Community restrictions on sales-bots,

[bkc56]

The topic of what sort of limits or restrictions we want on sales bots (if the vote approves them) has come up a couple of times. It's been suggested a thread be started to discuss it. Reviewing the discussions I've found a few things mentioned. I figure we should list and discuss and if the consensus isn't obvious we can do some sort of multiple-choice poll.

 

I should add that I'm not suggesting all these rules, I'm just trying to summarize what's been posted or talked about.

 

In no particular order:

 

* One sales bot per person.

 

* One sales bot per guild.

 

* Only active PK server players may have a sales bot.

 

* One (or some limit) sales bot per city/safe-area.

 

* Limited @3 advertising (longer than the default limit) for sales bots.

 

* No @3 advertising at all for sales bots.

 

 

Note that Entropy already enforces the following (although I'm not sure what his distance limit is):

 

* No sales bot may be "to close" to storage.

 

* No sales bot may be "to close" to docks.

 

For reference, Canned is where he is in VotD because Entropy wouldn't let him be any closer to storage. And from a discussion on main many months ago, bots can no longer be even within sight of docks (any bots who are were grandfathered in those locations).

 

 

Some of the above are easy to enforce, some would be very hard. Let's keep the suggestions reasonable, and don't make up new ones just to have them. We probably only need just 2-4 community restrictions to keep things from getting out of control.

Edited September 2, 2008 by bkc56

[Tauren]

What I find reasonable:

• Any active player in the server may advertise their bot(s) sales in the market
  
• An item/gc/service trade can only be advertised every 30 minutes for each bot
  
• Advertisements of any type by a bot are only to be allowed on @3
  

Edited August 25, 2008 by Tauren

[handyman]

Personal I think limit to 1 Bot per guild would be more interesting

 

(This would mean if the guild your were in already had a Bot you would have to leave and start your own guild. More guilds = more fun on Pk server.)

 

Also agree with only active Players should be allowed to have Bots

 

(This would save certain people from main server setting up a Pk server Bot and using it to buy main gc)

 

Dont think you can put any limit on how many in which area because there are not that many safe places to put them

(and first come first serve won't really work. If so Then I requested a Bot In VOTD back in May like I was told to do by Admin I posted its location In the Bots thread which I started.

 

This is what really made me mad about all this I did things the right way a didn't get any where Bkc Sent Radu a personal Pm telling him we all wanted Bots and got one

 

Im Happy to remove @3 advertising all together as this was the main gripe on the main server but just my opinion

 

The reason for no bots at docks? (was that to stop people gathering there )

 

Handyman

[bigshock28]

Very simple. 1 bot per every ten people a guild has (including alts). That way if a supplier guild grows to 20+ people they can have 2 bots to export their goods. This can be abused by someone buying or making characters to have 10 in their guild, but if someone wants it that bad i say let them have it. Also this makes it so a 1-2 person guild can't get a bot, which i really don't see a problem with since usually one person can easily sell their goods to players or other people's bots. Even though there isn't even 50 people on the server, i believe that a guild that grows to that many should be limited at 5. There is also a limited amount of safe areas a bot can be placed on this server, so i think there should be a bot limit for this server at 10, at least until the population grows to 100+.

 

On the advertising note, i don't think any bot advertising is needed. If the bot is put in an area like VotD, people will see it anyway, and bot owners can always advertise their own bots.

 

That's my 2 cents.

[Tauren]

On the advertising note, i don't think any bot advertising is needed. If the bot is put in an area like VotD, people will see it anyway, and bot owners can always advertise their own bots.

What if the owner has added a new stock of items to its bot? Yes the players know the bot is there, but probably wouldn't bother trying an /bot inv because they've already seen that it doesn't sell anything they want. Advertising is not a nuisance, if those few bot messages in @3 really annoy you, just ignore them...

[bkc56]

Advertising is not a nuisance, if those few bot messages in @3 really annoy you, just ignore them...

And the big problem on main is the number and frequency. We won't have 100 sales bots posting several time per hour. If the time limit is like an hour (or two), it will be a pretty light load on @3. Most people play for more than an hour at a time, so if they're watching @3 they'll see the ad. And they don't need to see it very many times per day to know what sort of stuff a bot has.

[Tauren]

Most people play for more than an hour at a time, so if they're watching @3 they'll see the ad. And they don't need to see it very many times per day to know what sort of stuff a bot has.

Agreed, once per hour per bot is reasonable.

Reminder for the bot owners: The idea is not to spam @3 as this will cause players to start ignoring bots, deeming your ads worthless. As trade bots begin to flourish and chat becomes more unbearable, be considerate, lower the time between ad posts.

[Piggy]

It will probably be a good while before we see a crowd of sales bots on PK. I don't see a problem with ads on #3, particularly now that we can #ignore the bots. I just have one alt monitoring #3 anyway.

 

Early on while PK was still being invented, there was talk about sales bots with limits as to what they would be able to sell. For instance no weapons, tools and harvestables only, no modable or enriched items, no stones, etc. I just wanted to bring that up, but I'm not smart enough to decide what difference such options would make...

 

For the few players we now have, I would think a limit of one bot per continent per guild (or non-guild player) should be enough for now. An example would be: Piggy has Razorback bot in Idaloran and Wilbur bot in WSC, his alts cannot have their own (don't know how to enforce that, though.) Meanwhile, W@LF guild has BigBad W@LF in Irsis and Howlin W@LF in Portland.

 

Too many bots per guild would be used as mutual storages for alts and guildies making it too easy to safely deposit items that could be lost in battle! With this in mind, maybe it would be best to have the bots ONLY close to storages and ONLY in safe areas. This last point might have more effect on the server than all others since the more bots a player/guild has, the easier it will be for them to hide and organize collected goods.

 

For me, sales bots are great to have in general. There's no hunting for buyers/sellers and no haggling over prices. Tauren made a good point that works for me too, here:

Trade bots supply me with small amounts of essies that is crucial for beginners like myself.

Normal players don't usually bother for small amounts, but bots don't discriminate against load sizes

[Chosen]

I think...

• 1 Bot per Guild.
  
• 1 Bot per Player not in a Guild.
  
• Bots can sell whatever.
  
• Bots must sell to everyone.
  

#Edit - I'd say Bots close to storage wouldn't be bad, not going to make a whole lot of difference because we can Multi anyways. It will just act as a Guild Storage Bot, as well as a Trade Bot.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Liquid

[bkc56]

#Edit - I'd say Bots close to storage wouldn't be bad, not going to make a whole lot of difference because we can Multi anyways. It will just act as a Guild Storage Bot, as well as a Trade Bot.

You'll have to talk to Entropy about that as he enforces his own restrictions on bot placement and proximity to storage or docks. Those are his rules, not potential community rules.

[Aphistolas]

• 1 Bot per Guild.
  
• 1 Bot per Player not in a Guild.
  
• Bots can sell whatever.
  
• Bots must sell to everyone.
  

 

Agree.

I guess this is only fair, but it would be abusable easily surely; simply buy an alt, put your bot on that, trade money to your alt and straight to main.

Limits would be nice, though I don't see how or why they should be imposed other than my view that player-player trade should be maximised.

Lol, not a snowball's chance in hell

[mrfancypants]

I guess this is only fair, but it would be abusable easily surely; simply buy an alt, put your bot on that, trade money to your alt and straight to main.

 

i don't think anyone would do that tho. one reason is, people that play on this server, that will pay $120 for a bot, has no use for main server gc.

just saying

[kit_gw]

For the few players we now have, I would think a limit of one bot per continent per guild (or non-guild player) should be enough for now. An example would be: Piggy has Razorback bot in Idaloran and Wilbur bot in WSC, his alts cannot have their own (don't know how to enforce that, though.) Meanwhile, W@LF guild has BigBad W@LF in Irsis and Howlin W@LF in Portland.

 

I agree with Piggy there Awesome idea

[mrfancypants]

all of these suggestions are great, but how are we going to inforce this? is radu going to go by what comunity rules are? or pocket the $120 and not?

 

Personally, i think if someone wants to spend $120 for a bot, they can do it as many times as they want. I doubt anyone cept handy or bkc will get a bot anyway, so the limitation on the number of bots shouldnt really be a problem.

[bkc56]

I doubt anyone cept handy or bkc will get a bot anyway, so the limitation on the number of bots shouldnt really be a problem.

As I said in the original discussion, I'm not sure our little community will support bots. I'm sure not going to get more than one.

 

I don't think bots on the PK server are going to make the owners much gc. I see it more as a way to keep the goods moving between people (who aren't logged in at the same time) with a slight pricing preference for the guild that owns the bot. Instead of sales bots, we might call them brokerage bots.

[Entropy]

Dont think you can put any limit on how many in which area because there are not that many safe places to put them

(and first come first serve won't really work. If so Then I requested a Bot In VOTD back in May like I was told to do by Admin I posted its location In the Bots thread which I started.

 

On the main server, bots are not allowed in certain places because there is too much traffic, causing lag for people. However, on the PK server there are few players so there are no such issues.

[mrfancypants]

I don't think bots on the PK server are going to make the owners much gc. I see it more as a way to keep the goods moving between people (who aren't logged in at the same time) with a slight pricing preference for the guild that owns the bot. Instead of sales bots, we might call them brokerage bots.

 

Exactly, i know that being a supplier in SPAM, we dont make anything, except the experience, and the gc is really only what it would take to not be lazy and do yourself. Thats the thing about Canned (only bot on the server so far) we are making nothing really, just a way for people to buy/sell items convienietaly, which is great for different time zones. I think that maybe a feature should be added, since it is really a community bot right now, where someone could give an item to canned, and have that item be reserved for another person, solving the problem of time zones. idk if it would work, but would be convienient.

[handyman]

i don't think bots on the PK server are going to make the owners much gc. I see it more as a way to keep the goods moving between people (who aren't logged in at the same time) with a slight pricing preference for the guild that owns the bot. Instead of sales bots, we might call them brokerage bots.

After reading through this thread and passing on my views

I just thought i would post here say what sort of Bot I would Put on the Pk server and why?

 

If I do put a Trade Bot on to the PK server and It would be in VOTD

 

I want to have it as low profit making as I can ( what I mean is everything It buys will sale for 1gc more i.e. Health ess buy for 6gc and sell for 7gc

 

I am looking for something that can help the community, old players and new alike

 

So if you want to sell something you make you can at a fair price, also the same with if you need to buy stuff you can at a fair price (enemy guilds might be 2gc profit got to keep it interesting )

 

 

 

How will I make gc

 

Apart from my 1gc profit system I will be supplying it with C1/C2 /Diss rings some armour/weapons higher end potions that I will make with loader and any other Items requested also rosto's as there is always a shortage in game

 

It might take a few weeks before I'm able to sort out a Bot But It will be coming soon (If the vote go's the right way)

 

When I'm ready I will start a new thread getting everyone's Idea's of what to sell at what prices all with 1gc profit. Trying to keep the Bot as close to market as I can.

 

I want it to be just like an Npc (shop) just at market prices.

 

As its to early in the game for a Bot to make much gc I would be happy for it just to keep the market stable

 

How would having a Bot help me (if im not that bothered about making loads of gc from it)

 

I would sell higher end stuff that I(or my guild) make

 

Also use the Bot to by things I (or my guildies)want in game

 

 

Handyman Thor

 

The Idea of having Bots in Pk area's would be a scream Pking and looting them I personaly would spend all day doing it. we would also get more Rangers on the Server.

 

But Bot owners would give up supplying them and they would end up trading in Hell

 

So imo would never work

 

If server was busyier and guilds had players on all the time you could edit the Bot to #gm when under attack so guild members could come to the rescue also give it a self defence program so it uses what it has on it to protect its self (ie it would heal its self or use up a giant stone lol)

 

But i think this would take to much effort to program or to implemnet

Edited August 27, 2008 by handyman

[Torg]

If server was busyier and guilds had players on all the time you could edit the Bot to #gm when under attack so guild members could come to the rescue also give it a self defence program so it uses what it has on it to protect its self (ie it would heal its self or use up a giant stone lol)

 

But i think this would take to much effort to program or to implemnet

It wouldn't be too hard. That's exactly what a guard bot does. It would just be a case of programming the bot with both guard bot and trade bot functions.

 

 

/edit: Thinking about this, it could actually be kinda good for generating more PK fights and guild wars even without loads of people on the server. Of course, it would be reliant on a community rule to not attack a guild's bot if there is no-one from that guild online to defend it, but if you wanted to start a war with another guild, check if there are players (at least 1) from that guild online and then attack the bot raising a call to arms, and you have a war. :-D

Edited August 27, 2008 by Torg

[bkc56]

So if you want to sell something you make you can at a fair price, also the same with if you need to buy stuff you can at a fair price (enemy guilds might be 2gc profit got to keep it interesting )

The Spam bot is already setup to do just that. We've done the math on various items to figure out a "base value" (if you will). For example a Life Essence is one silver and two sunflowers. We assume silver@2 and flowers@1, so the bot buys from everyone @4gc (which is a profit to them). It buys from and sells to Spam members @5, and sells to everyone @6.

 

Based on supply/demand and how much Spam can supply itself, some things will be a bit higher than this (Health Essence is an example). Over time, the numbers will be fine-tuned to try and keep the bot supplied AND keep things selling (active). Those deltas will also be larger (more than 1gc) for more expensive items, but we figure the bulk of the activity will be in essence and potions.

 

The point is, everyone can make a profit, Spam members can make a bit more profit, and the bot gets a 10%/1gc brokerage fee. That would seem to be both fair to people and helpful to the economy.

[Segor]

The Spam bot is already setup to do just that. We've done the math on various items to figure out a "base value" (if you will). For example a Life Essence is one silver and two sunflowers. We assume silver@2 and flowers@1, so the bot buys from everyone @4gc (which is a profit to them). It buys from and sells to Spam members @5, and sells to everyone @6.

Hope to see that working soon, last time I saw the bot advertising on @3 prices were a "bit" different.

[bkc56]

Hope to see that working soon, last time I saw the bot advertising on @3 prices were a "bit" different.

I'm not sure what you mean by "different", but perhaps the following paragraph from that post explains:

 

Based on supply/demand and how much Spam can supply itself, some things will be a bit higher than this (Health Essence is an example). Over time, the numbers will be fine-tuned to try and keep the bot supplied AND keep things selling (active).

 

Note the underlined parts.

[Segor]

Yeah you are so right, Bots are "maester" in supply&demand that's why I love them and why I wanted them to stay on the main server.

 

The context that made me answer before was this. Hope you can understand why I replied, as you know better than anyone else the prices set on the bot.

 

So if you want to sell something you make you can at a fair price, also the same with if you need to buy stuff you can at a fair price (enemy guilds might be 2gc profit got to keep it interesting )

The Spam bot is already setup to do just that.

[Chosen]

Surprised you make any GC with prices that high. You also need to think that people have chars which can make stuff for themselfs, and they are way to high for beginners. So I don't know who your trying to get your bot to sell too.

 

Shame I don't have my 600k on main anymore (Sold char+sto.) otherwise I would buy a Bot and under-cut all your prices by about 2gc per Item.

 

Only thing worth buying is CoL for 90k, which only saves 10k.

 

(I'm not including the JS into this cost either.)

 

#Edit - And with Multi being allowed, and no cooldown, these prices are stupid. 8gc for a HE? Try 5-6.

Edited August 28, 2008 by Liquid

[bkc56]

#Edit - And with Multi being allowed, and no cooldown, these prices are stupid. 8gc for a HE? Try 5-6.

That's kind of funny as HEs are the best seller. As to other stuff, if it doesn't sell then supply/demand will start pushing the prices down. It's always easier to slowly drop prices to trigger sales than it is to raise prices to slow sales down. People appreciate the former, and react badly to the latter.

 

But as usual, the tread repeatedly wanders aimlessly off-topic.