5H1zZl3mYd1Zzl3 Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Reasons why Chrisitanity are probably not true: 1. If god is so nice, why did he start the holocaust? He can'e be prejudice if he is perfect, and if he couldn't control it, how could he exist. 2. The crusades, ah yes. Evil spread by the word of god, how Ironic no good has ever gone through the bible.(Fucking evil book has killed more people than anything else. Jesus is worse that Hitler) 3. All the best rock bands are affiliated with satan. 4. Stairway to heaven KICKS ASS 5. The bible is used for mass brainwashing. It is used to get people to buy hotpants... Okay, only 2 good respsonses. SUCK MY CORNDOG! maybe if you read both of missionxan's posts you would have read that God gave us choice, so we could choose whatever we liked but if we chose poorly it would go against on the judgement day. I am Mormon too and believe everything than missionxan does. I can't believe youre not an elder missionxan because you sound like one. My brother and sister have both served full time missions. and I just became a Deacon last month!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Killerlamb Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Yes, well what is the point of a lazy ass god?? Why even have a god if he will not protect the world from almost coming to an end. Why even try? After all, if we are made in his image, god must just lay around eatinf Flaming Hot Cheetos until he vomits... Wtf is missionsxan... Read carrie, that's how most rEligios people I know are. Ever realize that this person mispelled religion. WTF is riligion! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5H1zZl3mYd1Zzl3 Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Yes, well what is the point of a lazy ass god?? Why even have a god if he will not protect the world from almost coming to an end. Why even try? After all, if we are made in his image, god must just lay around eatinf Flaming Hot Cheetos until he vomits...Wtf is missionsxan... Read carrie, that's how most rEligios people I know are. Ever realize that this person mispelled religion. WTF is riligion! it says in the bible and in the B of M that God and his son Jesus Christ will come in the last days, before the world comes to an end. Everyone knows the Noah story about the world being baptised in water. In the last days it will be baptised in fire. after that is done, he will come down with his son and teach us. And the bible isnt a brainwashing book. Ur just another stupid Atheist. GO HOME ATHEIST... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grum Report post Posted April 7, 2004 it says in the bible... Actually, this is where your argument breaks down. And although Killerlamb has a ... unique ... style of posting, he did raise one good point: if there is an all-knowing, all-powerful, loving god, then why is there evil in this world? God gave us choice If God knows what I'm going to do next, then how can I have free choice? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Killerlamb Report post Posted April 7, 2004 I used the Holocaust as an example because it was genocide against a religion, not just because it was evil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sam3773 Report post Posted April 7, 2004 You have already made the choice, your only here to find out why you made it. Anyway, i think this is a test, for a higher purpose, see if we can handle natral desaters and other things, the people who pass the test go somewhere else when they die. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grum Report post Posted April 7, 2004 You have already made the choice, your only here to find out why you made it. Wait a sec, I get to make a choice, and only after that I get to find the reason why I made that choice? That sounds weird. But anyway, if everything is fixed there is no point in me worrying about the choices I make in this life.[1] Anyway, i think this is a test, for a higher purpose, see if we can handle natral desaters and other things, the people who pass the test go somewhere else when they die. Hmmmz... So exactly *how* do you pass the earthquake test? Or the "I'm being born without arms" test? Or the "crap I'm born in a country at war" test? And what happens to people who fail the test? Sorry, I can't help it. I find the mythology entirely unconvincing. [1] This of course assumes that I have a choice as to whether I worry about my choices. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alderan Report post Posted April 7, 2004 ok, soon ill post some verses explaining why there is so much evil, im kinda busy right now, but they should be posted sometime today Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MasterXan Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Alright, again, God/Heavenly Father gave us free agency. For him to interfere in every single evil act would be the same as taking away that free agency. He might as well let Lucifer instead of Christ represent him. The Holocaust didn't happen because of God (well, not directly). He allowed it to happen because man has freedom of choice. Those who carried it out, those who ordered it to happen, and those who didn't help when they could have will have to answer to their crimes. As to why it happened to the Jews, look in the Bible. Can't remember where, but it mentions a curse upon the Jews because of their wickedness at one time or another. The Holocaust was allowed to happen as a fullfillment of this prophecy. I'd say that after the Holocaust, treatment of the Jews improved quickly and for the most part (jokes aside) they're treated like most other religious groups. However, notice that the Holocaust wasn't allowed to be completed, that many Jews survived or escaped, that Hitler doesn't rule the world, and Nazi Germany was completely ripped apart. Notice how strong and how smart the leaders of that time period where. Coincidence that Churchill was on the scene exactly when he needed to be? What about FDR? I think those two were chosen to live then, and be in a position to stop the killing before Hitler ruled all of Europe. This choosing when people are born is only possible for God to do. Grum, God knows what we will do next. That isn't the same thing as not having a choice. It means that somehow, God can tell exactly what we are thinking, and that He knows when we are thinking about doing unpredictable things just so He can't have predicted it. We are still free to kill or not kill, its just God knows whether we will or not before we do. 5H1zZl3mYd1Zzl3, you shouldn't put down Atheists. They obviously have some reason not to believe in God, though I certainly don't know the reason. BTW, I'm not an elder cause I'm 17, I'm just preparing for my mission. lol, I remember being a deacon. fun stuff there... Bible used for brainwashing? I don't even understand that statement, much less have an answer. How is the Bible brainwashing people? You want brainwashing, go listen to Spice Girls CDs for a few days, then come back and try and say anything intelligent. The Bible is just like any book, you can put it down if you don't agree or don't want to read it. And if you read the Bible backwards it's nothing but the Bible backwards... :wink: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alderan Report post Posted April 7, 2004 i dont think you should call the bible "just like any other book" it is NOT, it is the word of GOD other book's are word's of MAN, and unlike most book's the bible is ALL true, none of it is wrong! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grum Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Okay, not trying to offend anyone here, but I cannot reconcile the properties usually attributed to the Christian[1] god with the world I observe around me. For him to interfere in every single evil act would be the same as taking away that free agency Yes. The Holocaust didn't happen because of God (well, not directly). He allowed it to happen because man has freedom of choice. And there's the rub. God, knowing full well what would happen, allowed millions of innocent people to be killed. An all-powerfull god could have prevented it, an all-loving god would have prevented it. Please try to explain why this god did not love the victims of (for instance) the holocaust. As to why it happened to the Jews, look in the Bible. Can't remember where, but it mentions a curse upon the Jews because of their wickedness at one time or another. The Holocaust was allowed to happen as a fullfillment of this prophecy. The Bible also states that world would come to an end within the life time of Jesus' disciples, but someone seems to have missed an appointment there. However, notice that the Holocaust wasn't allowed to be completed, that many Jews survived or escaped, that Hitler doesn't rule the world, and Nazi Germany was completely ripped apart. Notice how strong and how smart the leaders of that time period where. Coincidence that Churchill was on the scene exactly when he needed to be? What about FDR? I think those two were chosen to live then, and be in a position to stop the killing before Hitler ruled all of Europe. This choosing when people are born is only possible for God to do. :roll: Grum, God knows what we will do next. That isn't the same thing as not having a choice. It is. If I have a real choice, my decision can go either way. If the god *knows* what I am going to do, then the choice is already made. I cannot choose anything else, otherwise the god would have been wrong. And, yeah, the Bible brainwashing sounds a bit strange to me too. People can brainwash other peopke, but not a book by itself. At least, that seems highky unlikely to me. [1]: not trying to single out Christians here, but it's the religion I'm most familiar with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grum Report post Posted April 7, 2004 unlike most book's the bible is ALL true, none of it is wrong! All of it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cicero Report post Posted April 7, 2004 The Bible also states that world would come to an end within the life time of Jesus' disciples, but someone seems to have missed an appointment there. The impending destruction that was mentioned was talking about the fall of Jerusalem, which did happen. As far as those people were concerned, it was the end of the world, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grum Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Mark, Ch. 13 , note especially 13:27 "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." and 13:30 "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alderan Report post Posted April 7, 2004 hmm... ill research that, and ask some teachers and or pasters in my church, i dont know about you guys, but im learning a lot from this post and i do belive ALL of the bible is true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazor Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Mark, Ch. 13 , note especially 13:27 "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." and 13:30 "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." question being, did you take these out of context? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alderan Report post Posted April 7, 2004 ya, where in the bible has it said that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alderan Report post Posted April 7, 2004 what translation did you use? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grum Report post Posted April 7, 2004 No, I did not take those out of context, Jesus is talking about the famous second coming there. Look it up. EDIT: KJV translation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alderan Report post Posted April 7, 2004 hazor, i looked up those verses, he is right... ill talk to some people in my church about it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roja Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Please try to explain why this god did not love the victims of (for instance) the holocaust. Who said he didn't love them? We cannot make those kind of judgements, because we are not God. We don't know what happens after this life-we can only speculate, and believe what others have told us, or make up our own beliefs. We don't know what God thinks or feels, etc...so how can we judge that? There is much more to this life than meets the eye..IF God is perfect, and IF he is all good/loving, then there's obviously a reason for all the evil in the world that is far far beyond our understanding. I believe that to see the truth of things, you have to see the whole, and as far as I know, only God can see all at once. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alderan Report post Posted April 7, 2004 that's why god gave us the bible(to know what will hapen after death, why there is evil, etc.) to read about why there is evil look up, genesis chapters 2 and 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grum Report post Posted April 7, 2004 If we cannot judge the acts of people, we should close the courts now. Who are we to put a murderer on trial, if his act might in fact have been an act of good? After all, if you concede to the point that God has the highest authority, and if, as you assert, we don't know what God thinks or feels, then how can we judge? IF God exists, and IF God is perfect, and IF he is all good/loving then he sure made a mess of creating a universe in which evil has to exist for the better of mankind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grum Report post Posted April 7, 2004 *looks up Genesis 2 & 3* Oh yes, the Adam and Eve story. They are not allowed to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Now how can they judge whether or not to eat from that tree if they don't know about good and evil? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazor Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Alderan, I don't see how these chapters explain it(especially 2) - but I'll go further in God made mankind to have a choice, a choice of wether or not to worship him. without anything to stray humans away from him, it would have been pointless, hence the evilness. But do not take this wrong, the devil, or "lucifer" as his actual name is(as MasterXan said) is the one who tempts people - not God. You may recall MasterXan said something about "Free Agency"? (its also often refered to as "free will" and other similar things) well this would be exactly what I'm talking about. God won't "intervene" unless we ask him to. and as for Grums bit about murdering - the bible more than clearly states that God said that murder is wrong.(Exodus chapter 20, where you'll find the ten commadments) and on the subject about christs second commming while his disciples were still alive, I'll ask around... *looks up Genesis 2 & 3* Oh yes, the Adam and Eve story. They are not allowed to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Now how can they judge whether or not to eat from that tree if they don't know about good and evil? You'll read in those chapters, God said don't do it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
