Be your own pet

[Moebird]

Will shape-shifting require any new or additional nexuses?

[Entropy]

Will shape-shifting require any new or additional nexuses?

Yes, probably animal nexus.

[Infamous]

"omfg, ruin the game pk dead already omfg quit the game economy dead".

 

lol

 

seems like a great idea to tbh, just dont tell people the stats / ability's of creatures you shapeshift in, for some variaty in pk, not that you have 50 people as leopards running around.

Edited August 17, 2008 by Hardcore

[kissofdeath]

sounds like perfect idea

[Usl]

Excellent idea in general terms, and of course the details will have to be worked out, so take your time for testing - much better to put shapeshifting in game "when it is ready" than having too much fine-tuning later on.

 

Timing. 2 mins + bonus might be a little shorter for more strategic uses of the skill; I would rather go with the special food idea -- with the catch that the special food should be non-stackable, so carrying around substantial amounts of that food would incur a penalty. Something mixed with beehive maybe (very energetic!), or maybe some other food harvestable with high Inorganic nexus - 7 or more -, to make it valuable.

 

Nexus requirements. I am not sure about the animal nexus for using the tokens: that would make the skill too much "summoner-centric"; encouraging shapeshifting users to become summoners themselves (once you invest a few PPs in Animal nexus, you can as well develop Summoning), so in the end the best producers and consumers of shapeshifting tokens would coincide, which would not encourage trade and interaction.

I would rather try to separate the two groups to encourage collaboration: either by not requiring a special nexus (after all, summoning stones can be used by anybody), or by requiring a different nexus: e.g., magic (because there is some magic involved) or human (because you need a strong connection to your human side to maintain your consciousness while in animal form). Yes, I am aware that those new uses would be different from the traditional meaning associated with those nexuses, but I think the economic separation of producers and consumers to be important enough to warrant an extension of their meaning.

 

Creatures. I am not particularly worried about the exact details of the creatures you will be able to shapeshift into: as long as there is a certain variety, players will learn to use those that are more suited to a specific task. Having some unique creature would be pretty nice; I believe the mule is there already.

 

Death and risk. The consequences of death in shapeshifted state, and under which conditions you can be attacked by others, are important points though: if I shapeshift into a rabbit, can I be attacked by all those that would be able to attack a rabbit? (I'm tempted to answer "yes", that would mix some element of risk into the idea and also blend some PK-server kind action in the main server). And, what if I die? Just returning to your standard form seems too little of a penalty to me.

 

Levelling. It is not clear to me how one should level the skill. Just by buying or making tokens, and then repeatedly shapeshifting into some creature and back to human/etc. form (exp awarded on token use)? Or by spending much time into shapeshifted form (exp awarded every minute while in shapeshifted form)? Or maybe, a fraction of the exp awarded to the shapeshifted creature, in any of their skill, would go to the shapeshifter's shapeshifting skill (wow, that's a mouthfull)? The latter seems a good compromise, as you will gain shapeshifting exp only if you use effectively the shapeshifted form, not by just "doing it" for the sake of exp itself.

 

Overall. Can't wait for it to be in game!

[Kalix]

I saw this comming becuase you were wandering around as hobs dragons and such

Kool i cant wait to shape shift

You missed when Mortos what a Giant 2x size spider then. There has been support for this in the client for a looong time. It's just been a case of how exactly did Ent want to make it available.

 

I heard that mortos turned into a giant spider to lead invasions, I normally fight the weakest part of the invasion or just hide though.

 

I didnt start to think that shape shifting was comming though until I saw radu as a yoda (hob)

[Entropy]

Timing. 2 mins + bonus might be a little shorter for more strategic uses of the skill; I would rather go with the special food idea -- with the catch that the special food should be non-stackable, so carrying around substantial amounts of that food would incur a penalty. Something mixed with beehive maybe (very energetic!), or maybe some other food harvestable with high Inorganic nexus - 7 or more -, to make it valuable.

Again, the time is meaningless until the cost of the tokens is determined. It's either high price, long time, or small price, short time. Or perhaps something in between.

 

 

I am not sure about the animal nexus for using the tokens: that would make the skill too much "summoner-centric"; encouraging shapeshifting users to become summoners themselves (once you invest a few PPs in Animal nexus, you can as well develop Summoning), so in the end the best producers and consumers of shapeshifting tokens would coincide, which would not encourage trade and interaction.

I would rather try to separate the two groups to encourage collaboration: either by not requiring a special nexus (after all, summoning stones can be used by anybody), or by requiring a different nexus: e.g., magic (because there is some magic involved) or human (because you need a strong connection to your human side to maintain your consciousness while in animal form). Yes, I am aware that those new uses would be different from the traditional meaning associated with those nexuses, but I think the economic separation of producers and consumers to be important enough to warrant an extension of their meaning.

All other nexuses (besides for human) are usable in more than one skill. The animal nexus is pretty much only usable in summoning. The human nexus is used for PKing (and farming, pro leveling, etc.). I do not want to give the fighters another free bonus. Instead, if they want to be pro shapeshifters, they will have to get some animal nexus. But with hydro bars nexus it's not so hard, especially after the cap.

 

 

Creatures. I am not particularly worried about the exact details of the creatures you will be able to shapeshift into: as long as there is a certain variety, players will learn to use those that are more suited to a specific task. Having some unique creature would be pretty nice; I believe the mule is there already.

We have plenty of new creatures that were designed as pets, and now will be used for this purpose. There will be around 10-20 creatures to shapeshift in.

 

Death and risk. The consequences of death in shapeshifted state, and under which conditions you can be attacked by others, are important points though: if I shapeshift into a rabbit, can I be attacked by all those that would be able to attack a rabbit? (I'm tempted to answer "yes", that would mix some element of risk into the idea and also blend some PK-server kind action in the main server). And, what if I die? Just returning to your standard form seems too little of a penalty to me.

No, the PKing will only be done in PKing areas, regardless of the shape.

 

Levelling. It is not clear to me how one should level the skill. Just by buying or making tokens, and then repeatedly shapeshifting into some creature and back to human/etc. form (exp awarded on token use)? Or by spending much time into shapeshifted form (exp awarded every minute while in shapeshifted form)? Or maybe, a fraction of the exp awarded to the shapeshifted creature, in any of their skill, would go to the shapeshifter's shapeshifting skill (wow, that's a mouthfull)? The latter seems a good compromise, as you will gain shapeshifting exp only if you use effectively the shapeshifted form, not by just "doing it" for the sake of exp itself.

I don't know how exactly this will be done, it remains to be seen.

[patraig]

May I suggest the possibility of giving people the ability to prolong the 'morphing time of others (guildies only?), perhaps as a magic spell. I suggest this mainly because I have this image of a high-level polymorpher as a dragon going head-to-head with another dragon, accompanied by a bunch of mages, half of which are frantically healing and the other half of which are frantically keeping up the transformation.

 

(Hmm; while I'm thinking about it, perhaps Smite Summoned could also work on 'morphed people -- in PK areas and by dragons only, of course.)

[skodarap]

sounds like an excellent idea, and i really cant see the downside to it...

 

*keeps fingers crossed for ability to turn into frog*

[Rehdon]

I like the idea of a shapeshifting skill and, while exactly how it will be implemented rests to be seen, it sounds very nice already.

 

But the big downside is that pets won't be there, which is a pity IMHO. Having a sort of "companion"/helper for different skills (mule for harvesters, war beast for fighters, totem animal for summoners, magic animal for mages etc., lots of ideas come to mind) was a very interesting concept that I hope will be resurrected later on.

 

Rehdon

[smalul]

All other nexuses (besides for human) are usable in more than one skill. The animal nexus is pretty much only usable in summoning. The human nexus is used for PKing (and farming, pro leveling, etc.). I do not want to give the fighters another free bonus. Instead, if they want to be pro shapeshifters, they will have to get some animal nexus. But with hydro bars nexus it's not so hard, especially after the cap.

I have an idea - how about making a class-specific creatures? I know that officially there are no classes in this game, but in fact there are, so why not have a few creatures for each class, limiting the range of selection by the nexuses you have:

 

animal nexus - the higher the nexus, the more time you can stay in the polymorphed state.

inorganic nexus - the higher the nexus, the better the EMU of the creature you can turn into, or it allow you to turn to a better creature of this type (mule class).

magic nexus - allow for better magic creatures.

vegetal nexus - the higher the nexus, the less food the creature would require.

artificial nexus - not sure about this, but maybe it should be used to allow creatures' specific items.

human nexus - the higher the nexus, the faster your character would want to return to human form, so it's basically the opposite of the animal nexus. I know this seems like an anti high level players idea, but I don't think anyone would want to see uber creatures (maybe even dragons) running around all day long, killing all the normal creatures in the game.

To balance this, maybe the time you can stay in the polymorphed state would be longer in PK areas (20-50% more than in normal maps).

 

Just an idea.

[HeLLRaiZeR]

The idea sounds fun.

 

I would suggest however that to use stone x you have to be y level, much like magic works.

 

Does this shapeshifting really need its own seperate skill though? I think it's kind of connected

to summoning, and how would you traing shapeshifting up? This could really add to the usefulness of summoning, since it's by now one of the most underused skills.

[Entropy]

Well, another option is not to have a shapeshifting skill, just make it so that each creature has it's own skill, so for example you can level your mule 'pet' to level 20, totally independent of leveling your dragon.

[Scorpius]

Well, another option is not to have a shapeshifting skill, just make it so that each creature has it's own skill, so for example you can level your mule 'pet' to level 20, totally independent of leveling your dragon.

 

i like that thought alot better, but anyways im happy with both ^^ no matter what comes i will start with it ^^

[Ayreus]

Well, another option is not to have a shapeshifting skill, just make it so that each creature has it's own skill, so for example you can level your mule 'pet' to level 20, totally independent of leveling your dragon.

 

I like this suggestion. Also, if it could be possible, as there will be so many skills, make it possible in the options to choose which skills to display in the HUD.

 

As for timing for the mule for example, I would suggest that you stay as mule until you open the trade window or open your storage (revert back to original state after unloading what you are carrying). I also like the idea of making the time based on a formula (like restore is). However, I think making it more simplistic would be the way to go (ends when open trade window or unload stuff into storage). So with each trip you would have to shapshift again - which is probably your intention here.

 

As far as levels... like you suggested above, make it per animal/monster and add bonuses as you level them. For example, an increasing EMU with the mule as your level increases.

 

Overall this is an excellent idea that you've come up with Entropy, excellent potential. Allowing people to specialize on a specific creature will broaden the scope of the game. I like it a lot.

 

Edit: Another idea to throw out there, I would suggest you implement a downside to shapeshifting. For example, have animals and creatures auto attack the mule... for example in DP if you were hauling coal, you would be attacked by rats and snakes... and a bear if you were unlucky. This would add some strategy to it, and some risk.

Edited August 18, 2008 by Ayreus

[Isenwolf]

Well, another option is not to have a shapeshifting skill, just make it so that each creature has it's own skill, so for example you can level your mule 'pet' to level 20, totally independent of leveling your dragon.

I believe this is the better route. Then each person that shapeshifts will not have each creature leveled totally, so not every shapeshifter is the same, each having their own specific creatures.

 

(Not sure if that last sentence makes sense )

Edited August 18, 2008 by Isenwolf

[Light Lan]

maybe a general shapeshifting skill, which determines fail/successrate on token usage, and then a skill for each creature you shift into determining bonuses and penalties.

 

I like that idea

[Acelon]

I like the idea of the shapeshifting skill better. I can see too many pets crowding storages as a BIG problem.

[Nola]

I like the idea of the shapeshifting skill better. I can see too many pets crowding storages as a BIG problem.

 

 

I agree here........I think just like with anything else........as you level your skill the more higher up things that you can do......Maybe as your shape shifting skill gets higher the longer you can stay in your state you shifted too.........just an idea but the food idea is also good

[Troger]

I like the idea of the shapeshifting skill better. I can see too many pets crowding storages as a BIG problem.

 

 

I agree here........I think just like with anything else........as you level your skill the more higher up things that you can do......Maybe as your shape shifting skill gets higher the longer you can stay in your state you shifted too.........just an idea but the food idea is also good

I think Ent wanted to tell us that we wont have shapshifting skill only the tokens and if u use one you will turn into a mule for example and you can train your mule alter-ego up to lvl 20. Correct me if i am wrong.

[jajohn]

I don't like the idea of one type of nexus needed,because this would a little help the ones who already have it(do a skill which need it),so I think it would be better to not need nexus,or to need another nexuses for another creatures.

 

Troger: yes I think that too

[affreckles]

i have always wanted to be dragon

[WolfWitch]

Sorry for the delay in reply, I been thinking this over and doing a little witchy research *oh the shock**faint*

 

I love this idea, shamanic *drools*. I also love the idea of limiting the exp one can get depending on the animal morphed into, makes them all useful and stops the mass morphing of one type.

 

Can I suggest though that as well as/instead of the special food needed to maintain shape, some sort of potion is used, maybe one that uses some of the furs not already in use. And before you all jump on the "you just want more potions exp" bandwagon, I am NOT a potioner, I am looking at this from a shamanic view.

 

It would also mean that not only summoners get exp for fueling the skill, more teamwork....well we can hope anyway

[Grawius]

Well I have some sort of idea.

but i dont even know if this thing is possible to do

 

So how about to create these tokens

 

and create this tokens as trainable items to some level (i toke this idea from final fantasy 7 - materias)

 

each level u can stay longer as a pet and got more benefits of being transformed

 

players can train these tokens to master it.

 

another idea is that tokens can use mana per second/minute

 

 

just one small idea dont attack me :>

 

regards.

 

Graw.

[Zenial]

It is one exp bar for each creature, correct? So the success rate of using a token is assisted by the creature's level for that specific token? Or will there be an overall shapeshifting level for main character for token's success rate, than creatures done completely separately?

 

EDIT: also secondly - For example: If a mule's duty is purely to carry, how do it gain exp? And increase in mule level will increase emu and drop a/d penalty at a set rate?

Edited August 29, 2008 by Zenial