New limited PK level maps/areas

[conavar]

I also think there shouldn't be a 100 a/d arena, thats just going to make even less PK for those in the Top50-70 ranked players.

 

Good point but also works for everyone. With the introduction of 40-80 capped arena's there are in theory less ppl to PK for Top 200-100 ranked players, unless you always want to fight people stronger than you, so for me there is only one solution: Make more capped arena's OR get rid of all of them

 

Temp made a good point the Radu should think about the pkers..... very true , but all pkers not just the top 50.

 

 

 

 

Note: players keep going on about :" O poor newbs crying that they get killed by pkers 20+ a/d higher", well crying works both ways, so if us newbs are crying then some (some not all) "pr0's" are just as guilty " omg I wont have any n00bs to kill and might have to actually fight someone my own strength".

 

So how about stopping trying to flame each other and answer Radu's post in a sensible constructive way.. hopefully not a to hard thing to do

Edited April 11, 2008 by conavar

[Kaddy]

So how about stopping trying to flame each other and answer Radu's post in a sensible constructive way.. hopefully not a to hard thing to do

 

 

Exactly, I think we have suggested alot of things as Ent asked us. We should just stop that useless flamewars and wait till Ent replies. Better solution I think because afaik he doesnt have so much time to read n00bie flames

 

Just stop it okey? For the sake of PK.

-Kad (L.A.)

[_lucifer_]

Well i think Korrode's idea is good but well not all

we dont need 40/60/80/100/120 arenas atm lol y arenas , not maps/parts of maps?

 

 

Kuusamura was PK map right???make it under 160 a+d

Make tirnym Map under 100 a+d map..so even ppl 119 a/d can fight there

Naralik arena aint used for anythhing coz not big diff with 60 a/d and 58 a/d and ts for DP...

Kilaran fields should stay as it is, Tahraji too...

 

and CD remove soxx...fights win that 1 who will have more emu (coz sr/HE)

Liek in TD ive fought Lorck like 10 minutes or so. then SR ends..pointless

 

 

 

Well all i have to suggest is some arenas with a/d limit of 10 a/d in every arena(or 20 tho).Then all the the arenas with limit from 20 to 30,30 to 40,40 to 50 and 50 to 60 should be at c1,From 50s a/d and then they should be other arenas at c2.finally in that arenas would be nice not working ts pots.By doing this 1.you don't have to spent much gc and 2.all can pk with some1 who has stats close to him.

 

Noob idea at all...

Diference should be 20 a/d's coz u an TS 19 a/d

ALso in c2 Leopard Alpha or smtn can kill u.. u rly think ppl 50 a/d would there for PK????

 

ok it should be 20 the difference(it's the same to me) but did i said that ppls would fight in that area?

[Tempest]

Just stop it okey? For the sake of PK.

-Kad (L.A.)

u wanna have NDD maps implemented so stop telling me "for the sake of PK".

u know, doesnt matter what Pkers say, exactly the opposite gets implemented.

and to make it clear, ur just fucking up pk more with it like the other 5 times people have been crying on forums.

with every "good" suggestion PK gets less filled, so what about some normal suggestion instead of Arenas for every 10-20 lvls?

 

Kadlub, tell me why would ent implement a map where he makes himself poor ? no rostos lost = no money, is that really so hard to understand?

and for seperating pk, again, it's not cause i can't kill noobs anymore, noobs dont even enter PK anymore so ur point is total bullshit. im gonna list 3 of like 10 points now why PK is dead.

 

1) VERY dumb idea to put merc in KF and the stor for it at the end of the world. tell me what noob runs to kf for 70 merc to carry it ~10 minutes to stor?

2) not really smart to make 20 PK arenas either, as you CAN see now, PK is splitted, 20 PK maps and in all maps there are like

max ~5 people a day, so if you can't see the problem there, ur either no PKer or you just wanna have fair fights so you don't take a risk of dieing.

3) more and more high lvl armor - i can understand the game needs to get out of beta, but with implementing more armor that's worth like 1 mill gc people won't even be able to fight higher levels anymore, everyone who can't afford that armor barely has any chance, except training like mad, and as you can see people already start bitching about getting like 10 million exp. 10 million is NOTHING, if you only train 3-4 hours a day you got lvl 80 in 14 days, and you guys cry like babies. (dont tell me with 80 a/d you cant do anything in pk, i had much weaker people ganging me 6on1)

4) Ent killed every good income of GC for the game. there are other ways to get gc out of the game instead of cutting the fighters resources. this is 1 of the main points why pk is dead.

 

 

 

@ kad again, this aint a flamewar, it's just my oppinion against crying noobs who have to be babysitted to not be killed by "z0mg ppl who have 10 more a/d"

 

@CRYING people under 100 a/d, you already got ur attribute cap which makes it alot easier, and your still crying, you got NDD's given so PK gets active a bit and now u want ND maps. i mean, are u serious?

 

 

EDIT: last post here, if you still didn't get it, i'll laugh at you once this is implemented and PK really is completly dead. (+ added the word Crying, else i get misunderstood like it happened with van ;p)

Edited April 11, 2008 by Tempest

[Wizzy]

Honesty, I think more resorces have to be placed in pk maps, then people would have motivation to risk themselves for the resorce. Thus more people killing and more people protecting the harvestors/gatherers. One example may be gypsum. (though people will get mad at me for saying this) Remove summmon stones from npc, place gypsum in a pk area. If fighters want there summon stones, they will have to work together with a pro summoner to make them. Perhaps hydro cave should also be pk? This may help stop the flood of hydro bars. Seridium may be another, or turquios for astro stones? Make some rare resorces pk areas. You could also make more of the fluffy/ogre spawns pk areas. So perhaps orgre spawns could be a 80 limit a/d pk area and fluffy spawns 110 limit pk area. Yetis etc would be unlimitied.

 

The only reason KF remains active as a pk area, is because newb merc farmers go in, people camp to kill them or they camp waiting for other pkers to come. This is only one resorce in KF, and that is mercury that draws people into the map. If merc was removed, KF would become very quiet except for a few people pvp/train DC.

[Mango]

Indeed, its kinda a must to have at least steel plate, to be able to battle in pk. Augmented could do too, but well.

 

The armos get more and more expensive. But faster ways of earning gc.. hell no. If something is too much gc (yeti), they just get reduced in drops, and made 10 times stronger. ( +sucky xp)

[Vanyel]

@people under 100 a/d, you already got ur attribute cap which makes it alot easier, and your still crying, you got NDD's given so PK gets active a bit and now u want ND maps. i mean, are u serious?

 

 

wtf?!

My a/d is below 100/100 and I don't remember myself crying here. On the contrary, I pointed out that making more level limited areas may end with the effect opposite to expected one. Personally, I'd go for one of Conovar's suggestion - remove all capped arenas.

[Kidberg]

fyi, a/d doesnt 100% revolve around pk, k? k.

 

Umm maybe I'm mistaken but I didnt say it did? And if maybe you should look in the f***ing mirror about what you just said.

 

I also think there shouldn't be a 100 a/d arena, thats just going to make even less PK for those in the Top50-70 ranked players.

 

Good point but also works for everyone. With the introduction of 40-80 capped arena's there are in theory less ppl to PK for Top 200-100 ranked players, unless you always want to fight people stronger than you, so for me there is only one solution: Make more capped arena's OR get rid of all of them

 

Temp made a good point the Radu should think about the pkers..... very true , but all pkers not just the top 50.

 

Note: players keep going on about :" O poor newbs crying that they get killed by pkers 20+ a/d higher", well crying works both ways, so if us newbs are crying then some (some not all) "pr0's" are just as guilty " omg I wont have any n00bs to kill and might have to actually fight someone my own strength".

 

So how about stopping trying to flame each other and answer Radu's post in a sensible constructive way.. hopefully not a to hard thing to do

 

I'd much rather fight someone around my strength, the problem is, no one around my strength wants to fight me....... Pretty stupid eh? There is but a handful of people around my levels that ever fight me. Back again to grow some balls and go pk theory.

 

And everyone goes on the fact that if someone thinks they cant win, why go in? To my comprehension of fights....the basic ending in almost every battle is that 1 person wins....1 person loses. I think thats how it goes, pls pls correct me if I'm wrong. The way it is now...1 person sits in the arena with 20 others outside (or sits in kf while 20 others piled at entrance). I guess they dont understand if they try to work together they could take someone above their levels. Strategy is key.

Edited April 11, 2008 by Kidberg

[Cazuza]

...

Edited April 19, 2008 by Cazuza

[XaRondas]

I like the idea of capped arenas or ....maps

I don t want everytime i step in a non-cap arena/or map, high a/d attacking me (instead of pking each other) just to score a *noob*kill and get a small #pki

but the problems of pk are many and this isn t a thread to discuss about them

 

The only thing i have to say is that instead of pk arenas we can have pk maps but the smaller ones where a pontetial pker can find another, like KF is, there its easier to have a fight than another big pk map...

 

Anyway my suggestion is for a pk semi map with cap ie 100 a/d : EVTR southern region ...always crowed as a map ...a storage nearby and of course close to underworld

 

Thank u

Xarondas

Edited April 11, 2008 by draugluin1

[masterpiter]

I smell more flames coming soon, topic gets spicey

[Tempest]

The only reason KF remains active as a pk area, is because newb merc farmers go in, people camp to kill them or they camp waiting for other pkers to come. This is only one resorce in KF, and that is mercury that draws people into the map. If merc was removed, KF would become very quiet except for a few people pvp/train DC.

and there we have the post of a non pker, i could bet my ass on that.

you dont even know a single bit about what you are talking, merc is ALWAYS full when i'm there, no people go there to get merc, check market channel for who is selling Death essences and you see what i mean.

 

wtf?!

My a/d is below 100/100 and I don't remember myself crying here. On the contrary, I pointed out that making more level limited areas may end with the effect opposite to expected one. Personally, I'd go for one of Conovar's suggestion - remove all capped arenas.

i wasn't refering to you, i was talkin about the people who cry like "z0mg 10 a/d higher pwns me make me arena ent!~!!"

[mags]

If people don't like the idea off getting killed!! Then why go into a PK map??

[Daejin]

All Maps PK, with safe areas!

[Mango]

All Maps PK, with safe areas!

 

Full char+storage wipe, then your suggestion would so rock.

[Tempest]

If people don't like the idea off getting killed!! Then why go into a PK map??

pr0est post in this whole thread.

[conavar]

All Maps PK, with safe areas!

 

or join the pk server

 

@ Temp : If all the reason you stated are true and cause the death of pk, then adding 100 arena ,isnt going to make alot of differance.

 

and you missed the main reason for lack of pk action : to many strong players in to few guilds and then those few guilds are all allied to one another, so either all set everyone to neutral ( then DOa can fight Ca$h, HIM v L.a etc etc) or next NDD all leave are guilds for the day and have a free for all in KF

[robotbob]

I agree with asgnny 100% also, same for my preference for PvE, etc...

 

I do see alot of:

 

I [playername] would like level limited arenas [just slightly above my current ad] so

  I can pk 'fairly' [so I can stop leveling ad] So I have a chance to learn to pk [so I don't risk anything].

  I think it will increase pk [so I can 'neg out' and own this arena without making a character for dpa].

  It will be alot of fun [only if I am totally 'owning' the arena, if not I'll post about it].

 

I mention this before, games with graduated pk areas, result in players making many characters

specialized for these arenas. We speak of level limited arenas in a totally naive way, as if people

will pk on one and only one character.

 

Can we say that Desert Pines Arena (level limit 40) helped pk in anyway? I've created a

completely specialize 'negged out' character there in the past, and I just -wholesale slaughtered-

any real newbie that came to the arena. That arena for the past year and still is dominated by

specialized characters design to rule the arena. The current top <=40 character are own by very experienced

pkers and not actual beginners.None of them have any intention of leveling past that arena or

entering another arena.

 

So lets look at the logistics of it.

 

Average players online max: ~700

Percentage of those people engaging in PK maps: ?

Number of Pk Areas: ?

You cannot make something more active by spreading it out.

 

Example: Why are their more than one Storage NPC? or General Store?

 

Because one Storage for the whole game would be so crowded it wouldn't

be functional.

 

However this is precisely what we want for pk, a single crowded area.

 

That is why I am in favor of removing all arenas, and focusing on 2 maps,

namely Kilarin Field (KF) and Thelinor. (If any arena remains it should be the once

active but now dead WSA, enough seating for observers and a inside map)

 

I know this a thread -pro- level limited arenas, but I seriously think this will lead to

an expansion of the DP arena problem only.

 

Two finally points to the counter arguments:

 

• For those that insist level limited arenas will give pkers a chance to 'grow up out of DPa'I refer you the above codeblock. The truth is a properly motivated person should be able to go from 0-100ad
  very fast, (I could supply plenty of names of who has done this, but I don't want to give stats away).
  
• Second, the best teacher is failure, you cannot become a better anything by totally controlling one arena
  in this or any game. So I assert you cannot learn to 'pk' this way. I learn more from the 'skin of my teeth' mass
  battles in KF than from any single (30-60 secs) pk encounter.
  

(I'd better stop typing before I break any tirun's records )

 

-robotbob

[peino]

All Maps PK, with safe areas!

 

Full char+storage wipe, then your suggestion would so rock.

And you could call it the PK Server.

 

OK, ahem...

 

Comments from a non-PKer who would PK if things were different... (Yes, another giant post from Peino. Sorry, but I need to lay out all the thinking behind my arguments. YOU CAN SKIP THE EXPLANATIONS BY GOING RIGHT TO THE BOLDED PARTS.)

 

I like playing games with other people, not just in the vicinity of other people. If EL were a different kind of place, I would be fighting players for fun pretty regularly and burning through gear and deaths with no flames aside from a joke now and then. Not every day -- I don't like it that much -- but at least once a week I'd hang out in TD, Thel or an arena.

 

But I don't. Not because I'm "afraid" or lack "balls." What is there to be afraid of? We're just playing with toys here. It's not like, if you lose at PK, someone is going to come to your house and break your arm and steal your money for the sake of realism.

 

The reason I don't PK is because I like a different style from what most EL PKers like. I like fair fight duels. The kind where players of close-to-equal levels fight one-on-one, using combinations of armor, weapons, and magic to beat each other. I like fights to the death where dropped items are the winner's prize (no rostos/no dissing). I like call-out dueling, where outsiders don't interfere in a private fight. It's just me and my opponent, to the end, winner take all. I've learned that most PKers in EL think I'm crazy to like that kind of play, but the style of PK that EL does have is just pointless to me, so I've pretty much given up on it and settled down to PvE play instead.

 

The reason I'm saying all this is to remind some people that we don't all enjoy the same kind of fun. No PK system is going to please everyone, but a PK system can end up pleasing no one if it isn't planned with playing-styles in mind. Looking at EL's PK system right now, I don't see a structure or plan to it. If there is one, it is not visible to me as a player. Instead, I see a collection of toys -- maps and arenas, armors, weapons, summons -- implemented with no clear relation to each other. And I see recent additions that strike me as just reactions to player complaints, but again with no visible plan for how they are going to affect other aspects of the PK game. And I see lots of PK threads with people bitching endlessly about what should be added and how none of it works anyway. What progress is being made? Maybe Radu isn't telling us how great the PK system really is, but from what I can see, fighters are still not satisfied, and wannabe fighters like me are still not motivated to try it. In fact, the messier the PK scene seems, the less tempted I am to go in at all.

 

In other PK threads, I and others gave the opinion that the problem is player attitudes, not the system, and that's true, but maybe kind of not true at the same time. Radu's collection of PK toys could be used by creative-minded players to put together any kind of PK system they like, but that hasn't happened. Maybe it's not reasonable to think it would in an MMORPG full of random players with different ideas of fun, unless there is more guidance from the developers as to what style or kind of a game this is supposed to be. You have to pick a thing to do and be and then do and be it. You want PK to be strategic and competitive -- set it up that way. Or set it up to be no-rules killing, or set it up to appeal to several play styles. But you have to want it to be a way and then make it be that way; it won't happen by itself. You have to make the gravy, it doesn't just come out of the meatloaf (cookie for the reference).

 

So, based only on what I see happening around me, I don't think adding more leveled arenas is going to make any difference, unless it is clear how they are supposed to be used, what loopholes are going to be kept and which closed, whether and how PK is supposed to reward players, etc.

 

The original question was where should new leveled arenas go? My answer: That depends on what you want to get out of them.

 

Let's pretend for a minute this is a focus group to market PK to non-fighters, because if you're going to add more places for PK, but you don't want PK to die from being too thinned out, then you have to get more people to do it. So the point should be, how are we going to get more people (that means new people) into PK?

 

As a target-market potential fighter, my preference would be: THE PK CITY IN THELINOR. Here's why:

 

Thelinor is the best designed PK map in EL, imo, and would be perfect as a place where the warrior culture rules. Its RP backstory even is along those lines. The PK city set-up (see the proposed layout in an earlier post) would make it MUCH less scary for newbs to watch and learn PK and develop a taste for it by seeing different players and different levels, not just the same DP scene over and over. The tendency to stick to one comfy level could be overcome by having higher levels nearby taunting and encouraging lower levels to come on up and try their strengths, so being the uber-boss of one level forever would not be worth bragging about anymore. Since most of the city is safe and can be accessed from a safe C2 map by boat, it will make it easier for non-fighters to do business with PKers. I would also add a second C1/C2 boat between Thelinor and KF (this was an old suggestion from Zamirah, I think) and let Thelinor become the most convenient-to-sto PK zone in the game, serving both continents. Then reduce the number of PK arenas in other places to put more action into Thelinor and KF -- and have no leveled arenas outside of Thelinor.

 

Of course, not all PKers will like this (no system is perfect, right?), but there will still be some other PK maps/arenas for people who like the way it is now, and maybe they won't get much deader than they are now. And maybe, just maybe, if most of the PKers are in Thelinor, PvPers will have a better chance to train without getting jumped by PKers with full dragon, summons and invisibility every few minutes, in the even emptier remaining maps/arenas.

 

Now, before some people yell that I'm just trying to make the game easier for newbs like me:

 

1- Why shouldn't the game be easier for newbs? It seems to make more sense for it to get harder as you rise in levels, not the other way around. Peewee hockey league players are not expected to face teams of NHL level, so why should newbie PKers have no choice but to get mauled by the top 50 right from their first day?

 

2- None of this will make fighting more fun for me, because none of it guarantees the kind of fair fight duel that I like, so I'm trying to think of what might be good for the game, not for myself. If there was a PK city in Thelinor, I would go there to trade and visit my PKer friends, and I might tempt death in an arena once in a while, if friends of mine were there and I had nothing else to do. It still wouldn't be my preferred scene, and I would still be a PvE player, but this is how you get people to at least try a style of play if you want it to grow.

 

EDIT to respond to Robotbob: You make excellent points. It goes back to the issue of player attitudes, and it's also part of what I was thinking about in criticizing the various changes to PK we've seen recently. One way to stop people doing exactly what you point out (which is what arena PK is all about in EL) is to eliminate the loopholes that let people plateau at a certain a/d level and stay there while still leveling p/c/nexuses to destroy all newbs without a chance. It all depends on what Radu wants out of EL. If Radu wants PK to be one of the driving forces of the game, he's going to have to admit that some of what he has set up is not working. Just adding more of the same will not change it.

Edited April 11, 2008 by peino

[_lucifer_]

I like the idea of capped arenas or ....maps

I don t want everytime i step in a non-cap arena/or map, high a/d attacking me (instead of pking each other) just to score a *noob*kill and get a small #pki

but the problems of pk are many and this isn t a thread to discuss about them

 

The only thing i have to say is that instead of pk arenas we can have pk maps but the smaller ones where a pontetial pker can find another, like KF is, there its easier to have a fight than another big pk map...

 

Anyway my suggestion is for a pk semi map with cap ie 100 a/d : EVTR southern region ...always crowed as a map ...a storage nearby and of course close to underworld

 

Thank u

Xarondas

 

 

Lol you know we are unable to support ur idea coz of your noob imagination,you think you would able to kill 100s?(as i know ur stats,mayby me but not 100s)-i am refering to this:[Anyway my suggestion is for a pk semi map with cap ie 100 a/d : EVTR southern region ...]

[Kaddy]

i wasn't refering to you, i was talkin about the people who cry like "z0mg 10 a/d higher pwns me make me arena ent!~!!"

 

WTF... I have never cried like "z0mg etc etc..." I have always fought anyone i see in PK's. Sometimes i dissed fast sometimes i used all my supplies to own the opponent. Its pointless waste ur time/gc/stuff for a fight which you dont have any chance to win. (if you want, i can PM you the names on my counters which i owned 1vs1, generally 110's...)

 

 

I suggested that because of thinking newcomers to EL. Oldschool people like you, me, con, empi etc has got balls enough to fight anyone in EL. But think about new players. We have been playing EL for ~2 years and new players are just 3-4 months... And actually they have no chance to catch us. (yeah i did 100 level's in 3 months but its my pr0ness )

 

Make it or not, i dont really care. I have been always in PK's and will always be... I suggest these things to help people who has come EL recently, to give them a chance to PK, to feel the victory. As many people said, KF is the most active PK map, now imagine you are a 70's PKer and you go into KF.

 

You went into KF and wandering around. Tell me the chance for you to find a opponent around your levels??? You will prolly got ganged by a million dollar babe which has 87123871 summoning stones on him/her and makes a zoo to you. Now tell me, Would you go into that map AGAIN???

 

I think there SHOULD be limited arenas till 100's because its thought to be a step for PK/pr0ness (this pr0ness is about levels not tactics) So people may get used to PK, used to feel the victory or loss, may learn tactics and train himself/herself... But after 100's and with the attri caps, people can kill anyone with any levels...

 

My2cents;

-Kad

[Tempest]

i wasn't refering to you, i was talkin about the people who cry like "z0mg 10 a/d higher pwns me make me arena ent!~!!"

 

WTF... I have never cried like "z0mg etc etc..." I have always fought anyone i see in PK's. Sometimes i dissed fast sometimes i used all my supplies to own the opponent. Its pointless waste ur time/gc/stuff for a fight which you dont have any chance to win. (if you want, i can PM you the names on my counters which i owned 1vs1, generally 110's...)

 

You went into KF and wandering around. Tell me the chance for you to find a opponent around your levels??? You will prolly got ganged by a million dollar babe which has 87123871 summoning stones on him/her and makes a zoo to you. Now tell me, Would you go into that map AGAIN???

1) are u under 100 a/d? im talkin about people like lucifer here, crybabies, not you.

2) yeh, i would take 10 serp stones, 6 efes, 1 mixture of power, 5 eles, and 15 bones with me, and fight that dollar babe.

[Kaddy]

2) yeh, i would take 10 serp stones, 6 efes, 1 mixture of power, 5 eles, and 15 bones with me, and fight that dollar babe.

 

And summon while fighting lolz

Edited April 11, 2008 by OldySchooly

[Tempest]

2) yeh, i would take 10 serp stones, 6 efes, 1 mixture of power, 5 eles, and 15 bones with me, and fight that dollar babe.

 

And summon while fighting lolz

nah, i would summon before i fight, and then i attack

 

EDIT: anyway im gettin offtopic again. several, or better said many things have been implemented which ruined PK. those that i just send u via pm as an answer to urs were like 30% of them. and those level limited arenas will do their part for killing PK too, it just can't be true people bitch about every shit (not meant for anyone specific) and then they cry PK is dead.

Edited April 11, 2008 by Tempest

[Kaddy]

WARNING: Flamey POST

 

First, the problems about PK is not with the players, its totally with the devs. Heres my reasons:

 

1.Fcw and flufs in KF so lower people just dont go there.

2.Merc in KF which is totally pointless

3.Reducing yeti drops and strengthening it so players couldnt get any incomes to USE them in PK's.

4.Implementing high class items such as great swords and titanium sets resulted in decreasing the number of players in PK's because every gc income is almost gone.

5.Recently tigers exp were lowered so people cant get enough money to use it on PK again.

6.Made nexus removals and hydro nexuses so million dollar babies got stronger

7.Cooldown suxorz

8.PK is unprofitable now with the best brick maker of ROSTOGOL stones

9.Nothing makes people to go live the fun of PK becuase of its damage to players is extremely high.

 

 

Still thinking the problem is with the players...?

 

Regards,

-Kad

Edited April 11, 2008 by OldySchooly