New Break Rate

[TirunCollimdus]

@ Ent. very true , if players need to train in steel/tit plate on fluffs then they have either reset ( which sux) or are training above there level, but I would say that it also affects PK which sadly you need to wear your best items to participate properly

 

How does it affect PKing?

 

 

I was very happy to hear that you were looking into the problem and considering a change that seemed like the perfect solution to me. I do agree with the players who say we need a change to adjust to the effects of the bug being fixed. I don't think the other solutions will work because they don't cover items like crowns. I just think it needs to be adjusted enough so that people don't completely stop training in good gear so that the lower level spawns are protected from players who want to keep their better armor for PK or something else besides training.

 

As Tempest has mentioned many times over, anything that has an effect on the economics of training has an effect on PK. To be able to PK you have to have money and you cannot get money from PK. PK is done with rostos so it is always a loss when you fight. Yes there is TD and there is the very few exceptions who PK without rostos but they are an extreme minority and we are talking about the larger general population. PKers used to train to get money to pay for the gear they lost in PK. Now they harvest or use other skills to replace the gear they loose in PK.

 

Now PKers will be harvesting to replace their training gear and their PK gear too. The more training costs them the more they have to harvest/alch or whatever to afford to PK and train. This leads to using your a/d skills when you play less than your other skills and suddenly you are a harvester who PKs or an alcher who fights. That is how this effects PK. Telling people to drop to lower creatures in cheaper armors puts more people on the lower level spawns which most of the players are already on.

 

Forcing players to make money by training on or drop fighting on monsters that are so weak for them that they don't need armor or can use really cheap armor is just going to make it impossible for players who should be training on them to use them. Spawns are a finite resource and telling people to move backwards on them makes the game too hard for newer players because they cannot get spawns.

 

Tirun

[Tempest]

indeed, and the more rosto someone loses the better the economy gets, without implementing money loss skills.. it worked before too, i guess mainly because people lost more rostos and PKed more.

[Cruella]

This leads to using your a/d skills when you play less than your other skills and suddenly you are a harvester who PKs or an alcher who fights.

 

I agree with Tirun, you should't force pkers to "roleplay" harvesters in the mmoRPG game

 

PS.

First, it's fucking affect not effect.

[Khalai]

Also to more training people, the more HEs, SRs and armors will mixers sell, getting some dynamics into economics. To clarify: I am not pure fighter, yet I understand, how fighting is important for the economics, with more fighter I have more customers and so on...

[furzwei]

hmm

i think increased breaking rates should be handled as life.. so it is given.. now is time to think of a solution

 

i know what i will suggest is different from standard EL but i wanted to say as of i was always thinking of it

 

i was wondering what would happen if every weapon/armor etc would be special and unique.. different damage but yet is the same category (iron sword..) and it depends on astrology or whatever how effective your thing will be.. so a bad iron chainmail will be actually worse than an augmented leather armor

 

but how to measure this difference.. what if the items manued (or some of them) would have a lifetime (and it would not be by chance that they break right after manuing), so a leather armor will take up to 1000 damage on average before breaking and that is where the uniqueness thing would come in.. maybe some only take 800 maybe some take 1500!!

 

for expensive weapons and armors there should be a chance to be repaired or fixed of course at an npc for a high price

 

the point is: like this we could keep track of the current situation of our things (which is normal.. i see my ipod being crazy after i dropped it..) and we would not be so surprised, upset, dissing everyone... npc's could fix the items for gc (costly of course) so gc would be taken out of the game..

 

this was my idea and i think it would make it realistic and still maintain "teh C0ntrol"

 

breaking rate is no prob... i think this way the monsters got "undirectly" stronger

 

peace

[robotbob]

for expensive weapons and armors there should be a chance to be repaired or fixed of course at an npc for a high price

 

the point is: like this we could keep track of the current situation of our things (which is normal.. i see my ipod being crazy after i dropped it..) and we would not be so surprised, upset, dissing everyone... npc's could fix the items for gc (costly of course) so gc would be taken out of the game..

 

Do you know this is already in the game?

Just not the unique tracking item ID part, I can't imagine the overhead database

to track that mess (new ID for each leather helm )

[Fourier]

I haven't replied since as Entropy noted, it doesn't affect me.

 

Plus, I train in aug and chain, and if I wear steel its to 'loot mobs' use a sword against

chims and other monsters for drops. So my risk of breaking is still the same, it was always high.

And if I was to fight fluffy rabbits, I could do this without a col or much armor anyway.

 

So all this does is cause over-armored players on lesser monsters to experience the same

break rates the rest of us experience on 'harder hitting' monsters.

 

I think this 'event' is getting tied into a question from another thread:

"What should be a fighter's source of income, alch, harvesting, or the skill itself?"

 

I think Bob's pretty much got it right here. I train fluffies with aug pants, steel chain, steel shield, leather boots, and leather helm. I train DCs about the same way, sometimes with a bone or tit short, depending on Astrology. The only real break rate difference I have seen is in the tit shorts, degraded 4 in 2 DC sessions. To me, that says when Astrology is bad, I probably shouldn't be fighting DCs. In general, the adjusted break rate seems to be working out for me because I have seen a lot less competition from tit fluffers and tit DC fighters

[furzwei]

for expensive weapons and armors there should be a chance to be repaired or fixed of course at an npc for a high price

 

the point is: like this we could keep track of the current situation of our things (which is normal.. i see my ipod being crazy after i dropped it..) and we would not be so surprised, upset, dissing everyone... npc's could fix the items for gc (costly of course) so gc would be taken out of the game..

 

Do you know this is already in the game?

Just not the unique tracking item ID part, I can't imagine the overhead database

to track that mess (new ID for each leather helm )

 

 

yes i knew that this is in the game... yet the change i suggested that items would have their respected lifetime which would be known and be repaired according to that.. or,

 

if it is easier it could be only that each player has a random number of damage taken for each armor and no matter if you pick up a new helm or use the old one, you have a personal counter that says that (any) leather helmet you will wear, will break after 232 more damage taken. damages would change with the level of armor of course! a tit armor could bear 10.000+ damage..

 

of course i understand it would be hard to have the game full of unique stuff.. but dont tell me it wouldnt be nice to have a sword that you like cuz it hits better than the rest.. you know.. a little rpg; you could name the sword and it becomes famous etc..

[forever]

Um, if everything was fixable what would manuers sell ?

 

(with out risk of it breaking while attmpeting too)

 

#edit

Edited April 24, 2008 by forever

[Shadeslayer]

there is a chance that the item your trying to fix will be destroyed

[forever]

I know this shadeslayer but I was pointing it out to the numb nuts who from what i understand wants things to have a no fail rate at fixing it xD

[Fedora]

u know, despite the whole all critters breaking as much as each other thing, Ent's original idea of just reducing everything's break rate is a good solution, imo the best.

 

(and dont think i haven't looked at the other presented ideas and thought hard about it before making this statement)

 

I trained 6 hours a day or more in the last 10 days, going through the 90's on fluffies and feroses and continued the trend after the update. After some time testing I tend to agree with Korrode. A reduction on the break rate of some high end items could be the best solution. Indeed low gear training forces a reduction of the time you can stay at a spawn and prevents people from moving to stronger mobs too soon.

 

I broke since the update:

1 steal greaves, repaired, broke again and finally broke by HB

1 CoL, sold and rebought new

4 steel shields

12 aug pants

3 leather boots

1 steel chainmail

 

oh, and i did a manu lvl

 

EDIT:

obviously NMT and skeptic

Edited April 24, 2008 by Fedora

[kl4Uz]

Why do you use all that gear for training? There is so much cheaper stuff around, which is almost as good. Players didn't have all that fancy stuff in the past and still managed to train.

[anima]

I know this shadeslayer but I was pointing it out to the numb nuts who from what i understand wants things to have a no fail rate at fixing it xD

 

what about if we had 90% success on repair but damaged items had 50% degrade per hit, so if you got them off as soon as they broke you would have a good chance of repair, would certainly make me pay more attention when training.

[masterpiter]

Fedora, i really dont see any increasement in break rates from the data u gave, 2 steel greaves degraded and 1 col degraded is like 85k gc loss in 10 days, seems quite normal to me

[Fedora]

Fedora, i really dont see any increasement in break rates from the data u gave, 2 steel greaves degraded and 1 col degraded is like 85k gc loss in 10 days, seems quite normal to me

 

that was since the update, before i didnt break almost nothing. However, i'm not complaining at all, just pointing out that the first solution proposed by Ent is quite good. Moreover, after the second greaves breakage (happened in 2 days of training) i started to use leather boots (ah, wisdom by trial and error...).

[Soul]

This break rates wont fix the economy 2 much...people will start using aug armor for training and will hardly ever use better armor besides pk

Anyway, this is a good try to fix the economy...many cols will vanish and many augs will be sold

[larrystorch]

Why do you use all that gear for training? There is so much cheaper stuff around, which is almost as good. Players didn't have all that fancy stuff in the past and still managed to train.

 

Exactly, plus with lower armor levels, you can get more magic exp. by casting more restores and casting shield to help out.

 

I've degraded one tit chain and broke about 5 augmented pants so far on fluffs since the change. Once I use up the tit chains that I've gotten as drops and the augmented pants I've made, I'll make some steel chains and more augmented pants. That means more manufacturing exp.

[furzwei]

I know this shadeslayer but I was pointing it out to the numb nuts who from what i understand wants things to have a no fail rate at fixing it xD

 

 

and you know.. if players could fix you would get your manu exp from repairing the enormous amount of damaged stuff as well!! this large amount of armors breaking would be great exp to manuers and of course the cash ...

[extrapolation]

and you know.. if players could fix you would get your manu exp from repairing the enormous amount of damaged stuff as well!! this large amount of armors breaking would be great exp to manuers and of course the cash ...

 

So, you give the degraded CoL and 3kgc repair fee to the manuer, then you have a 40:60 chance of getting scammed

[Soul]

lost 4 aug torsos

12 aug pants

5 leather boots

1 wooden shield

and col got damaged

on 200 ogres....w/ nmt cloak and skeptic

wtf?i know economy is kinda damaged now but come on...its unfair

The old players didnt have to deal w/ is, they had full restore spell and the break rate was ok back then

Anyway, imo its a drastic measure, lower the chance a lil at least

#edit: col destroied by thankel....thank you for the new brakerates, makes me wanna quit

Edited April 24, 2008 by Soul

[Cycloonx]

lost 4 aug torsos

12 aug pants

5 leather boots

1 wooden shield

and col got damaged

on 200 ogres....w/ nmt and skeptic

wtf?i know economy is kinda damaged now but come on...its unfair

The old players didnt have to deal w/ is, they had full restore spell and the break rate was ok back then

Anyway, imo its a drastic measure, lower the chance a lil at least

 

I've got plenty of augmented leather pants for sale

[masterpiter]

Does ogre hits u for 50 dmg that u need a col? The only reason u wear it is to be longer on a spawn

 

Some1 wants to restore once per 20 ogres and stay on spawn for 6h then he should use steel set and col( that will break sooner or later, rather sooner ;p).

Wear cheap armors and no col, yes u will need to restock after 1-2 hours but almost every1 will need it too so less frustration coz of shorter waiting time for spawns

 

Just a thought

 

<edit> corrected some words, probably still far from proper english but doing my best

Edited April 24, 2008 by masterpiter

[Soul]

Does ogre hits u for 50 dmg that u need a col? The only reason u use is to be longer on a spawn

 

Some1 wants to restore once per 20 ogres and stay on spawn for 6h then he should use steel set and col( that will break sooner or later, rather sooner ;p).

Wear cheap armors and no col, yes u will need to restock after 1-2 hours but almost every1 will need it too so less frustration coz of shorter waiting time for spawns

 

Just a thought

uh oh, im on reset....couldnt really train ogres w/ 50 hp...but ill give it a thought:isnt the col ingame just for this : fighting...

Like i said, these days its hard to train w/ these changes...1-2 years ago it was a lot easier=>older players(1-2 years old) were advantaged...or better said...were disadvantaged now

[masterpiter]

1-2 years ago it was a lot easier=>older players(1-2 years old) were advantaged...or better said...were disadvantaged now

Man, i have really no idea what u talking about, now u got nmt and ts pots which makes training crazy easy, u got skill forums and combat section where u can read about some "tricks" to make ur playing time more enjoyable.

 

U know that before i needed to keep p16c24 and use tit chain + iron cuis/greaves on ogres which really broke like crazy?( low p/c= broken a lot, killed slow so low drops, couldnt add p/c coz exp per hit/block was very sucky anyways, dead end ;p ).

 

Many players needed like 5+ resets to move from ogre to fluffy and they still often ended up as a nasty-negged out account which meant another reset

 

Really, the last thing ppl should now biatch about is hard/difficult training at small lvls

 

 

mp