Magic Immune

[Aislinn]

Taken from the homepage:

 

Eternal Lands has no fixed classes or professions, so you can always do new things and develop new skills without having to create a new character!

 

Until this viewpoint changes there will be no classes in EL, and for it to change there would need to be massive rework of pretty much everything in the game.

Well I for one hope this viewpoint never changes, that is one of the things that drew me in and kept me in EL. I would hate to be forced to choose, and to make people choose in the beginning before they have a clue is stupid imo, and why I don't play those other games.

[conavar]

Taken from the homepage:

 

Eternal Lands has no fixed classes or professions, so you can always do new things and develop new skills without having to create a new character!

 

Until this viewpoint changes there will be no classes in EL, and for it to change there would need to be massive rework of pretty much everything in the game.

Well I for one hope this viewpoint never changes, that is one of the things that drew me in and kept me in EL. I would hate to be forced to choose, and to make people choose in the beginning before they have a clue is stupid imo, and why I don't play those other games.

 

IMO for any classes to be introduced to EL this view point doesnt need to be changed, depending on how it is worked the game would be the same as it is now But with the option to specialize if a player wanted

 

Eg: A Mage class:

 

Any player gets bonuses to their spells for every point of magic nexus over 10:

So for example at magic nexus 11 a player would get 1% chance to bypass an opponents magic immunity, 1% increase in healing,harm and mana drain spell power, and then 2% at nexus 12 etc etc etc. (up to a capped max if need be)

 

Now to balance it out so we dont have the problem we had before the cap (with pickpoint buyers dominating) and to make a mage class differant from the normal EL mage/fighter. Imo it would need a system where if your Magic Nexus was over 10 then you couldnt raise Human nexus over 4 (would suggest moving the Arti cape to Magic nexus)

 

It could also be used to make a fighter class: for each point of human nexus over 10 the player gets 1% chance to body pierce (as the perk), 1% extra chance to crit hit, 1% extra damage ( if Human was over 10, magic couldnt be raised over 6 ( to allow for crafting etc) )

 

Or a Ranger class (any nexus could be used apart from Human,magic) for each point over 10, an extra 1% to damage,accuracy etc etc ( if range nexus is over 10 then Human cannot be over 5 and magic over 10 )

 

note: Im not saying all the maths are right or perfect (someone will have a better system) but any idea such as this one, Doesnt force players to choose a class But they can if they want. If people want to play EL as it is now then this wouldnt stop them

Edited May 28, 2008 by conavar

[Schmurk]

As for altering magic immune I would lean towards the fact that it is left as is (to restore still works, this is you channeling magic through your body so would't need to pass through the "shield" you created around yourself) but it is altered so that a pure mage class (and therefore a stronger mage) would have a large chance to penetrate through the shield. Don't know how, of it it's even possible but it makes most sense to me. Maybe a higher magic nexus increases the chance, as well as allowing access to better spells. This would mean whilst fighters could heal themselves, they would be in trouble if they came across a pure mage, who could break through their magic immunity.

I totally agree on this one.

 

Actually, if you look at the close combat system, it's balanced using the a/d of the opponents and some attributes like dexterity, reaction, might and toughness. For ranging, it's the same thing, your change to hit your target is balanced by several attributes. But for magic, AFAIK, your chance to hit your opponent is not balanced by any attributes.

 

I think the best way would be that your chance to bypass the magical protection of your opponent should be balanced by magic, ethereality and rationality. This way, someone who would really become a mage would have to put a lot of pps in reasoning, will and vitality and would have a chance to bypass the protection of strongest fighters.

 

The nexus way could also work but I think that some rich players would be able to put as much pps as they want in the nexus to keep an advantage against their opponent. So the only way to create a real gap would be to make a difference on characters builds, i.e. on attributes.

[conavar]

I think the best way would be that your chance to bypass the magical protection of your opponent should be balanced by magic, ethereality and rationality. This way, someone who would really become a mage would have to put a lot of pps in reasoning, will and vitality and would have a chance to bypass the protection of strongest fighters.

 

The nexus way could also work but I think that some rich players would be able to put as much pps as they want in the nexus to keep an advantage against their opponent. So the only way to create a real gap would be to make a difference on characters builds, i.e. on attributes.

 

You would end up with players buying pp for will,reasoning and vitality so it wouldnt really make much differance, unless you had a forced cap of say only 3 attributes allowed over 30 (which might suck for some people who have bought alot of hydro pp's for attributes)

Edited May 28, 2008 by conavar

[Schmurk]

Well the difference between 10 nexus points and more than 100 attributes points is huge!

You also need nexus removal stones for attributes points...

 

EDIT: typo

Edited May 28, 2008 by Schmurk

[LeoI]

As for altering magic immune I would lean towards the fact that it is left as is (to restore still works, this is you channeling magic through your body so would't need to pass through the "shield" you created around yourself) but it is altered so that a pure mage class (and therefore a stronger mage) would have a large chance to penetrate through the shield. Don't know how, of it it's even possible but it makes most sense to me. Maybe a higher magic nexus increases the chance, as well as allowing access to better spells. This would mean whilst fighters could heal themselves, they would be in trouble if they came across a pure mage, who could break through their magic immunity.

 

 

then what if instead of making you immune to positive spells like restore and shield it just reduced the strength of them?

Edited May 28, 2008 by LeoI

[kl4Uz]

I totally agree that spells should require magic nexus. Spells such as Heal and Remote Heal wouldn't require the nexus, however advanced spells would need quite some pp put into magic nexus, e.g. Restore, TPTPR = 2 magic nexus;Magic Immunity = 3 Magic Nexus etc.

 

It's a perfect solution:

 

a) High level fighters won't automatically be mages anymore. They will have to carefully think how much pp they can afford to put into this nexus

Magic will become a skill similar to the others, not only a supporting one, but one that you will carefully plan and level

[Wizzy]

Personaly I think magic immnuity should be a realtionship between magic level, rationilty (not 100% immune) as far as using nexus, it may be worth looking into.

[PriVate]

imo i dont think there should be classes, people should be able to do all skills and theres no fixed class this is what makes it less boring and more fun. if you could only havest or be a mage... how damn boring itll be. yeah and i agree its the no fix class that keeps me in the game if there were fixed class i would have been gone long ago

[Entropy]

How about this very simple solution:

While magic immunity is in effect, you have a 50% chance to fail any spell you cast?

[Dushan]

How about not 50% is way too much

[vytukas]

I would say, do not screw magic immunity please, if possible :S

If there would be a poll, I vote against

[Entropy]

How about not 50% is way too much

Well, initially I wanted 100%

People are right, that spell kind of makes magic useless in PvP.

[Dushan]

I would say, do not screw magic immunity please, if possible :S

If there would be a poll, I vote against

Yeah, I concur If MI gets changed, people would for sure pk less than they do now Leave it as it is now, maybe just increase the level required to cast a spell

 

Edit - and maybe make it use more mana or reduce the time it lasts, but please don't change anything else

Edited May 28, 2008 by Dushan

[groomsh]

I don't think they will PK less ... they will just find another tactic

[XaRondas]

its impossible to multi without magic immunity , u will get pwned before u enter a multi map, mana drained or killed w/out the possibility to cast restore

 

there is a need for stronger spells if u want a mage class imo , something to help the mage be strong in game

 

something like a positive perk ... less mana needed or bypass MI spells of others

 

imho i think that implementing something like that, will affect mostly a/d trainors/pkers and won t create a mage class

[vytukas]

Personally I'm not that much against the changes since I play EL very rarely now anyway (just busy in RL).

 

But I suggest sticking to the principle "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".

Is PK inactive because of magic immunity? I doubt.

Are fights boring and more magic would spice them up? Again I doubt, negative spells are a pretty plain thing to do, just an essence sink. Buy some EMPs, essences and keep clicking mana drain, harm, poison etc.

 

I don't like the idea of separate mage class in EL.

I don't pretend to be a super clever game designer, maybe these changes may eventually make the game better.

But this would require many more changes than this. All fighters are automatically high level mages, so if you want make a mage class you need to prevent this. Otherwise these changes would only change common combat practices, like all fighters would know what spells to cast often and it would become a routine. All fighters gain high levels because restore gives good magic xp. Change that? or implement some nexus system for magic *cough*?

 

The magic system has already undergone significant change by making spells dependent on rationality, but do you sincerely believe it improved the game? All fighters just take a bit more reasoning to workaround this. Other builds like tank build with full phys/coord/vit are automatically discouraged. Like before, there are a few "good" builds that all people take, not much diversity.

 

Again, I'm no prophet, if you have a clear vision how the game can be improved, go ahead. I remember the introduction of cooldowns and how players opposed it. But later it turned out to be step forward.

[Lorlen]

Again, I'm no prophet, if you have a clear vision how the game can be improved, go ahead. I remember the introduction of cooldowns and how players opposed it. But later it turned out to be step forward.

 

Debatable

[vytukas]

Debatable

 

debatable for combat cooldowns I agree

 

 

But I meant manufacturing cooldowns and food system, that I believe was a clear improvement. Before all people just used fruit.

[conavar]

How about not 50% is way too much

Well, initially I wanted 100%

People are right, that spell kind of makes magic useless in PvP.

 

Is it the spells fault or the classless systems ?

 

In most generic RPG's fighters are strong in combat weak in magic and mages vice versa ( the mage class imo has never been a 1 v 1 class but a support one ), but being classless makes it so a fighter can also be strong in magic and making the spells fail 25%, 50% or 100% will not change that, the strong fighter/mage will just be a little stronger compared to everyone else, and imo will lead to shorter fights.

As soon as your restore fails then thats it diss/tele = shorter fights = less items break and less rost's lost.

 

Edit: If you want to reduce the power of the magic immune spell, instead of just saying 50% fail and thats it, IMO you need a system that lets players over time through training protect themselves, and that should be done with magic level:

 

Ie: Magic Immunity doesnt stop offensive spells completly but only reduces the damage by the players magic level, so if a high level fighter/mage has a harm of 100 dmg and casts it at a player with level 50 magic, the dmg isnt totally stopped but reduced by 50 , at least this way players can train there way out of trouble and still gives those with high magic an advantage.

(could also be based on differant formula including will,vit etc but thats just a basic example).

 

 

2nd edit: removed mana drain, should only really work with harm/poison, as fights would be too short with mana always being drained

Edited May 28, 2008 by conavar

[kl4Uz]

What about this: If your magic nexus is 5 then your spells have a 75% chance of breaking the opponents magic immunity.

[conavar]

What about this: If your magic nexus is 5 then your spells have a 75% chance of breaking the opponents magic immunity.

 

Magic nexus of 5 is to easy to get.and 75%

[Entropy]

It's not about a class system, as much as it is that people do not want changes that would add some balance to it.

[anima]

what about the chance to successfully cast magic immune is lowered by 20%, i.e if you have have over 57magic(i thinks thats the number) you will fail MI 20% of the time, this means its up to your opponent to keep track and know when to try a mana drain since there is a 20% there will be a 2 second window in which offensive spells can be cast. i think this will give offensive magic more use but stop it being overpowered. the 20% figure could be anything, maybe even 50% but i really have no idea what it should be.

 

i realise i know nothing about pk, just coming up with a suggestion

[conavar]

It's not about a class system, as much as it is that people do not want changes that would add some balance to it.

 

Im all in favour of balance, as some of my suggestions in this thread for MI will state, but balance for who ? people who dont PK ? , I cant see any PKer's saying MI is over balanced and their the ones who suffer from it being so called "over powered".

 

Just throwing out numbers of 50% chance for spells to fail witn MI isnt really contructive to PK , anything like that would IMO do more harm than good.

 

If people come up with a sensible way to change it, then thats fine by me

 

and we can all make suggestions to balance the game in our favour, I hate summoning so really all summons should have 50% chance to attack their summoner.