Magic Immune

[korrode]

All spells having a 50% chance to fail while MI is cast is a bad idea, imo.

There isn't really a strategic way to combat this... If you step in PK without MI cast, you are dead, or if you're lucky; diss-tele'ing within seconds.

With MI cast, and Restoration failing half the time, people will often die due to bad luck trying to heal... this would be extremely frustrating, you cant do anything about it, there is no strategy that can be used.

 

It wouldn't make the game more interesting, or challenging, or difficult... just tedious and annoying.

 

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EDIT:

I totally agree that spells should require magic nexus. Spells such as Heal and Remote Heal wouldn't require the nexus, however advanced spells would need quite some pp put into magic nexus, e.g. Restore, TPTPR = 2 magic nexus;Magic Immunity = 3 Magic Nexus etc.

 

It's a perfect solution:

 

a) High level fighters won't automatically be mages anymore. They will have to carefully think how much pp they can afford to put into this nexus

Nah, the numbers in your example are too low.

Everyone will just pull a few pp off their r/w/i/v and take the nexus up to whatever is needed for MD.

Nothing would change, effectively.

 

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One thing i did just think of...

You could have all self affecting spells (eg. restoration, shield, portals room, etc.) except MI require no nexus, and all offensive spells (harm, mana drain, etc.) and MI require a lot of nexus... say 20 pp's on a nexus before u can cast life drain, poison and harm, and 30+ pick points on for MD and MI.

 

But I still worry it'd end up making the hydro nex ppl even stronger than they are now... could always remove the hydro nex NPC and #reset everyone

 

EDIT2:

Argh, wait, forgot about summon's cooldown and manaburn effects... it's bad enough when you get a zoo summoned on you as it is, if your average fighter can't cast MI without 30 pp in a nexus, EL PK would just become war of the summon stones.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Korrode

[PriVate]

well, if people want a class system, i would suggest that there be classes but that dosnt mean you cannot do other skills. So for example if you want to be a mage, then youll take that class and by doing so therell be an advantage give to you like spell effect you cast will be 20% stronger or if you take up archery as your class youll do lets say 20% more damage than other classes however that does not mean that you cannot do other skills like fighting etc.. you can still do them but therell be no advantage.(but ofcourse you can only take up one class that is )

[Schmurk]

What about introducing a "breach spell" to break the magic protection/immunity of your opponent?

This spell could require a high magic level (60?), use a lot of mana (maybe like 50+) and also have a chance of success depending on the magic level and attributes.

This way, only people who are really focusing on magic would use it because I'm not sure that someone in a PK fight would risk to lose mana on something that would maybe not work.

[korrode]

Schmurk...

 

Most of the top mages are also the top a/d'ers...

These people are already very powerful in PK just from their a/d and attribs... they also have the highest magic levels and the most mana and rationality... your suggestion would only serve to make the strong stronger.

It wont separate mages and fighters, it'll just produce super-strong mage-fighters.

 

The issue is discussed to some depth HERE.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Korrode

[masterpiter]

Before any change is made i would suggest to test it really good on test server, for example:

Check how much fight 1on1 lasts yeti vs d-chim trainer ( or clops vs fluffy trainer, as long as the difference is big enough ;p) with current mag immune, then look how different it will look if spell( defensive in nature so always helps weaker player more) is changed for worse.

There were many things implemented w/o checking how big they affect pking, dont make same mistakes like in the past plz.

 

Also important is here psychological aspect, if a fighter knows after mag immune he will fail 50% of spells( restores) then he wont cast it coz he will not want to die coz of random event w/o doing any mistake( random event- ur restore failed).

 

Then of coz he is very weak vs any harm/mana drain spells, which makes him lose mana fast and die easier.

The stronger person will not restore anyways or restore not so often like the weaker opponent, so can afford to have 50% fails.

 

We dont want to have even more diss+tele or tele onsight situations.

 

mp

[groomsh]

Spell failure percentage could be made dependent on type of armor you wear.

 

Leather armor 0% fail rate

Iron armor 10% fail rate

Steel armor 30%

Titanium armor+ 50%

 

(Numbers are just examples)

 

Or make it dependent on armor weight...

[Jaclaw]

Spell failure percentage could be made dependent on type of armor you wear.

 

Leather armor 0% fail rate

Iron armor 10% fail rate

Steel armor 30%

Titanium armor+ 50%

 

(Numbers are just examples)

 

Or make it dependent on armor weight...

or

leather armor 0% chance your MI won't work

iron armor 10% etc etc

 

i'd add factor based on your magic lvl too

[groomsh]

i'd add factor based on your magic lvl too

 

Yes but it would have to be only a small adjustment, because as said, the top fighters have also high magic.

 

EDIT: i would still make all spells dependent ...

Edited May 29, 2008 by groomsh

[Jaclaw]

i'd add factor based on your magic lvl too

 

Yes but it would have to be only a small adjustment, because as said, the top fighters have also high magic.

 

EDIT: i would still make all spells dependent ...

and why we don't get advantage of our magic lvl? you can go burn your AEs too, not only strong fighters can do it

[Schmurk]

Schmurk...

 

Most of the top mages are also the top a/d'ers...

These people are already very powerful in PK just from their a/d and attribs... they also have the highest magic levels and the most mana and rationality... your suggestion would only serve to make the strong stronger.

It wont separate mages and fighters, it'll just produce super-strong mage-fighters.

 

The issue is discussed to some depth HERE.

Yes I know that top fighters are already top mages. This is why I think that attributes should play a bigger role than the skill. Do top fighters have 48 in reasoning, vitality and will? Honestly I doubt...

So during a PK fight, even if someone has let's say 10 rationality more than his opponent, he will not have 100% chance to break magical protection of his opponent so it's still a big risk to burn mana on that. Now, there are also some armors that give you magical protection, let's give them a use in PK maybe...

 

I've read the other thread and I totally agree with all walt_her said. Actually, offensive magic is totally useless in PK and the restoration spell is a must have for a/d training which is a big problem.

If we had better healing potion that allow you to heal for 100+ HP at the same cost of a restoration, then having a magical breach spell won't be really a problem, right?

 

Anyway, to have a better balance and to allow some players to develop mages builds, it would also require some other changes like more spells and different cooldowns on each spells. So there are no easy fixes.

[Dushan]

Yes I know that top fighters are already top mages. This is why I think that attributes should play a bigger role than the skill. Do top fighters have 48 in reasoning, vitality and will? Honestly I doubt...

So during a PK fight, even if someone has let's say 10 rationality more than his opponent, he will not have 100% chance to break magical protection of his opponent so it's still a big risk to burn mana on that. Now, there are also some armors that give you magical protection, let's give them a use in PK maybe...

 

So they should be disadvantaged for being stronger and for playing more than the others? Skill should play a bigger role than the attributes ...

 

If we had better healing potion that allow you to heal for 100+ HP at the same cost of a restoration, then having a magical breach spell won't be really a problem, right?

Wrong, people like toomass or asgnny would just drain/harm the shit out of you which would only make them stronger than they are now. Don't mess with MI spell please

[LeoI]

Also important is here psychological aspect, if a fighter knows after mag immune he will fail 50% of spells( restores) then he wont cast it coz he will not want to die coz of random event w/o doing any mistake( random event- ur restore failed).

 

Then of coz he is very weak vs any harm/mana drain spells, which makes him lose mana fast and die easier.

The stronger person will not restore anyways or restore not so often like the weaker opponent, so can afford to have 50% fails.

 

what if instead of 50% fails the health restored itself is just reduced by 50%. or even a random percent between 50-100% or 1-100% of health restored. people would be less scared then to use it

[Schmurk]

Yes I know that top fighters are already top mages. This is why I think that attributes should play a bigger role than the skill. Do top fighters have 48 in reasoning, vitality and will? Honestly I doubt...

So during a PK fight, even if someone has let's say 10 rationality more than his opponent, he will not have 100% chance to break magical protection of his opponent so it's still a big risk to burn mana on that. Now, there are also some armors that give you magical protection, let's give them a use in PK maybe...

 

So they should be disadvantaged for being stronger and for playing more than the others? Skill should play a bigger role than the attributes ...

So what you are saying is that in the current combat system, the a/d is more important than the attributes?

You can have a big a/d but if don't have the attributes that go with it it's totally useless so why shouldn't it be the same with magic?

 

What would happen if you bind magic power only to the skill and you introduce a magic immunity removal spell? Then everybody would have to train a/d + magic and you'll end up with exactly the same situation as it is now, which means everybody will have the same builds.

 

Attributes are here to allow people to have different builds and to have different play styles. Now if PK is limited to train your a/d, put all pps in p/c and cast magic immunity, then I don't really see where is the fun. Better go play a FPS, you'll save a lot of hours of training...

[conavar]

If MI is changed (hope not) any formula should include Magic level, if players want a mage build character they should have to get off there backsides and train magic, and not be about how many pickpoints they spend in attributes.

Also IMO it would need to take into consideration your opponents levels as well, a level 50 mage shouldnt be able to breach a level 100 mages immunity very easily ( if at all ).

 

Something like:

 

Casters Magic Level + Magic nexus (x2) = ?? divided by 10 = A

 

vs

 

Opponenents Magic Level + Magic nexus (x2)= ?? divided by 10 = B

 

Then A - B gives the % chance to bypass the MI spell

 

So

 

Caster Magic level 70 + Magic nexus 6 (x2) = 82 /10 = 8.2%

 

vs

 

Opponents magic level 56 + Magic Nexus 0 (x2) = 56 /10 = 5.6%

 

Giving the casters spell 2.6% chance to bypass the MI spell . ( edit: the "divided by 10%" could be lowered or removed (gives 26% chance to bypass MI) if it gives a more realistic balance)

 

 

 

Cross attributes could also be added to the formula is needed/wanted

 

Magic level + Magic nexus (x2) + Perception (eg) = ??

 

 

If cross attributes were used I would like to see the attribute used to calculate the att score differant from the one used to calculate the def score. This way players could build either A ) a good offensive mage B ) a good defensive mage or C ) try and balance them both

Edited May 29, 2008 by conavar

[groomsh]

If MI is changed (hope not) any formula should include Magic level, if players want a mage build character they should have to get off there backsides and train magic, and not be about how many pickpoints they spend in attributes.

 

I disagree on this with you.

That would be the same as making fighting not take into account how many PPs you spent on P/C

[conavar]

If MI is changed (hope not) any formula should include Magic level, if players want a mage build character they should have to get off there backsides and train magic, and not be about how many pickpoints they spend in attributes.

 

I disagree on this with you.

That would be the same as making fighting not take into account how many PPs you spent on P/C

 

I did put that a cross attribute could be used, im not against that but Im against a mage of level 50 being as strong as one at level 100 just because they have spent the same amount of pp's ( if the level 50 mage spends 100 pp's on his mage build and the level 100 doesnt then yes they should get the benifit, but pp's shouldnt be the be all and end all)

 

You get two Pkers with the same build but with 50 a/d levels differance, on a level playing field ( no summons, no magic swords ) 99% of the time there will only be one winner, magic should be like that no ?

 

 

note: I know it is possible for a low a/der to kill a higher one but thats mostly down to pk skill and items

Edited May 29, 2008 by conavar

[Zeddicul]

Maybe mag immun shouldn't be totally removed. But as i am not a strong mage (only top 200) i feel i belong to the stronger. Forcing mages to put pp into nexus is plain stupid imho, as a mage you need few things:

take as less damage as possible

have as much mana you can get

make sure your rationality is as high as possible.

 

this all takes a lot of pp which are useless for a/d fighters.

 

now the spells, sure there should be more offencive spells and even some more lvl'd defence spells too. But saying MI is needed or else it wil ruine PK is strange, as a mage i dont stand a chance against any special wheapon there for there should be spells with the same effect so when some1 wears steel plate i use a fire spell, if ppl have tit. plate they have some mag protection so maybe a strong radiation spell or anything like that. you get the picture i hope.

 

EL being classless is also the imho be able to be a mage instead of just being another a/d fighter who happend to have restored a lot so he has a decent mag lvl.

 

just my 2 cnt's.

 

PS.

I hope there soon will be something chanced to i can leave my MD/LD training and actualy step into some pk maps and stand a chance in fights with ppl around my lvl.

 

PS2

 

btw. All i hear is about the top players... how did they become top? and is this game only about them and are the thousends low/middle players just there to fill the maps ?

[Cycloonx]

The problem is I think that you can currently cast harm and all other spells every 2 secs after eachother. I think there should be cooldown depending on a spell.

 

Like:

 

Harm: 10 seconds

Mana Drain: 8 seconds

Restore: 2-3 seconds

 

And they shouldn't influence eachother. This way you prevent people using 5 harms after eachother, but now people would conserve their harm for a moment their opponent is low on health. If he does it on the wrong time, he will have to wait again 10 secs. This way stronger spells could have longer cooldowns.

 

Edit:

 

This way we might be able to keep MI. Give MI a big cooldown (like 30 secs), and let it only last for 5 secs (so you can use it at a moment you think your opponent might use a spell).

Edited May 29, 2008 by Cycloonx

[Zeddicul]

The problem is I think that you can currently cast harm and all other spells every 2 secs after eachother. I think there should be cooldown depending on a spell.

 

Like:

 

Harm: 10 seconds

Mana Drain: 8 seconds

Restore: 2-3 seconds

 

And they shouldn't influence eachother. This way you prevent people using 5 harms after eachother, but now people would conserve their harm for a moment their opponent is low on health. If he does it on the wrong time, he will have to wait again 10 secs. This way stronger spells could have longer cooldowns.

 

Edit:

 

This way we might be able to keep MI. Give MI a big cooldown (like 30 secs), and let it only last for 5 secs (so you can use it at a moment you think your opponent might use a spell).

 

 

before the adjustment of the TS pot I was able to go to DPa, i didn't stand a chance to any fighter there, therefor i had to team with my guildy, him fighting (he is not the strongest there) and me MD his opponent and healing him. This way of fighting is so dam sneaky it didn't feel good. Ofcourse after a few NDD's we did this trick we had somany pissed of already that the very moment i stepped into the arena i had several fighters on me/waiting to catch dis and kill me.

 

In a fight whyle trying to use magic you cant stand a chance because of all the special and over powered wheapons, you know why ? because assoon as you can cast another spell it has tobe restoration, there is no time for any offensif spell, you will die.

 

With the system we have atm. training magic, and dam i train my ass out, is pretty useless, i have to be able to break though the MI so i can get the needed mana and stand a chance against fighters,

 

another idea...

make mana use of spells more lvl. depended, so a strong mage use more mana for defencive spells and less of offencive.

 

I think the balance between mage and fighter has to become more even with the strong wheapons, and maybe armour should have more use then it has already against magic (dunno how it is atm tho)

[agis29]

Magic immunity should last 10 seconds the most.

I proposed Spell Reflection as a new spell something that would benefit pure mages and low level chars.

Anyway the way that el is now, magic immunity should remain the way it is.

The truth is that Mages, Priests, Buffers can't be part of el at the moment.

Unless new spells and armors with magic resistance will be added to the game and only if there were 2 at least special schools-npc's to train players .

One for fighters and one for casters.

[Zeddicul]

Magic immunity should last 10 seconds the most.

I proposed Spell Reflection as a new spell something that would benefit pure mages and low level chars.

Anyway the way that el is now, magic immunity should remain the way it is.

The truth is that Mages, Priests, Buffers can't be part of el at the moment.

Unless new spells and armors with magic resistance will be added to the game and only if there were 2 at least special schools-npc's to train players .

One for fighters and one for casters.

 

 

atm the whole game is build around a/d players/fighters/trainers.

Why can't somebody decide himself how he wants to train/fight?

 

Suggestion: to benefid all the a/d ppl that are so dam afraid of mages (more than for a JSoC or OSoMN) put some critters wich have mana at the monster spawns so they also can train magic a bit (ie put some spiders at the goblins spawns or make mor places like the one with the L.spider/PW/armed orc)

Or maybe to try and reveal more PK put spiders on pk maps

[conavar]

Maybe mag immun shouldn't be totally removed. But as i am not a strong mage (only top 200) i feel i belong to the stronger. Forcing mages to put pp into nexus is plain stupid

 

Fighters have to put pp's into human nexus so why shouldnt it be the same for mage's and magic nexus ?

 

(and before ppl think im only thinking of myself. Im only magic 56 so the last formula I suggested would royally screw me)

 

 

 

@ Zeddicul

 

PPl are not afraid of mages for if MI was changed like some people wish ,then a pure mage class would still be at a big disadvantage against a higher a/der with a little less magic level, they can harm/drain you as well and have the bonus of hitting a mage hard with a sword

 

what most people are saying ( well those who know what they are on about ) is that without proper thought, any change will just over balance PK in favour of the high a/ders who by the nature of there a/d training have a very high magic level, it will broaden the gap not level it up

Edited May 29, 2008 by conavar

[Sayre]

Can someone give me a good reason why there SHOULD be a level playing field?

 

No, not why it would be good to have a level playing field....why there SHOULD be.

 

S.

[korrode]

Because the more level it is, more active PK is... the more rostos that get poofed, the more armor that gets broken, the more fun we have, the more bricks for radu.

 

Edited May 29, 2008 by Korrode

[conavar]

Can someone give me a good reason why there SHOULD be a level playing field?

 

No, not why it would be good to have a level playing field....why there SHOULD be.

 

S.

 

Totally agree that the playing field shouldnt be 100% level but I am against ideas that get a great big fooking digger and unlevel it even more

Edited May 29, 2008 by conavar