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falonor

Earth Hour 2008 - Show You Care

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2.2 million people and 2100 Sydney businesses turned off their lights for one hour - Earth Hour - March 29, 2008. According to their information, the greenhouse reduction achieved in the Sydney CBD during Earth Hour was sustained for a year, it would be equivalent to taking 48,616 cars off the road for a year. This year many major global cities are joining Earth Hour in 2008, and they're are turning a symbolic event into a global movement.

 

Visit these links and you can aslo search on google - state your opinion - and maybe EL would have such an Hour as well :

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/03/22/co...arth-hour-2008/

and a youtube video - comment on it if you'd like but better do it here :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qczUcQ-VjM

 

Post Scriptum

if you are romanian - check this out as well http://www.ecomagazin.ro/ora-pamantului

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I guess this might be nice as a symbol, but the energy saving is bullshit.

Electricity is not produced in a "on demand" basis, a coal or nuclear power plant can't just shut down for 1 hour, so the unused electricity still polluted :medieval:

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Well, the gesture can still be educational in showing the sheer amount of electricity being used in an hour by the dramatic example of it NOT being used for the hour. If people keep track of their utility bills, it's possible private citizens would actually see a dip in their charges for the billing period. I know my household electric usage went down noticeably (and so did my bill) when I just stopped using an electric coffeemaker. However, I think a more immediately effective demonstration would be for everyone to stop driving their cars and other non-emergency gas-fueled vehicles for the hour.

 

EDIT: Of course, it would sort of be impossible to have such an hour in EL, wouldn't it?

Edited by peino

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Electricity is an amazing thing, it is as green as green can get, manufaturing electricty can be very clean (wind,tide,river,etc) or very dirty (oil,gas,coal) or very not so sure (urainaum rods in big thiny that boils water) There is no magic bullet, global warming may exist (in Nova Scotia we are kinda hoping it happens) or it may not exist, I dont know who to belive, I tend to stray to the belief that global warming is a threat, welll, better be safe then sorry I suppose, It is a bit overwhelming to grasp. So, I will not be turning off my lights for this hour, rather, I will continue trying to make better energy choices through out the year, (yeah mostly because I am a cheap jerk)

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To be honest, I don't believe in man caused global warming. We lack the data for the past few million years (speculations based on old trees and dirt does not count, imo, as reliable data).

Besides, the weather in Pennsylvania sucks, I love the summer and hate the winter, so.. :medieval:

 

All this being said, I do like to conserve energy and recycle/reuse stuff.

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To be honest, I don't believe in man caused global warming. We lack the data for the past few million years (speculations based on old trees and dirt does not count, imo, as reliable data).

Besides, the weather in Pennsylvania sucks, I love the summer and hate the winter, so.. :medieval:

 

All this being said, I do like to conserve energy and recycle/reuse stuff.

I tend to agree, though like most I am scared of the unknown. and I really dont know who is right, But I look towards a small example. In eastern canada we have a seal harvest. Many people rely on this for the majority of their income, the seal industry is worth about 10% of the worth of the money raised from the anti seal hunting groups. ......Who is right? i am not sure. I am a sure that people depend on this income, I am also sure that if those opposed visted other agricuture they would see things can be much worse, but then again, I use this only as an allgory as golbal warming. Remember Al Gore's comapny is in the business of buying/selling carbon credits....I am personly too lazy and too stupid to dig up the information needed to form an educated opiniion.

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I guess this might be nice as a symbol, but the energy saving is bullshit.

Electricity is not produced in a "on demand" basis, a coal or nuclear power plant can't just shut down for 1 hour, so the unused electricity still polluted ;)

 

True, but most people don't realize it. If all people turn out the light at the same time you have also huge spikes on the net, this is very bad for a lot of electricial machines connected to it. It's not like shutting down all lights will lower emmisions, better don't use your car for day, it's way more efficient.

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i expect that the electricity companies knew of this and had a plan for the electricity, a lot of power companies pump water up hills in quiet times and then when they need extra use the water for hydro electricity.

 

global warming is here and we can't stop unless we take serious measures to cool the earth or find a clean source of energy tomorrow, the only other hope is that the real possibilty of a mini 'ice age' cancels out global warmings effects until we do have a solution, the current sun spot cycle is late starting, and no one knows when it will, and since more sun spots means more heat this could help ease global warming.

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i expect that the electricity companies knew of this and had a plan for the electricity, a lot of power companies pump water up hills in quiet times and then when they need extra use the water for hydro electricity.

 

Those techniques always have a delay. They work well at night to keep the massive amounts of unused power of the net, but they can't start up in 2 secs, work for some minutes, shut down again etc. We also have this evenement in belgium, and it has been done 2 times now, and the electrical companies also said that there was no noticable change in powerusage.

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Turn to nuclear, or hydro-electric, or geothermal. There are lots of solutions out there ;)

 

edit: Maybe in a few years, we have nice-clean fusion too.

Edited by Aphistolas

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I'm all for the whole save energy thing, but to do this would be a (dark) exercise in futility because:

 

A ) Power stations still run in order to produce the energy needed for businesses, hospitals, utilities etc so will run as usual...

B ) Not everyone will do it so it's a great publicity thing, but honestly how many people will do this thing?

C ) The computer I'm writing this on uses about the same power as ALL the (low-voltage energy-saving) lights in my flat (which are not all on at the same time anyway) and I'm NOT turning this off as I get so little time to be on here as it is...

D ) Until we get decent non-polutive sources of power (nuclear, wind, solar, geo-thermal, wave etc etc....) what really is the point?

E ) Until power companies and governments get involved PROPERLY nothing will really change except for 1 hour of my personal time I will be IN THE DARK! WTF!

 

 

 

If everyone was into the erection of wind-farms or nuclear power stations we'd be getting somewhere. Unfortunately, too many of these "we're doing what we can to save the planet" lot are also in the "not in my back yard" club. Hypocritical and self-defeating? What do I know :blink:

 

 

Sorry, but that's how I see it so for me, the lights stay on :)

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In my own perception I see this as a gesture and opportunity for people to come together.

As you saw in that vide-clip , companies , institutions , and entire communities pitched in and joined the campaign.

 

Of course the power-industry does not desire such a thing - it is a stress for them to see the high demand of clean energy

and that people start to wise up . Why ?! It is simple - because the clean sources of energy are extremely expensive unlike

the traditional ones such as coal and oil and because energy is somewhat linked to the Oil Industry as well .

 

My lights will go off at 8PM Local Romania Time - this enspired me to think of better energy sources more seriously no matter the cost.

Do tell if you heard more about this and if you know others doing it !

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To be honest, I don't believe in man caused global warming. We lack the data for the past few million years (speculations based on old trees and dirt does not count, imo, as reliable data).

<snip>

It took hundreds of millions of years to form the fossil fuels deposits and we burn it in less than a century. It's hard to believe for me that this hasn't any effect on the global climate!

 

But I agree we don't know for sure how much of the current changes in world climate are man made and how much is due natural effects.

 

And for the day: its good to bring the subject to everybody's mind but the energy saved is nothing compared to the total usage.

(btw: does someone know how many new cars are there every year in China?)

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To be honest, I don't believe in man caused global warming. We lack the data for the past few million years (speculations based on old trees and dirt does not count, imo, as reliable data).
We said the same thing about the cod, but then again, only hindsight is 20/20. In defense of real power savings, they should help keep the brownouts down in the future.

 

in Nova Scotia we are kinda hoping it happens
Uh, no... if it happens many of our Nova Scotian cities will be under water. I live dead in the center of the province, on top of a hill, and I'm still barely above sea level.

 

So, I will not be turning off my lights for this hour, rather, I will continue trying to make better energy choices through out the year, (yeah mostly because I am a cheap jerk)
That's what I like to hear. Lighting may be a major factor if, like many businesses, you have a lot of 100W incandescents, and have them on all the time, but on a personal level it's a tiny factor (at 8PM, the only light I usually have on is a 7W LED array.) We'll be far better off if people choose energy efficient appliances when the time for replacement comes, and consider alternative approaches (ie. my house is passive solar, and even during the winter only ~500 square feet of it is heated.) Earth Hour is fine and dandy, but I have the suspicion too many others will turn out their lights for an hour, and fail to make any changes to follow up.

 

Of course the power-industry does not desire such a thing - it is a stress for them to see the high demand of clean energy

and that people start to wise up . Why ?! It is simple - because the clean sources of energy are extremely expensive unlike

the traditional ones such as coal and oil and because energy is somewhat linked to the Oil Industry as well .

The clean energy sources _aren't_ extremely expensive, but rather it is expensive to phase out and replace any generating infrastructure (even one coal plant for another). Additionally, many require specific sites to produce to full capacity, and others such as solar power generation require more R&D before they reach their full potential, all of which make them difficult choices until one is creating new infrastructure. Edited by crusadingknight

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To be honest, I don't believe in man caused global warming. We lack the data for the past few million years (speculations based on old trees and dirt does not count, imo, as reliable data).

<snip>

It took hundreds of millions of years to form the fossil fuels deposits and we burn it in less than a century. It's hard to believe for me that this hasn't any effect on the global climate!

 

But I agree we don't know for sure how much of the current changes in world climate are man made and how much is due natural effects.

 

And for the day: its good to bring the subject to everybody's mind but the energy saved is nothing compared to the total usage.

(btw: does someone know how many new cars are there every year in China?)

 

I don't claim to know much about global warming, but I thought it was actually a natural event, mankind only acted as a catalyst. Volcanoes and such produce monumental amounts of greenhouse gases. I'm pretty sure sewage does, too. As activated sludge is converted by bacteria, which use oxygen for aerobic respiration, to produce clean water and methane gas.

 

@Global Warming: Couldn't we cancel it out with global dimming? :D

 

Global warming was a disaster, thank God Nuclear Winter cancelled it out.

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It is a public concern - if we can help be a part of the solution and not the problem.

Well - just for the record - here in Bucharest and all over the country in Romania - a lot of us " celebrated " this day .

I've spent a quiet dinner at the light of candles after unplugging all electricity appliances and turning everything off .

 

It is a symbolic hour - this is how I see it .

 

BTW - which one " turn off " for Earth Hour or do you have any friends - family that did so ?

Unfortunately in most cases people found out a bit to late - not everywhere the campaign was lead as it should have .

 

In enclosure - how was your 2008 March the 29th Earth Hour ?

Edited by falonor

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Like is said, the energy saving is minimal, can only be symbolic.

The amount of energy saved, will, in the future, provide 1 hour of lights to the amount of people who participate.

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LMAO Ok, I'm sorry....I do like the gesture of trying to make a better world... and this idea did sound good in theory... until Ent showed us the darker side of the force LOL

 

I guess this might be nice as a symbol, but the energy saving is bullshit.

Electricity is not produced in a "on demand" basis, a coal or nuclear power plant can't just shut down for 1 hour, so the unused electricity still polluted :)

 

I used to think these types of events really did help out... but now it doesn't make much sense... the power plant still has to produce steam for the entire hour of the blackout... maybe a little less than usual, but not much I would imagine.

 

Thanks for saving me from an hour of darkness for no good reason Ent :omg: LOL

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It is a public concern - if we can help be a part of the solution and not the problem.

Well - just for the record - here in Bucharest and all over the country in Romania - a lot of us " celebrated " this day .

I've spent a quiet dinner at the light of candles after unplugging all electricity appliances and turning everything off

 

Ce mare 'environmentalist' era Ceausescu, am petrecut o gramada de timp la lumina lumanirlor..

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well yeh its a nice gesture but its also full of s**t

 

Of course we want to save the planet , of course we do. Its our only home, funny that isnt it, our only home ? No where else to go chumps, and dont tell me they built a base on Mars already, because even if they did YOU are not fucking going.

 

Anyway, perhaps we need to turn the lights off for one hour and pretend we all care about the world and then for the rest of the 365 days of the year we can carry on doing nothing about it, nice gesture.

 

Also , im sick to the teeth of hearing about man made global warming. Its a big joke, do you honestly think the powers that be would let it all continure if they thought thier sorry ass was in danger for a second?

 

The IPCC is not a scientific group its a POLITICAL organisation , jesus frigging christ on a bike people do some HOMEWORK into it yourselves and stop watching TV to get your information. ARGHGHGHGHG annoying so annoying.

 

As well, if you REALLY think the power that be give a shit then why during the hour that everyone turned off thier lights did the world make enough cars to put on the road to polute the world for a full year? Look around you , your being lied to. Wake up.

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BTW, this whole "omfg, teh evil fossil fuel is going to kill us beause of CO2 emissions!111oneeleven" is bullshit.

Assuming we believe in the evolution (I don't, but that's another story), then the life started on a barren planet. All the CO2 in the fossil fuel (all the coal, oil and gas underground) was floating in the air, as CO2.

Then the plants and algae started consuming it for their growth, and then the dinosaurus and animals ate the plants, so the CO2 became living matter. Then some of this living matter somehow got underground and the trees became coal, and the animals became oil.

 

So even if we burn ALL the fossil fuel, we are still going to have less CO2 in the air than it originally was when the life started (because part of it right now is in the existing vegetation and animals).

 

So if the life was possible back then, it should be possible in the future as well.

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I still hold the position that none of us know what the hell we are taking about with this matter, No one has enough information to make a valid opinion.

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Also , im sick to the teeth of hearing about man made global warming. Its a big joke, do you honestly think the powers that be would let it all continure if they thought thier sorry ass was in danger for a second?

Just like they did with AIDS? Right. The power that be are not almighty, and certainly not infallible - plus elected officials are more beholden to current corporate profits than possible scientific predictions as a rule of thumb. Of course, when you consider them as a statistic, the current powers that be will likely have lived to a ripe old age before any of the predicted consequences occur anyway.

 

The IPCC is not a scientific group its a POLITICAL organisation , jesus frigging christ on a bike people do some HOMEWORK into it yourselves and stop watching TV to get your information. ARGHGHGHGHG annoying so annoying.

Does only looking for a conspiracy count as homework? If the IPCC _is_ a political organization, why don't they behave like one? Printing retractions when your models were off enough to colour your extrapolations, though not your conclusions, thus lending to rampant cries of 'conspiracy!' is hardly the accepted behavior of political organizations, but rather that of a scientific one. I suppose that you may respond that they're leading me, but if we want to go that rather I may very well be living in the Matrix. This is not an easy topic to determine who is right or who is wrong, and I prefer to err on the side of caution.

 

BTW, this whole "omfg, teh evil fossil fuel is going to kill us beause of CO2 emissions!111oneeleven" is bullshit.

Assuming we believe in the evolution (I don't, but that's another story), then the life started on a barren planet. All the CO2 in the fossil fuel (all the coal, oil and gas underground) was floating in the air, as CO2.

Then the plants and algae started consuming it for their growth, and then the dinosaurus and animals ate the plants, so the CO2 became living matter. Then some of this living matter somehow got underground and the trees became coal, and the animals became oil.

 

So even if we burn ALL the fossil fuel, we are still going to have less CO2 in the air than it originally was when the life started (because part of it right now is in the existing vegetation and animals).

 

So if the life was possible back then, it should be possible in the future as well.

CO2 is continually released from inside the Earth, through volcanism and associated processes - the Earth apparently didn't form with a complete atmosphere. Of course, if we discard our knowledge of the past and of geology as flawed, your theory has merit, though I can find no support for humans being alive during the Cambrian period, during which our current knowledge indicates atmospheric CO2 concentrations were highest.

Anyway, I don't worry about global warming myself - the extrapolations made by scientists forget that we're running out of economically viable sources of fossil fuels anyway - we may or may not have hit peak oil recently, though it will be impossible to tell for years down the road. Even with the rosiest predictions, we'll stop burning fossil fuels long before we've re-released all of the carbon into the atmosphere. Conserving limited fossil fuels until we switch to alternatives is more my concern, given the huge economic impacts that the loss of a few oil wells can have at present.

Edited by crusadingknight

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Ce mare 'environmentalist' era Ceausescu, am petrecut o gramada de timp la lumina lumanirlor..

Da....am prins si eu cativa ani din acea perioada de " Glorie " - nu era impotriva regulilor sa scriem in alta limba ? Sincer...sper ca nu !

So if the life was possible back then, it should be possible in the future as well.

CO2 is continually released from inside the Earth, through volcanism and associated processes - the Earth apparently didn't form with a complete atmosphere. Of course, if we discard our knowledge of the past and of geology as flawed, your theory has merit, though I can find no support for humans being alive during the Cambrian period, during which our current knowledge indicates atmospheric CO2 concentrations were highest.

Anyway, I don't worry about global warming myself - the extrapolations made by scientists forget that we're running out of economically viable sources of fossil fuels anyway - we may or may not have hit peak oil recently, though it will be impossible to tell for years down the road. Even with the rosiest predictions, we'll stop burning fossil fuels long before we've re-released all of the carbon into the atmosphere. Conserving limited fossil fuels until we switch to alternatives is more my concern, given the huge economic impacts that the loss of a few oil wells can have at present.

 

 

The thing that is mostly affecting our planet is pollution which is meddling with our Ozone Lair - thus our planet and us humans are exposed to more radiation. Is not a question of life surviving on this Earth , but wether this planet would be a suitable place for us to live in .

Pollution is massively caused by gas emissions , burnt oil-fuels , a power-plants dumping residual matters in the streams that end up eventually in some sea and even ocean . Also ecological disasters .

 

Now...talking about conspiracy theories and global warming man-kind has been fascinated with weather since the dawn of tine.

Scientifically it is proven to be ways of influencing weather . And maybe some would benefit for some ice caps to melt - water could be the next

" oil " of the Planet sooner than we think with the dessert " pushing forward " and huge consumption of fresh water ;

- if we start referring to conspiracy theories -

 

Look at the big picture , the masses can influence companies - without the masses nothing can be actually achieved .

 

 

EDIT : yes...indeed,the Ozon layer is affected by certain chemicals,refrigerators and sprays had a part in that. But not only.

I'd look more into it myself and also wait for your up-date Dunian.

Edited by falonor

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