Is this fair?

[Guest zoxe42]

I'm a new player of EL, and I was looking around in the Valley of the Dwarves to see what flowers are harvestable. I ate some fruit, and changed my cursor to "use" and I clicked on a flower in a pond in the most northern part of the map. I got teleported in a new area and before i could realize what happened i got a warning (from what later I found to be a bot belonging to a pk guild), tried to switch the map to get out but it was too late . I got killed by the guard bot.

 

I tried to find out what happened and this is the chat log:

 

Nilerin found a bag of gold, getting 9 gold coins

You're in the hideout of Corpus Opis

Warning! You just entered a PKing map! This means other players can attack you!

corpus: zoxe42! Begone, fly you fool, or die by mine own hand!

You were killed by corpus

zoxe42's death certificate has just been signed..

You have died and gone to the Underworld!

[PM to corpus: dude what happened?]

[PM from corpus: Thanks, your message has been passed to guild chat. For more commands, use $help.]

[PM from Zerth: ?]

[PM to Zerth: i was killed by a guy called corpus]

[PM from Zerth: Ok?]

[PM from Zerth: You should have listend to it.]

[PM from Zerth: It told you "Zoxe42, begon fly you fool or die by my own hand"]

[PM from Zerth: Learn to read.]

[PM to Zerth: i got teleported to a place and before i could tele out he killed me]

[PM from Zerth: Lies.]

[PM to Zerth: nope, i lost a harvesting cloack and a pick axe]

[PM from Zerth: good.]

[PM to Zerth: what is that place ?]

[PM from Zerth: The Corpus Opis Guild map.]

[PM from Zerth: guarded by a bot who can kill the strongest warrior in the game in 1 hit.]

[PM from Zerth: Best stay out of it.]

[PM to Zerth: how can i get my stuff back?]

[PM from Zerth: You dont.]

[PM from Zerth: you didnt listen to it, you die.]

[PM from Zerth: it gives fair warning and 6 seconds]

[PM to Zerth: i didn,t have time to go back]

[PM from Zerth: yes you did.]

[PM from Zerth: there is plenty of time]

[PM to Zerth: dude this is not fair to new players]

[PM from Zerth: O well]

[PM from Zerth: good luck earning a new cape.]

[PM to Zerth: dute at least you should have a danger warning before entering there ]

[PM from Zerth: It does.]

[PM from Zerth: 'zoxe42, begon fly you fool or die by my own hand' I say again, learn to read.]

[PM to Zerth: a new player may not have enoough time to exit]

[PM from Zerth: o well:(]

[PM from Zerth: if you're new enough not to know how to click a door you shouldnt have an exc cape]

[PM from Zerth: You shouldnt go around clicking flowers. ]

[PM to Zerth: i got that message but i couldn't figure where to click]

[PM from Zerth: doors tend to go places.]

[PM to Zerth: there is no entry in the manual that ckicling on flowers can get a noob killed]

[PM from Zerth: nope there isint:)]

[PM from Zerth: Why did you click the flower?]

[PM from Zerth: You cant harvest flowers by using them]

[PM to Zerth: I'm a new player who got accidentally killed and you are sarcastic]

You were healed by Katze_1

You were healed by Katze_1

[PM from Zerth: k you got killed, what do you want from me?]

[PM to Zerth: the cursor remained changenged because i just ate some fruits]

[PM from Zerth: k you got killed, what do you want from me?]

[PM to Zerth: how can i get my cloack back/]

[PM from Zerth: no]

[PM to Zerth: ?]

[PM from Zerth: no, its the oposite of yes]

 

 

I did some reading and found out what is a guard bot etc etc. I have nothing against that a guild guarding its territory , but I really don't think that having a guard bot killing newbies with little warning is very fair (not withstanding Zerth's sarcasm)

 

Lol I thought initially Corpus is another player and I wanted to ask him what was that place

 

I believe that such an innocent concealment of the entry in an area patrolled by a powerful guard bot is not very fair for newbies.

[LabRat]

meh Agneum would pwn it except they're best mates

 

sorry about your loss, although I am not 100% convinced you happened to click on that exact one of a number of that flower in the area purely by chance.

 

Corpus is only doing his job, newb or not.

 

off topic: I thought bots needed 10 seconds warning delay not 6?

[Lorlen]

Haha, never really thought of this, but it is unfair.

 

New player comes along, likes exploring. In nice safe votd, next thing in a pk map with guardbot no warning given before entering... dead.

 

I imagine the usual "carefull when exploring, don't carry stuff you can't afford to lose" argument will be posted, but it's still abit lame for new players ^^

[Zerth]

I was just making up a number when i said 6, no idea what it is was trying to get him to leave me alone.

[Shujral]

I find it a bit hard to believe that someone 'stumbled' upon a guild map...sorry, just my standpoint

[LabRat]

Haha, never really thought of this, but it is unfair.

 

New player comes along, likes exploring. In nice safe votd, next thing in a pk map with guardbot no warning given before entering... dead.

 

I imagine the usual "carefull when exploring, don't carry stuff you can't afford to lose" argument will be posted, but it's still abit lame for new players ^^

VOTD safe? never clicked on the gold mine or the temple then? or been afk when the chimmies show up?

[Lorlen]

VOTD is safe, would you go into the dark cave or large forbidding doors? Would you try to harvest a flower?

 

Good thing most explorers use their brains ;/

Edited May 16, 2008 by Lorlen

[eagleprince]

Since your #guild_info says you are peaceful harvesters, you should show some mercy on a newb harvester who may have been leveling to join your guild.

 

You should consider encouraging him by returning his excavator

[Rith]

i dont think you should give him back his cloak, 6 seconds is plenty of time to get out of the map and its not your fault if he found the map by accident, its suppose to be a secret

[DrtySouth]

Hmmm,well is a sad thing,u did not know but it happens to all at one point,i own a map and bot in votd it rox

[peino]

meh Agneum would pwn it except they're best mates

 

sorry about your loss, although I am not 100% convinced you happened to click on that exact one of a number of that flower in the area purely by chance.

 

Corpus is only doing his job, newb or not.

 

off topic: I thought bots needed 10 seconds warning delay not 6?

 

I find it a bit hard to believe that someone 'stumbled' upon a guild map...sorry, just my standpoint

It's completely possible to stumble into a guild map by accident if you are exploring because EL hides secrets in innocent objects. The game encourages explorers to click on random objects. On rare occasions a random object will turn out to be a guild map entrance. I've stumbled into guild maps by accident twice, and been killed by a guard bot once.

 

I don't know how long the warning delay is supposed to be, but it can feel like a shit-load less than 10 seconds. When I accidentally stumbled into PkG's map, I read the entrance message, tried to click on the cave arch behind me to get out, and was killed before I could click.

 

I agree that it is hard on new players when guild entrances are hidden in the kinds of objects that look like they might be harvestable or useable, or are similar to the kinds of objects in which the game hides secrets we're supposed to look for by clicking. But as far as I know, it's perfectly legal, making guild maps an in-game hazard -- basically just death traps. We can just mark our maps so we don't fall into the same trap twice.

[robotbob]

On bots kill delay, I believe its 15 seconds, at least that is the number I set my bot code to.

I believe PkG and *CO*s maps have been in el for so long, you are immediately confronted by the bot(s). In our

map you reach a safe area, just like IRON's map. In this area we give plenty of warning that if you continue, you

will die (however It doesn't say by what). Then if you enter, you get the "leave now or die" message. So you

have to be determined to enter the map and die, also requiring a special use item limits, these 'accidentally clicked while

exploring mistakes'.

 

Unfortunately saying "well its the price you pay for exploring" doesn't quite balance here since

"poking a flower in a pond" equals death.

 

I do believe nearly the whole game has died making that mistake in the first few months of play, so perhaps is now an EL right of passage.

 

Edit:

 

Just saw this as I submitted.

 

lol u got killed by corpus lmao

 

Read:

2. As always, nonsense posts, spam, off-topic, "lol"'s and name-calling posts will be deleted.

Edited May 17, 2008 by robotbob

[Chosen]

I believe PkG and *CO*s maps have been in el for so long, you are immediately confronted by the bot(s). In our

map you reach a safe area, just like IRON's map.

Our map does give you 15 seconds the first time you enter it, after that its 6, or 10. I'm not sure which. We don't have a safe area either, the whole damn thing is PK.

 

Our map is also in votd btw. ^^

[Guest zoxe42]

OK. I think it's time for closing arguments.

 

First I would like to thank to everyone who took time to express their opinion on this subject, including PriVate because being a noob who clicks on a flower and gets killed by a powerful guard bot is well ... kind of funny afterall.

 

Secondly, Zerth was kind enough to contact me in private, apologized for what could have been perceived as unwarranted sarcasm, and took time to explain that he cannot return the excavator cape since he is not the owner of the bot, but he offered to talk to other guild members to arrange for the return of the cape. I declined, because I got another one already and well ... things happen. No hard feelings about the incident.

 

But my initial point remains. If Corpus Opis is a guild of peaceful harvesters my guess is they probably wouldn't take pride in having a powerful guard bot who slays unlucky noobs clicking on flowers. I don't know if the warning time was 6 or 10 seconds ( and I don't intend to enter again their map just to check it ) but definitely it was not enough for me and probably would not be enough for a lot of new players.

 

I don't know if I'm the first one killed by Corpus just for clicking the wrong flower with the wrong cursor, butfor sure I'm not the last one .

 

So my suggestion would be to make easier for the accidental inexperienced intruder to survive: a safe spot immediately near the entrance, or a slightly longer delay time, or a clear warning before entering for non guild members, I don't know what would work better ... anyway that's just my opinion.

Edited May 18, 2008 by zoxe42

[Jezebelle]

May I express my respect to this new citizen of our World?

 

Instead of the usual wining and begging of the average newcomer, this Zoxe42 tells us his experience and how it affected him.

He didnt ask for his lost goods back, but suggest a way to make newcomers feel less disencouraged, when a simulair thing happens to them.

 

I remember feeling overwhelmed with all the words at my screen when I took my first steps here, and still, from time to time, I make a new char to experience the feeling of newcomers; the chat, the hints, the server messages, it can be too muvh to follow. Add with all that the stress of ending up in a weird map with a guard bot (does he look as fringhtning as I imagine, btw??) well.I can imagine that would get confusing and then those few seconds is not enough to respond.

 

A solution could be to not have guard bots attack those with low stats..or, alow lowers stats a longer time to escape..

 

Again, Zoxe, I take my (newly made) hat of for you, you could be an example to all newcomers!

 

JezeBelle

[Shujral]

As far as I can see he DID ask for his items back, and continued to ask for them after he was clearly told no.

[robotbob]

May I express my respect to this new citizen of our World?

 

Instead of the usual wining and begging of the average newcomer, this Zoxe42 tells us his experience and how it affected him.

He didnt ask for his lost goods back, but suggest a way to make newcomers feel less disencouraged, when a simulair thing happens to them.

 

I remember feeling overwhelmed with all the words at my screen when I took my first steps here, and still, from time to time, I make a new char to experience the feeling of newcomers; the chat, the hints, the server messages, it can be too muvh to follow. Add with all that the stress of ending up in a weird map with a guard bot (does he look as fringhtning as I imagine, btw??) well.I can imagine that would get confusing and then those few seconds is not enough to respond.

 

A solution could be to not have guard bots attack those with low stats..or, alow lowers stats a longer time to escape..

 

Again, Zoxe, I take my (newly made) hat of for you, you could be an example to all newcomers!

 

JezeBelle

 

No, then everyone makes a guild map exploring\spy alt to roam guild maps.

[Guest zoxe42]

A solution could be to not have guard bots attack those with low stats..or, alow lowers stats a longer time to escape..

 

No, then everyone makes a guild map exploring\spy alt to roam guild maps.

 

Jezebelle thank you for your kind words.

 

Robotbob, in my explorations, today, I was teleported to another wonderful place where I got the following message:

 

You have entered the realm of the PK Godz. If you are unwelcomed, death awaits you.

Warning! You just entered a PKing map! This means other players can attack you!

PoOkS: Sorry, only PkG and her allies are permitted to pass. If you take one step or do not leave within 15 seconds you will be PKed!

 

 

There was enough time for me to leave the map, there was a proper warning and:

 

1) One does not enter the PkG map just by clicking on a flower with the wrong cursor.

2) PkG is clearly not a guild of "peaceful harvesters"

 

My point was that if one has a map that can be entered by clicking on a flower in a populated safe area, at least there should be a slightly longer delay time or a safe spot near the entrance, as you well said before, just to give the accidental noob intruder a good chance to escape.

 

Anyway, I don't think I have anything else to say on this subject.

[Khalai]

2) PkG is clearly not a guild of "peaceful harvesters"

 

In case, you didn't get it right. *CO* aka peaceful harvesters is a joke based on pure irony