New Combat Level calculator

[Itzalan]

OK, 1st, TEH link.

Please, check the top box only, the bottom box is known as correct and as been used for years . The top box doesn't seem to work with most browsers, I still have to correct this

 

Here, I made a conbat level calculator all from my own... I'd just like you to tell what you think about it... I mean, it went out of my mind and most of you didn't even hear about my shadow so there's no way you can acknowledge my calculator

 

Soooo... Just tell me, does it look correct ? Yeah, I know... You can't tell without the formula... You can't tell about it anyway, we all know that... That's why I ask your opinion, because I can't tell myself either

 

Here is TEH formula (IKNOW formula is still in it ;p) : Reaction + Toughness + Dexterity + Matter *.5 + Attack * .75 + Defense'* .75 + (Rationality + '(magic * / 2) * .75 + (Charm + Ssummoning / 2) * .75 + (Perception + Ranging / 2) * .75)

 

Now, go for it, flame it, plx plx plx

[Vanyel]

I'm personally interested in the discussion in this topic. It seems that the proposed method of determining Combat Level covers all factors I am interested in (look here). It won't be used for the planned Thelinor event, yet, in case of any other team events I may want to use the one:)

[Aphistolas]

Looks good an all, but Firefox doesn't like it one bit :/ :

 

[korrode]

A lot of faith is automatically put in the original iknow combat level calculation as being an accurate measurement on a characters close quarters combat strength, due to it being very close to how EL itself calculates monster ignore levels.

 

It has also been trialled and tested fairly extensively. My experiences in events such as the ~LE~ CL based PK tournament showed it to be a reasonably accurate measurement of close quarters combat strength.

 

 

Your new 'overall' combat strength calculation cannot gain the automatic faith the iknow one did, as we have no way to confirm, or even conclude via testing, that EL/Entropy determines the strength of those additional skills in a similar way.

 

It's my personal opinion that your calculation for magic (Rationality + '(magic / 2)) is a fairly accurate measurement of magical strength, although, i'm less sure if each of the magical 'points' generated should equate to 0.75 points of overall CL calculation, but it looks like a good enough starting point

 

The summoning calculation, (Charm + (Summoning / 2)), i'm less sure of.

Higher summoning level allows you to summon stronger monsters and reduces your chance to fail, there's no way a person with summoning 10 but massive charm is as "strong" as someone with summoning 40 but very low charm.

You might wanna re-think this one... imo put more weight in summoning level and less weight in charm.

The same could be said for the magic calculation as well (i.e. higher level = stronger spells and less fails), but to a lesser degree, as rationality directly affects spell strength.

 

I cant comment on the ranging calculation as i have not done any ranging, and have no clue how dramatically perception affects it.

 

 

Good work on putting together a new calculation though, even if just as a starting point. Really, the only way we'll end up with a calculation thats reasonably accurate is through testing different calculations and adjusting based on the results.

 

 

EDIT: And yes, please test the site displays properly in popular browsers, such as Firefox

 

EDIT2:

Now, go for it, flame it, plx plx plx

kk well, gotta say, the fact you've gone with each 'point' from the added skills (magic/summoning/ranging) as being a 0.75 addition to the overall score seems very arbitrary . Someone with Summoning 70 and charm 4 who's going to summon multiple giants/dragons would warrant much more than a 56.5 increase.

Yet, tbh, i doubt it's possible to have one big calculation determine overall combat strength with any kind of accuracy, so it's not like i have an alternative recommendation.

Summoning especially is near on impossible to incorporate into an overall calculation.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Korrode

[Kaddy]

A new way to get our a/d's?

 

lol thats good

[Blodoks]

Summoning especially is near on impossible to incorporate into an overall calculation.

 

Yes, I agree.

The summoning it has sense from the level recommended for red dragon (80?)

 

Edit:

New CL 359.75

Old CL 259.25

Edited May 9, 2008 by Blodoks

[Vanyel]

A new way to get our a/d's?

 

lol thats good

 

Yes, it must be it.

 

Let's think. There is no box to put your name in, the calculator doesn't contact with any website. It doesn't look like it can gather any data about players, does it?

 

 

@summoning

Summoners are complaining they are forbidden to use their favourite skill and they are right. On the other hand free use of the skill may messed most of the team events up. If I am allowed people to use their summoning skill (NOT stones) in any of the events I run I have to know how to handle summoning and how to estimated its impact. From my point of view, summoning in a calculator is just a must-be.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Vanyel

[Itzalan]

Looks good an all, but Firefox doesn't like it one bit :/ :

It was working fine with the brower I use most of the time (konqueror) so I didn't check with others... Now, it's working with firefox too

Sorry

[korrode]

@summoning

Summoners are complaining they are forbidden to use their favourite skill and they are right. On the other hand free use of the skill may messed most of the team events up. If I am allowed people to use their summoning skill (NOT stones) in any of the events I run I have to know how to handle summoning and how to estimated its impact. From my point of view, summoning in a calculator is just a must-be.

I don't think summoning is comparable to close quarters combat, you'll never get a calculation because it's impossible to calculate.

 

Events like your Thelinor ones where groups are put together based on total combat level of the group (and upper limit determined by CL of each member) probably cannot have summoning included in the team strength calculation process. I get that people want summoning allowed, but as i said, it's impossible to use a calculation to achieve 'fair' teams (as far as i can tell anyways).

 

You could outright allow summoning, with any team members summoning level having no effect on CL... what you would have to consider is setting a limit on allowable summoned monsters based on allowed weapons and armor.

You cant allow giants and dragons if the best allowed weapon is a Ti serp, and best armor Iron plate.

 

Summons have massive attack and no defense, so the combat level of the fighters who will be engaging them is MUCH less important than when those fighters are engaging each other. The toughness/armor and damage inflicted of the summoned monster(s) VS the damage inflicted and absorbed by the allowed weapons and armors is much more relevant, that is were your comparison/calculation needs to be made. This would require in-depth knowledge of EL's creatures and equipment stats, and using that knowledge a chart would have to be made showing what summons should be allowed VS common allowed equipment combinations.

If such a chart is wanted and would be used, i'm happy to make one based on my knowledge and opinions, then post it up and get input from other fighters.

 

Also, I suggest running competitions that pit summoners against other summoners. Use a non-PK map and have the goal be to kill all your opponents summons with your summons. Whoever's summons are all dead first, loses.

Determining well matched opponents for an event such as this would be easy, it can simply be done based on summoning level.

I don't know if such events have been attempted before and failed or if there's some flaw i'm not seeing... please let me know if this is the case.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Korrode

[Chosen]

Looks good an all, but Firefox doesn't like it one bit :/ :

It was working fine with the brower I use most of the time (konqueror) so I didn't check with others... Now, it's working with firefox too

Sorry

Yes, it works now.

 

Thanks frenchy \o/

[Garnoo]

Nice job it works fine w/ firefox

[spellsword]

There's an issue, like if you have 0 ranging, it wont give you your CL, so you might wanna fix that for people with Zero ranging, it gives the messages "Type your attributes (Everything MUST be filled)" without giving your CL, so shouldn't be too hard to fix, just make it where it adds 0t o your combat lvl instead of not giving you an answer

[Sayre]

New calculator:

Your combat level is : 264.125

 

Old one:

Combat level 194

 

55 summoning, 51 magic, 21 ranging, 76 a/d

 

70 difference in combat level. Not sure how comparable they are meant to be. I appreciate the difficulty in incorporating summoning into such a thing, given that summoning is not something than can be easily done in combat. I just feel too n00by to have a combat level above 200.

 

S.

[Vanyel]

Also, I suggest running competitions that pit summoners against other summoners. Use a non-PK map and have the goal be to kill all your opponents summons with your summons. Whoever's summons are all dead first, loses.

Determining well matched opponents for an event such as this would be easy, it can simply be done based on summoning level.

I don't know if such events have been attempted before and failed or if there's some flaw i'm not seeing... please let me know if this is the case.

 

I tried to run such an event. I got literally 3 people ready to take part in it. It slightly pissed me off, especially I tried to run this event after getting lots of not-so-nice-in-form complains in forums.

I still like the idea for the event I had back then. I may try again. We'll see. For now I have few other events on my mind and I really need to find a way of taking summoning/ranging into account.

For the Thelinor event I will limit the use of summoning stones (very much) and summoned creatures (not so much, there will be plenty of invaded creatures and Thelinor is a multicombat area).

Edited May 9, 2008 by Vanyel

[Itzalan]

There's an issue, like if you have 0 ranging, it wont give you your CL, so you might wanna fix that for people with Zero ranging, it gives the messages "Type your attributes (Everything MUST be filled)" without giving your CL, so shouldn't be too hard to fix, just make it where it adds 0t o your combat lvl instead of not giving you an answer

You're totally right. Allowed 0 for ranging and summoning

[Puntif]

I put in the stats for one of my alts and got not combat level - that alt has magic level 0. Changing magic level to 1 gave a result.

 

You might want to allow attack=0 and defense=0 also since I might want to see what combat level a blessed guild map bot could start with.

[Vanyel]

Nobody has attack/defence at 0:)

[Learner]

Nobody has attack/defence at 0:)

Do you honestly expect that will stop people from entering 0?

[Puntif]

Actually a true sight potion can bring attack and defense levels as low as 0 . . .

[Vanyel]

Actually a true sight potion can bring attack and defense levels as low as 0 . . .

As far as I know people calculate their combat levels for their basic attributes/skills, not ones after drinking TS or other potions. Well, at least common sense would suggest it. So yeah, Itzi, make it possible to put 0s everywhere;) Somehow right, common sense is not longer common.

[Itzalan]

Went there, did that... Skills can be 0... Attributes still can't as afaik, they can't be below 4.

 

Hiya punty btw

[Itzalan]

For summonning, we changed some stuff together with Vany...

 

It was (Charm + Summoning / 2) * .75

Now, it's :

summoning * coefficient

with coefficient being :

.15 if summoning < 30

.30 if summoning between 30 and 45 (45 excluded)

.55 if summoning >= 45

 

Anything to say about it ?

[korrode]

Ok well, if an 'overall' calculation is going to be insisted upon, rather than a chart of allowed summons based on allowed equipment, then going off the concept that people are likely to summon a creature so long as they are at the recommended level,

 

i'd say do this:

 

0.25 if summoning is 34 of less.

 

0.75 if summoning is 35 - 44. (thats fluffys and m.chims... a few m.chims that are hitting 100% could shift the balance of power in a fight, especially if the best allowed armor/wep is iron plate/ti serp, as i dont think anyone will absorb all non-crit damage with iron plate).

 

1.50 if summoning is 45 or higher. (yeti are rec lvl 45, even with full phys, decent vit and full steel armor not all non crit damage is absorbed iirc, and they crit heaps).

[Itzalan]

0.25 if summoning is 34 of less.

 

0.75 if summoning is 35 - 44. (thats fluffys and m.chims... a few m.chims that are hitting 100% could shift the balance of power in a fight, especially if the best allowed armor/wep is iron plate/ti serp, as i dont think anyone will absorb all non-crit damage with iron plate).

 

1.50 if summoning is 45 or higher. (yeti are rec lvl 45, even with full phys, decent vit and full steel armor not all non crit damage is absorbed iirc, and they crit heaps).

No ? Come on, I try to calculate a player CL, not his summons CL...

[korrode]

wha...?

 

 

The CL of a person capable of and likely to summon multiple giants/dragons should be increased quite significantly.

 

One huge issue is that normal summoning cant be done while in combat...

 

Lets consider an example, even with summoning not allowed in combat...

 

Korrode VS SpleenFeeder

 

Korrode = 112/116/0 a/d/summ

SpleenFeeder = 76/76/55 a/d/summ

 

In normal combat i'll boot Spleen to the underworld np, but if Spleen were to diss-invis and summon 3 giants, Korrode will be in hell before i can blink, alot quicker than i would send him to hell without summons. The 2 second wait between spells in combat combined with a 350ms ping alone will kill me, any PK skills aside.

 

 

So... if you wanna down-play the strength of summons for PK events in multi-combat areas, fine... come talk to me when every fighter at the event is bitching afterwards cause 1 man team Blodoks summoned 3 dragons and poofed them all to hell np :(

 

(which btw a very high level summoner could still do even with my proposed changes... maybe the CL increase applied from summoning level needs to be raised even more )

 

EDIT:

Even just look at the simple math.

My proposed changes would only increase the CL of someone capable of summoning giants by 82.5

 

Look at the increase receive from components that only affect close quarters combat, 1 level/point of each att(0.75)+def(0.75)+react(1)+toughn(1)+dex(1)+matter(0.5) = 5

All of these components affect close quarters combat are increased parallel to each other when leveled... a/d/oa all increase together, from the single process of training a/d.

...and now my proposed points increase to the CL per summoning component, of which the strength of is only increased by the summoning level: 1.5

 

5.0 VS 1.5

 

it's not like i've suggested summoning count for way more than combat related components

 

 

EDIT2:

I dont deny though, that my point is much less valid if ANY summoning stones are going to be allowed at events... but afaik Vanyel's goal at least is to allow summoning but not summoning stones at events.

And at any events where all stones are allowed, including summoning in the calculation at all becomes near on pointless.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Korrode