Changes to Reasoning and Instinct

[korrode]

I suggest swapping Reasoning's Rationality and Instinct's Charm.

 

Doing this would help produce more balanced and traditional defensive and offensive build options.

 

Right now, an 'Attacker' (mostly Reasoning) is also a powerful mage, capable of restoring much health and with strong offensive spells.

 

IMO a person with strong magic should not also get to be a strong melee attacker.

If Instinct gave Rationality, instead of Reasoning, we'd get the option of a Paladin-Tank style build.

Someone who can dodge hits well, heal themselves well, but is not too strong attack wise. A more sensical 'Defender' build.

'Attackers' would be forced to compensate for their weaker Restore by deterring their opponents blows to summons, of which they'd have an advantage with due to high Charm.

 

It should also promote more balanced reas/inst ratios, and IMO it also makes more sense for mages to be able to dodge well but have weak attack ability.

 

For the record; this would not make my char more powerful, it'd make me weaker.

Commence the "omfg no way! this sux! it'd screw up my char build!!1"

 

edit: typo

Edited July 2, 2008 by Korrode

[Cycloonx]

omfg no way! this sux! it'd screw up my char build!!1

 

 

It might balance the game, but the problem is that most people have spend their pp already. So for most people it would be impossible to 'rebuild' their char.

[TirunCollimdus]

I think balancing the game is more important than who does or does not want to reset. IMO removal stones go back up in price because of a suddenly high demand after people figure out how they want to rebuild. Improvise, adapt and overcome.

 

This is the way it should always have been. Entropy fixed the bug so that toughness no longer protected your armor. Lots of players had to rearrange their builds for that too. Better for the game is better for the game. Korrode's logic is irrefutable and inescapable. The attributes as they are don't make sense.

 

Reasoning can clearly explain charm as a manipulative effect and that I think leads more soundly to the double summons too. Will and reasoning are too much the same thing to make them combine to make rationality. I think rationality is more descriptive of the over all thought process and requires instinct to have a place in it.

 

It is simply better for the game so why not do it even it people have to work to overcome it? Making the game more balanced means it is more interesting too because there is more diversity in character builds. I think this deserves at least a shot on the test server before anyone says no. It really needs to be in game for better game balance.

 

Tirun

[vytukas]

The game mechanics has already been changing too many times recently. Yes, it is a beta version, but some people are playing it quite seriously, and such changes require reset or rebuild with many stones which would become expensive. As a result, many people may be pissed and leave or play much less.

 

There is one more problem - this way tank builds like full phys/instinct/vitality would become much more powerful for both PK and defense training. I don't say it's a bad thing, but when it is hard to kill even weaker players, fights get a bit boring, more pvp style with no winner.

 

Although as for me, it doesn't matter, I'll adapt if needed.

 

P.S. Korrode weren't you designing another game?

[groomsh]

I really like your suggestion.

Makes sense to me...

[Tempest]

for me it doesn't matter either, i'm just tired of seeing yet another major change to the game.

the last 2 major changes made many many people quit.

 

EDIT: just read vytukas post and i agree, this would need more than just 2 attributes swapped, i can already see people getting 48/48/48 p/i/v mirroring dragons to death or training triple M + double F chim without any problems. i guess some people can even take ACW multi then.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Tempest

[korrode]

EDIT: just read vytukas post and i agree, this would need more than just 2 attributes swapped, i can already see people getting 48/48/48 p/i/v mirroring dragons to death or training triple M + double F chim without any problems. i guess some people can even take ACW multi then.

Whats to stop people from doing that now?

The only difference is they'd have a weaker restore... but they could still do what you mention.

 

The effect on training and PvE would be minimal really, where my suggestion would have a big effect is in PK.

 

EDIT:

Also, people who would do as u say with a dragon... isn't having to mirror the dragons hits better than people being able to hit the dragon?

And you cant mirror what doesn't hit you, if 48/48/48 p/c/i person dodges 50% of dragon hits and mirrors 10% of successful ones, that means they'll mirror 1/20 hits, and they'll very rarely hit the drag with their wep (crits only). Where as, by the same logic, a same a/d but 48/48/48 p/c/r person will mirror 1/10 dragon hits AND hit the dragon 50% of the time!

I think u need to re-think this whole "people will mirror the dragons" thing. As far as i can see, if doing this would make killing dragons so easy, then killing them with things as they are atm is even easier.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Korrode

[Tempest]

Whats to stop people from doing that now?

The only difference is they'd have a weaker restore... but they could still do what you mention.

 

The effect on training and PvE would be minimal really, where my suggestion would have a big effect is in PK.

 

EDIT:

Also, people who would do as u say with a dragon... isn't having to mirror the dragons hits better than people being able to hit the dragon?

And you cant mirror what doesn't hit you, if 48/48/48 p/c/i person dodges 50% of dragon hits and mirrors 10% of successful ones, that means they'll mirror 1/20 hits, and they'll very rarely hit the drag with their wep (crits only). Where as, by the same logic, a same a/d but 48/48/48 p/c/r person will mirror 1/10 dragon hits AND hit the dragon 50% of the time!

I think u need to re-think this whole "people will mirror the dragons" thing. As far as i can see, if doing this would make killing dragons so easy, then killing them with things as they are atm is even easier.

ok let me answer ur question.. im talking about noobs. for high lvl players it doesnt matter at all nothing much would change. but imagine a person with 40 a/d, 48/48/48 p/i/v. the same damage reduction as 92 phys, which i tested several times on testserver (tried 60,92,122,162). 92 physique reduces hits from a dragon to 20-40 which is basicly nothing, and if a person mirrors those hits he will mirror for 80-110 damage, not for the amount that he takes as damage, no, he will mirror for the amount that the dragon would hit without him absorbing. (tested it, go to testserver and try it out).

 

and btw, mirror cape also works when you block all hits, go attack a puma and constantly flee it, you'll see it will die by your mirrors even tho you character doesnt move.

 

 

like i said ... once again, for the high lvls switching both attributes won't do much, which makes the last 2 lines of your post kinda unrelevant

[Maslicka]

omfg no way! this sux! it'd screw up my char build!!1

 

I dont think its a bad idea actually,but another ppl might leave. Only problem i see is that above mentioned PvP PKing...fight as long as sum1 looses MI...and with multi acw...LOL xD

[Tempest]

omfg no way! this sux! it'd screw up my char build!!1

 

I dont think its a bad idea actually,but another ppl might leave. Only problem i see is that above mentioned PvP PKing...fight as long as sum1 looses MI...and with multi acw...LOL xD

not LOL, go get 48 p/v/i on testserver and try it.

 

EDIT: it's the same as 92 phys and 92 coord (for the high lvls who have enough pps for it) and trust me, that definitly is enough for taking 2 acw on you when your name is e.g. toomass

Edited July 2, 2008 by Tempest

[Maslicka]

lol w/e but there are no PKers on test ;p maybe you can multi acw but that wont help you much in PK...and hulda is PK afaik

Edited July 2, 2008 by Maslicka

[Tempest]

PM ohmygod and ask him if you get premission for his char, my def is too low

[korrode]

Even if all what you've said is right Temp, people could still do it all now just they'd have weaker restore... none of it invalidates this suggestion or makes it a bad idea.

[Tempest]

Even if all what you've said is right Temp, people could still do it all now just they'd have weaker restore... none of it invalidates this suggestion or makes it a bad idea.

yeh for the most people you'r actually right they can even do that now. but i mean the people who will take "mage" builds with your new swapped cross attributes. people who want to be mages will take instinct and phys for emu, which will bring them a nice block rate and since vitality brings their mana up they have a nice block rate + some good chance to mirror a monster that they can be kind of a mage which has strong magic + good blockrate and with vitality a nice way to kill high lvl mobs.

 

anyway this is nothing that i can be sure about, it's just something they COULD do.

[vytukas]

In short, this suggestion isn't a bad idea per se, but it isnt brilliant either. Efficient restores and magic is kind of a must in PK, so many players would just switch from reasoning to more defensive builds of instinct.

Therefore it wouldn't add much diversity, just best 'reccomended' builds would change. Also as I've mentioned PK fights would tend to be more defensive, more pvp like with hits being rare. Might become boring?

 

In conclusion: I am against not because I hate this idea but because it would make many people angry (rebuilding chars) with benefit being questionable

Edited July 3, 2008 by vytukas

[korrode]

In short, this suggestion isn't a bad idea per se, but it isnt brilliant either.

Oh i agree it isn't brilliant.

A brilliant idea is to stop Dexterity and Might, and Dexterity and Reaction being raised by any single attribute (i.e. coord).

 

If well thought through, EL's attributes could be changed in such a manner that would increase the reward for intelligence and strategy and remove the need for an attribute cap.

...but i've already suggested that before.

 

Efficient restores and magic is kind of a must in PK, so many players would just switch from reasoning to more defensive builds of instinct.

Therefore it wouldn't add much diversity, just best 'reccomended' builds would change. Also as I've mentioned PK fights would tend to be more defensive, more pvp like with hits being rare. Might become boring?

Well, PK would only be like that for people who choose to take mostly inst.

'Ruthless PK'ers' who want to be able to kill their opponents wouldn't take all inst.

I think for the most part my suggestion would make people even out their reas and inst.

The fights between certain players would become longer, sure, but not massively long as you imply. Medallion, weapon, potions strategy would become more important.

 

In conclusion: I am against not because I hate this idea but because it would make many people angry (rebuilding chars) with benefit being questionable

Fair enough.

[Tempest]

korrode just to clarify, it's not like i love to track down every suggestion from you.

it's just that i can see people taking 48 instinct for perfect blocks/nice heal and then multing D chim and healing it for 80-90 you know. endless pvp/multi exp :/