anima Report post Posted April 22, 2008 how about this then, if your armour can absorb 20 damage but only does 10 because the hit was only for 10, after you remove toughness, then all armour has a chance to break 50% of what it was(maybe reduce this slightly as its not much diffrent from now), this means that it will be exactly the same when you take damage and when your armour blocks it it will be less but still a chance, i know ent said something similar but he was thinking of picking an absolute point past which its 100% and below is 0% a sliding scale would be fairer i think. just a possible solution ive just started training hard and i dont want to have to work even harder than those already at the top to get my lvls. i think this change is discouraging for mid level a/d trainers on ogres-feros Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fedora Report post Posted April 22, 2008 (edited) You really don't want the chance to be proportional with the damage Sorry, maybe it is the unordinate amount of feroses i'm killing all the day, but i dont get why this would be bad. I posted the suggestion because, if before the breakage was virtually impossible now it seems a little too much. Well, then if you go fight a dragon, then you'll always break the armor, since the dragon does a LOT of damage. Ok. But chance doesnt need to be directly proportional to damage. I think an asymptotic function (as the one used in #pki i suppose) could do the job. here is an example of an arctan more or less centered around 5. Using this (only an example!) you have normal break rate for damage=5, no break rate for damage=0, max of 2.5x break rate for higher damages (by damage i mean the y of my previous post, damage filtered through toughness). You can play with the function using parameters (i.e. center, steepness, max break rate modifier) to adapt it to different armors. This way pvp isnt so safe anymore and also fast leveling with pro armor will be reduced, while the break rate for a "reasonable" use of the armor will still be acceptable. EDIT: mmm...criticals bypass armor, so no damage to gear? else criticals will break a lot too... Edited April 22, 2008 by Fedora Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
korrode Report post Posted April 22, 2008 u know, despite the whole all critters breaking as much as each other thing, Ent's original idea of just reducing everything's break rate is a good solution, imo the best. (and dont think i haven't looked at the other presented ideas and thought hard about it before making this statement) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kl4Uz Report post Posted April 22, 2008 Even unarmed Orcs destroyed my augmented pants like nothing... And I am usually training on fluffies. This is crazy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burfoot Report post Posted April 22, 2008 So heres what we need or want: Nothing breaks in game High level monsters easier to train on No stops on harvesting -excepting for finding stones (maybe 1 ro found each harvest) Monsters drop 4X gc and 1:50 for rare drop Enriched ess 1:100 this would fix eveything? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TooMass Report post Posted April 22, 2008 So heres what we need or want: Nothing breaks in game High level monsters easier to train on No stops on harvesting -excepting for finding stones (maybe 1 ro found each harvest) Monsters drop 4X gc and 1:50 for rare drop Enriched ess 1:100 this would fix eveything? nah u forgot less fails during alch,manu pot etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dago Report post Posted April 22, 2008 (edited) So heres what we need or want: Nothing breaks in game High level monsters easier to train on No stops on harvesting -excepting for finding stones (maybe 1 ro found each harvest) Monsters drop 4X gc and 1:50 for rare drop Enriched ess 1:100 this would fix eveything? None of those would fix anything imo, durability on items isnt even on that list? edit: tempest saw it ;p Edited April 22, 2008 by Dago Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TooMass Report post Posted April 22, 2008 So heres what we need or want: Nothing breaks in game High level monsters easier to train on No stops on harvesting -excepting for finding stones (maybe 1 ro found each harvest) Monsters drop 4X gc and 1:50 for rare drop Enriched ess 1:100 this would fix eveything? None of those would fix anything imo, durability on items isnt even on that list? edit: tempest saw it ;p have u ever heard about sarcasm? :D i guess not Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dago Report post Posted April 22, 2008 if I dont, you dont toom durability is probably never getting added Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaddy Report post Posted April 22, 2008 Ent already said that he would think about break rates again and probably decrease them, why do you still keep complaining like a crybabie?!? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mortek Report post Posted April 22, 2008 how about this then, if your armour can absorb 20 damage but only does 10 because the hit was only for 10, after you remove toughness, then all armour has a chance to break 50% of what it was(maybe reduce this slightly as its not much diffrent from now), this means that it will be exactly the same when you take damage and when your armour blocks it it will be less but still a chance, i know ent said something similar but he was thinking of picking an absolute point past which its 100% and below is 0% a sliding scale would be fairer i think. For me it looks like this: If armor takes all damage it can break chance should be multiplied by 1.0 If it takes half of damage it can it should by multiplied by 0.5 as armor was stuck with half of the max power etc. PS. Not drinking today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conavar Report post Posted April 22, 2008 All these systems and sums people are coming up with to how armour should break... what about things that dont absorb damage ?? Cols, capes , Medallions etc ? Why not do like Ent said, wait till he has got a bit of data then reduce the break rates across the board if needed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tempest Report post Posted April 22, 2008 yeh, reduce the break rate a bit... i broke 18 goddamn aug pants on feros, i broke 0-1 in 3 hours before, so even IF he reduces breakrate "a bit" like he said, it surely will stay at 10 breaks... (i'm skeptic, my def is more than high enough for them, and i don't wanna hear 1 single "omg u had bad luck then i guess!~1!") Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ermabwed Report post Posted April 22, 2008 Question: aren't breaks logged anyways? I think I saw that mentioned in a bug report somewhere... wouldn't it be much easier, less frustration and over all more pr0 to just log breaks under different models and then see what's "best"? That way would have the additional benefit of untainted results. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted April 22, 2008 Question: aren't breaks logged anyways? I think I saw that mentioned in a bug report somewhere... wouldn't it be much easier, less frustration and over all more pr0 to just log breaks under different models and then see what's "best"? That way would have the additional benefit of untainted results. I guess it could be done, but it's too abstract. Besides, if I just make the breaks 'virtual', for the purpose of logging under different models, people won't bitch anymore, so where is the joy? yeh, reduce the break rate a bit... i broke 18 goddamn aug pants on feros, i broke 0-1 in 3 hours before, so even IF he reduces breakrate "a bit" like he said, it surely will stay at 10 breaks... (i'm skeptic, my def is more than high enough for them, and i don't wanna hear 1 single "omg u had bad luck then i guess!~1!") And before the change, how many augmented sets did you break on feros? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tempest Report post Posted April 22, 2008 (edited) sorry maybe my english isn't rly good enough, with the "i broke 0-1 in 3 hours before" i meant before the change i broke maximum 1 aug pants (ok, maybe if i'm unlucky/very unlucky 2-3) in 3 hours. the breakrate got drastically changed, if i count all the pms from people together who broke something it's around 700kgc in the last 2 days. Edited April 22, 2008 by Tempest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted April 22, 2008 sorry maybe my english isn't rly good enough, with the "i broke 0-1 in 3 hours before" i meant before the change i broke maximum 1 aug pants (ok, maybe if i'm unlucky/very unlucky 2-3) in 3 hours. Not sure if you realize, but the augmented armor is supposed to break really fast, it is almost as good as the titanium armor, and cost orders of magnitude less. So before the change, when fighting certain monsters, that armor was almost unbreakable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tempest Report post Posted April 22, 2008 (edited) ok cool, didn't think about the aug armor absorbing damage instead of giving + armor like tit does. but even tho... Fedora broke 1 steelgreaves + col in 2 days less than 3 hours training the guy who posted here with his screen broke 4 items, 1 col under it in less than 1 minute. my guildie broke 2 COL on the same day. something is definitly VERY wrong there, everything seems to break like the aug armor broke before the update.. after 1-2 hours >.< there are many more people who degraded more stuff on 1 day than in the last 3 months. EDIT: just to clarify, i have np with the armor breaking faster .. since i don't rly train anymore. it's just the fact that i can already see another huge disadvantage for a/d trainers and Pkers, well, if there are any PKers left after this :S instead of some more money (which pkers would burn away anyway) to make PK more alive, we just get another money loss which we have to replace with forced harvesting.. + you just made 7 monsters out of ur own game totally useless. Edited April 22, 2008 by Tempest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted April 22, 2008 I decided to post some samples of the items breaking in the last 23 hours. Please note that I am not counting cheap or semi cheap items, such as bones, branches, some meds, low end swords and armors, etc. Mon Apr 21 20:29:05 2008 Player birdcamp lost a Iron CuissesMon Apr 21 21:05:17 2008 Player minddragon lost a Cutlass Mon Apr 21 21:14:55 2008 Player Fedora lost a Steel Greave Mon Apr 21 21:16:53 2008 Player silent1 lost a Steel Plate Mail Mon Apr 21 21:17:00 2008 Player Mat lost a Steel Plate Mail Mon Apr 21 21:23:50 2008 Player dizzyone lost a Iron Cuisses Mon Apr 21 21:27:50 2008 Player silent1 lost a Damaged Crown of Life Mon Apr 21 22:22:56 2008 Player Stephane83 lost a Titanium Plate Mail Mon Apr 21 22:46:32 2008 Player PraSwinia lost a Used Orc Slayer Mon Apr 21 22:51:19 2008 Player uLubatLi lost a Iron Greave Mon Apr 21 22:58:02 2008 Player Marro lost a Steel Cuisses Mon Apr 21 23:01:17 2008 Player Skyedance lost a Short Bow Mon Apr 21 23:02:16 2008 Player Golaff lost a Long Bow Mon Apr 21 23:20:17 2008 Player Legendary_KoD lost a Bronze Sword Mon Apr 21 23:22:22 2008 Player AttilaTheHun lost a Steel Cuisses Mon Apr 21 23:40:35 2008 Player Monk_of_Death lost a Crown of Life Mon Apr 21 23:48:18 2008 Player ladyblue lost a Second Hand Titanium Long Sword Tue Apr 22 00:23:33 2008 Player CorbinRichard lost a Fast Regeneration Cape Tue Apr 22 00:24:18 2008 Player Klets lost a Used Steel Greave Tue Apr 22 00:25:29 2008 Player ArchFundy lost a Medallion of Life Tue Apr 22 00:38:14 2008 Player birdcamp lost a Iron Plate Mail Tue Apr 22 00:41:10 2008 Player Ozmondius lost a Titanium Shield Tue Apr 22 01:06:57 2008 Player Marro lost a Steel Plate Mail Tue Apr 22 01:13:09 2008 Player TooMass lost a Crown of Life Tue Apr 22 01:15:00 2008 Player andy_c lost a Long Bow Tue Apr 22 01:19:54 2008 Player lez lost a Blue Tricorn Hat Tue Apr 22 01:20:49 2008 Player jorge70 lost a Medallion of Life Tue Apr 22 01:29:33 2008 Player uLubatLi lost a Mirror Cloak Tue Apr 22 01:33:01 2008 Player Angler lost a Steel Greave Tue Apr 22 01:33:59 2008 Player Krones lost a Iron Cuisses Tue Apr 22 01:45:33 2008 Player jbird lost a Second Hand Titanium Long Sword Tue Apr 22 02:05:24 2008 Player gsardou lost a Long Bow Tue Apr 22 02:51:28 2008 Player lordscrooge lost a Iron Greave Tue Apr 22 03:05:33 2008 Player JettaI lost a Titanium Cuisses Tue Apr 22 03:48:23 2008 Player la3 lost a Iron Cuisses Tue Apr 22 03:54:40 2008 Player scafativ lost a Used Titanium Shield Tue Apr 22 04:15:00 2008 Player la3 lost a Used Titanium Shield Tue Apr 22 05:10:38 2008 Player Eternity lost a Steel Greave Tue Apr 22 05:42:16 2008 Player Eternity lost a Used Steel Greave Tue Apr 22 07:13:19 2008 Player Olorandir lost a Short Bow Tue Apr 22 07:36:42 2008 Player JettaI lost a Used Titanium Shield Tue Apr 22 07:41:00 2008 Player Deadhead lost a Medallion of Life Tue Apr 22 09:33:02 2008 Player zl0nline lost a Cape of The Unbreakable Tue Apr 22 09:39:31 2008 Player Druss lost a Steel Greave Tue Apr 22 10:50:47 2008 Player Druss lost a Crown of Life Tue Apr 22 11:43:07 2008 Player SASKi lost a Steel Cuisses Tue Apr 22 11:52:21 2008 Player shultZ lost a Titanium Greave Tue Apr 22 15:29:20 2008 Player NuJac lost a Medallion of Life Tue Apr 22 15:44:28 2008 Player LLogh lost a Steel Cuisses Tue Apr 22 15:55:22 2008 Player rrm lost a Short Bow Tue Apr 22 15:56:23 2008 Player Nimbus00 lost a Iron Cuisses Tue Apr 22 16:37:03 2008 Player milu lost a Titanium Greave Tue Apr 22 17:10:41 2008 Player Dasha lost a Crown of Life Tue Apr 22 17:13:20 2008 Player Mrskapone lost a Steel Cuisses Tue Apr 22 19:16:47 2008 Player dre lost a Titanium Cuisses Tue Apr 22 19:24:03 2008 Player Nimbus00 lost a Iron Greave Tue Apr 22 19:33:52 2008 Player MaNGo lost a Steel Greave Given the fact that there are around 2K players playing the game each day, and the fact that most of those items can be repaired, with 50% or more chance to repair properly, I think the breaking rate is not too bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubenVincent Report post Posted April 22, 2008 And before the change, how many augmented sets did you break on feros? I can say that only for skellies, but it was about one, maybe one and a half set per thousand bones, yesterday it had been about six sets plus two swords. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted April 22, 2008 (edited) Actually I think it's a lot. I guess it's about 70 broken items. Let's guess that there are about 1k fighters of the 2k players. That means 7% of the people break something expensive each day. It's not like every player earns more than 10kgc each day. And how many of those fighters actually wear expensive stuff? A lot low level players don't wear this stuff, so it's an even smaller part who takes all those breaks. But those are just my thoughts, I don't know how many things broke before the change, that would be much more intresting. Edited April 22, 2008 by Cycloonx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tempest Report post Posted April 22, 2008 ent, you said u have an alt ingame and ur playing with it. try to get 50kgc a day without more than 4 hours harvesting, please. you will NEVER be able to. and without harvesting this is impossible. and if you're a fighter, do u wanna get forced to harvest? i mean look at ur own logs.. druss lost like 80kgc in just 1+ hour. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mango Report post Posted April 22, 2008 Actually I think it's a lot. I guess it's about 70 broken items. Let's guess that there are about 1k fighters of the 2k players. That means 7% of the people break something expensive each day. It's not like every player earns more than 10kgc each day. And how many of those fighters actually wear expensive stuff? A lot low level players don't wear this stuff, so it's an even smaller part who takes all those breaks. But those are just my thoughts, I don't know how many things broke before the change, that would be much more intresting. Agreed, and Im afraid it are even a lot less people, seeing the number of names that are twice on the list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaddy Report post Posted April 22, 2008 try to get 50kgc a day without more than 4 hours harvesting, please. you will NEVER be able to.and without harvesting this is impossible. and if you're a fighter, do u wanna get forced to harvest? Exactly, We chose to be FIGHTERS. And there is a category that named Fighter/PKer which earns their life money by fighting/training. So if we chose to be fighters, why should we be forced to harvest 10 hours a day to maintain our PK stuff?? Otherwise, there is no type of players, all gotta be allrounder eh? And all these things makes PKing all stupid, people are not STUPID to choose being PKer than... and the last thing, PKing = rost losing = more bricks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captdeadhead Report post Posted April 22, 2008 (edited) Not enough data here to make a fair opinoin - need to know how long and how many people were fighting compared to what broke. also need to factor what dropped in this time period, etc. I know for me, I wasn't fighting too long and broke a MoL on the log, but also broke another one a day or so ago. Seems expensive considering the minimal time that I spent fighting. Just my .02 Deadhead Edit: Whats wrong with being an all arounder? Edited April 22, 2008 by captdeadhead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites