Attacking PK'ers/PvP/FFers - Outlawry?

[Sayre]

Ok firstly, I didn't make this a poll simply because I figure there are so many variations and nuances to how an attack in a PK environment can happen, that a poll would be too narrow.

 

This post is mostly due to the shift in Outlaws forum towards the posting of people for killing in a PK environment. I thought it would be interesting to gauge how the EL community sees the killing of PKers without warning, the killing of PvPers, PvPers killing their partner, people interfering in friendly fights, etc etc etc, and whether such acts constitute an act of outlawry.

 

Keep in mind this isn't really anything to do with EL rules, Outlaws forums are really more to do with when people fall outside of general community standards, whatever they are.

 

Please post your thoughts and views here.

 

S.

[Vanyel]

You enter a PK area on your own risk and for certain advantages. You may expect getting killed. Just like it.

Stop complaining "I got PKed in a PK area". It's silly.

[the_grud]

I dont PK...but we all know ,go into a pk area at your own risk...be prepared to DIE! Dont post if you get killed!

PVP etc... make your agreements before you start pvp,if u dont fool you.

If you make an agreement and your pvp partner breaks the agreement post him in OUTLAW

.Is it that simple or is it me thats nieve

 

the_grud

[Darwin2M]

You enter PK area, you should expect to be killed - bring rosto or else don't bring anything you can't afford to lose.

 

However, if you enter PK area with someone under a pre-arranged agreement (PvP, FF) and they break agreement, then post to outlaw as warning.

 

While you are fighting/training/etc., others attack to kill is fine (as long as not from same guild as opponent if pre-arranged agreement).

 

Personally - I don't trust anyone (except my guildies and allies) - so I always expect to be attacked. I'm pleasantly surprised (many times) when others don't attack but are friendly and try to return favor.

 

I'm not a PKer - just my thoughts.

[Chosen]

You enter a PK area on your own risk and for certain advantages. You may expect getting killed. Just like it.

Stop complaining "I got PKed in a PK area". It's silly.

I agree with Vanyel here.

 

A PK map is a PK map, you should expect to be PK'd.

[flexus]

well for me the word killing in player killing makes it clear for me, killing=outlaw...

if i start with pk some day, i see myself as an outlaw too...

a duell between 2 people is another thing tho, but if u att somebody w/o asking and kill him/her, it makes u an outlaw imo, cuz if killing somebody doesnt makes u an outlaw, what makes u an outlaw then???

 

Flex

 

EDIT: im not saying each pker deserves an outlaw post just because it would give too much spam and flamewars... but like others i think ppl that attack pvpers and ppl that dont stick to their pvp/ff rules need to be posted on forums to warn others.

and im not saying that pk is something bad, its part of the game and i like it, but due to this is a rpg, someone that is killing other players should be seen as outlaw...

but imo a rpg needs both sides ("good" and "evil")

Edited May 13, 2008 by flexus

[Drue]

I think that to a certain segment of the EL playerbase, PK itself is somewhat of an act of outlawry. By this statement I mean to differentiate PK from PvP, with PK involving ambush attacks, and PvP being of the "consensual dueling" variety.

 

From the standpoint of a "hypothetical society", I can certainly see a justification for this sort of thinking.. after all, unless a state of war or whatnot is declared, and the attacking force is a representative of one of the warring parties attacking a member of the opposing faction, almost any society would construe the attack as an "attempt at murder".. and thus relegate the attacker to the position of an "outlaw".

 

The same would be likely in terms of interference in a duel by a third party. Indeed, that sort of thing just isn't civil.

 

From my perspective, I don't like PK, but I don't have any issues whatsoever with PvP. I'm just not a "predatory" sort by nature. I recognize that many people have differing opinions, however, so I don't particularly mind the PK, as long as it stays in its designated areas.

 

If someone chooses to be a PKer, and gets PK'd without warning... too bad, so sad. If you live by the sword, you die by the sword, and I have no sympathy whatsoever to your plight. On the other hand, if you are a PvPer, and you are engaged in a friendly duel with someone, and get ambushed by someone interfering in the contest, I consider that an act of outlawry. It's just someone attempting a cheap shot, and being quite rude.

 

Beyond that sort of thing.. it's a pk area. Expect to die, or don't go in. That's how the rest of us do it...

[Aislinn]

On the other hand, if you are a PvPer, and you are engaged in a friendly duel with someone, and get ambushed by someone interfering in the contest, I consider that an act of outlawry. It's just someone attempting a cheap shot, and being quite rude.

This is what the map was made for. It is a game design for certain designated areas to enable this style of gameplay. How is it outlawry to utilize it?

PvP'ers gain a huge experience advantage in exchange for risk. Game design again. Claiming "no fair, you are an outlaw!!!" to try to negate the known intended risk for the advantage they are getting seems to be a way to get around the game design to me, I have no sympathies for THAT.

[korrode]

@Anyone who thinks "Player Killing" at all is Outlaw-ish in a game with an elaborate player-vs-player combat system (which can be utilized for lethal battles or exp gaining), many PK areas and resources that one must go through PK to get to... i have a link for you:

http://www.secondlife.com/

 

Player Killing has been a big component of this game from day 1 (afaik), calling it 'Outlaw' is as ridiculous as getting mad at someone who kills you while you're playing a first-person shooter.

 

 

PK areas are there specifically so you can kill players, i don't think attacking anyone any non-ally in any circumstance should be considered 'Outlaw'.

I personally will allow non-red/brown tagged players to have a 1 vs 1 "fair fight" if they want to, without intervening. IMO that makes me an ultra-nice guy

Edited May 13, 2008 by Korrode

[Cruella]

This post is mostly due to (...) the posting of people for killing in a PK environment.

 

Don't you see how ridiculous it is ?

 

It's like posting of people of not killing in a NON-PK maps

 

I'm not involved in pk at all, but I do not mind to be killed by anyone when I enter pk map. No reasoning or explanation required. Do not want to be killed - do not use pk maps, as simple as that.

[aoshi]

for me, only the part : killing your pvp partner is outlawish.. for the rest, its pk, unless you say you wouldn't interfere in the ff and u actually do, too bad my guild forbids killing pvpers

[korrode]

killing your pvp partner is outlawish..

That'd come under scamming i'd think.

[Vanyel]

killing your pvp partner is outlawish..

That'd come under scamming i'd think.

That'd come under 'accident'. Got killed like this many many times;P

 

Honestly, if one decides on any form of PvP with an unknown person and gets PKed, one deserves what one got. If you want to train do it with people you're sure of. If you want to friendly fight, do it with people you're sure of. If you go for friendly fight with a person you don't trust you're... well, you ask yourself to get PKed.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Vanyel

[Sayre]

Just to give a taste of the sort of things that have been popping up in Outlaws recently:

 

- Player A walks around PK and gets killed without warning by Player B

- Player A and Player B agree to pvp and get killed by Player C who wades in.

- Player A and Player B agree to pvp with certain equipment and Player B pulls out non-agreed to equipment

- Player A and Player B agree to a friendly fight and Player C from Player B's guild comes in and kills Player A

- Player A lures Player B into PK and kills them

- Player A lies to Player B about their stats and kills them

- Player A and B are friendly fighting, Player C agrees not to intervene, then does.

- Player A and B are friendly fighting and B kills A and doesn't return stuff after agreeing to do so.

- Player A walks around an area that is PK and is unaware of it and gets killed without a warning by Player B (thy Vanyel)

 

There is generally some disagreement as to whether any or all of these actions constitute outlawry. I am sure there are more i haven't thought of too.

 

S.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Spleenfeeder
Added offered scenarios

[Vanyel]

Just to give a taste of the sort of things that have been popping up in Outlaws recently:

 

- Player A walks around PK and gets killed without warning by Player B

- Player A and Player B agree to pvp and get killed by Player C who wades in.

- Player A and Player B agree to pvp with certain equipment and Player B pulls out non-agreed to equipment

- Player A and Player B agree to a friendly fight and Player C from Player B's guild comes in and kills Player A

- Player A lures Player B into PK and kills them

- Player A lies to Player B about their stats and kills them

- Player A and B are friendly fighting, Player C agrees not to intervene, then does.

- Player A and B are friendly fighting and B kills A and doesn't return stuff after agreeing to do so.

 

There is generally some disagreement as to whether any or all of these actions constitute outlawry. I am sure there are more i haven't thought of too.

 

S.

 

I'd add one more to the list.

- Player A walks around an area that is PK and is unaware of it and gets killed without a warning by Player B

[korrode]

- Player A and Player B agree to pvp with certain equipment and Player B pulls out non-agreed to equipment

- Player A lures Player B into PK and kills them

- Player A lies to Player B about their stats and kills them

Only these ones are even debatable, as trickery/lying is used.

 

...the rest are just EL, the game.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Korrode

[Aislinn]

- Player A and Player B agree to pvp with certain equipment and Player B pulls out non-agreed to equipment

- Player A lures Player B into PK and kills them

- Player A lies to Player B about their stats and kills them

Only these ones are even debatable, as trickery/lying is used.

Kind of like scamming, where is the line between scam and stupidity? If you go in with people you do not know, who's the fool? There has to be some degree of personal responsibility. *shrugs*

Don't trust people you do not know!

[Troger]

1st:

Nobody is forced to go in a pk map, or cave or arena, you go there by you will, and accept to lose some stuff or a rostogol stone.

2nd:

If you go there, you go there to explore(rare), to kill somebody, to get experience by fighting other player(pvp training) or to get to harvest some rare ingreedients. These are all advantages that the player takes, so if they have the right to use a pk map to get something so other players have the same right too(this could imply killing other players too)

3rd:

PK is PK, in wars there are no rules, there is no honesty, and everybody will remember only the winner, so in my eyes those who are whining and calling outlaws those player who killed them in pk, they are little cryovers.

[Hompf]

killing your pvp partner is outlawish..

That'd come under scamming i'd think.

That'd come under 'accident'. Got killed like this many many times;P

So if someone 'accidentally' pulls a thermal serp on you while pvping you don't complain?

 

To me pvpers should be left alone. If not: post outlaw. For all the other scenarios i agree that PK is PK and you shouldn't whine about it.

[Marr]

if you cry about pkers are outlaws because they killed you,

you should better run next time

 

the whole outlaw forum is only good for one thing: to have a good laugh,

i mean its kinda entertaining to watch all this ppl complaining about ebul

things others did to them.

 

btw: i think, I never asked some1 before i pked him

 

 

I'd say, lets burn teh ANTIS!

http://thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=60

[korrode]

Kind of like scamming, where is the line between scam and stupidity? If you go in with people you do not know, who's the fool? There has to be some degree of personal responsibility. *shrugs*

Oh i agree. I'm pretty sure i've made 1 outlaw thread in my whole time in EL, and it was posting a person who was spawn serping myself and others for no (apparent) reason... i'd be too embarrassed to post in Outlaws if i was stupid enough to get lured into PK and killed

[Dilly]

Ok, let me put it like this:

Outlaws forum is not only for the really black sheep in the game, it is a warning to others that may find themselves in similar situations.

More specifically, as i was involved in the event leading to the mentioned outlaws post, the person that attacked the pvper has been known to randomly attack pvpers, and perhaps other pvpers may like to be warned to avoid the same fate.

If outlaws isn't meant for that... then I wonder where we can warn other about things like this, because I think it would be usefull

 

Now, I agree with the fact that pk area is pk area and if someone decides to attack at will, he is just making full use of all the possibilities of the game.

 

BUT: As a low 70s a-d trainer, that is totally freaked out by PK because all 'Teh Pr0s' will kill me in just one hit, I can only laugh at those pr0's when they whine about PK being dead. And this whole discussion is one of the main reasons for that. I know for a fact that there are quite a few others in the game that share my thoughts on this: How on earth do you expect to get enough new people to join in on the fun to replace the higher ones that do leave the game, if all you do is bully them till they are so fed up or scared that they won't even go close to PK maps or arenas unless they really have to?

 

Just my thoughts... we all have the right to our own opinion fortunately :-D

[ohmygod]

I PK only enemies (red tagged guilds + some personal enemies who are in netural guild) though in last few months I'm not so fazed if I do or dont.

 

Any enemiy who are in a pk map is a legitimate target regardless of what they are doing.

 

To get a red tag a guild does something to me or my guildies that is considered impolite. Some ig's are exchanged to try and sort it out.

 

Sometimes people are just plain ignorant so we send an ig like as follows:

 

#ig <insert guild name> you are now red tagged enjoy!

 

Most times they will keep spamming us with ig's and seem to be rolling around laughing.

 

However 1-2 weeks later.......

 

#ig 300 why did you keep pking us? what did we do? It was xxxxx who did that and he's not on now.

 

REVENGE IS BEST SERVED COLD

 

outlaw act? not in my opinion..

 

[korrode]

How on earth do you expect to get enough new people to join in on the fun to replace the higher ones that do leave the game, if all you do is bully them till they are so fed up or scared that they won't even go close to PK maps or arenas unless they really have to?

By being ever vigilant in trying to convince Ent to make PK cheaper, one day i (/we, cause im not the only one) might succeed, then people wont be as afraid to die.

[Vanyel]

killing your pvp partner is outlawish..

That'd come under scamming i'd think.

That'd come under 'accident'. Got killed like this many many times;P

So if someone 'accidentally' pulls a thermal serp on you while pvping you don't complain?

 

To me pvpers should be left alone. If not: post outlaw. For all the other scenarios i agree that PK is PK and you shouldn't whine about it.

 

I do apologise for my unclear joke >.<

 

I do not see a single reason why PvPers should be left alone. It's completely illogic.

If PvPers are left alone, people exploring should be left alone too, people going to hydrogenium ore should be left too. If somebody attacks me I run and post I was killed while peaceful exploring the area... or rather peaceful harvesting.

PK is PK.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Vanyel