Serpent Stones

[Gohan]

Today's topic by a really-too-lazy-to-search-for-other-topics-but-I-hope-none-exist-yet person. (Yes, fantastic introduction to this thread, I know! Thanks!)

 

Serpent Stones

 

Situation:

 

I've been trying to buy a couple things for several days, with no result, one of both being wolfram bars.

I firstly didn't see any problem except that I couldn't work further on a plan, but anyway.

Talking to LL, I found out WHY I couldn't buy any Wolfram Bars, the problem are the Serpent Stones.

 

 

The problem is there is a very low supply of Serpent Stones on the market, the reason? I don't know, either there are some really good hoarders, or there really is a serious lack of them.

I'm going to assume it's the second one, as these are in a constant demand on the market for: Great Swords, CoL/CoM, <possible other, I have no idea>, ...

 

This provides a problem for the economy, since due to breaking of items, you will have a constant OR rising demand on items from the players who break stuff and new players. While the supply and income of Serpent Stones remains the same - low. The prices rise, good for those who do find one and sell it. But still, it's a problem in the production of many items.

 

The obvious solution to this is that there "needs" to be an increase of Serpent Stones coming back into the game, so the production of all the great swords, CoL/CoM, etc .. may remain.

 

I would suggest to slightly alter some monsters drop rates on Serpent Stones. I know many monsters drop these already, but still there seems to be a lack of them.

 

 

What do others experience around this on the market and what is everyone elses idea on this?

 

-Blee

[Forgiven]

well...take a look at the price of a col. it rose slightly...probably due to the fact that serpant stones rose in price from a lack of quantity.

[Cycloonx]

There is shortage on serpent stones and binding stones imo. I think if it will keep like this for a year (so all armour stocks are gone too), the prices will be unbearable. I also remember searching them on market and found none

[Mango]

Buy from Shop .

[LevinMage]

There is shortage on serpent stones and binding stones imo. I think if it will keep like this for a year (so all armour stocks are gone too), the prices will be unbearable. I also remember searching them on market and found none

 

Hmm serp stones have gone from 2k to 5k, binding stones up .5-1k each, and yet for example price of Great Swords still at around 20k each... I hate to point fingers, but I would say the high level item producers are your main culprit. High level items like steel/tit/dragon sets are all DOWN, Great Swords relatively the SAME even with all these high prices. As much as a doomsday scenario is interesting to think of, it will never happen.

 

Base ingredients often cost more than a finished product with armor/weapons, so you can either buy the finished product cheaper, or spend more gc to buy the items and produce it yourself. (with hope of a magic item)

[jowwow]

Jeepers has 5of them as of 10seconds ago, and has had 4-8ish the last few days.

Charn also usually has a couple.

 

Just cause you don't like their prices doesnt mean they don't exist.

[Ateh]

Yes Blee there is an obvious lack of serpent stones, and as someone else pointed out Binding stones to.

 

Will the rate of finding them increase any time soon ? I doubt it, for awhile now the plan has been ( and was even anounced a couple of times in game before some sort of PK event ) to get high end armors out of the game, and also I presume great swords as there were obviously too many of them in game.

 

But saying that, you CAN find the stones you want, its just that you now have to pay more than your used to Blee. Oh and also your going to have to buy from a trade bot, but thats another topic.

 

And Levin seriously WTF are you on about LOL you cant blame manuers for the price of rare stones. Like you said the price of armors and weapons has remained pretty steady compared to the inflation in stones. The price increase in stones has got fuck all to do with Manuers , the way I see it :

 

Stones made more rare = less on market = price went up a bit

 

Anyway, in summary Blee , my solution to the great stone shortage and thier price is this : give up caring man it will save you alot of time and effort

[Gohan]

Jeepers has 5of them as of 10seconds ago, and has had 4-8ish the last few days.

Charn also usually has a couple.

 

Just cause you don't like their prices doesnt mean they don't exist.

 

I never looked for the Serpent Stones on bots, whatsoever. I'm not bothered to make my own bars. But I was assuming there is a shortage on them because I can't find the bars I need and they require those. And someone else pointed out they were a problem.

 

I only looked on bots for Bindings.

 

 

Anyway, in summary Blee , my solution to the great stone shortage and thier price is this : give up caring man it will save you alot of time and effort

 

I can always go on without caring, tbh, it doesn't affect me that much at all. But as I consulted some others, they encouraged me to post this. So I could as well go ahead and do that.

 

So I'll find another way to spend my money. Where's that NPC with magical stuff... ^.^

 

-Blee

[LevinMage]

And Levin seriously WTF are you on about LOL you cant blame manuers for the price of rare stones. Like you said the price of armors and weapons has remained pretty steady compared to the inflation in stones. The price increase in stones has got fuck all to do with Manuers , the way I see it :

Stones made more rare = less on market = price went up a bit

I can't? Most high level armors steel/titanium and great weapons have had the same price or decreased despite having a large increase in cost for ingredients. Manufactures continue to COMPETE for these rare stones to make more high level armors/weapons for the chance of getting a magic steel/titanium or in the case of dragon sets to sell for profit with cheap scales. As long as manufactures keep on buying them at ever increasing rates and using them so that we have a SURPLUS of tit/steel/great weapons, they will remain high. The average person didn't cause the serp/binding stones to jump in price, it the people making 30 steel cuisses or whatever, which is why we have a small number available for the average person.

 

Stones made more rare = less on market = price went up a bit

Just because there are fewer of them available doesn't mean it is harder to find them. Only Entropy knows where he changed the rate for finding them during harvest events or monster drops.

[Entropy]

Just to let you know, besides for the serpent stones that come from the store (and there are not so many that we sell), many days there are twice as many serp stones coming in the game than getting out.

Right now, there are more serp stones in the game than there were 3 weeks ago (about 60 more).

So there is no real shortage, just people not selling them.

 

And if you are curious about the number, there are about 14500 serp stones in the game right now (more than the EFEs, or than any other rare items).

[bkc56]

So there is no real shortage, just people not selling them.

Sounds like the prices being offered simply need to go up to the point that people are willing to sell them.

[Ateh]

I can't?

 

no you cant, cheeky monkey

 

Most high level armors steel/titanium and great weapons have had the same price or decreased despite having a large increase in cost for ingredients. Manufactures continue to COMPETE for these rare stones to make more high level armors/weapons for the chance of getting a magic steel/titanium or in the case of dragon sets to sell for profit with cheap scales. As long as manufactures keep on buying them at ever increasing rates and using them so that we have a SURPLUS of tit/steel/great weapons, they will remain high.

 

so what you saying ? everyone stop manufacturing ? hold a protest on IP throwing serp stones into the wishing well ? fuck.....

 

The average person didn't cause the serp/binding stones to jump in price, it the people making 30 steel cuisses or whatever, which is why we have a small number available for the average person.

 

As we have seen from Ents post, there is only a percieved shortage of serp stones, so I admit my simple equation of less stones , increased market price is wrong. Actually im totally shocked to see how many serp stones are in game. Because finding one to buy from a real player is a nightmare.

 

But, I promise you Levin I watched very closely the recent/not so recent increase in the price of serp stones. If you do a search in General Chat I made a post not so long ago about price of Great Swords and how it was stupid that the price hasnt gone up in conjunction with the price of serp stones.

 

Whatever the cause of it was ( hoarding / whatever ) I have only this to say about Manuers COMPETING for serp stones therefore increasing thier prices:

 

BOLLOCKS ( english word meaning testicles )

 

The first time I saw a serp stone for more than 3.5k it was being sold by a bot. The first serp stone I saw being sold for 5k was from a bot. The first stone I saw being sold for 7k , yes 7kgc was on a bot. Ive even seen them being sold for 9k from a bot.

 

Manuers were not the ones going on the market channel trying to increase the price of serp stones. Thats suicide man.

 

Do you honestly think Manuers intentionally increased the prices of serp stones ? How exactly did they do that and more importantly why the f*** would they ? To make thier own skill even less profitable and even more not worth doing ?

 

Come on man, no manuer was making a profit BEFORE the price of serp stones went up, what would have been the point in trying to make the price higher for themselves ? LOL

 

Like BKC said, whats ended up happening is , if you want the serp stone you have to pay what people are asking, or more to the point, you have to pay the price the bot is asking that is willing to sell.

 

*edit* fixed quotes

Edited June 8, 2008 by Ateh

[Ermabwed]

Looking for some steel long swords to reduce the number of serpent stones in game by a roundabout way

[Cycloonx]

So there is no real shortage, just people not selling them.

Sounds like the prices being offered simply need to go up to the point that people are willing to sell them.

 

Or people need to have the feeling that if they sell their stones today, they can buy other stones when they need them theirself. Most of the time I don't sell the stones I find just because I know that one day I will need them and it is so hard to buy on market.

[jim55]

Here's the deal, 20 steel long @600gc per, 2 serp stones @5kgc+ per and 1 binder @7kgc and i am supposed to sell a great sword to the general public for 20kgc ? Not in this lifetime.

[Pyewacket]

...snip...

Actually Ateh, whilst I agree its sheer bollocks to blame all manuers for the perceived shortage of serp stones, I am sure there will be SOME who are to blame. In much the same way that not ALL crafters will be responsible for the perceived shortage of binding stones I know for certain SOME will be, especially since I gladly just forked out 70kgc to buy 10 of them from a bot as soon as I saw they were in stock. Not only that but I have been offering 7.2k on market channel at various points thru-out the past week.

 

So what I am saying is, no, not everyone that does the skill will be willing to do this and risk the loss, but hey guess what? some of em will just to get the pr0 bite of exp in and the good end product as a bonus (even if it MIGHT make a lesser profit or even a loss).

 

Sorry Ateh, but I am sure I am not alone.

[LevinMage]

Do you honestly think Manuers intentionally increased the prices of serp stones ? How exactly did they do that and more importantly why the f*** would they ? To make thier own skill even less profitable and even more not worth doing ?

Come on man, no manuer was making a profit BEFORE the price of serp stones went up, what would have been the point in trying to make the price higher for themselves ? LOL

Not intentionally, but with a few of them buying as much as they can find(constant/high demand) the price is bound to go up. They lose money on regular great swords , 3-4k per maybe, but if they make 40 of them and get 1 magic OSMN or COtM, they will net 100+k. So in the end they will make a profit, buy only if they produce in bulk which uses LOTS of serp stones. Then dump the regular great swords on the market and sell for a small loss. The only person who this effects are small manufactures who want to make 1-2 of a great sword/steel/tit armor only, or other skills that need a serp stone. Fighters still get the finished products at below cost and the higher level manufactures get their magic weapons/armor and gc.

 

NOTE: I am not trying to say this is bad in anyway, since as a fighter, I prefer buying my equipment at below cost and enjoy using the special weapons/armors.

Edited June 8, 2008 by LevinMage

[Ateh]

In a roundabout way ive been trying to hint at something in my posts without saying it but I might as well just say it because i feel its true and have felt its true for ages.

 

As has been shown in at least one posts above, what eventually happens is someone gets tired of asking for things on the market channel and ends up buying from a bot, and has to pay EXACTLY what the bot asks for and more often than not its a price that is too much.

 

Like i said earlier, when I was watching closely the price rises in serp stones especially, it was happening on bots. They were advertising thier prices , each one getting a little higher than the last until eventually within the space of a few weeks, serp stones had gone up from 3k to over 5k.

 

Yes , im blaming the bots again, and yes I know theres a player behind the bot but it doesnt change that we are being forced to overpay for stones from bots. Now THAT is bollocks.

 

Shit, I even saw one bot ( wont say which one ) selling serp stones for over 5k and yet at the same time selling a wolfram bar for 9k , so theyre telling me that 10 steel longs are only worth 4k ? 400gc each ?? lol dont think so. That same bot was at the time also selling a cutlass for 21k.

 

So in that twisted thinking the wolfram bars in the cutlass were worth LESS than the price it was selling them for itslef LOL UNLESS of course a binding stone was actually worth 3k. But hey guess what ?? The same bot was selling a binding stone for 8k.

 

I totalled it up, and if you had bought all the ingredients to make the cutlass yourself you would have paid over 26k for it, yet the Cutlass it was selling was 21k . Go figure. You can see why I cant accept that manuers are to blame for price increases in serp stones. its not manuers that are spewing BS prices on market channel.

[Entropy]

If you don't like the bot prices, don't buy from them, buy directly from the 'producers'.

[Pyewacket]

If you don't like the bot prices, don't buy from them, buy directly from the 'producers'.

that effectively would mean the 'producers' would be expected to ask for a lesser price than those advertised by bots though..I cant say I have been on market channel much lately if I am honest, does this actually happen now? Are 'producers' undercutting bot prices? and doesnt that mean the price of the end product (cutlass in Atehs example) would be even lower than 21k from a producer? I am sorry, not quite certain I understand this one..

 

The only other thing I think you might mean is the producers of the various ingredients, such as stones, bars etc..but since bots are so well tweaked on buy-in prices, then the producers themselves dont seem to feel the need to get less gc for their item by selling direct to players when a bot offers more for it...

 

Nope..completely lost me here so I think I will just sod off to bed and re read it all tomorrow when I am more refreshed in the hope I might fire the right neuron.

[Chosen]

Increase the price NPC buys 'Great Swords' to 25k.

[Cycloonx]

If you don't like the bot prices, don't buy from them, buy directly from the 'producers'.

that effectively would mean the 'producers' would be expected to ask for a lesser price than those advertised by bots though..I cant say I have been on market channel much lately if I am honest, does this actually happen now? Are 'producers' undercutting bot prices? and doesnt that mean the price of the end product (cutlass in Atehs example) would be even lower than 21k from a producer? I am sorry, not quite certain I understand this one..

 

Almost no one uses bot channel #3. It's sad, but bots didn't only destroyed market, they also destroyed the channel with their spam.

[LevinMage]

Almost no one uses bot channel #3. It's sad, but bots didn't only destroyed market, they also destroyed the channel with their spam.

This is easy to fix. I have all but 3 bots on ignore, which makes the channel much easier to read/use.

Edited June 9, 2008 by LevinMage

[Cycloonx]

Almost no one uses bot channel #3. It's sad, but bots didn't only destroyed market, they also destroyed the channel with their spam.

This is easy to fix. I have all but 3 bots on ignore, which makes the channel much easier to read/use.

 

Well it seems almost no one of the new players does this. And also alot of the regulars left the market channel. I used to view the market channel a lot in the past (like 2-3 years ago) and then a lot of players advertised their stuff. And if you sold something your own there always was a buyer. Nowadays almost no players advertise stuff and if you advertise yourself you find no buyers at all.

[Entropy]

Well, then just go and make your own market channel, there are billions of channels to pick from

As for the 'producers' price, the idea is that the bots are there to make a proffit, so they buy cheap and sell expensive. If you buy from the 'producers', then the commision will not apply.