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deneochris

Your opinion on ranging.

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I was thinking, since this skill is quite new, It would be best to get opinions on the skill.

 

I think the poll would not for this is because people have more then one opinion.

 

But this is mine.

 

From the sound of ranging (never done it, but wanting too) it sounds like, when the damage of ranging increases, there will be archer noobs. Thats my negetive opinion, but my positive opinion is that this opens up way more, how can I say this, more situations. PK for excample ever been in a fight with a mage, you have mage protection... do you have ranged?

 

I got too go now but I'd like to see other opinions.

 

Happy Ranging! :P

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Well my opinion is that range isn't the best (probably cause i suck at ranging)

But when it first came out it was awesome.

 

I just want to see more towers to range from in invasions .

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Thats a good idea daiske (I was thinking all last night about more) and that did not cross my mind.

 

Whie I was thinking I got this idea, well it completes the battle triangle (if any) Mage beat Melee, melee beat range, range beat mage.

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It's hard and costly to train.. But I guess that with the right equipment and level you can do some serious damage ;)

I'm looking forward to the ranging future

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Im not sure a ranger could ever beat a mele fighter on his own ( unless of course the ranger also had high a/d )

 

But as Entropy pointed out when ranging first came into existence, a group of 10 Rangers maybe more all working together would be pretty formidible. If they all hit thier target and dealt 40-50 damage the person would be instantly dead wouldnt they?

 

Saying that, they would all have to have nice high ranging stats because from my own experience , having ranging level 20 I still miss alot.

 

Rangers will have to be either in big groups , or protected by Mele fighters in a PK situation. Would be good to see some sort of event in a PK area where theres lots of space for rangers to take the high ground. But im not a PKer so I dont really know of a place.

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Thats a good idea daiske (I was thinking all last night about more) and that did not cross my mind.

 

Whie I was thinking I got this idea, well it completes the battle triangle (if any) Mage beat Melee, melee beat range, range beat mage.

 

That triangle only works in runescape. Here it is Melee fighter beats Mage, Melee fighter beats ranger, Ranger and Mage die.

 

Besides, it seems mage and ranger are the same thing. Even more, mage is better than ranger because mages do not miss, and do not need an expensive bow.

 

I agree with Ateh, the only situation where ranging could be useful is to mana burn/cooldown/mana deplete fighters in PK, while an allie fighter fights them

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Ranging is useful during invasions, as a support for the fighter bashing high level monster. This have been proven a number of times, and is a real fun to do, even for n00b archers.

 

I'm strongly against making towers for rangers to use during invasions if these would be inaccessible/hardly accessible for monsters. Rangers should not be privileged in any way, they should just watch their steps and fight smart :)

 

Apart from that the skill is a huge gold sink and very tiresome to train. Overall exp gain is patethic, rougly 4k exp per hour in mid 20's (at least for me). This is the skill for very persevere people, getting to high levels would require millions of gc spent for training arrows/bolts and thousands of training hours as well. Definitely not for those with EL ADHD ... :)

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I'm strongly against making towers for rangers to use during invasions if these would be inaccessible/hardly accessible for monsters. Rangers should not be privileged in any way, they should just watch their steps and fight smart :)

 

Hmm, I agree to that rangers shouldn't be privileged, but I have had a huge problem with being 'smart' during the last invasion I took part ranging. it isn't so much of a problem with 'normal' Creatures, but with very large like Giants and Dragons I wasn't able to estimate the distance right, so I died some deaths being attacked after going one step closer because it says 'too far' before, or beause the monster was out of the range I could see it.

 

Towers or other high places aren't that much of a privilege, cause you have a very small range of the map and perhaps no monster in shooting distance.

 

But, before setting up new towers, it would be nice, if the existing places wold be usable .... places like the town walls of Portland for example, where there is a landing, but nothing to access, also not teleportable.

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...skill is a huge gold sink...

 

That completely describes ranging imho, nothing else.

Yes, obviously :) It was designed that way, it's supposed to be that way. I don't understand how people could have missed that and have been crying about it on forums (not necessarily in this thread).

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The point is a gold sink is effective as long as you find your gold well spent. In case of ranging it starts to become questionable, the cost outweights the benefits, some people who initially bought tonnes of training arrows give up and sell them to get at least a part of money back. I'm sure there will be a narrow group of archery fans who eventually will reach high levels, but I'd bet vast majority will abandon ranging somewhere in mid 20's.

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Moneysink did its job when ranging got introduced. We were all trapped in buying 10gc arrows.

 

I doubt the moneysink still works that good now, so time to make arrows 1gc and let people have fun, instead of clicking fricking flowers everytime you want to buy new arrows.

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I personally love ranging and it has become my favorite skill since it came out. I haven't heard it used in PK alot which im kind of disappointed about, because a group of 10 melee fighters and a 2-4 archers could be pretty dangerous. So until archery takes to PK ill just stick with cyclops;)

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I have to agree with Cruella I to think that archery is going to end up in the hands of a small group of well advanced players who didnt mind spening fortunes on training arrows.

 

I enjoy archery and although im not desperate to attain high levels in a short space of time, its something I will keep doing for the long run , my only advice to people is dont bother keeping a tab on how much GC youve spent on it because seriously, to start looking towards the 40s in archery your probably looking at hundreds of thousands of GC in training arrows.

 

Oh and BTW , if anyone wants a PVP partner for training archery PM me in game id be more than happy to stand at close range and get peppered if you are willing to do the same :)

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...skill is a huge gold sink...

 

That completely describes ranging imho, nothing else.

Yes, obviously ;) It was designed that way, it's supposed to be that way. I don't understand how people could have missed that and have been crying about it on forums (not necessarily in this thread).

Why is it supposed to be that way? Tailoring is supposed to be that way, not ranging.

 

 

The point is a gold sink is effective as long as you find your gold well spent. In case of ranging it starts to become questionable, the cost outweights the benefits, some people who initially bought tonnes of training arrows give up and sell them to get at least a part of money back. I'm sure there will be a narrow group of archery fans who eventually will reach high levels, but I'd bet vast majority will abandon ranging somewhere in mid 20's.

I abandoned it at level 28. Spent a lot of gc, which I regret now.

 

Moneysink did its job when ranging got introduced. We were all trapped in buying 10gc arrows.

 

I doubt the moneysink still works that good now, so time to make arrows 1gc and let people have fun, instead of clicking fricking flowers everytime you want to buy new arrows.

But maybe not 1gc, but they should be much cheaper... and I agree, I doubt it's still an effective money sink.

 

I personally love ranging and it has become my favorite skill since it came out. I haven't heard it used in PK alot which im kind of disappointed about, because a group of 10 melee fighters and a 2-4 archers could be pretty dangerous. So until archery takes to PK ill just stick with cyclops;)

It's sad to see a skill with so much potential become something practically useless.

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It's sad to see a skill with so much potential become something practically useless.

 

I agree heu, I think ranging should become more usefull. Not too usefull so it dominates. But hey, thats why I think there should be a battle triangle.

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...skill is a huge gold sink...

 

That completely describes ranging imho, nothing else.

Yes, obviously :) It was designed that way, it's supposed to be that way. I don't understand how people could have missed that and have been crying about it on forums (not necessarily in this thread).

Why is it supposed to be that way? Tailoring is supposed to be that way, not ranging.

You mean, there can be only one skill that's supposed to be a money sink? :rolleyes: Or did anybody miss

The bows/crossbows are in the game for 2 days now, and from all the gold-sinks ever implemented by me, they are the best.
from Entropy's blog?

People will keep carrying their money to NPCs to buy things essential for leveling a skill that produces one item that's remotely useful (or is there anything besides the Cape of No More Warlock in tailoring that does anything?) and people will continue to level ranging as well (and you can kill stuff, yell 'headshot' etc. :D). Under these considerations ranging is already much more useful than tailoring. And being able to kill any monster in game from a safe distance is pretty neat I'd say ;)

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And being able to kill any monster in game from a safe distance is pretty neat I'd say ;)

 

Sure, sure ... how many arrows it takes to kill an icy ? :D And who will pay the bill ? :rolleyes::)

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And being able to kill any monster in game from a safe distance is pretty neat I'd say ;)

 

Sure, sure ... how many arrows it takes to kill an icy ? :D And who will pay the bill ? :rolleyes::)

And your point is?

It's not that you have to kill ice dragons or anything with bow and arrows.

And of course it's expensive, the skill is a money sink, by design. :)

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And your point is?

 

My point remains unchanged

 

The point is a gold sink is effective as long as you find your gold well spent. In case of ranging it starts to become questionable, the cost outweights the benefits, some people who initially bought tonnes of training arrows give up and sell them to get at least a part of money back. I'm sure there will be a narrow group of archery fans who eventually will reach high levels, but I'd bet vast majority will abandon ranging somewhere in mid 20's.

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For me ranging is not a money sink. Surely i spend thousands of gc on it but i also gain (harvest blue lups + animal parts) thousands of gc. If i didn't range i wouldn't have done that. This is not the problem of the skill.

 

For me the problem is you don't get more xp when you level up. You continue to get the same xp because xp is based on difficulty. If you go for more xp you miss more so at the end it's worse. This is no big deal in the lower levels but noone will never get to level 100 unless something gets changed. Lets say you do 1k ran xp per hour and train 10 hours a day ... you'll need 12 years :P

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And your point is?

 

My point remains unchanged

 

The point is a gold sink is effective as long as you find your gold well spent. In case of ranging it starts to become questionable, the cost outweights the benefits, some people who initially bought tonnes of training arrows give up and sell them to get at least a part of money back. I'm sure there will be a narrow group of archery fans who eventually will reach high levels, but I'd bet vast majority will abandon ranging somewhere in mid 20's.

So, what you're really saying is, that you don't want to spend money you don't have on ranging? And with your previous post you wanted to say what then? That I shouldn't either? That even though the skill was advertised as a money sink, that it was said killing things with ranging would never be as cheap as in close combat even before the skill was implemented it now should somehow be turned into a profit making skill at low levels?

Did you train tailoring or was it more obvious with tailoring that it's a money sink?

Are you using "schools" by the way?

 

"A narrow group": yes obviously, a money sink targets players that have money, people that for one reason or another can afford to "waste" their money and that enjoy in this case ranging. As long as parts of this group take money out of the game, the money sink is working and changing the price for training arrows won't change anything because if players are not willing to spend money on a money sink they won't. If a ranging level costs you 100k at level X or at level Y=X+x I don't think it changes anything fundamental.

 

@Kibora: 1k ranging exp/hour? I've seen a similar number above already, but you seriously can make much more without any special tricks or do you account your harvesting time in that?

I see the experience problem (but level 100 goal is out of question at this point), but it's similar to the magic skill (just hitting home earlier), so levels will simply be lower than in other skills.

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So, what you're really saying is, that you don't want to spend money you don't have on ranging?

 

And with your previous post you wanted to say what then?

 

That I shouldn't either?

 

That even though the skill was advertised as a money sink, that it was said killing things with ranging would never be as cheap as in close combat even before the skill was implemented it now should somehow be turned into a profit making skill at low levels?

 

Did you train tailoring or was it more obvious with tailoring that it's a money sink?

 

Are you using "schools" by the way?

 

"A narrow group": yes obviously, a money sink targets players that have money, people that for one reason or another can afford to "waste" their money and that enjoy in this case ranging. As long as parts of this group take money out of the game, the money sink is working and changing the price for training arrows won't change anything because if players are not willing to spend money on a money sink they won't. If a ranging level costs you 100k at level X or at level Y=X+x I don't think it changes anything fundamental.

 

ad. 1 Why do you assume I have no money ? :P And why do you assume I do not spend money on arrows?

 

ad. 2 See the post title - I'm answering the question asked

 

ad. 3 Why? Am I your mom to tell you what you should do and what you should not? I'm concluding the fact majority of players who started to train archery gradually stop doing that, that's it.

 

ad. 4 I was talking about benefits, not a profit, which are two different things

 

ad. 5 No, my tailoring skill is ZERO at it will stay this way

 

ad. 6 Yes, why ? My impression is again that you do not distinguish between a profit and a benefit.

 

ad. 7 The more players money sink attracts the more effective it is.

 

Finally, cool down. I respect your right to disagree, I'm open to discussion, but let's keep it relaxed. An author of this post wants opinions on ranging, so he is getting them. Yours, and mine, and other's. Do not turn it into personal debate.

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ad. 1 Why do you assume I have no money ? :hug: And why do you assume I do not spend money on arrows?

 

ad. 2 See the post title - I'm answering the question asked

 

ad. 3 Why? Am I your mom to tell you what you should do and what you should not? I'm concluding the fact majority of players who started to train archery gradually stop doing that, that's it.

 

ad. 4 I was talking about benefits, not a profit, which are two different things

 

ad. 5 No, my tailoring skill is ZERO at it will stay this way

 

ad. 6 Yes, why ? My impression is again that you do not distinguish between a profit and a benefit.

 

ad. 7 The more players money sink attracts the more effective it is.

 

Finally, cool down. I respect your right to disagree, I'm open to discussion, but let's keep it relaxed. An author of this post wants opinions on ranging, so he is getting them. Yours, and mine, and other's. Do not turn it into personal debate.

Well, in case you hadn't noticed, I was merely stating my opinion as well. I just fail to see how questioning the price of killing an ice dragon by bow and arrows adds anything that wasn't already known etc. but then I should have remembered to not feed the trolls I guess :)

#1/#2: As for your points: since you can only speak for yourself you must be one of the people you claim to represent here, thus it's safe to assume you don't feel like spending more money on ranging.

#3 no, that's what I am saying :P Show me that majority of players and by the way there are other skills that players stop leveling... but then let me conclude that there will always be a good number of players that will level ranging.

#4 I pointed out one of the benefits: kill any monster in game from a safe distance. You decided to ask about profit, now you say you didn't?

#6 Because in schools you decide to pay the full cost of an item for double exp, instead of possibly making a profit and thus keep on leveling. The benefit is experience for the cost of the ingredients and food, with ranging the benefit is experience, the price is 10gc per arrow. You can reduce the cost by shooting AI targets and getting their drops but experience will be much slower (say it will take at least twice as long?).

#7 1 player leveling to a high level beats 10 players giving up in mid 20ies because of the experience problem any day.

:)

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Time is passing by fast and it verifies all crap we write on the forums ;-)

 

Let's wait then a couple of months and see how ranging will develop.

 

As other posters said (and I share this opinion) this skill will need to be slightly changed in a future since in a current form it is not using a full potential it posseses. By the way, it is quite selfish to represent only yourself in any public debate, I believe it is possible to present a common opinion heard from others, even if one is not following their beliefs and actions fully ;-)

 

Money sink function in my opinion should be always an added benefit and not a main goal by itself. While ranging ranks highly here, it's "playability" value can be greatly improved. If that happens, money sink function will enhance automatically. Slightly more bang for your bucks is needed here, that's what several people are trying to say, and I second that.

 

Peace and happy ranging ;-)

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