New limited PK level maps/areas

[Tempest]

WARNING: Flamey POST

 

 

First, the problems about PK is not with the players, its totally with the devs. Heres my reasons:

 

1.Fcw and flufs in KF so lower people just dont go there.

2.Merc in KF which is totally pointless

3.Reducing yeti drops and strengthening it so players couldnt get any incomes to USE them in PK's.

4.Implementing high class items such as great swords and titanium sets resulted in decreasing the number of players in PK's because every gc income is almost gone.

5.Recently tigers exp were lowered so people cant get enough money to use it on PK again.

6.Made nexus removals and hydro nexuses so million dollar babies got stronger

7.Cooldown suxorz

8.PK is unprofitable now with the best brick maker of ROSTOGOL stones

9.Nothing makes people to go live the fun of PK becuase of its damage to players is extremely high.

 

 

Still thinking the problem is with the players...?

 

Regards,

-Kad

1) totally right. Newbies can't go to KF like before, all people under 80 a/d basicly get slaughtered like nothing there.

2) yeh, i mean placing mercury which is heavy as hell in a PK map and then placing the stor in the middle of biggest map of whole EL is not really smart

3) 160gc average drop for a monster that few people can train and which breaks tons of armor... lolz lolz. (not to mention that tit cuisses as a drop got removed, NMT drop was lowered very much and the only shit they drop is silver rings...)

5) very true too, basicly the only good income that was left for Pkers after all the others got crushed badly. and now this one is kinda removed too. and since the summon stones are cheaper now PK is even more a summoning festival now. people want to pk not fight bears, they can go to NC for that.

9) Pkers break more armor than everything, NDD invasions... no drops but tons of broken armor, i mean where the hell is the fun? no1 should wonder why people dont go there, people go PK cause this day is the only fun day for them in PK

 

and to the other points... every single point listed by Kadlub is totally right.

stop crushing PK to get the economy higher, killing one of the nicest aspect of many people in the game just sucks.

Nearly all skills are money losses nowadays. lvl depended arenas won't even help a little.

 

 

EDIT: let's not forget about all the mana burn/cooldown stuff etc etc. Short fights suck, the only good step against it was the cap which allowed people to have few more mana. i think i'm talkin for the most if i say people want long & exciting fights, and fights where they see "ahhh, he doesn't summon a zoo on me i can actually fight him longer than 10 seconds"

Edited April 11, 2008 by Tempest

[Kaddy]

stop crushing PK to get the economy higher, killing one of the nicest aspect of many people in the game just sucks.

 

 

I wonder if there is a ECONOMY ingame where everything is unprofitable unless you dont make rare items...

[conavar]

3.Reducing yeti drops and strengthening it so players couldnt get any incomes to USE them in PK's.

 

Very true, but it also counts for any monster fluff and above now, and also adds to the " why should I train past dp arena" syndrome.

 

When I first started a/d training , it was ooo cool cant wait to get to fluffs and get a decent drop to make money, then when you get to fluffs/feros all the good drops have been removed ( or that low a chance they might as well have been removed) and your still training at a loss. So to suplement your training/pk you have to harv,alch etc, which takes time, time that could be spent training or in PK.

Then dp players might think " no point training to fluffs , they dont drop shit, might as well stay on lower mobs which drop more ",

maybe its me but I always thought in games such as this , the higher level creature you got the better and more often the drops ... not less.

 

I know Ent doesnt want to get back to the nmt situation with fluffs/feros, but another decent drop could be added and more often.. a lot of people need an incentive to train rather than just xp

[Tempest]

right, imagine you break ur tit plate... 70kgc gone if you got it really cheap (less than ingredents cost)

have fun harvesting 7 hours to get your tit plate back

 

Eternal Lands has no fixed classes or professions

well, if fighters wanna go PK they have to go harvest some days to probably get armor back they lost in less than an hour.

 

 

Conavar, i totally agree with your point.

Edited April 11, 2008 by Tempest

[TirunCollimdus]

I would say if we are going to have level limited arenas then Thelinor seems to be the place to make them. Remove all PK areas except for KF, Thelinor, Hulda, 1 particular cave in the Imbroglio Islands and a few secret areas. Then you have the few secret places most of which are not very close to storage that PvPers could use. The PKers would have a very limited area to hunt each other. The arenas would give the people who wanted to climb up the ranks places to fight.

 

I think anyone saying that the problem is the attitude of most PKers in game need to realize they are the very vocal minority. If the problems is that no one has the balls to PK then obviously the way PK works is not what most of the people who would PK want. If you try to force people to grow balls and PK all you are going to get is even fewer PKers. I mean honestly can you really sit there and say that the players who don't want to fight the way things are now are the problem? If it is the majority of the players not wanting to fight the way things are now then how can they be the problem? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink so stop beating this dead one please.

 

The game has changed with the new equipment and the reduced drops. Entropy taking so much money out of the economy has made it impossible for anyone to afford anything that they do no make themselves. There are a couple of ways to make gold coin fighting that actually pays for itself but those are not good experience at all. Entropy says there is up to 1 mill gold coming into the game every day. 1 person can loose 1 mill gold worth of stuff on a bad day. Sounds like no one can afford anything. Even if it is 10 people who loose 1 mill gold worth of stuff(very easy to do) what about everyone else? Expansion is the key to success in every economy. Trying to reduce an economy kills it every time.

If the majority of people who would PK don't want to PK the way it is then why is anyone at all asking for more of the same? The PK city at least is a new idea. It builds a road to the higher levels. If someone actively PKs at the same arena and owns it because they are built to own it instead of actually continue leveling then you make them PKable for a week at a time until they stop. When options are available and someone wants to actively destroy those options they are a noob ruining the game for others. Stop them.

 

You cannot tell everyone to go out and get pawned by uber people and expect them to do it. Could it be that people want to PK along the way instead of just train up to 100+ a/d before they start PKing? Why tell them they can't? Let people have a way to PK before getting to 100+ a/d and attract more new players. Entropy is NOT going back to no rostos. PK is not going back to the way it was. We need a new way to do things and I have not seen any ideas that are better than the PK city.

 

Tirun

 

PS Peino stole the long poster crown from me a while back. This may be longer than some but it isn't near Peino or some others.

Edited April 11, 2008 by TirunCollimdus

[Kidberg]

FYI: When you post novels on forums, most people skip over them. Summarize your post in a paragraph or 2, not a novel please.

 

I agree with some of the points mentioned. Drops do suck nowadays. Most people pvp just because its not worth it to monster train anymore. They pvp using less essences/pots and making the same if not more exp/hour. Pkers do no have any source of income. I make maps/def files during my free time for guild maps just so I can have some sort of income, if it wasnt for that, Id be BROKE. I've pondered the economy of EL the past few weeks and it seriously needs a changing. I made an alt and he cannot make a profit at all unless he does everything himself including harvesting etc. Im not an economy specialist or w/e the f*** they are called so I'm not even gonna try to tell you how to fix it.

[TirunCollimdus]

FYI: When you post novels on forums, most people skip over them. Summarize your post in a paragraph or 2, not a novel please.

 

It was longer than I intended but not nearly as long as several others. I just bolded the important stuff so people could skim and read back or forward. Better?

 

Tirun

[peino]

FYI: When you post novels on forums, most people skip over them. Summarize your post in a paragraph or 2, not a novel please.

Hehe, that's what the bold type is for. It's like the headlines and sub-heads in a news article -- skimmers can get the basic gist from the bolded lines, and those with time can get the details from the rest.

 

Oldschooly, Tempest, Conavar, Tirun and you all make excellent points. I think Tirun pretty much cleared up the bottom line -- if everyone has a problem with the system, then the problem is with the system. Time to rethink it, not do more of it. So to try to get positive again and answer Ent's question, I say again:

 

Put ALL leveled arenas in a PK City in Thelinor, along the lines of the layout in this thread. Connect Thelinor to KF. Keep just a couple of no-limit PK maps and arenas for open warfare and PvP (I'd like to keep TD because the old school set up makes it different enough to be interesting). And take the critcisms here seriously and try to rethink the things that encourage people to stop leveling or are obstacles to new people getting into PK.

 

As for the economy, I don't know anything about running that, but I do know that an economy where every person has to be totally self-sufficient and do everything for themselves, is not an economy.

 

Yours,

Peino Ereonis, Novelist Laureate of EL.

Edited April 12, 2008 by peino

[Wizzy]

Turin and others have a good point, lets not forget most economys can expect/experience inflation, or de-valuvation on a currency.

[masterpiter]

right, imagine you break ur tit plate... 70kgc gone if you got it really cheap (less than ingredents cost)

have fun harvesting 7 hours to get your tit plate back

1) Its smarter to train in steel plate- cheaper, bigger dmg reduction and negative accuracy.

2) I dont know any person who can make 10k gc per hour when harvesting, even with crazy high emu i had before 48cap i made something around 7k gc/h on iron, now with 960 emu im sure its less

 

Wont comment any posts of ppl who never pked, never saw any1 pking nor asked a pker about pking but still writing here books for some reason

 

mp

[Kaddy]

Can someone plz change Tirun's status from Fox to 'Novel Writer' ?

[Tempest]

right, imagine you break ur tit plate... 70kgc gone if you got it really cheap (less than ingredents cost)

have fun harvesting 7 hours to get your tit plate back

1) Its smarter to train in steel plate- cheaper, bigger dmg reduction and negative accuracy.

2) I dont know any person who can make 10k gc per hour when harvesting, even with crazy high emu i had before 48cap i made something around 7k gc/h on iron, now with 960 emu im sure its less

 

Wont comment any posts of ppl who never pked, never saw any1 pking nor asked a pker about pking but still writing here books for some reason

 

mp

if u want high def like u have yeh, i was not talkin about whats better for training tho. even if you breakl steelplate you need like 7 hours or so to get it back.

and yeh i agree with your last sentence, it's very true...

 

@MP (i tried, and i harv ~ 4,8k coal/hour so i calced ~10kgc/hour)

Edited April 12, 2008 by Tempest

[Ermabwed]

Wont comment any posts of ppl who never pked, never saw any1 pking nor asked a pker about pking but still writing here books for some reason

Too bad, they raise some interesting points though and unlike a lot (not all) of other people posting on this thread they actually provide some reasoning to their points. Some people have to realize that bullshit stays bullshit no matter how often and loud they claim it's gold.

 

If you want more people to PK then you can't just keep on disregarding the opinions of people that might pk as worthless. That's kind of like saying "You don't know how to write, there's no place in pre-school/school for you."

 

A couple of things I want to add on topic:

• I don't think PK city will happen, the reason is simple: the goal of distributing 'resources' (meant in a very general sense) is to make maps more used, concentrating PK in one place would work against that. Also would require a redesign of an existing map or a new map, which doesn't seem to be the intention of Entropy here.
  
• I don't think a 100 arena is really needed, people should be able to learn how to PK in the arenas up to a+d-38<=80 unless the "TS effect" gets disabled in level limited arenas.
  
• I agree with the people saying Naralik arena should be moved, the orcs in the catacombs and the seemingly long way deter players; maybe there's a good spot outside in Naralik itself.
  
• It's really up to players to get moving if they want more PK:
  
  • if you want cheap pk, organise with similar minded people and pk in leather etc. there are enough spots, if people in "high end gear" show up, get out, see how much they have without anybody to fight; see asgnny's post on how fun it is to have people running from you
    
  • if you want "fair" fights, see above
    
  • if you want arenas to get used more, see if people in your guild want to give it a try or ask friendly guilds... (another plus: no flames, or you should reconsider your guild policies ), start hanging out there or do whatever DPA chars do to get a fight there...
    
  • ... and so on, I could say raise some points regarding some of the already PKing folks but it looks like despite their cries about pk being dead they do not seek ways to change that
    

PS: if you disagree and PK, just ignore this post since I don't PK.

[Kaddy]

Believe me Erma, we did everything to change it, but the features of EL doesnt let us....

 

 

Everything we suggest to encourage people to PK is thought to be "making game easier" and got rejected. The implements to make the game "harder" resulted in making the game impossible to PK...

 

Not many people left that PK's for only fun...

 

Only DoA'ers (which i respect them much) and a few others...

[FatboyJaxx]

I think I am a perfect example of the people most of you seem to hate (but also the people that could make PK more active if there were some changes). I only really PK on NDD and I don't even bother going every NDD. My main reason for this is it's too expensive! I do lots of skills other than fighting and some of them are gc sinks. At the end of the day I just don't have the income required to PK all the time and a NDD once a week is more than enough for me to have to spend at least a week regaining the items I used/broke in that one day (EMP's/acc/eva pots/armour/weapons). I really enjoy the invasions as well and they are much cheaper because I can wear NMT without fear of it being broded by some git so, because they are cheaper and still a lot of fun I partcipate in them instead of PK.

 

If PK was cheaper I would do it more!

 

 

As for level limited arenas in one map such as thelinor, I think it would increase the amount of PK. I have to agree that people are so spread out now that even if ther were 10-20 people looking for PK at any one time they're likely not to find each other and concentrating PK into a small area will create more action.

[masterpiter]

If PK was cheaper I would do it more!

Like many other ppl would, and dont say they wouldnt coz they did it when it wasnt so expensive.

 

even if ther were 10-20 people looking for PK at any one time they're likely not to find each other and concentrating PK into a small area will create more action.

So 300-700 players online and only 10-20 of them want/like/can do pking, imho game should be changed so there is at least 100-200 players ready to pk all the time, still wont be the majority of players but at least fair part, not the minority like now.

PKers r good for the game

 

mp

[Cycloonx]

Only reason people don't pk is because:

 

- Fights are too short

- No level caps, people prefer to keep training because they always get pwned by someone anyway in pk

- No drops because of rosto

 

Yea now bash me because i'm not a pker, but I'm pretty sure those things kill pking ingame. You can say there is td, but td doesn't work when there are other maps where you can use rosto, if rosto would be gone, i'm pretty sure more people would pk.

[Kaddy]

Who said PK is dead??!?!?!

 

 

http://kaddyrulez.pictiger.com/images/14860834/

http://kaddyrulez.pictiger.com/images/14860953/

Edited April 12, 2008 by OldySchooly

[peino]

If you want more people to PK then you can't just keep on disregarding the opinions of people that might pk as worthless. That's kind of like saying "You don't know how to write, there's no place in pre-school/school for you."

Heh, yeah. It amazes me when people claim to want to expand PK but totally disrespect the views of potential PKers. To me it's like someone is trying to sell shoes. Customers come and say, "We would buy your shoes if you offered them in more sizes so we could get a fit." And the shoe seller responds with, "What the hell do you know? You never made a shoe in your life. I'm not even going to listen to you."

 

I'm also amazed at how some people assume we have never PK'd anywhere and never even seen PK in EL. Oh, well, whatever.

 

Your on-topic points are very good. I think the PK city should be done, but I don't really care if it is or isn't, because of the points you made about how PKers could use the existing maps the way they want, if they wanted to. If I could find duelists like myself who are anywhere close to me in level, I'd be fighting every week in remote locations. But I guess some PKers don't believe that, or don't think it matters.

[Mango]

If you want more people to PK then you can't just keep on disregarding the opinions of people that might pk as worthless. That's kind of like saying "You don't know how to write, there's no place in pre-school/school for you."

Heh, yeah. It amazes me when people claim to want to expand PK but totally disrespect the views of potential PKers. To me it's like someone is trying to sell shoes. Customers come and say, "We would buy your shoes if you offered them in more sizes so we could get a fit." And the shoe seller responds with, "What the hell do you know? You never made a shoe in your life. I'm not even going to listen to you."

 

I'm also amazed at how some people assume we have never PK'd anywhere and never even seen PK in EL. Oh, well, whatever.

 

Your on-topic points are very good. I think the PK city should be done, but I don't really care if it is or isn't, because of the points you made about how PKers could use the existing maps the way they want, if they wanted to. If I could find duelists like myself who are anywhere close to me in level, I'd be fighting every week in remote locations. But I guess some PKers don't believe that, or don't think it matters.

 

Cracked me up big time, couldnt read any further!! LOL

[robotbob]

Only reason people don't pk is because:

 

- Fights are too short

 

What actual information is this comment based on?

 

Since the caps fights are very long. Whenever I fight alparslan or others I

can almost hear my hair go grey. I've easily experienced fights 5-10 mins in length.

 

- No level caps, people prefer to keep training because they always get pwned by someone anyway in pk

 

So a level cap will fix this correct? Its capped at 150 so therefore everyone is now equal huh?

So the person at 100ad doesn't have to train anymore?

 

- No drops because of rosto

 

Go to TD, and see how totally groundless this is. Anyone there? I've spent an hour there

mixing with fruit

 

Wont comment any posts of ppl who never pked, never saw any1 pking nor asked a pker about pking but still writing here books for some reason icon4.gif

 

For those who do not understand mps comment let me elaborate.

[Feel free to let you eyes glaze over, and skip this part if the top comment is of no interest to you ]

 

First lets define a non-pker.

Non-Pker is someone who does not, on a regular basis, enter a player killing map, armed with the intention of fighting, killing,

defeating a player or players. This does not include unarmed runs, harvesting, or 3 second peeks into a map.

 

Therefore, non-pkers opinions can only address "What makes the activity appeal to a non participant, and how to

adjust it to make participation from non pkers into pkers more common"

 

However, a non-pker opinion has no merit on the state of the activity (player killing)such as; duration of fights,

the overall difficulty, the daily cost, alliances, etc...

 

SO, for a non participant to make giant general statements without a basis, will not further this

discussion and only lead to a LOOP debate between participants and non-participants.

 

I can make all of my opinions based on observation on the skill of Tailoring (I have a tailor skill of zero), and what

would make me 'tailor', but lilcnoots, cissysauce's experience in the 'state' of those skills are far more valid.

 

Unless something changes, any discussion on this will lead us right back to this loop debate

between non-pkers and pkers on the future of 'player killing' in Eternal Lands.

 

(Don't believe me? sample all the pking activity threads, the most vocal are the non participants)

 

 

-robotbob

[larrystorch]

Go to TD, and see how totally groundless this is. Anyone there? I've spent an hour there

mixing with fruit

 

Tell me about it. I wander TD at times for over an hour and rarely see anyone. I just end up killing everything I come across for gc and the occasional drop.

 

I say get rid of arenas. I dont PK all the time, but when I do, I would at least like to see someone to kill or be killed by.

[FatboyJaxx]

So 300-700 players online and only 10-20 of them want/like/can do pking, imho game should be changed so there is at least 100-200 players ready to pk all the time, still wont be the majority of players but at least fair part, not the minority like now.

PKers r good for the game

 

mp

 

 

Yep, that's how it is though and imo it's because it's too expensive. Last NDD I lost well over 100kgc in items like pots and broken armours etc. Most people cannot afford losses like this all the time (myself included) wiithout either spending lots of real $$$ on the game or spending a lot of time ingame making gc.

 

Due to this being a "free" mmorpg the sort of person drawn to a game like this are generally people less likely to want to part with real money to play the game. Therefore a lot people only really have the option of spending most of their time ingame making gc if they want to PK, and many don't want to do this sooo..... They don't PK.

 

Obviously there are other reasons for people being drawn to EL and a lot of people stay because of the community available but many start purely because it is free.

 

And to all you who say people need to get some balls for PK.... What a load of bollocks, I quite happily and indeed actively go for people stronger than me on NDD, however, it costs a lot more than fighting someone your own level or lower so somtimes you may as well dis/tele earlier rather than later if you don't want to just pour gc down the drain. :s

 

Yours sincerely,

 

A humble player who enjoys PK but cannot afford to do it as much as he would like.

 

 

EDIT : A final point. If you want to make PK more active, make it cheaper. People will still spend smaller amounts of gc/$ in the same time PKing but they will PK more often therefore PK in general will be more active and the same amount of gc/$ will be poured into the game.

Edited April 12, 2008 by FatboyJaxx

[LeoI]

possibly another ridiculous idea from me, so ignore this post if it is ^^

 

what about getting rid of a/d limited arenas completely and making it so that you can only attack ppl within 19 a/d levels of you?

it makes ppl less scared of getting killed by ppl too much stronger than them but it might be a little unfair to the top a/d ppl, so maybe only being only able to attack ppl within 19 combat levels of you?

 

with combat levels it makes pking much more even and still plenty of ppl around for everyone to attack. it stops the newbies getting pk abused and everyones happy.

 

im prepared for whatever flames i get here

[Dushan]

That would suck badly ^^