High money drop monsters on PK maps.

[Khalai]

yeah you get more money in the game.. but who cares tbh ;*/

 

Inflation does care. There has to be a money circulation, otherwise it will end up in rabbit fur for 3kgc/each or something.

[Tempest]

we had like double or triple gc in EL 1 year ago than now.

anyway more gc won't ruin the game.

a game with a good economy is nothing if you can't enjoy every single aspect of it, rather kill the economy.

 

not completly, but at least so no skills get fucked up because of it, please?

Edited April 15, 2008 by Tempest

[villekPL]

i want to train archery. . buti must harvest to get arrows :\

[sadarar]

I have never seen anyone PKing hydrorunners so far.

[TirunCollimdus]

I am thinking the drops should be multiplied by 4 or 5 times. Possibly 5 times up to ogre and then 4 times for stuff over that. I don't know why people are suggesting this is an idea to get people to train in PK maps. This is not to get people to go into PK maps in weak armor and train. That would be pointless. The idea is to get them in PK in full PK gear to drop fight the monsters that spawn there. Not just KF but in every single PK area in the game. Oh and it seems that we have forgotten about dis rings and teleport essence completely in this discussion. If you want to cut and run when someone tries to take the spawn by killing you then unless they have JSoC you can. If you want to fight you can. If you want to run and then come back with friends because you know where the spawn is then you can.

 

All of this means more incentive to be in PK with full gear fighting for drops and will give a LOT more opportunities for PK to happen because PKers won't have to harvest flowers for gold. Yes more people in PK maps does provide more opportunities to PK. I don't see how anyone can have a problem following that logic. As far as I can tell almost every person posting at least wants to give this a try. This means more money but probably more breakage too of course. Red capes and dis rings still are available to protect loss of gear and rostos or just gear in TD. I don't see anything that would keep people out of PK trying to take advantage of this for drop fighting.

 

Tirun

[Learner]

All I can say is ... greedy PK'rs. You people are already working on the skills that level the fastest and all the extra gc will do is let you level faster!!!

 

Yes, you might spend more on potions/essences, but I doubt if any of the extra gc will go for expensive equipment. And all that gc would just go to buddies/guilds as you train faster.

[TirunCollimdus]

All I can say is ... greedy PK'rs. You people are already working on the skills that level the fastest and all the extra gc will do is let you level faster!!!

 

Yes, you might spend more on potions/essences, but I doubt if any of the extra gc will go for expensive equipment. And all that gc would just go to buddies/guilds as you train faster.

 

 

What PKers? I thought that was the whole problem in the first place. If the PK maps are empty then there aren't enough PKers to call greedy in the first place. This is not about training more it is about PKing and more breakage and more use of equipment and armor. The idea is to give an incentive to go to PK maps. Going to PK maps leads to PKing. PKing leads to coin going out of the game. Strangling the economy will let the people who have money PK until they run out and then you have no one PKing at all.

 

PKers used to train on high drop monsters and get tons of experience at the same time as they got their mountains of gold. They did it entirely safe from being attacked and only had to worry about spawn serpers. Bet that scared them.(shivers) Now to actually get the high drop benefits you have to actually be in PK. What is wrong with that idea? High level monsters are no longer profitable. This is forcing PKers who don't already have tons of money to harvest or do something else for gold. If you want the game to be fun for these players and have more PKing then you shouldn't force them to harvest or use other skills for their money.

This idea doesn't get PKers tons of experience. This idea doesn't give PKers high drop monsters like they had before in the safety of non-PK maps. This idea simply rewards players for being in PK maps. Doesn't their have to be a reward somewhere in PK? PK points don't matter. You don't get drops in PK. You don't get anything at all out of PK except for the opportunity to flame and be flamed as well as the opportunity to use and lose your stuff. Give me one good reason to PK besides this idea I am posting now. PK fights are cool and fun if they last a while and your opponent puts up a good fight. Some people think it is fun to pawn people too. You wind up getting bored eventually with either of these options because their just isn't anything gained in the process.

 

Tirun

[Learner]

I know what the purpose of the suggestion is, but you need to stop and think about what will actually happen, not the desired effect. Most of the 'PK' activity will be PvP with stopping at times to kill wandering moster for the loot. It will not be true PK because most fighters won't go to the PK map for the loot unless the map is empty or populated by friends.

 

Stop and think about how players would abuse this, not just how you think it will solve one problem.

[peino]

I know what the purpose of the suggestion is, but you need to stop and think about what will actually happen, not the desired effect. Most of the 'PK' activity will be PvP with stopping at times to kill wandering moster for the loot. It will not be true PK because most fighters won't go to the PK map for the loot unless the map is empty or populated by friends.

 

Stop and think about how players would abuse this, not just how you think it will solve one problem.

I'm not sure why the situation you describe would be an abuse of the idea. Even if PvP is non-lethal, it can still break gear. Even if PvP is done bare-handed, some gear/pots/esses will be needed for the high-level monsters, and they can break it/kill the player, maybe. So whether it's "true PK" or not, it could still lead to more activity in the empty PK maps. And, actually, I agree with Tirun that the real 'killers' among the PKers will enjoy hunting players as much as hunting monsters for gc -- maybe enjoy it more. If so, then after a while, it might get hard to find a PK map that doesn't have at least one murderer lurking it in.

Edited April 16, 2008 by peino

[Dago]

pvp like asgnny pointed out, is usually done in guild maps behind guard bots...so i dont really see people taking the risk of pvping in pk maps just b/c monsters there drop good gold. I do see the risk of large allied/friendly guilds holding the gold spawns like fat spiders in a web tho...

[korrode]

All I can say is ... greedy PK'rs. You people are already working on the skills that level the fastest and all the extra gc will do is let you level faster!!!

 

Yes, you might spend more on potions/essences, but I doubt if any of the extra gc will go for expensive equipment. And all that gc would just go to buddies/guilds as you train faster.

lmao, you obviously have little PK experience.

On the 3 hours of NDD we usually get each week, a time when PK is highly active and we all have many fights, i spend literally 10+ times the gc then than i would for a whole weeks training @ 6 hours a day... and that's on NDD, so no rosto loss cost factored in.

 

Training i can so easily do, whenever i want. With my training system i break very little expensive equipment, and i cast restoration ~8 times an hour, it costs me very little.

 

In PK, I break titanium greaves(~30kgc) and cuisses(~40kgc) like crazy, i rip through acc and eva pots(both 100gc ea @ NPC) like a mixer going through fps... including SRS and the other boost pots i use as well, i go through well over 15kgc of potions every NDD... not to menton the amount of HEs, MagEs, and tele ess i go through.

 

I have to go harvest thousands and thousands or silver/bq to prepare for NDD... i'm a fighter ffs, why the hell am i 55k till harvest level 80?!?! I would much rather be serping monsters for gc, surely my recent suggestion about increasing clops gc drop is proof of that.

 

If we do manage to implement something that increases PK activity, then more gc will be needed by PK'ers anyway, infact if implementing this suggestion does significantly increase PK activity, then we'll probably need something else that puts even more gc into PK'ers hands to compensate

 

 

to ent: pls, just this time, dont think about the goddamn economy, think about the PKers.

to Learner: ditto on what Temp said.

 

EDIT:

I do see the risk of large allied/friendly guilds holding the gold spawns like fat spiders in a web tho...

I doubt it.. a 4x or 5x increase in gc drop isn't enough to warrant multiple peoples time, it's not enough gc... only really worthwhile if 1 person's time is being taken up... 4 people would each just go and serp spawns in non-PK areas and make the same or more gc each.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Korrode

[TirunCollimdus]

EDIT:

I do see the risk of large allied/friendly guilds holding the gold spawns like fat spiders in a web tho...

I doubt it.. a 4x or 5x increase in gc drop isn't enough to warrant multiple peoples time, it's not enough gc... only really worthwhile if 1 person's time is being taken up... 4 people would each just go and serp spawns in non-PK areas and make the same or more gc each.

 

This is it exactly. You would have to multiply the money 100X or more to try and make it worth it for more than one person to be on the spawn. You would have one person on a spawn unless a team of players came in to kill the player on the spawn. Those players in turn would not stay on the spawn together. They would split apart and go to their own respective spawns. The players could stay at the spawn to see if the person they PKed would come back for another fight but even if they did they wouldn't spend very long at it and would not be trying to use the spawn themselves. If they could have handled it by themselves it wouldn't have taken all of them to PK whoever had it before them.

 

There are FAR too many spawns in PK for any guild to try and monopolize them and it wouldn't be profitable to do it that way anyway. The PKers would be spread out at the spawns and be hunting each other as well. This would definitely work to increase PK.

 

Tirun

[masterpiter]

Wanted to comment Learners posts but dont wanna get perma-pked from the game somehow lolx so i better stay quiet, i said too much already

[conavar]

Maybe this idea would work, maybe it wont. for me personally I dont need an incentive to pk just the money lol

 

TBH drops need increasing across the board on monsters cycs and above , they are seriously to low .

 

EG: My past 3 weeks of training on fluffs to be able to PK ( or even just train the skill to advance a/d)

 

Cost:

 

63k on SRS

24k on He's ( thats just Feasting potions ,because I make my own)

60k on 2 Degraded Cols

5k on various other breakages ( augs,leather,chain mail etc)

 

note: Breakages are with NMT and skeptic

 

Total cost: 152k

 

Income:

 

31k from gold drops

20k from other drops (books,potions,capes)

 

Total income: 51k

 

 

Total net loss : 101k

 

Even saying I was unlucky with COL's, still leaves a loss of 41k, and that is before I even think about the money lost in PK , with Rosts, armour breaks, srs,he's, other potions,etc etc.

So to make up the shortfall, I have to harv,alch etc which for a classless game, being forced to have to do other classes/skills just to make a profit is weird

 

Maybe its just me who see's that since the drop rates of monsters has been slowly decreased , so has PK and/or players willing to train to PK. TBH when you look at the stats I dont blame DPA PKer's from just stopping leveling, its not worth them to do other wise.

 

 

 

Note: I know other skills do come at a loss to start ,but when you reach a certain level you can make a profit, which is very hard to do with a/d skill alone ( does not include tailoring and ranging which are ment to be loss making money sinks)

 

 

Edit: The stats are mine and im a lazy a/d trainer ,I get bored after a few hours, so Im sure a lot of players lose a lot more than I do

Edited April 16, 2008 by conavar

[korrode]

zomg con...

 

a couple of things u might wanna try:

 

1. wear enough armor so that all non-critical damage is absorbed. Armor only has a chance to break when damage is done to you, so if all non-crit damage is absorbed, you significantly reduce your armor break chances... depending on your toughness, this doesn't necessarily have to be full steel, could just be the torso piece with aug pants and leath boots, or just the greaves/cuisses with Ti chain, etc.

(EDIT: After some discussions in-game i feel i should add; I cant say i've been paying complete attention every single time i've damaged/broken armor, but from the times i have been, it was always when i took damage... in some discussions i've had with high level a/d'ers, they've agreed also... but i suppose i cant say 100% that you wont break armor unless you take damage, but certainly all my records indicate this (i.e. armor break rates in all aug VS aug+steel, etc.)

 

2. dont TS your def as much, you gotta weigh up if all the armor breaks and seemingly high HE/SR usage is worth that extra bit of def exp per hour. Sacrifice 10k def exp per hour by leaving your def 5 levels higher, you'll end up spending less time off replacing armors/resources and more time on spawn... works out as more exp in the end anyways.

Also, leaving your def high means you can safely use moon med (as opposed to uni), of which the 4 armor bonus from that is helpful in relation to point 1.

 

 

EDIT:

errr... sorry for off topic

EDIT2:

But, this isn't to say i disagree with Conavar, monster gc drops suck in general. You gotta use systems like i said above to make training feasible (and by "feasible" i mean not having to go and do almost as many hours mining/alch'ing as you do training to support the training).

TBH drops need increasing across the board on monsters cycs and above , they are seriously to low.

On the subject of cyclops specifically, these bastards crit like crazy, so u rip through resources and armor... they are a prime choice of monster to up the gc drop from, even in non-pk... but i already suggested this

Edited April 17, 2008 by Korrode

[Kaddy]

I'd rather say to all PKers.

 

JUST STOP PKING FOR 1 MONTH!!!

 

Then you ll be able to see how little gc is out of the game And how PKing is vital for EL... Btw, PKer's are the most funny and graceful players in EL. You could never call them *GREEDY*

[Chosen]

Put a dragon in KF that drops +5k.

[Tempest]

learner, you don't think there is something wrong with this?:

 

1) cutting yeti drops

2) cutting NMT/arti as drops

3) crushing tigers as a source of gc

4) lowering monster drops

5) implementing only skills that are money loss skills + crushing gc sources from other skills

 

i mean come on, yeh economy blablabla, now you got ur nice economy, but if you guys would only think about PK 1 time (LISTEN to goddamn pkers and not harvesters if u wanna know something TRUE about pk) the economy would've been even better, more rostos lost, more armor broken... with a lil difference.

 

FUN, instead of poor people.

 

 

 

(ever thought about the fact that this might also be one reason why "not many" new people are coming to EL? i mean, do people wanna harvest 8 hours to achieve something? no, and if this is a classless game, then don't force PKers to harvest.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Tempest

[conavar]

1. wear enough armor so that all non-critical damage is absorbed. Armor only has a chance to break when damage is done to you, so if all non-crit damage is absorbed, you significantly reduce your armor break chances... depending on your toughness, this doesn't necessarily have to be full steel, could just be the torso piece with aug pants and leath boots, or just the greaves/cuisses with Ti chain, etc.

 

2. dont TS your def as much, you gotta weigh up if all the armor breaks and seemingly high HE/SR usage is worth that extra bit of def exp per hour. Sacrifice 10k def exp per hour by leaving your def 5 levels higher, you'll end up spending less time off replacing armors/resources and more time on spawn... works out as more exp in the end anyways.

Also, leaving your def high means you can safely use moon med (as opposed to uni), of which the 4 armor bonus from that is helpful in relation to point 1.

 

Good points korrode, the non-crit damage isnt the problem lol, fluffs seem to crit hit alot more than they used to ( and speaking to people ingame ,im not the only one who as noticed this ), and my p/c, toughness are higher than the "normal" recommended fluff training level and makes no differance.

 

I dont Ts my def at all just my att ( I like to keep my a/d levels the same).

 

TBH somedays its like "omg skeptic must be knackered" (but thats a differant topic)

 

On topic:

 

MY post wasnt a moan ( well a little ) and I will continue to train a/d regardless. It was just to add a few facts about loss vs gain of training, to stop all the "greedy pkers" comments.

Not greedy , but just be nice to make a profit with our chosen skill, like most others do... but prices keep going up and drops keep going down so cant see that happening

 

 

 

@ Temp : Pretty 100% spot on with you points

 

(ever thought about the fact that this might also be one reason why "not many" new people are coming to EL? i mean, do people wanna harvest 8 hours to achieve something? no, and if this is a classless game, then don't force PKers to harvest.

 

If there was QOTW for most sensible things said, that would be it

 

TBH just so its not all about us high levels, I would be tempted to suggest that, rabbits,beavers and rats drop a little gold, not alot maybe only 1-3 gold, but just enough that new players are making money straight off the bat , without the normal channel 1 answer of " make money, BEST way is to harv flowers"

Edited April 17, 2008 by conavar

[Ermabwed]

Well, when comparing a/d with other skills, one has to include some more factors that play into profit than simply the fact that on some setups one doesn't make profit but mixers do.

 

For example: take experience per hour, consider supplies, consider the difference between ones current level and leveling item.

 

And a note to the comments regarding the economy: perhaps the guy that logs everything and has all the numbers aka Entropy knows whether the people with hundred thousands of gc worth of armor and weapons in storage need more money

[Tempest]

Well, when comparing a/d with other skills, one has to include some more factors that play into profit than simply the fact that on some setups one doesn't make profit but mixers do.

 

For example: take experience per hour, consider supplies, consider the difference between ones current level and leveling item.

 

And a note to the comments regarding the economy: perhaps the guy that logs everything and has all the numbers aka Entropy knows whether the people with hundred thousands of gc worth of armor and weapons in storage need more money

k, then first of all, please tell me what experience is good for if no1 PKs anyway, kill yetis to lose the good armor someone bought for pking? when you mixers get exp, you can make higher stuff and get profit. potion gives profit, 7gc each for srs for example. and since people level with them i think making 5k srs a day gives you enough profit to level more. (btw, 7gc each profit with harvesting flowers by urself, which is very easy since u got them right next to MM stor.)

the more exp a fighter gets, the higher monsters he has to train, and the more armor he breaks for crap drops like silver rings. PK? oh no sorry i forgot, not many ppl can PK cuz of that.

 

you can NOT compare a/d to any other skill. and having 100k armor doesnt mean you'r rich.

Compare your stor to mine, and you see what i mean.. i'm sure there's at least 5 mill gc difference.

 

 

EDIT: just saw tiruns post after learners, really really good points in it about PK/training.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Tempest

[korrode]

Just for once ever lets do whats actually going to make the game more fun.

 

Just this once, eh?

 

Unlike many other PK related topics, the PK'ers are NOT split on this one.

There's not PK'ers that are for it, and PK'ers that are against it... at least, not a ~half and half split.

It seems (blah blah vocal minority blah) that the bulk of PK'ers actually agree on this one, hows about we just try it!?

 

I mean, is anyone really going to argue that they know what will make PK more fun and active better than the PK'ers themselves?

Edited April 17, 2008 by Korrode

[Ermabwed]

you can NOT compare a/d to any other skill.

But yet, that is exactly what you are doing here

Can I make 300k exp per hour on SRs? No.

If I pay people to get me the ingredients and am lucky to find people that want to buy the amounts of SRs I need to level, my profit is nowhere near 7gc:

vial: 6gc, bq: 2gc, wine (let's say I find somebody to haul): 1.2gc-2gc, 2 bsf: 1gc (and why should I want to harvest them just because it's easy, if you want to compare stuff, do it right), food: 2.3gc. Total cost: 12.5-13.3gc, NPC/player buys at 13/14gc, profit: -0.3 to 1.5gc per SR. Now I break a mortar & pestle every 300 SRs (in theory), taking off 65-100gc from the whooping -90 to 450gc I made with 300 SRs.

 

Holy shit! My profit harvesting would be so much better!

 

and having 100k armor doesn't mean you're rich.

I wonder: CoL, great sword and greaves?

What I meant was the players with at least two sets of different armor, multiple great swords etc. but you knew that If people are so poor, why isn't there a "PK in leathers" movement? Oh yea, it's that pwnage thing, the need to have the latest and best equipment possible, 500kgc for that piece of armor that gives slightly better stats and then 180k for that item that gives me a chance to destroy the same item if the opponent has it... Why don't I have a helicopter that takes me to work every day?

 

I'm all for making the game more fun for all involved but as was mentioned above: gc drops won't go up insanely high and if they don't go up insanely high, this measure won't attract more players to PK.

Go for it, try it. Make an open contest: Training in Thelinor, occupy all spawns, participants must enter without gc (report at map/pk entries and underworld), whoever holds a spawn at the end of the contest gets his total income quintupled.

[Tempest]

But yet, that is exactly what you are doing here

Can I make 300k exp per hour on SRs? No.

If I pay people to get me the ingredients and am lucky to find people that want to buy the amounts of SRs I need to level, my profit is nowhere near 7gc:

vial: 6gc, bq: 2gc, wine (let's say I find somebody to haul): 1.2gc-2gc, 2 bsf: 1gc (and why should I want to harvest them just because it's easy, if you want to compare stuff, do it right), food: 2.3gc. Total cost: 12.5-13.3gc, NPC/player buys at 13/14gc, profit: -0.3 to 1.5gc per SR. Now I break a mortar & pestle every 300 SRs (in theory), taking off 65-100gc from the whooping -90 to 450gc I made with 300 SRs.

 

Holy shit! My profit harvesting would be so much better!

vials are 5gc at npc, i just bought 18k bq for 1,5gc each. wine is 0,75 at NPC, and you don't need to include some1 helping u carry in ur calc, wine is 2 emu and i dont calc players refilling me at feros either. all c1 flowers like bls/lilacs/bsf etc are 0,5 and not 1 gc each. NPC buys SRS for 14gc. lets ur whole calculation look pretty different doesnt it ;p (it takes 1 minute to harvest 1k BSF btw, and like 1 and a half second to get it to stor, seriously.)

 

5(vial) + 1,5(bq) + 0,75(wine) + 2,3(food) + 2 bsf (0,5ea) = 10,55gc... 3,45gc each profit on srs. i didnt calculate the mortars, cause you didnt calc the EMPs you get either.

 

Mixers = can harv there own stuff and mix it, or possibly buy the stuff and mix it and get constant exp/gc income, they break mortars etc but they still get profit.

 

Fighters = are forced to harv for their armor, they go in PK, buy stuff from mixers and waste an incredible amount of gc in the game, they break their armor while training, while pking, they use pots/ess/rings/capes/meds/summon stones etc etc etc + there is no way to make GC with the a/d skill in any way.

 

and you really tell me thats fair? i know some stuff out of your stor and surely won't mention it here you know, but what i saw is basicly 3-4 times as much as i have in total, and i'm not really dead broke. (that's a different thing to, i had a smart idea ;p)

 

I wonder: CoL, great sword and greaves?

What I meant was the players with at least two sets of different armor, multiple great swords etc. but you knew that If people are so poor, why isn't there a "PK in leathers" movement? Oh yea, it's that pwnage thing, the need to have the latest and best equipment possible, 500kgc for that piece of armor that gives slightly better stats and then 180k for that item that gives me a chance to destroy the same item if the opponent has it... Why don't I have a helicopter that takes me to work every day?

 

I'm all for making the game more fun for all involved but as was mentioned above: gc drops won't go up insanely high and if they don't go up insanely high, this measure won't attract more players to PK.

Go for it, try it. Make an open contest: Training in Thelinor, occupy all spawns, participants must enter without gc (report at map/pk entries and underworld), whoever holds a spawn at the end of the contest gets his total income quintupled.

k, people worked for their armor, and they use it for PK (no pk action atm tho), they got their gc with mostly harvesting or doing $$/gc or whatever. there is no PK in leathers movement, why? cuz some noob always will come with better armor and pwn the others. i bet everyone would agree to PK in leather if there wouldnt be 1 fag who would come and crush it all again ;p but thats no solution either, PKers dont wanna get forced to harvest,or to PK in low level armor or anything else. Potioners are neither forced to do tailoring, are they?

 

and if higher drops on PK maps dont help, tell me what helps then please.. every good aspect or money income of PKing/training already got removed, and learner comes up with something like "greedy pkers" :/

 

 

 

EDIT: and erma, i think you still didn't get 1 point. The more exp a mixer gets, the higher items he can make like TS pots for pot, summon stones for sum, rings/meds for crafting. and what does exp do for fighters? PK is pretty empty, so the only thing they can do with exp is move on higher monsters like chims, which are worse drops than fluffy + break tons of armor more. harvesting again for armor... ftw!

 

EDIT to schmurk: yes sorry, forgot that :/ and the good amount of gc you talk about is like 500gc. (oh yeah and let's not forget the good drops like.... iron battle hammers....)

Edited April 18, 2008 by Tempest

[Schmurk]

Hum, sorry to interfere but I think you forgot something Tempest. Well first your calculation is a bit wrong (a SR need 2 bsf and the total is ~10.55gc) but that's not the problem...

 

If you count the cooldown of the feasting potion, you can't make more than 1800 SRs per hour which is totally unreachable anyway. So it's very hard to go over 120k xp per hour. According to this, you can also do the same by serping/training weaker monsters and win a good amount of gc while breaking/using very little stuff, isn't it?