Make only every 5th PK death use rosto

[korrode]

I suggest keeping track of player deaths to other players and making only every 5th PK death use a rosto, with a command to check remaining PK deaths till rosto will be needed to die and keep items.

 

The effect will be that rostos last for 5 PK fights.

 

EDIT: Could a mod please change the thread title to read "Make only every 5th PK death use rosto".

 

@Spleen

ya, edited :>

Edited July 3, 2008 by Korrode

[Sayre]

Well, the suggestion was for PK only. A rostogol stone in PK would survive 4 fights, with the 5th death consuming the rosto. This would not have to be specific to any particular rosto, simply that when your character dies for the 5th time with a rosto in the inventory, that death consumes the stone.

 

The stone would still work as normal in non-pk. I don't really see this affecting the market price of the stones either, the harvest rate for the stones etc wouldn't have to change.

 

S.

 

#edit: Oh..he edited his post.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Spleenie

[Gohan]

Erm.. point of the suggestion please, I don't see what this is supposed to do.

 

-Blee

[korrode]

Reduce the cost of PK in the hope that it will encourage more people to PK.

 

There's a lot of proof that PK cost is the main reason and has been more consensus amongst the community that rosto price is the key factor that stops a lot of people from PK'ing... more consensus than any other single thing afaik.

 

Read all big PK related threads in suggestions and gen chat for the last year.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Korrode

[Aislinn]

EDIT: Could a mod please change the thread title to read "Make only every 5th PK death use rosto".

Done

[vytukas]

This Korrode's idea is nice, PK is too expensive and many players agree as correctly stated.

 

However, even after implementing this, there is no benefit from PK, just expenses are lower.

 

How about implementing some mechanism for making players drop lets say a random amount of gold (3-7k or w/e) upon death? (death with rostogol I mean). If this is considered as a possible exploit for fast conversion $$-> gc even at a crappy rate, some extra steps may be implemented, lets say enchanting rostos before use by employing some items or even gc directly comparable to the dropped value.

 

I know this has been discussed a lot, it's not my original idea, but I haven't seen any logical arguments from the developers against it.

 

This may be somehow combined with Korrode's idea too, lets say you need items worth about 10k to enchant a raw rostogol, and 1-2k is dropped upon each death. However this way the loss of rosto should be random with some probability, not cumulative because otherwise new players would exploit 4 first deaths to get gold

[Gohan]

Reduce the cost of PK in the hope that it will encourage more people to PK.

 

There's a lot of proof that PK cost is the main reason and has been more consensus amongst the community that rosto price is the key factor that stops a lot of people from PK'ing... more consensus than any other single thing afaik.

 

Read all big PK related threads in suggestions and gen chat for the last year.

 

Sorry to be an ass. Personally I'd be more willing to PK if the PKI was removed. ;p

Cost isn't really a problem for me personally and no I'm no rl $$ guy or someone who ever has more than 100k (under normal circumstances)

 

-Blee

[korrode]

For experienced, active EL PK'ers, like ourselves, cost isn't the issue.

 

This suggestion is more to get new people into PK than it is for the current PK'ers.

 

Think about it, some person trains their char for many months to 70's a/d, steps in PK and gets poofed to the underworld in a matter of seconds.

Does this person really think it was worth the 17kgc? lol

Are they thinking "wow cant wait to get back in there!"?

Maybe some of them go "hmmm, i'm not strong enough yet"... so they train to 80 a/d and come back... and they get slapped straight to the underworld again.

 

At least if it wasn't costing them so much each time they might continue their attempts... learn some PK skill... actually get a couple of kills... and eventually become regular PK'ers

Edited July 3, 2008 by Korrode

[robotbob]

For experienced, active EL PK'ers, like ourselves, cost isn't the issue.

 

This suggestion is more to get new people into PK than it is for the current PK'ers.

 

Think about it, some person trains their char for many months to 70's a/d, steps in PK and gets poofed to the underworld in a matter of seconds.

Does this person really think it was worth the 17kgc? lol

Are they thinking "wow cant wait to get back in there!"?

Maybe some of them go "hmmm, i'm not strong enough yet"... so they train to 80 a/d and come back... and they get slapped straight to the underworld again.

 

At least if it wasn't costing them so much each time they might continue their attempts... learn some PK skill... actually get a couple of kills... and eventually become regular PK'ers

 

Wasn't this suppose to be solved with all the level limit arenas?

So they don't return because of cost now?, before you said it was because 'evil 120ader pWn'd them in 2 seconds'.

 

Why every 5th death? Why not CurrentCostOfRosto/5.

Then rosto poof rate stays the same (bricks), and its cheaper.

 

And really "rostos cheaper suggestion" is probably in the 'search, been suggested before category'

(and yeah, this is a thinly veiled rostos cheaper suggestion requiring a server dev, no offense )

[trollson]

...steps in PK and gets poofed to the underworld in a matter of seconds....

...which is why PK seems inaccessible to new players, and I don't see how changing the Rostogol Stone affects this.

 

The combat system needs to provide more opportunity or uncertainty in asymmetric engagements, or somehow separate characters of greatly unbalanced ability (search suggestions for "Law Level" as one possible approach to this).

 

If there was a change to the Rostogol stone, I'd also change the mechanism for determining death bags to accommodate it:

1. Drop 40% (or whatever the percentage currently is) of each stack, not 40% of the stacks. Use a RNG with a binomial distribution to determine the quantity lost in each stack - this gives each item in a stack a 40% chance of being dropped, but at a cost of only ~2 RNG calls per stack.

2. Use the Rostogol stone to reduce the percentage dropped, say 10% rarther than 40%, rather than giving certainty of avoiding it. Similar effect to reducing the certainly of a RS working.

3. Add that say 10% of drops are destroyed (using the same mechanism). This was suggested by someone a while ago, and its rather a nice way to add uncertainly to the situation ("sorry your COL must have been destroyed ").

 

For the OS, is the effect that RS only work:

(i) Every fifth death, or

(ii) every fifth death while carrying a RS, or

(iii) a random 20% chance of working?

If not (iii), then it would be too certain (die four times naked, then tool up for PK). If (ii) then can RS be dropped in DBs? Whats to stop players from arranging four "safe" deaths before tooling up for PK?

[Wizzy]

For me, I will lose every rostogol I have....If they cost 16k each I will lose them a lot slower then say 4k each....I would be out pking 4 times as often if the price was 1/4..

[korrode]

Wasn't this suppose to be solved with all the level limit arenas?

So they don't return because of cost now?, before you said it was because 'evil 120ader pWn'd them in 2 seconds'.

Both are factors.

The level limited arenas were as much about the current PK'ers as they were about enticing more people to PK though.

Also;

• The level limited arena i suggested was never implemented, so u have an issue with me suggesting an alternative? Sounds like arguing for the sake of arguing.
  
• Although i still completely support level limited arenas all the way up the a/d scale, i was certainly more 'gung ho' about them before the attribute cap, when the training cycle went Feros -> Yeti and there was a huge trainer coord gap between the two.
  

...and so, Robotbob, you've come on this thread with a seemingly negative attitude towards the idea why exactly?

This suggestion would hurt you how? ...maybe you prefer less people in PK? ...you like standing in KF solo and serping the f.chim?

 

 

(and yeah, this is a thinly veiled rostos cheaper suggestion)

I never said it wasn't

 

--------------------

 

For the OS, is the effect that RS only work:

(i) Every fifth death, or

(ii) every fifth death while carrying a RS, or

(iii) a random 20% chance of working?

If not (iii), then it would be too certain (die four times naked, then tool up for PK). If (ii) then can RS be dropped in DBs? Whats to stop players from arranging four "safe" deaths before tooling up for PK?

Good point, but there's ways to work around it.

Either deaths with rosto tracked, or rosto's usage itself being tracked... or even 5 different items all using the rosto image but called "Rostogol (4 deaths left)", "Rostogol (3 deaths left)", etc. and one becomes another when you die.

...or at worst, as you say, random 20% chance... although i think that's the worst option.

 

--------------------

 

@Wizzy

Exactly.

 

Good to get new people into PK.

Good to get current PK'ers PK'ing more.

Making rostos last longer or cost less logically equates to more PK.

 

--------------------

 

And i'll say it for this suggestion as has been said before for others;

no harm in trying it. If for some reason it's not working out well, it can be changed back.

[Affliction]

I like the idea.

 

I am a DPA fighter whenever i do go pk. the only thing that keeps me from fighting more often is rosto prices. if they lasted even for 2 deaths i'd be out pking ALOT more..

 

I dont win alot in PK i do it b/c i think its fun. even if im dieing .lol and since i cannot afford rosto's atm i have substituded my pking for killing ants in KF.. practically NO reward.. but its fun

 

Death to the Ants!

[Articenens]

The cost of rostos isn't the problem in my opinion, 3 hrs on iron gets you enough gc for one, the prob is the cost of the summons, rings, armors, weps and the chance that someone will pull a BRoD before you can get a red cape on and break the expensive armor/weps. I know for me its that just about anywhere now you have to have a steel set, cutlass, CoL, and MoL minimum to be sucessful in pk as well as potions and rings and the chance that someone will pull a BRoD, which seems to happen quite alot now so thats the reasons i don't pk and im sure a few others don't pk for the same reasons. Now if there was a stone that made so if your hit by a BRoD then instead of breaking gear it breaks the stone id be more willing to go back to pking.

[Tempest]

this arti guy said it. i dont rly think people care way too much about rostos... sure, most people would go PK more, but they still have the fear that their ~1 million gc gear gets damaged.

 

and expensiv gear is a must, if you dont have tit plate nowadays AT LEAST, ur pwnd. i'm sure at least on this point nobody can disagree with me

 

 

btw, making rostos cheaper will also result in rosto cheaper from shop = less bricks.

[daiske1]

so let me get this straight.

 

1st death- still have rosto

2nd death- still have rosto

3rd death-still

4th death-still

5th death- rosto is gone

-------------------------------------

If this is correct and i understand it you will be seeing a new pker in dpa

[Wizzy]

this arti guy said it. i dont rly think people care way too much about rostos... sure, most people would go PK more, but they still have the fear that their ~1 million gc gear gets damaged.

 

and expensiv gear is a must, if you dont have tit plate nowadays AT LEAST, ur pwnd. i'm sure at least on this point nobody can disagree with me

 

 

btw, making rostos cheaper will also result in rosto cheaper from shop = less bricks.

 

I would think rostos cheaper = more pk = more lost rostos= bricks remain equal? Since if they where cheaper, more people wouldnt mind risking them and they may leave IP camp fire and venture out?

[Kaddy]

Sorry bro but this wont happen...

 

KK thnx bai!

-Kad

 

EDIT# We had LOTS of reasons and LOTS of support to change LOTS of things but never accepted/implemented. And this will be one of them too. So its pointless to make PK suggestions anymore. Yes, its not dead, thanks to LION and GODZ member for keeping it alive, but no, this aint gonna happen. :<

Edited July 3, 2008 by OldySchooly

[robotbob]

Wasn't this suppose to be solved with all the level limit arenas?

So they don't return because of cost now?, before you said it was because 'evil 120ader pWn'd them in 2 seconds'.

Both are factors.

The level limited arenas were as much about the current PK'ers as they were about enticing more people to PK though.

Also;

• The level limited arena i suggested was never implemented, so u have an issue with me suggesting an alternative? Sounds like arguing for the sake of arguing.
  
• Although i still completely support level limited arenas all the way up the a/d scale, i was certainly more 'gung ho' about them before the attribute cap, when the training cycle went Feros -> Yeti and there was a huge trainer coord gap between the two.
  

...and so, Robotbob, you've come on this thread with a seemingly negative attitude towards the idea why exactly?

This suggestion would hurt you how? ...maybe you prefer less people in PK? ...you like standing in KF solo and serping the f.chim?

 

(and yeah, this is a thinly veiled rostos cheaper suggestion)

I never said it wasn't

 

 

I'm sorry korrode but I won't defacto join your pk suggestion(s) of the week(s). If I am somehow arguing by not going "omfg korrode this rozx0rs"

so be it. [i do agree, but]

But its ANOTHER cheaper rostos post, ok? I with you on it, but the (paraphrased)"Why not try my 1,000 ideas on a whim what harm can it do?"is not

a sound game plan.

 

I agree on making the game cost less in time to purchase ingame items (not time for levels), but repeating this ad nauseum won't

make is so. It only dilutes all your 'ideas' onto one long "lets try it blur".

 

"The level limited arena i suggested was never implemented, so u have an issue with me suggesting an alternative?"

Explain. Why are the current level limit arenas empty, except when you hold a contest? Is it the new "Kusa arena needs to be single" reason?

 

This suggestion would hurt you how? ...maybe you prefer less people in PK? ...you like standing in KF solo and serping the f.chim?

• I never said it would.
  
• I never said I did.
  
• I never said I do.
  

But again, Its about time, its about a plan. Would you as a project manager spend 100 hours implementing & removing things until

'player combat' is somehow magically 'full of people'? Each week the game would be different under the "trying it. If for some

reason it's not working out well, it can be changed back." method.

 

There is one variable you always omit in this, people. No matter how many suggestions you make, at some point, it up to the players

to use\make it happen. Players complained about no reward for pk, so #pki was created, and NOW its cited as a reason to not pk

(risk losing #pki). So there will always be an reason "not to pk" like what Articenens\Tempest said, cost of gear and supplies.

 

Kadlub pointed out the core of it, "Yes, its not dead, thanks to LION and GODZ member for keeping it alive".

Pk regardless of changing it weekly with "why not try it? methodology", is dependent on people.

 

I'd didn't post to argue with you, I asked questions. Albeit none of them contained "Great "

 

OK, if this will help, ignore my first post and the crap above this line.

 

Cheaper R0stOs

[Sayre]

Just to butt in, it isn't strictly speaking purely a "make rosto's cheaper" scheme. Rosto's would still work as they now do in non-pk, heck, make it work as normal in PK maps when you are killed by a creature not by a player (summons an exception perhaps?). I have no idea what ratio of lost rosto's occur in PK versus non-pk, but given the effect will only occur upon a player kill, and that rosto's will still cost the same amount (a small percentage of players actually PK so I can't imagine market price being affected very much), I object to this being labelled a "make rosts cheaper"esque idea.

 

*toddles back to the harvesting forums*

 

S.

[robotbob]

Just to butt in, it isn't strictly speaking purely a "make rosto's cheaper" scheme. Rosto's would still work as they now do in non-pk, heck, make it work as normal in PK maps when you are killed by a creature not by a player (summons an exception perhaps?). I have no idea what ratio of lost rosto's occur in PK versus non-pk, but given the effect will only occur upon a player kill, and that rosto's will still cost the same amount (a small percentage of players actually PK so I can't imagine market price being affected very much), I object to this being labelled a "make rosts cheaper"esque idea.

 

*toddles back to the harvesting forums*

 

S.

 

Well it seems like it, Instead of "one use" it has 5 uses. So its exactly same as 5 rostos for the price of one, or did I totally miss something.

[Addienne]

I simply can't understand one thing, why do you think, Korrode, that your money "as experienced player and pker" is better than the money of a simple harvester or mixer?? Why do you want to get more for the same money as i pay/rosto? I still fail to see, that how do you want to revive something if the people are taking this game so serious that they are on 15-16 hours a day, and i even know some who quited his job for the sake of it. I know that many players live in this game and have an alt in the rl. They are not playing for fun, they fail to realize that if they lose something they have another goal to play.

[Eternity]

I really can't understand the point of that post. What, "oh noes, a harv event should kill me 5 times too before i lose rosto!!12`131`14"? Uhm, harv events shouldn't kill you in the first place. I see absolutely no time where a simple mixer/harvester loses the same amount of rostos a pker loses.

[Addienne]

I really can't understand the point of that post. What, "oh noes, a harv event should kill me 5 times too before i lose rosto!!12`131`14"? Uhm, harv events shouldn't kill you in the first place. I see absolutely no time where a simple mixer/harvester loses the same amount of rostos a pker loses.

This is not the fact about the dieing by the harv event, but the discrimination, you get 5 shots if you are pker, only on if you are mixer harver or what ever you want, and for the same amount of money. So this is what i wanted to say with that post.

[Eternity]

Discrimination? That's like being annoyed at someone getting frequent flyer miles, and myself getting none, even though I've never been on an airplane in my life.