An idea about vials

[Anamir]

First of all i hope u dont misunderstand what ill say. I dont usually come to forum ask for things beeing easier or so. But i had an idea that I think would help 2 skills in their development.

I think the manufacture of Vials artent even close to profitable. The Moldings r expensives and its not rare they breaks.

The idea is to keep the formula of the vials but makes it to produce 2 vials instead one .. i think this is @least fair since it uses 3 ingreds (2 quarttz and 1 FE).

Low level harvesters could sell their harvested quartz for like 1.5gc. Crafters would buy it and make 2 vials: Costs 3gc from quartz 3.5gc from FE total 6.5gc for 2 vials. Each vial:3.25 the crafters could sell it for 4.5gc and earn 1.25gc and some experience in craft. The profit could cover some mold breackage and potioners would have vials from players that is more interest than NPC (IMO).

 

Well just an idea .. plz post your comments about.

 

[]'s Anamir

[DogBreath]

Actually, there's quite a bit of profit/exp to made making vials. My numbers clearly show profits even based on breakages and if you turn them into potions, the profit is even greater.

[AitorTillas]

Actually, there's quite a bit of profit/exp to made making vials. My numbers clearly show profits even based on breakages and if you turn them into potions, the profit is even greater.

 

 

I think is a great idea what Anamir propouses.

Considering the ingradients from the beggining to make a vial u need: (the prices are the chippest i ever seen, not the normal ones)

 

1 sulphur (1,5)

1 red snapdragon (0.4)

1 red rose (0.4)

2 quartz (1.5)

 

Considering that the price of a made vial is 5,3gc and that u need a vial mold, i can't see the profit of making then instead of buying them.

[Cycloonx]

There is no profit to gain from making vials. They are pr0 for crafting exp though and pretty easy to mix. I think it's fine as it is.

[Cyprom]

There is no profit to gain from making vials. They are pr0 for crafting exp though and pretty easy to mix. I think it's fine as it is.

I agree here, the crafting exp is enormous. You can level crafting with ease on vials. And if you indeed make potions with them, you can still get a profit (maybe a bit less) from the combo.

[TirunCollimdus]

Entropy has specifically stated on numerous occasions that vials are meant to be a trade of gold coin for experience. A very good trade. If you are a high enough potioner then you can make vials profitable by selling the potions in the vials you made. It would be great if vials made a profit but it would unbalance the game as it would be too easy just like when vials didn't disappear.

 

Tirun

 

PS If you are lucky enough you can make a profit.

Edited July 16, 2008 by TirunCollimdus

[Nintenduh]

Screw profit. I make them for personal use.

 

The hardest part is getting an EFE for the mold. It's a pain in the ass.

[DogBreath]

Actually, there's quite a bit of profit/exp to made making vials. My numbers clearly show profits even based on breakages and if you turn them into potions, the profit is even greater.

 

 

I think is a great idea what Anamir propouses.

Considering the ingradients from the beggining to make a vial u need: (the prices are the chippest i ever seen, not the normal ones)

 

1 sulphur (1,5)

1 red snapdragon (0.4)

1 red rose (0.4)

2 quartz (1.5)

 

Considering that the price of a made vial is 5,3gc and that u need a vial mold, i can't see the profit of making then instead of buying them.

Although I don't agree with your 'retail' pricing method (wholesale is much more true for sellers...) Even at 5.3, I sell for 5.5. Have made well over 20k vials per 9 molds, that's 12k per mold on average (give or take...) No way they cost that much... I guess that's at least 5k profit per mold and massive exp...

 

EDIT: yes, EFE's are a different story, no wonder they cost 7k average per mold

Edited July 16, 2008 by DogBreath

[Maslicka]

Actually, there's quite a bit of profit/exp to made making vials. My numbers clearly show profits even based on breakages and if you turn them into potions, the profit is even greater.

 

 

I think is a great idea what Anamir propouses.

Considering the ingradients from the beggining to make a vial u need: (the prices are the chippest i ever seen, not the normal ones)

 

1 sulphur (1,5)

1 red snapdragon (0.4)

1 red rose (0.4)

2 quartz (1.5)

 

Considering that the price of a made vial is 5,3gc and that u need a vial mold, i can't see the profit of making then instead of buying them.

Although I don't agree with your 'retail' pricing method (wholesale is much more true for sellers...) Even at 5.3, I sell for 5.5. Have made well over 20k vials per 9 molds, that's 12k per mold on average (give or take...) No way they cost that much... I guess that's at least 5k profit per mold and massive exp...

 

EDIT: yes, EFE's are a different story, no wonder they cost 7k average per mold

Hail to your math skills.

Anyway I think its fine as it is,if you are smart and lucky,then you can profit,if not,you always get tons of crafting exp.

[DogBreath]

Actually, there's quite a bit of profit/exp to made making vials. My numbers clearly show profits even based on breakages and if you turn them into potions, the profit is even greater.

 

 

I think is a great idea what Anamir propouses.

Considering the ingradients from the beggining to make a vial u need: (the prices are the chippest i ever seen, not the normal ones)

 

1 sulphur (1,5)

1 red snapdragon (0.4)

1 red rose (0.4)

2 quartz (1.5)

 

Considering that the price of a made vial is 5,3gc and that u need a vial mold, i can't see the profit of making then instead of buying them.

Although I don't agree with your 'retail' pricing method (wholesale is much more true for sellers...) Even at 5.3, I sell for 5.5. Have made well over 20k vials per 9 molds, that's 12k per mold on average (give or take...) No way they cost that much... I guess that's at least 5k profit per mold and massive exp...

 

EDIT: yes, EFE's are a different story, no wonder they cost 7k average per mold

Hail to your math skills.

Anyway I think its fine as it is,if you are smart and lucky,then you can profit,if not,you always get tons of crafting exp.

hrm 20000/9 = 2222vials (give or take) * 5.5gc =..... ~ 12kgc... no? Luck really has little to do with it. As I pointed out in a previous post, maybe people are just overlooking something And yes, hail the crafting exp

Edited July 17, 2008 by DogBreath

[molime]

But I still don't agree with your profit . With ingredients cost 5.3 (and that IS low, market value of ingredients would be more ~7.5gc) and selling for 5.5 each, the profit you made on each vial is only 0.2gc. 20k vials at 0.2gc profit is suddenly only 4kgc. With 9 molds. You said "No way they cost that much"?

 

"Profit" (only counting the ingredients for the vials) per mold then 444gc. Which with the cost of the mold makes it about 6-6.5k loss per mold, not your 5k profit per mold. That's about 2.5gc loss per vial, and for me that's not enough for the exp I get (because I like doing it I still make some every now and then when the last breaks were a while ago and I forgot the pain ). Calculating the actual market value of the ingredients makes it even a lot worse.

 

And no, of course I don't go by the idea 'it's all profit cause you can harvest everything for free'.

[DogBreath]

But I still don't agree with your profit . With ingredients cost 5.3 (and that IS low, market value of ingredients would be more ~7.5gc) and selling for 5.5 each, the profit you made on each vial is only 0.2gc. 20k vials at 0.2gc profit is suddenly only 4kgc. With 9 molds. You said "No way they cost that much"?

 

"Profit" (only counting the ingredients for the vials) per mold then 444gc. Which with the cost of the mold makes it about 6-6.5k loss per mold, not your 5k profit per mold. That's about 2.5gc loss per vial, and for me that's not enough for the exp I get (because I like doing it I still make some every now and then when the last breaks were a while ago and I forgot the pain ). Calculating the actual market value of the ingredients makes it even a lot worse.

 

And no, of course I don't go by the idea 'it's all profit cause you can harvest everything for free'.

Maybe I'm fooling myself and I'm not getting paid for the vials at all, only the harvesting and time I put into mixing... All I know is after I'm done, I end up with more coins than when I started and can afford to replace the broken molds (and the aforementioned phat exp.) I can live with that

Edited July 18, 2008 by DogBreath

[Cycloonx]

But I still don't agree with your profit . With ingredients cost 5.3 (and that IS low, market value of ingredients would be more ~7.5gc) and selling for 5.5 each, the profit you made on each vial is only 0.2gc. 20k vials at 0.2gc profit is suddenly only 4kgc. With 9 molds. You said "No way they cost that much"?

 

"Profit" (only counting the ingredients for the vials) per mold then 444gc. Which with the cost of the mold makes it about 6-6.5k loss per mold, not your 5k profit per mold. That's about 2.5gc loss per vial, and for me that's not enough for the exp I get (because I like doing it I still make some every now and then when the last breaks were a while ago and I forgot the pain ). Calculating the actual market value of the ingredients makes it even a lot worse.

 

And no, of course I don't go by the idea 'it's all profit cause you can harvest everything for free'.

Maybe I'm fooling myself and I'm not getting paid for the vials at all, only the harvesting and time I put into mixing... All I know is after I'm done, I end up with more coins than when I started and can afford to replace the broken molds (and the aforementioned phat exp.) I can live with that

 

If you would have sold all raw materials you would end up with more gold coins than after selling your finished goods that asked even more time to make. Considering the gc/time ratio for finished goods, it will be much lower than the raw materials gc/time ratio.

[Mar(c)]

You're forgetting the exp part of the profit.

[Cycloonx]

You're forgetting the exp part of the profit.

 

I was only talking about the profit. As stated before, vials are a nice way to get crafting exp, but they are not a good way to make profit.

[Pyewacket]

You're forgetting the exp part of the profit.

 

I was only talking about the profit. As stated before, vials are a nice way to get crafting exp, but they are not a good way to make profit.

 

The gc/time margin is always better on selling ingredients than end products though, or at least in the majority of ingame items

[bigshock28]

Yeah i like this idea. I was sitting in portland storage one day and i broke 2 in 20 minutes. I had only ever made less then 1k vials and this completely pissed me off. Thankfully spirited gave me his to keep and enough quartz and fire essences to finish the day out. (it was half food day)

[Tempest]

You're forgetting the exp part of the profit.

why do you guys always use that "oh, you get exp thats profit too" ?

i mean ok.. the exp brings you to higher lvls, but the stuff you can make on higher lvls just gives you more loss than the ones you can make on lower levels. so the more "profit from exp" you get the more loss you have in the end.

[Mar(c)]

why do you guys always use that "oh, you get exp thats profit too" ?

i mean ok.. the exp brings you to higher lvls, but the stuff you can make on higher lvls just gives you more loss than the ones you can make on lower levels. so the more "profit from exp" you get the more loss you have in the end.

Exactly, best would be to stay on blue lupines all your EL carreer, since exp means nothing indeed.

 

Oh, [/sarcasm]

[Pyewacket]

why do you guys always use that "oh, you get exp thats profit too" ?

i mean ok.. the exp brings you to higher lvls, but the stuff you can make on higher lvls just gives you more loss than the ones you can make on lower levels. so the more "profit from exp" you get the more loss you have in the end.

Whilst a level 70 crafter would indeed suffer greater loss on mixing cols (which are up at that level for reasonable chances of success), the crafter would still benefit greatly from mixing vials instead. I realise fighters would never drop to something far below their levels in order to minimise stock losses/usage in this manner (like tooms going back to ogres for instance) but other skill types do benefit more from working on something far beneath their levels if they wish to benefit from minimum losses/fails.

 

Doing 5k vials is still worthwhile for exp, whether you are a level 20's crafter or a level 70's crafter. And yes, I see the exp from 5k vials as a BIG incentive to make them, regardless of however many efe I have to throw into vial molds to do so. And since I dont do potions, my guildmates get the finished vials, so the exp is the only direct incentive in my case.

[Elgoran]

why do you guys always use that "oh, you get exp thats profit too" ?

i mean ok.. the exp brings you to higher lvls, but the stuff you can make on higher lvls just gives you more loss than the ones you can make on lower levels. so the more "profit from exp" you get the more loss you have in the end.

 

Well, judging from the replies i got in another thread where i criticised this, you and i have greatly misunderstood the spirit of making stuff in EL.

It's like what they call "generation 'period of practical training'" here. Mixing means working hard for a great loss so you'll be able to make more stuff even faster for an even greater loss.

The goal of this game is, let's take manufacturing as example, to be able to loose 1 million goldcoins in less than half an hour by equipping everyone with greatswords. As reward, you'll get your name printed in the top50 list, but that's not all. If you're lucky enough, the PKers who you sold your swords to will eventually be nice enough to stab you with exactly those swords the next time you try to mine the ores neccessary for making them. Then the amount of money you wasted will be higher than everyone else's. Then you are the true champion of this game.

If you and me can't see the noble-mindedness and true virtue of this goal, maybe we should play something else.

Which is just the option i'm considering at the moment.

 

Yours sincerely, Elgoran.

Edited July 30, 2008 by Elgoran

[TheMadToker]

People need to stop whining about how you can only make things at a loss and actually stop and learn how to play the game and play the market. For starters, I sell my vials at 7gc easily, secondly I also make my own vial molds and my own EFEs. On average I can get 2k+ vials on a mold, which happens more often then not. Really, the only money I'm out when one breaks is what I happened to pay for an enrichment stone, and making vials is mind numbingly easy. Lets not even talk about the great crafting XP, or the fact you can turn those vials into potions for an even greater profit. Not very good at potions? Well why are you even making vials in the first place?

 

Cant make vial molds or EFEs on your own? then make something else to make money. Every single skill has at least several items you can sell at a profit. I train all my skills regularly and I have never been strapped for cash. Ever. Sure, maybe some of those those weapons your selling at a slight loss, but if you were smart you made your own metal bars. So make extra then what you use, bars sell at a profit.

 

Point is, I think everything is a-ok hunky dorey as it is. What the hell were we even talking about anyway? ::checks OP:: Oh yeah, no, 2 vials at once would be too much. If your buying vial molds, dont expect to make a profit, you should be making them. And if your settling for selling your vials at 5gc its your own fault.

 

Sure luck has its own factor, yeah, that mold could break after 2 vials, but i had some last for 10k+ vials ::sniff:: smells like profit to me.

Edited July 31, 2008 by TheMadToker

[humanalien]

just harvest al the ingredients by your self and youl got no gc loss just some time, but if you make your FE you could get an EFE so it not really a money wasting thing. then you get triple exp: harvesting alchemie and crafting.

 

its like real life: work hard to get money, the money will not walk to you at an easy way

[ProHibited]

Why do people still make all those items... I guess its 'worth' making them.