Cooldown On Summoning Stones

[korrode]

That's old. It isn't valid.

How?

 

Not to mention it appears to be his own personal interpretation of it

Isn't anything anyone says only their "own personal interpretation of it"?

 

so one can choose to rely on that quote as factual or not. I choose not.

Well, at least i've presented mine and Tempest's numbers... you haven't even presented yours for white tiger stones... and you say i'm not complying to the rules of debate (although if you were to, i realise you would just quote market prices for every ingred and it would work out slightly dearer than NPC buy price, but market prices is not what any smart summoner is paying for their ingreds... i know this 1st hand, so i dont care to debate it).

 

In short; i choose to not to rely on yours or your sources interpretation as fact.

 

So, no point in any continued debate, surely you'll agree...?

 

Besides, Radu is more likely to leave something than change something, so you most likely have nothing to worry about, no matter how "right" or "wrong" either of us are.

[Ermabwed]

@Erma: I choose not to agree

Bit off topic: your ethnicity can get you enemies without you ever having to do anything but being born, sad but true.

 

and another off topic: forum clock is fast again.

 

PS: guys, why don't you get back to something constructive here (and I don't even have the nexus for stones yet )

[Aphistolas]

How?

 

Well, it doesn't accurately account for gypsum prices, for start.

It assumes the summoner has already reached level 60.

It assumes the summoner doesn't fail any stones.

It also has a second party you very conveniently ignored (the part that laughs about how summoners can get rich by making a ~2gc profit), which isn't even valid now with the fluctuation of prices.

 

Isn't anything anyone says only their "own personal interpretation of it"?

 

Yes, unless the provide sources (see: evidence) to back up what they say.

 

Well, at least i've presented mine and Tempest's numbers... you haven't even presented yours for white tiger stones... and you say i'm not complying to the rules of debate (although if you were to, i realise you would just quote market prices for every ingred and it would work out slightly dearer than NPC buy price, but market prices is not what any smart summoner is paying for their ingreds... i know this 1st hand, so i dont care to debate it).

 

Uh, yes, I have, actually. Moreover my numbers were correct and yours were not. "but market prices is not what any smart summoner is paying for their ingreds" is another example of a fallacy. The cost of the ingredients is 500gc more expensive than what the NPC pays or what the buy price is. Is that fair and just statement? No.

 

In short; i choose to not to rely on yours or your sources interpretation as fact.

 

False, you cannot turn my own argument against me because to me, it has no bearing. I can quantify everything I have said here with general census of opinions (widely regarded as true when no factual evidence can be truly obtained). Whereas you base your argument on things a few other people have said, who may not have the right information in the first place.

 

So, no point in any continued debate, surely you'll agree...?

 

Concession?

 

Besides, Radu is more likely to leave something than change something, so you most likely have nothing to worry about, no matter how "right" or "wrong" either of us are.

 

"There are no rights or wrongs; only lesser evils."

 

 

@Erma: I choose not to agree

Bit off topic: your ethnicity can get you enemies without you ever having to do anything but being born, sad but true.

 

and another off topic: forum clock is fast again.

 

PS: guys, why don't you get back to something constructive here (and I don't even have the nexus for stones yet )

 

offtopic banter:

 

at the time of speech, he was pretty much correct. Britain was practically entirely white. I choose not to add in a qualifier because it detracts from the general profoundness of it

[korrode]

Firstly, @ your whole post.

 

Secondly:

So, no point in any continued debate, surely you'll agree...?

 

Concession?

Boredom.

 

If you cant figure out how to level summoning from level ~30 onwards and break even, that's your problem... i can figure out how... but i don't quite care enough about this whole thing to divert from a/d training and spend pp/hydro on Animal nexus to prove it.

Edited September 5, 2008 by Korrode

[Aphistolas]

*snip post*

Boredom.

 

Great, that's a concession. My argument prevails.

[Ateh]

love the way that this topic went completely off in the wrong direction.

 

First of all ;

 

Manu skill has absolutely no stackable items whatsoever to run and sell, you have to pay for increasingly pricey ingredients , make a few 100 s2e for hydro ore, walk to the hydro ore through Pk maps, then mix all that shit together and risk loosing it or loosing a saving stone ( 25k on top ) , please , dont compare the manu skill to summoning skill, its not even in the same league in terms of difficulty OR loss of gc on the final product.

 

Regardless of how you pay for the cost of a summon stone, or if you make money from making it one things still remains :

 

summoning stones are a shit part of PK.

 

they might be great for summoners to level thier skill , hell of alot quicker than walking to WS summoning arena 15 million times to summon some skeletons.

 

but whatver the case may be for summoners leveling thier skill , for PK i hear it all the time that summon stones bite the big one.

 

It would be a shame to keep them in the game as they are now, i think making them non stackable is a bloody great idea, and would return Pk to a situation once again based on skill, and not how many summon stones you and your guildys can click on.

 

*edit* its not up to me but if there was ever a vote on it id say remove the summon stones completey from the game

Edited September 5, 2008 by Ateh

[bkc56]

It would be a shame to keep them in the game as they are now, i think making them non stackable is a bloody great idea, and would return Pk to a situation once again based on skill, and not how many summon stones you and your guildys can click on.

Or the same solution used on the PK server could be put on the main server: using a summoning stones has a 75% failure rate (stone lost, no critter created). That sure "fixed" them over there.

[Wizzy]

love the way that this topic went completely off in the wrong direction.

 

First of all ;

 

Manu skill has absolutely no stackable items whatsoever to run and sell, you have to pay for increasingly pricey ingredients , make a few 100 s2e for hydro ore, walk to the hydro ore through Pk maps, then mix all that shit together and risk loosing it or loosing a saving stone ( 25k on top ) , please , dont compare the manu skill to summoning skill, its not even in the same league in terms of difficulty OR loss of gc on the final product.

 

Regardless of how you pay for the cost of a summon stone, or if you make money from making it one things still remains :

 

summoning stones are a shit part of PK.

 

they might be great for summoners to level thier skill , hell of alot quicker than walking to WS summoning arena 15 million times to summon some skeletons.

 

but whatver the case may be for summoners leveling thier skill , for PK i hear it all the time that summon stones bite the big one.

 

It would be a shame to keep them in the game as they are now, i think making them non stackable is a bloody great idea, and would return Pk to a situation once again based on skill, and not how many summon stones you and your guildys can click on.

 

*edit* its not up to me but if there was ever a vote on it id say remove the summon stones completey from the game

Fox scarves stack!

 

I do think the summon stones should still exist, as a "pure" summoner can not summon while engaged in combat, he can mix stones and use them up to giant, perhaps someday dragon. For this reason alone I think the cooldown on them should be increased a little bit. Currently it is a little to short in my opinion

[Aphistolas]

It would be a shame to keep them in the game as they are now, i think making them non stackable is a bloody great idea, and would return Pk to a situation once again based on skill, and not how many summon stones you and your guildys can click on.

 

First post much?

 

@bkc: That would totally annihilate their market. The PK server is different as the highest summoning level would be like, what, 40? Compared to a server where 40 would be rank #74.

[Talixim]

love the way that this topic went completely off in the wrong direction.

 

Yeah that's a little annoying

[Ateh]

Or the same solution used on the PK server could be put on the main server: using a summoning stones has a 75% failure rate (stone lost, no critter created). That sure "fixed" them over there.

 

thats great idea to bkc , and who cares if it would slow the market down on them ? if people are so desperate to use them as a means to win a PK battle then they will still have to use them wont they

 

otherwise, theyd have to rely not on the stones to win the fights for them

[ohmygod]

The idea behind the post was to give the stones a higher cooldown when used in pk.

 

The cost of making stone, whether it should be stackable or what the price of eggs are in china was not the point.

 

Talli asked me about what i thought about summon stones and the cooldown on them. I know that summoning in PK even if you have a decent summon lvl is not possible while in combat. e.g once your attacked you cant "old style summon".

 

Stones now give people the ability to summon even while in combat.

 

I suggested to tali that maybe the cooldown on stones should be lbased on someones summon lvl.

eg: Less for those that actually do have some summon skill and more for those that dont. I think instinct and Vitality makes your summon stronger, why not give advantages to a summoner so thier summon lvl plays a part in the use of stones too.

 

Lvl 30 summon allows the control of summons/summon stones why not take this further?

[Ambrosius]

Made a poll about it once.

About 75% of ppl who voted was for changing the cooldown on summoning stones in some form.

 

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...c=35058&hl=

Edited September 6, 2008 by Ambrosius

[Michic0_oL]

I still don't get it why people are whining about cooldown on summoning stones. Just summon as much or twice the zoo in their fucking face

 

Or if you don't want, just diss tele, or leave the freaking map. Each time they summon they lose gc anyway, so, in the end, you're the one to win

 

Because you didn't waste 3k gc in this fight. Play smart \o/

 

Come on people, ADAPT to the game, don't ask the game to adapt to YOU. otherwise, make your own game and stop bitching each time there is an "unfair" thing.

 

 

~TK.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Michic0_oL

[Nahtepa]

I agree w/ TK... but for the whole "dis/tele or leave map" part... when u got a zoo on your ass, that's a bit rough to do ^^ unless it's only 1 person summoning, then not bad

[Ambrosius]

People complain because they want to PK as in Player Kill and not SK as in Summon Kill

Dissing people and fleeing a map or summon even more doesnt help PK, it makes it worse + it makes it needlesly more expensive.

 

Added cooldown will bring more strategy as you will actually have to think when to use a summon (ie to catch a diss or flee, to distract your enemy for a second, etc.).

[Michic0_oL]

People complain because they want to PK as in Player Kill and not SK as in Summon Kill

Dissing people and fleeing a map or summon even more doesnt help PK, it makes it worse + it makes it needlesly more expensive.

 

Added cooldown will bring more strategy as you will actually have to think when to use a summon (ie to catch a diss or flee, to distract your enemy for a second, etc.).

my strategy is, let them waste their gc, while you train, they have to make gc to pay for their noob stones ^^

anyway, the more you summon tigers and bears on me, the happier i am, it is free mana.

 

Only time i use a summon anyway is to catch a diss, prevent someone catching my diss on non multi map, or to md it (cheaper emp + xp :]). Summon doesn't help pk imo, just a waste of gc ^^

 

and anyway, i have tinf so, def penalty by summons doesn't work on me (also one reason why i took tinf, not only to "dcw def noob train" kk

Edited September 6, 2008 by Michic0_oL

[Kaddy]

Its easy to run from around 30 summons and 8 players on you, just fight against some GODZ and you will increase your skills

 

-Kaddy

[Raz]

I have avoided commenting on this - as I don't PK.

 

However, as to making gc from stones... if you buy all ings at market price, you break even on NPC sell price if you mix in the mine. (When you mix them by the thousand (102k and rising), ch3 cannot take the volume!)

 

What needs to be taken into account - is that unlike many skills - you cannot buy all ingredients on ch3, or mix in store. As for making a huge profit - not easily - unless you mine your own gyp / kill wtf. As has been stated, to get to a lvl where you can start to make a profit - will cost you 250k or more.

 

As for mixing any stones over Tiger - current market prices make them all cheaper to buy from npc.

[korrode]

@Aphistolas

 

 

(couldn't help myself )

[Tempest]

If you cant figure out how to level summoning from level ~30 onwards and break even, that's your problem... i can figure out how... but i don't quite care enough about this whole thing to divert from a/d training and spend pp/hydro on Animal nexus to prove it.

bullshit. theory & practically it's totally different. you calculate the ingredents like 4gc for LE, 14gc for srs etc etc.

i thought the same as u as i started summoning... lvl 40 costed me ~1.8m gc and even at lvl 50 i made a loss, at lvl 53 i complained because i lost 4/10 spiders, and i also lost 3/10 bears which are no profit at all, not to talk about tigers which were a pain in the ass.

 

20 le, 100gc

4 srs, 56gc

1 wtf, 80gc

20 gypsum, 60gc (hyperbag)

296gc + feasting = 302gc (no fails calced) + 4 fails if your lucky out of 10 (lvl 53).

profit? fuck your calcs, even with 1 crit fail you'r making a loss already.

 

oh well, the first kind of profit i got was on mid 50's with spider stones, tigers with 60 and up even though the gc sucks.

 

 

 

now back on topic: summon stones suck, but if people wanna use them it's their decision not mine. i'll take MD exp wherever i can.

[korrode]

the only "calcs" i presented in this thread were related to tiger stones.

no shit u cant make profit if u consider market prices for all ingreds on bears and what not, but i never said i'd use market prices as a basis for leveling from 30 onwards.

 

anyways, yeah.

[conavar]

Instead of trying to fook up the summon skill by making stone unstackable, use the suggested cooldown idea.

 

Give all stones a basic cooldown of 100 seconds and reduce there cooldown by 1 or 2 seconds per summoning level down to a set lower limit of say 20 seconds.

 

If players dont want to level there summoning to decrease cooldown then they will have to use the stones tactically, instead of mass zoo spam

[Mango]

Instead of trying to fook up the summon skill by making stone unstackable, use the suggested cooldown idea.

 

Give all stones a basic cooldown of 100 seconds and reduce there cooldown by 1 or 2 seconds per summoning level down to a set lower limit of say 20 seconds.

 

If players dont want to level there summoning to decrease cooldown then they will have to use the stones tactically, instead of mass zoo spam

Like this idea. It's a pretty advantage to those who level summoning, but not a burden on those who don't.

 

Even the numders make good sense to me.

[Bash_it_YeTi]

Interesting Idea but i think the cooldown on stones are just enought (not 2 much not to less)