure on anyone to support or to participate in this project.

 

Anyway, I have clearly defined my position and intentions above. I have made a proposal that you and others can either support or ignore, or be against. You have full freedom of decision. I don't blame you that you do not like this project (or my posts, or whatever), I'm fully aware that no matter what anyone proposes, it will not please everyone. Does it mean we should do nothing?

 

Also, if you believe that invasion token owners should spend them individually, that's great, spend them as you wish. Respect however that others might think otherwise and they are willing to try to make an effort to put them into use together, for a good (in their subjective opinion) cause.

 

Note that although I'm the one who posts about that, neither chim changes nor how to accomplish them ideas are mine. So instead of focusing on me and judging me for something you *think* I said, look at big picture.

 

If somebody wants to start a thread in hopes of getting people to participate to get enough tokens and get a common decision on how to spend those tokens, great!!!

That would be great but as experience shows there would be 100 posts with 200 proposals precluding each other. I'm trying to be practical - it is much better to propose a single change, see if it finds enough supporters. If yes - accomplish it, if not - suggest something else. The change proposed in this topic have been discussed several times and I understood that a/d crowd supports it. Once again, I'm not an author and I will not benefit from it if it is introduced (apart from having a satisfaction that tokens have been used more effective than in the WV/KJ cockas move ping-pong).

Edited by Cruella

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duh this is getting silly...

 

 

 

I don't understand anyway why people don't want to change FC stats if it doesn't affect them anyway.

 

 

-_-'

 

 

~TK.

Edited by Michic0_oL

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Let me try again.

I support everybody's right to use their tokens as they wish. I have no problem with Mango moving them to kusa, I have no problem with whoever moving them back. I have no problem with you starting a thread stating your (korrode's) suggestion and asking for donations to accomplish this.

 

I do not support you labeling that under "community good" and "what's best for the community" and "the community wants". I do not support people telling others who spend their tokens privately that they are selfish and antisocial and anti-community.

 

You are well within your rights to solicit support for your idea, but call it what it is. A small group who wishes for a change that benefits them or their friends. That is fine! Nobody will condemn that any more than the one person who spent them alone.

 

I absolutely respect your right to do this and I respect Mango's right to do what he did. Just don't attack people who don't see it your way. You demand others respect other points of view but I do not see you doing so yourself.

I believe there is a lot of people who would pay a fortune just to piss others off, I call them maybe not 'intellectually challenged' but 'not community oriented' for a lack of better acceptable term.
IMO, for whatever reason it has been done, it is not beneficial for majority of players and EL as a whole. Comparing potential benefits it gives to one or few individuals to real consequences for all those who were using KJ on regular basis so far doesn't impress me. That's why I was asking how to revert that, got my answer, kkthxbb
I play the game as I wish and no one will be telling me what I should do and what I should train. Not everyone has to be a/d addict. Get a life. My a/d has nothing to do with that and cockas are not a problem for me at all. A problem is a selfish individual that spoiled KJ for others, seeing only the end of own nose. And as always, the number of fucks used in your posts do not make them any smarter.
You are really that "Antisocial" or you just roleplay ? laugh.gif

etc etc etc

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Can we get back to the substance of the post and stop nitpicking each other's posts, please?

 

Why? Because my Dad can beat up your Dad.

Edited by Ozmondius

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You said I force people to vote and to support this project and to participate, which is still not true and none of your quotes supports your statement. These are two different cases. These quotes were all posted before this topic has been even started. They are related to something entirely different. These have nothing to do with the chim project, yet you judge the project value by that. I'll gladly explain you the difference in pm since this is getting out of topic and steers this post away from its goal. If for any reason you would like to discuss it in public, let's do that in a thread where all those quotes belong. If you want to put an end to this pointless discussion, I'm fine with that as well.

 

Finally, I had no idea how many people will support this (and I still do not have) and I have never stated it is being done for the "whole community". On the first page I have said "The Chim Project is devoted to make a rational use of the invasion tokens for the benefit of the EL community" because an author of chim changes proposal believes it is a case. I'm not doing that for my friends group, small or large, because actually none of my closest EL friends posted here or is vitally interested. And I'm not attacking anyone who is not supporting this project - end of the story I guess, no need to explain while I'm not a camel more than already done.

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well so far as you can see, the votes say people would like to see it done, but not the same amount of people will help LOL I love EL.

 

but anyway, it would be nice to hear from some more high level fighters what they think about the chims changes?

 

also, would it be possible for someone to translate korrodes suggestions into laymans terms, a quick and easy to understand version, seeing as he is away atm, thanks. I think it might help for people to get a better grasp for what he is suggesting.

 

*edit* I still apreciate cruella's attempt to try and bring together some people of EL to work for one common goal with regards to invasion tokens. It might not have been the original idea behind them, but as far as I can see it makes more sense if people put thier heads together and think things through

Edited by Ateh

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I second that. We also need someone with chims knowledge to calculate cost of each change in tokens, as well as to enlighten us which change should have priority. I'm afraid the cost is very high judging from "prices" Radu posted, so we need to spend tokens wise.

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i train fcw/mcw with no probs killed over 35k fcw and 18k mcw

 

can't see y u need to change them

 

 

edit: btw i voted no both ways

Edited by BaDFliP

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hey , after speaking to someone in game this idea came up :

 

would it be possible to use these tokens gathered to do something that REALLY would benefit a large group of players ?

 

Using the tokens to create an NCP that will redeem the tokens for special days ? NDD's , Sun Tzu , Joules Day and so on ?

 

This way, we will know that the tokens used will not go to waste, as there is every chance that even after all this debate the forest chimerans stats are changed somebody else will use tokens to change them back, such as the case with the cocks.

 

I just think its time we got past the negative stuff and instead of jumping other people because you dont like the idea, bringing to the table alternatives that can be discussed and decided upon, whilst still keeping the sentiment of a group of EL players using these invasion tokens to bring about changes into the game that are worthwhile.

 

Hows that sound ?

 

*edit* changed my underwear after the post to suit the moment better

Edited by Ateh

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