mrfancypants Report post Posted August 22, 2008 YES! and a place other than WS square would be great, beings it takes so long to get to ingame name satan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bkc56 Report post Posted August 22, 2008 I think Ent has sort of already decided on the "if" question.radu: I don't know about bots, if people want them, sureI realize it's perhaps a bit ambiguous out of-context (I should have been more clear), but Radu was talking about if individuals want bots then he'll happy to accept their paypal payment. He didn't tell me to post a poll or I would have done that. I also sent him the link to my post in case I stated something wrong that needed to be corrected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Segor Report post Posted August 22, 2008 I think Ent has sort of already decided on the "if" question.radu: I don't know about bots, if people want them, sureI realize it's perhaps a bit ambiguous out of-context (I should have been more clear), but Radu was talking about if individuals want bots then he'll happy to accept their paypal payment. He didn't tell me to post a poll or I would have done that. I also sent him the link to my post in case I stated something wrong that needed to be corrected. yeah the context was very poor, very true. specially because it led us to a useless discussion about bots, as you already have your's working there. nice of you. tyvm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
handyman Report post Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) I realize it's perhaps a bit ambiguous out of-context (I should have been more clear), but Radu was talking about if individuals want bots then he'll happy to accept their paypal payment. He didn't tell me to post a poll or I would have done that. I also sent him the link to my post in case I stated something wrong that needed to be corrected. Now i am confused (scatches head) Bots : At the begining of the game i thought it was decided that we would not have any Bots in the game as time go's on they might be needed and this would change. But we have always voted on any changes over here And this being an important one needs a Vote but Radu was talking about if individuals want bots then he'll happy to accept their paypal payment. He didn't tell me to post a poll What do you do forum pm him or ring him up every 5 minutes ??? With out a poll i say a big NO to Bots is to big a step for an Individual to ring up Radu and try to get a Bot in trough the back door If the majority dont want them then they are no to be put in to action at the present time We will only find this out by a poll What will be next Radu selling Binding stone to people behind our backs (was not ment as a chance to slagg you oh great and glorious Ent) but more to make a point Handy Edited August 22, 2008 by handyman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chosen Report post Posted August 22, 2008 Rename this server: Main Server 2. No to the Bots idea, pointless. Server dosn't have a big enouh player base to even start considering having bots on the server. All it will do now is give people less reason to start, because this server is turning into what main is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
handyman Report post Posted August 22, 2008 WTF! just got of forums and logged on to find a trade bot on PK Server So there is a Back door to This game Sorry Radu but this is well out of order And i dont care if you Ban me for that dont think i will be playing much any more It was good well it lasted guys (take this as a strop if you want guy idc) im out of here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chosen Report post Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) #Edit - I don't like the idea of having a Bot on this server. Cya Handy. Edited August 22, 2008 by Liquid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woo Report post Posted August 22, 2008 So you gave tourself a self appointment to be servers ambassador? well you shhhh'ed me and told me dont worry about the invasion token question i left my guild just to kill you and did BKC56. now i will be relentless in it dont ever speak for me./ and if i can i will try amd get every guild allied with you to cancel that alliance. self rightous punk better make yourself some good armor Gambit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arte Report post Posted August 22, 2008 I probably missed alot of history on the pkserver, but i feel this is getting way out of hand. I didn't want to respond here at first, but when people begin calling other people names, i feel it is time to do so. I am not sure what some people have in mind, but a democracy on a pkserver doesn't sound like something that will ever work. At first it might have worked, to get the server going, but now, with new people joining, new people leaving, old people re-joining and old people leaving, there is no way we can decide about all things by a vote. I think we would be stuck having a vote on what to vote on if we did Further more there is only one person that decides what happens here, wether we like that or not and that is Ent. If one person (in this case Bkc) asks Ent something and Ent says it is ok, i don't see why this is going through a backdoor, it is not that Bkc kept it a secret. Wether you like it or not, bots (in this case) would happen, because people/guilds want a bot, like Handy said as well. About everything being buyable, it was and always will be, this game is for a part about making money. People on the pkserver know this very well, because most of them payed the 5$ to play there, several payed alot more to get a bunch of alts there and/or items for their char(s). Both bots and alts are there to make a profit, i don't really see the difference. Guys, this isn't a pissingcontest (excuse my language), this is a game where things are buyable, where people are pk-able, where people can agree or disagree, where people wine and people have fun, learn to live with it and enjoy it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted August 22, 2008 Ok, I was under the impression that people actually wanted bots on the PK server, that's what BKC told me. Make a poll, and if more people disagree with it, I will remove it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
handyman Report post Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) Im with you Gambit Bkc56 IMO should now be outlaw No1 (public ememy N01) He has allied himself with just about every guild and trained in secret his guild was ment to be a mixer guild supplying us all with stuff but all he has got is a free rein of the server. (good bit of flair) Not a Happy Handyman Edited August 22, 2008 by handyman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted August 22, 2008 Well, if the person to blame is Radu, then have fun, the bot will stay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulB Report post Posted August 22, 2008 WTF! just got of forums and logged on to find a trade bot on PK Server So there is a Back door to This game Sorry Radu but this is well out of order And i dont care if you Ban me for that dont think i will be playing much any more It was good well it lasted guys (take this as a strop if you want guy idc) im out of here You like to say that its others is the reason why people quit the PK server.. Here is all the proof you need to see its you and your couple of friends who think they can dictate what goes on in the PK server which is why I quit. Im glad you want to quit but I fear it wont last anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
handyman Report post Posted August 22, 2008 More gobbing off PaulB how off topic can you get my point exactly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulB Report post Posted August 22, 2008 More gobbing off PaulB how off topic can you get my point exactly Not gobbing off lol. I just find it funny that you actually think you have say over all the others that paid their $5 too. Really if you want to dictate what others say and do why not go join Sadam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigshock28 Report post Posted August 22, 2008 Ummm miss 3 days and the PK server goes to hell? If someone could fill me in on what bkc did, and who's bot it is that would be great. On-topic: I don't really like the idea of bots on this server but they are more useful then guild NPCs. 1 bot per guild limit sounds good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bkc56 Report post Posted August 22, 2008 Well this has gotten way out of hand. For those who may be interested, I'll give my side of the story. When the PK server started, Entropy defined rules, one of which read: 7. Merchant bots are not allowed for the time being, but this might change in the future. Community bots, such as Gossip are allowed, but need to be approved. [emphasis mine]. I searched the entire PK forum history and was not able to find any other vote or decision about bots. This thread is the only real discussion, with Handy being the strongest proponent for trade bots. So when Entropy changed his mind, I posted about it first (so everyone would know), then started leveling a new character. As to my talking to Entropy, it seems I'm one of few willing to take the heat for asking stupid questions. Believe me, I have some very colorful language (and a few ban threats) in my chat_log.txt file from discussion with him. And yes, I bring him some topics we discuss on @1 hoping to improve the server. And believe me, my in-game PMs to him are very rare and far between as he is easily annoyed (at least with me). ...well you shhhh'ed me and told me dont worry about the invasion token question ...Gambit Everyone has known about the Invasion Token question for a long time, and the fact that we have gotten no definitive answer from Entropy; we had to wait and see what he would do when he next visited. So we waited. In the mean time, you wanted some quick cash and offered your tokens for sale. I bought them hoping Entropy would in fact buy them later (if not, I was out the cash). We both had the same information. You took the quick cash and I took a risk. We both won. Well, if the person to blame is Radu, then have fun, the bot will stay.I don't need the world mad at me. If the server really votes down sales-bots, then I'll shut him down. If I can't get my $100 back, perhaps I can get some items on main (I've always wanted a hood). Bkc56 IMO should now be outlaw No1 (public ememy N01) He has allied himself with just about every guild and trained in secret his guild was ment to be a mixer guild supplying us all with stuff but all he has got is a free rein of the server.This really moves into the zone of total falsehood. We have some NAP/Allies, it only makes sense for a supplier guild. I've never trained in secret, I've publicaly announced levels (none of this "level up" stuff) and been very up-front about why I train (for invasions and to not be such an easy target). But I'm still an easy kill to any of the trained PKers on the server. I don't PK anyone (even the ants). Granted, SPAM only has two active members right now, but we supply what we can and my manu mixing services have always been available to everyone. If there's something secret or dishonorable in there it will need to be explained to me. As far as I can see, there are two basic points being made here (in all the other clutter): 1. We never voted on bots; Entropy made the no-bots rule then changed it. Valid point and as I said, if Entropy changes the rule again then so be it. 2. People are perhaps upset that a supplier guild is the first to have a sales bot, taking less than 24 hours from the rule change to the bot's blessing. I can't argue with that. I worked very hard yesterday to make it happen. I never thought I needed to wait since the rule change was made and posted. If I had waited, someone else would have been first (which might have been good since they would be taking the heat). Anyway, I'm sorry for all the unrest this has caused, it was not my intent. I hope that most people who know me know I'm a strong supporter of EL and the server and do what I can to make it more fun for everyone involved. But given all the anger here, I do expect a really good turn out for this weekend's kill-kaldoon-kontest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigshock28 Report post Posted August 22, 2008 Well spoken bkc. And handy although he is stronger then all of the new players on the server, anyone with training can kill him (i know his levels for instance and have no doubt mango could) and it's not like he keeps any weapons and armors he makes and uses them to kill newbies and stalk low level spawns like someone we know *cough* Prohibited *cough*. Just my 2 cents, Mango/Ryosuke on PK (If this post gets deleted, I'll understand why.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sywren Report post Posted August 22, 2008 I don't believe that bkc was intentionally trying to undermine anyone. He saw an opportunity, and he took it. As the person who regularly talks to radu about issues over here that needs resolving, it only makes sense that he would also be the first one to talk to him about getting a bot, but only after the conversation came up here and only after radu agreed publicly. Handy, you're not going anywhere. OK, so it went down without a vote and was a bit of a shock, but in the end, we're just going to chalk this one up to growing pains. You are too valuable to the community (and the guild I love) to disappear over timing/bad communication. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Segor Report post Posted August 22, 2008 If one person (in this case Bkc) asks Ent something and Ent says it is ok, i don't see whythis is going through a backdoor, it is not that Bkc kept it a secret. Ok, I was under the impression that people actually wanted bots on the PK server, that's what BKC told me.Make a poll, and if more people disagree with it, I will remove it. I don't believe at any point anyone questioned the fact that Ent makes the decisions for the game, on all servers. Nevertheless, on this server people got used to participating actively on it's implementation and new changes. For those who read this post from the moment it was created it's easy to know that we have people with opposing opinions and that is what took people to think about a voting on this issue. Unfortunately, resulting in this situation, the decision took place during a conversation that lacked full contextualization. I'm not happy with it either, but because I was opposing bots from day one and now they will soon be more than players during certain hours of the day. The only good thing out of this will be some more funding for the server maintenance. OFFTOPIC More gobbing off PaulB how off topic can you get my point exactly Not gobbing off lol. I just find it funny that you actually think you have say over all the others that paid their $5 too. Really if you want to dictate what others say and do why not go join Sadam. Even though i am one of the people that would set up a trade bot on here I still believe it should be the people that play the game which make the decision so maybe a vote is needed whether or not to have trade bots on this server if it ends up the answer is no bots then I am happy with that If you want to write something why don't you write a mail? At least read the full post before replying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bkc56 Report post Posted August 23, 2008 Well, true to form, I've screwed up yet again. It was Entropy's intent that we run a poll or something after he gave his approval for bots. When I said I had posted (and gave him the link) he assumed it was some sort of poll or call for consensus. I guess he assumed it went really fast since I paid for the char/blessing that same night and asked for placement approval and blessing the next day. But he feels I mislead (lied) to him. I should have asked more questions to make sure I understood his statement. If desired, I can take the bot down until the poll is officially closed (not sure when that will be). I think I'll focus more on just playing and less on the other stuff. I apologize for the mess this has caused. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chosen Report post Posted August 23, 2008 If you want a bot bkc, put it in a PK area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bkc56 Report post Posted August 23, 2008 If you want a bot bkc, put it in a PK area.That could be interesting, but it would require a few changes that I doubt Entopy would approve: 1. I would need a merger of my guard-bot code from main into the sales-bot code so it would know how to defend itself (this is more of technical issue than approval). 2. Entropy would need to suspend all restrictions on aggressive bot behavior, that is, treat the map he's on like a guild map on main. He would need to be free to defend, attack previous attackers, and chase people down if they try to run away. 3. He would need to be placed such that people can safely trade with him (so new/weak players don't get killed) but so that attackers can't take one or two steps and be safe. That probably means standing in a PK area, and moving to a safe area to trade. 4. Suspend bot training rules. He would have to get magic 49 (minimum), and get a bunch of OAs for boosting will, perception, etc. 5. And one you may not like: the bot would have to be on a permanent NDD. No one would bother with a bot if they could loose all their investment. So, interesting idea, but I don't imagine it will happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chosen Report post Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) Just code it so he only attacks after being attacked.. #Edit - And ROFL @ #5, that was the whole fucking point, so you have a Bot but there is some risk of having it. One reason I hate Bot owners, want all the benifits without any loss. The bot in PK means you have the Bot but if it dies you loose items, your loss for having the Bot, this would make those who don't want them on the server. (Me and like 7-8 others.) wouldn't mind having them there. Edited August 23, 2008 by Liquid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bkc56 Report post Posted August 23, 2008 How about a 1 in 10 chance that when you trade with a sales-bot he attacks and kills you instead. I'm sure that would help the economy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites