Attacking PK'ers/PvP/FFers - Outlawry?

[robotbob]

Players who kill other players for no reason other than to take their stuff are outlaws.

When i go to the store i don't expect to get jacked, even if i have to walk through the hood.

 

"Spawn serping" is far from an outlawish act but people cry about it in the forum too.

Now the topic of the forum doesn't make any sense, just delete it all together (no more whining)

 

Well your real life example doesn't have any relation to this game.

Unless your real life store, is designated a 'citizen killing area'

[Ateh]

your not allowed to call it an outlaw act anymore Korrode , its too offensive. You'll have to come up with a less offensive way to say '' fking idiot '' now.

[korrode]

So your effectively saying that all PK'ers are 'fking idiots'?

 

...might seem like i'm putting words in your mouth, but really im not... throughout this thread you've argued for the existing Outlaws forum model, and with the existing model people are posted in Outlaws simply for PK'ing.

[popeye]

I see the name's been changed to Whiner's forum. Couldn't you change it to Bitch and Moan Corner? Just a thought.

[Ateh]

So your effectively saying that all PK'ers are 'fking idiots'?

 

...might seem like i'm putting words in your mouth, but really im not... throughout this thread you've argued for the existing Outlaws forum model, and with the existing model people are posted in Outlaws simply for PK'ing.

 

no i didnt mean that all PKers are fking idiots at all, I was simply refering to the fact that were not allowed to use the word outlaws anymore, and in fact I agree that most if not all PK related Outlaw posts are pretty much worthless because they are all the same.

 

''I went into PK and got killed - its not fair ''

 

Actually yes , it is fair , completely fair and totally a part of the game. But I dont believe that the Outlaws forum should be called the Whiners forum because sometimes there useful stuff in there man, scamming , bjing etc

 

*edit* if I had thought all PKers are fking idiots would I have donated st00f to some of your Organised PK tournaments

Edited May 14, 2008 by Ateh

[nathanstenzel]

Breaking agreed rules of PVP or interfering with PVP = outlaw.

Attacking someone without warning = outlaw.

Atacking someone after giving them fair warning = hostile, but perhaps not bad enough to call an outlaw.

 

My oppinion on naming the Outlaws Forum the Whiner's Forum:

One thing is for sure, the pkers who want to complain about being called an outlaw can shut the smeg up or have everyone else point their fingers at them and say "and you are a whiner too".

It is a little offensive, but it is better than hearing a bunch of people complain about you warning others about a pker. I have had to get my forum thread locked by my request because it turned into a debate about morals on PK and if I had the right to warn others about a killer and thief.

 

If you don't want people to compare EL PKing to killing people in real life, how about this.....lets compare it to wild animals in real life. Most animals would warn you before they attack.

 

Underworld Ya about PKer's shutting the smeg up on the now called Whiner's Forum Section!

[korrode]

But I dont believe that the Outlaws forum should be called the Whiners forum because sometimes there useful stuff in there man, scamming , bjing etc

Fair point.

Though i maybe even encouraged when Aisy mentioned the idea to rename it , a more neutral name would be proper... as Aislinn said, it's been done to make a point, it'll no doubt be changed.

 

*edit* if I had thought all PKers are fking idiots would I have donated st00f to some of your Organised PK tournaments

Ya ya fair point

 

--------------------

 

Attacking someone without warning = outlaw.

 

Just because you're a 'peaceful mixer' who doesn't engage in the lethal PvP combat aspects of the game, doesn't make everyone who does an outlaw... i mean come on, we even have a pk points system where people are ranked highly for more kills.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Korrode

[anima]

1.going against your word is being an outlaw.

 

2.killing a player in a 'player killing' is not being an outlaw, unless it conflicts with 1.

 

i would hope anyone could see the diffrence between these two things.

 

as for spawn serping i think it is outlawish, but its a far more murky situation.

Edited May 14, 2008 by anima

[robotbob]

Breaking agreed rules of PVP or interfering with PVP = outlaw.

Attacking someone without warning = outlaw.

 

Ok again, "Hello stranger, may I partake in combat with you?"

 

Atacking someone after giving them fair warning = hostile, but perhaps not bad enough to call an outlaw.

Oh Noes! The fact the map is a player kill map & a pker formally asked , bowed and tip his hat, still makes it

"perhaps not bad enough" ?

 

My oppinion on naming the Outlaws Forum the Whiner's Forum:

One thing is for sure, the pkers who want to complain about being called an outlaw can shut the smeg up or have everyone else point their fingers at them and say "and you are a whiner too".

It is a little offensive, but it is better than hearing a bunch of people complain about you warning others about a pker. I have had to get my forum thread locked by my request because it turned into a debate about morals on PK and if I had the right to warn others about a killer and thief.

 

If you don't want people to compare EL PKing to killing people in real life, how about this.....lets compare it to wild animals in real life. Most animals would warn you before they attack.

 

Underworld Ya about PKer's shutting the smeg up on the now called Whiner's Forum Section!

 

Really, the cougar stalking me at night, will say , "Hello stranger, may I partake in combat with you?" before or after it eats my face?

 

Edit: here is a informational video link of a

warning some prey to death Edited May 14, 2008 by robotbob

[nathanstenzel]

<CLIP>

Attacking someone without warning = outlaw.

 

Just because you're a 'peaceful mixer' who doesn't engage in the lethal PvP combat aspects of the game, doesn't make everyone who does an outlaw... i mean come on, we even have a pk points system where people are ranked highly for more kills.

Korrode, the thread starter asked for my oppinion and I gave it. Please stop debating other people's oppinions just because you don't like them.

Edited May 14, 2008 by nathanstenzel

[conavar]

Attacking someone without warning = outlaw.

 

Just because you're a 'peaceful mixer' who doesn't engage in the lethal PvP combat aspects of the game, doesn't make everyone who does an outlaw... i mean come on, we even have a pk points system where people are ranked highly for more kills.

 

Well that is easily settled Korrode.

 

I PK from time to time and I might attack people on a PK map .... warning given ... job done

[boognish]

IMO, If anything, spawn serping is the most outlaw thing a player can do, as unlike every single other thing ever posted in Outlaws, no amount of intelligence or changing of your game-play style can stop a person from doing it to you.

If someone shows up and spawn serps me, there is absolutely nothing i could have done different to prevent it from happening.

 

Where as being PK'd, or bagjumped, or scammed could all be prevented by either more cautious (and perhaps that means slower) playing method or intelligence.

 

edit:typos :S

 

 

The idea is you are stealing my stuff that i worked for, instead of stealing something that you don't even have yet nor will ever own.

There's plenty you can do, go find another spawn or pvp with someone.

 

btw the cheatah thinks you're dinner, he doesn't want your armor and essence

Edited May 14, 2008 by boognish

[sora_barzahd]

My view is that there should be no rules in war, and that it's a game, so I therefore do not care.

If I see you on a PK map and you are weaker, I'll PK you. If your PVPing and someone dies, I'll jump their death bag. If I felt like following the rules of a fickle community, I wouldn't be playing a game :\

[korrode]

@nathanstenzel

lol if you dont want your opinions countered, dont post them on a public forum.

 

--------------------

 

The idea is you are stealing my stuff that i worked for, instead of stealing something that you don't even have yet nor will ever own.

I don't support a person taking a bag they didn't create (with obvious exceptions, animal db's on IP, etc.), so we effectively agree there.

In PK i create the bag when i kill someone, as as far as i'm concerned the person agreed to hand me thir stuff if they die the second they chose to enter a PK map.

 

There's plenty you can do, go find another spawn or pvp with someone.

That'd be after the fact, there's nothing that can be done to prevent it from happening in the first place.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Korrode

[boognish]

Unless your real life store, is designated a 'citizen killing area'

 

You should come visit sometime.

[Entropy]

That may indeed be the case, Entropy.. I'll be the first one to admit that, as a newbie, I'm far from an expert on the game culture.. However, I am certain that a number of players may view things through a slightly different lens. Now, not to be questioning the interpretation of the dude who *built* the game, but just for the sake of discourse, I can see one particular problem in that notion, mainly that there are inherently other reasons for going into a PK map. Some items are *only* harvestable in pk maps, and thus people *could*, theoretically, have reasons for being in one other than PK.. kinda takes the "implicit" out of it, after a fashion.

Well, obviously, everyone has a different point of view on this very issue. Each point of view is very subjective, but in this particular case there are mainly two 'schools of thought':

1. If you enter in a PK map, for whatever reason, you can't complain if you get PKed, because as the name implies, a PK map allows (and in some circumstances even encourages) PKing. This view point is the official view point, and most of the PKers or even fighters support it.

2. PKing map is a place where people should be nice to everyone and politely ask if they can attack other people. If they get attack without their explicit consent, they go and whine about how this or that player is so bad.

 

Breaking agreed rules of PVP or interfering with PVP = outlaw.

What. The. Fuck???

Why should someone NOT interfere with PVPing? Is PVPing some sort of noble and sacrosanct activity or something?

 

Attacking someone without warning = outlaw.

ROFLMAO?

 

Atacking someone after giving them fair warning = hostile, but perhaps not bad enough to call an outlaw.

What kind of world are you living in?? It's a PK map, FFS! It's like going into a box ring and complaining you get punched!

[nathanstenzel]

Hey. This is what I believe, Entropy.

 

And yes, PVP can be quite honorable.

 

Wow. You sure cuss alot, man.

[Norm]

The fact of the matter is this- most maps are safe. If you got to a pk map/arena you do it for a reason, either resources or easy pvp exp. And lets not forget the handy red warning that u can be attacked by other players.

 

If you don't want to die in pk, simple, just never go to pk map. Or, better yet, why not change the game so no one dies, we can all just afk harv and have a chat-fest. Then, change the game so we don't have to harv, just type what we want, and poof, there it is. If that is really what you want, why not just play tetris.

 

Some of the same people posting "outlaws" are out on ndd day fighting with everyone else, they just don't have the stones to do it for real.

 

 

 

edit- I don't mean rosto stones

Edited May 14, 2008 by Normtide

[LevinMage]

Maybe everyone should take a look at the first 6 pages of the outlaw section and see who created the posts since I doubt even one of you wouldn't find an outlaw post created by one of your friends and maybe even you.

 

In general, many of the posts in the outlaw section are appropriate as described by the subtitle of the former OUTLAW game topic Scammers, bag stealers, troublemakers, no-good doers! Criminals! Most wanted lists, post them here! AFAIK this has always been a place where the community can read and learn about others who have broken "community rules" so they can be wary of, or take action against them. There will always be change, and it is not surprising that the "community rules" have changed for many players (especially long time players) so it is easy to see why they feel that many of the posts in the outlaw section are insignificant, bullshit, or whatever.

 

However, this doesn't take away from the fact that many of the posts are still legitimate and do list people who have broken rules that most of us consider to be outlaw behavior. While someone may be a complete idiot getting scammed out of 200k, a password, or items, it doesn't change the fact that the person who did it is a complete ass. And I really do like to know these asses so I can pk them when I have the opportunity, and for others to be on their guard around them. I understand that people get frustrated reading the outlaw posts, especially for those of us who's job it is to read them and have to see the same bullshit day after day. I much prefer the old Outlaw topic name compared to "whiners," even if someone does post me in there b/c I damn sure know that some of the people who posted are not whiners (look at people who created posts on pages 1-6 again) and who given me ample warning about people.

(edited for grammar- with corrected spelling ;p )

Edited May 14, 2008 by LevinMage

[Entropy]

It's grammar, not grammer, yes?

Anyway, the renaming was temporary in scope and it was meant as satire.

With this said, we are going to change the rules a little bit so only some types of behaviour will be legitimate for that forum (such as scamming).

[Aislinn]

Also "Outlaws" is not the best choice for a title, since:

1. The definition itself is fuzzy.

2. People have varied opinons (right or wrong) of what that definition is.

3. It implies that the official stance is that these things are bad since the word and it's definitions refer to "laws", and obviously far too many have taken that assumption to heart.

 

I can't really think of anything other than scamming that would fall into "bad" territory.

PK is covered to death here.

Bagjumping is a grey area at best. Bags were not meant to be safe or used as storage, they are used at risk, we all know the risk, and because we choose to take it and get teleported off by a harvest event or die of toadstool poisoning...again nobody forced you to use a bag. Since bags are INTENTIONALLY not labeled, I'm not sure I consider it "bad" for somebody to take stuff from one.

 

I guess we'll mull it over tonight...

 

And yes, for all of you who didn't read the thread before posting, or "missed it", I did change the name temporarily, not as a permanent choice I take full responsibility for that, and again...no offense was intended in the manner to which some of you took it. Don't blame ent and say he doesn't give a fuck about the community, that simply is not true and besides, he had nothing to do with this If you want to think that about me, feel free. As always, I can't please all of the people all of the time, so in the end I will call it as I see it. At least that way I can live with myself, be it in a game or in real life.

 

It was an interesting experiment indeed.

[nathanstenzel]

Also "Outlaws" is not the best choice for a title, since:

1. The definition itself is fuzzy.

2. People have varied opinons (right or wrong) of what that definition is.

3. It implies that the official stance is that these things are bad since the word and it's definitions refer to "laws", and obviously far too many have taken that assumption to heart.

<clip>

 

Would it be all that stupid of an idea to call it something like "Neighborhood Watch"?

Or perhaps "Community Warning Notices"?

It may be totally lame sounding, but I don't think anyone could take offense and it clearly says that it is a place to post about things that you think others should be aware of for their own good.

[korrode]

Good name suggestions Nathan, but remember Ent has said that there will be rules on what kind of thing can be posted, it wont be 'post if you feel someones ebul' ...and if it is and ppl are still posted simply for PK'ing, ima start posting ppl who bitch in PM/#ig after getting pwned :>

[nathanstenzel]

Good name suggestions Nathan, but remember Ent has said that there will be rules on what kind of thing can be posted, it wont be 'post if you feel someones ebul' ...and if it is and ppl are still posted simply for PK'ing, ima start posting ppl who bitch in PM/#ig after getting pwned :>

As usual, he didn't specify any details. I guess it will be a wait and see scenario.

For the current (disagreed) trend of posting in outlaws, it should work and remove some bickering.

Heaven only knows how appropriate it will be for the rules he specifies or what those rules will be.

[korrode]

Well, my suggestion would be, that u can only post for being PK'ed if you were only PK'ed as a result of trickery and/or lies... which is effectively scamming as far as i can see.

 

EDIT: One key thing i would suggest, is changing the description of the forum to include specifics, it currently reads:

"Scammers, bag stealers, troublemakers, no-good doers! Criminals! Most wanted lists, post them here!"

 

It's my personal opinion that it should read:

"Scammers, bag jumpers, spawn stealers, indiscriminate BRoD'ers... post them here!"

 

It perhaps sounds very clinical and specific, but imo it should be specific.

The 4 things i listed are what i personally consider to be outlaw behavior, working under the assumption that Ent is not going to allow posting simply for being PK'ed, does anyone think there's any further actions other than what i listed that should be considered 'evil/bad/whatever'?

Edited May 14, 2008 by Korrode