New System. Can you do better?

[TirunCollimdus]

I have no more than $600 to spend. I have only these specific items that I need to replace with that money. Please let me know if I am getting the best system that I can with the money I have. I think that this could help a lot of people who don't

have a lot of money to spend on figuring out what the best thing to do for improving their system is. I am keeping the case when I upgrade again as I will be getting a water cooling kit once I get the money for it too.

 

The case:

Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gamer Computer Case $87.99

 

The power supply:

ThermalTake 500-Watt Power Supply

Edit:ThermalTake /PurePower W0129RU/600-Watt/ATX 2.2/120mm Fan/SATA-Ready/PCI-E Ready/Active PFC $98.99

Edit: Due to money saved on various parts I am going to be safe and get a more expensive power supply. I have lots of fans and they are huge. Add that to the draw from the other components and possible extra heat that needs to be cooled by the Sapphire card and I might need the extra power.

 

The mother board:

ASUS M2A-VM AM2 Motherboard AMD690G Onboard VGA $38.72

ASUS M2V AM2 VIA K8T890 ATX AMD Motherboard $34.99

Thanks for this one Korrode. Does anyone know why almost every socket AM2 motherboard is micro???

 

 

The processor:

AMD Athlon 64X2 Dual Core 5000+ 2.6 GHz Processor w/ 2MB L2 Ad05000IA95CZ Socket AM2 $113.99

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 4600+* (2.4GHz) AM2 $90.20

Thanks for the tech smarts there Daejin. This will be helpful.

 

The memory:

2GB ASUS DDR2-800MHz <--- This was a motherboard specific memory upgrade kit.

Edit: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory $53.00

 

The video card:

Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO 512 MB DDR@ PCI-E Dual DVI $48.18

 

The ethernet:

CNET PROG-2000S NIC GIG 10/100/1000 PCI Ethernet LAN Adapter $15.12

edit: This is removed from list as the mother board has 1 GIG LAN on board. Thanks to Tork_Unib for the heads up.

 

Extra Fan:

Antec SmartCool 120mm Case Fans, Thermally Controlled 12.99

This is for the side to cool the video card. Getting the optional extra fan.

 

What I would like to know is if I am getting the best that I can for the money I am spending. Should I go with different companies, different products or both for any of the parts. Can anyone tell me a place to get better prices or better yet sell it to me themselves for a better price and make another EL player with more money to give to Entropy.

 

Thanks for the help and for the advice that I know a lot of other players can use.

 

Tirun

Edited February 29, 2008 by TirunCollimdus

[Albazz]

The only thing i can say about this, where is the cupholder? Cupholders are grrreat!

[Superman]

I personally would try to add some more RAM, maybe 3-4GB, insted of the 2GB your planning to buy. The AMB/ATi stuff is ok, I got a Radeon card, and it runs everything I need it to fine.

 

Is this a already made PC? Or are you planning to buy each peice seperate, and build it yourself?

[TirunCollimdus]

roflmao @ Albazz. I would say that is what Icy is for but then I would be in a LOT of trouble. Especially since I am using her computer until I get my new one put together. Someday I might be able to afford cup holders for my computer but not right now. lol

 

Seriously though if you think the items posted are a good investment for their price or that the whole group of items as a whole is well put together then post that too. People who need help with upgrading their own systems can use this as a starting point if enough input is put together by the tech community.

 

Tirun

[Zephlix]

The only thing i can say about this, where is the cupholder? Cupholders are grrreat!

 

 

I mine has a cup holder, I push this button and this thing pops out where i can place my cup. Onlything is my system is suspose to have a dvd burner and I can't seem to locate it

 

 

 

 

 

jk, but anyways you nay want a larger power supply, I'd say at least 600w, but i would suggest 650-700w.

[korrode]

The case:

Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gamer Computer Case $87.99

Good Choice.

 

The power supply:

ThermalTake Pure Power W0100RU 500 WATT ATX 2.0 120mm fan 20/24 pin sata ready PCI-E ready $ 39.99

Edit: ePOWER ZU-650W ATX12V Version 2.0 / EPS12V 650W Power Supply 115/ 230 V cUL, CE, FCC, TUV $69.99

Zephlix said I need more power for all of the goodies I have lined up here so this is what I have so far to replace my first choice in power supplies.

Zephlix is wrong

I've supplied ThermalTake PSUs many times, they've been good.

I dont know all too much about the ePOWER brand, but, in Australia at least, they certainly dont have the reputation for good product that ThermalTake does.

500watt, even a non-PFC 500watt PSU, is plenty for what you've got lined up here. The only reason i can see to go with a 650watt PSU is for future upgradeability.

If i was you i'd save the $30 here and put it towards a better motherboard/video card.

 

The mother board:

ASUS M2A-VM AM2 Motherboard AMD690G Onboard VGA $38.72

I have supplied this exact mobo in business workstations a couple of times recently, it's been great for that purpose, the AMD690G seems solid stability wise, but the nForce 570 Ultra chipset is quicker and just as stable.

Save $30 and get the 500watt PSU, rather than the 650watt, and get an ASUS M2N-E.

The M2N-E has on-board sound and network, but not on-board video (which u dont need).

 

The processor:

AMD Athlon 64X2 Dual Core 5000+ 2.6 GHz Processor w/ 2MB L2 Ad05000IA95CZ Socket AM2 $113.99

Cool.

 

The memory:

2GB ASUS M2NBP-VM CSM DDR2-800MHz

Erm... "ASUS M2NBP-VM CSM" is a motherboard model... not RAM...

Corsair and Kingston have time and time again proven to me to be extremely reliable.

Get 2GB of Corsair PC6400 (800MHz) DDR2... if for any reason Corsair isnt available, get Kingston.

 

The video card:

Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO 512 MB DDR@ PCI-E Dual DVI $48.18

People love to comment how the generic-y video card manufacturers (like Sapphire) produce their video cards exactly to the spec of nVidia reference boards, this is true, but it guarantees nothing about the quality of the components used. It means they all come back with the same benchmark results, but longevity of the card will still come down to the quality of components used.

I highly recommend ASUS, if for some reason you cant get an ASUS card, get Leadtek.

Although ATi/AMD may some day become my brand of choice, as it stands right now, for various reasons, it's not. Go nVidia... plus, I've found the combination of ASUS+nvidia motherboard with ASUS+nvidia video card to be extremely reliable and get the best performance possible out of each product.

Based on prices and products on NewEgg, i recommend an ASUS EN7300GT (128bit/256MB/GDDR2/PCI-E), or if you can spare some more $$ on video card, a 8500GT or yet more expensive 8600GT card would pwn.

 

The ethernet:

CNET PROG-2000S NIC GIG 10/100/1000 PCI Ethernet LAN Adapter $15.12

edit: This is removed from list as the mother board has 1 GIG LAN on board. Thanks to Tork_Unib for the heads up.

The motherboard i recommended has on-board ethernet also.

 

 

Other Notes:

Use Seagate Hard Drives

Use Pioneer DVD Drives.

 

 

Regards,

- Korrode.

 

8+ years professional I.T. experience, specifically in systems setup.

Warranty claims processed since i stopped working for other companies and only supplied systems built to my hardware recommendations:

Still 0.

 

Good luck

[Entropy]

Don't get an Nvidia card, they don't give one single, little fuck about their customers, and their drivers are horrible. Go with ATI.

As for Zephlix, don't listen to him, a few days ago he was telling me what he thinks is wrong with the client, even though he didn't even look at the source code.

But anyway, I think that a 450 PSU is more than you need, I have a 350W PSU and it works fine (AMD X2 64, 4600+, Nvidia 7300 GS, 2GB RAM)

 

The RAM, I think 2GB should be OK, unless if you get Vista, in which case you'll probably need 32GB or more

[korrode]

Oh i wouldn't say nVidia dont give a fuck about their customers, it's just that they care more about their corporate customers... and that their support department, as with most, seems to be run by a sales team rather than technicians.

 

I love AMD, and everyone is praising them for their new ATi linux drivers, but they have a long way to go before they'll be competing with nVidia when it comes to GPU design.

[Entropy]

Umm, I think ATI can more than compete with Nvidia in GPUs, and they did that for years.

But the best and most efficient GPU with crappy drivers is inferior to a good GPU with good drivers. Does it make you feel good knowing that you have a GPU that can handle 100 billion trillion triangles per second, but half the games don't work properly on it?

[Cycloonx]

Umm, I think ATI can more than compete with Nvidia in GPUs, and they did that for years.

But the best and most efficient GPU with crappy drivers is inferior to a good GPU with good drivers. Does it make you feel good knowing that you have a GPU that can handle 100 billion trillion triangles per second, but half the games don't work properly on it?

 

I had more problems with all my ATI cards than I have with my current Nvidia. ATI drivers have way more problems than those from Nvidia, it's not because something goes wrong in EL with Nvidia cards that they have shitty stuff (without omega drivers I even crashed all times in EL with my latest ATI card). I'm happy with my Nvidia GPU, even after using ATI for about 8 years and I used 3 different GPUs of them. If someone would ask me what to chose, I would recommend them Nvidia.

[korrode]

Well, in my personal experience with 2 different ATi cards and like 5 different nVidia ones over the years across 9x, NT and Linux platforms i've found nVidia cards to have the least compatibility issues. Can u tell me what exactly makes their drivers crappy? I mean, that whole GeForce Go thing doesn't make their cards or drivers crappy, it just makes them bastards.

 

As for GPU technology, ATi had the technological crown for a couple of years and it's clear they are still living off that rep, but that hasn't been the case for a while now... That doesn't mean the company wont ship product, they may even produce good bang-for-buck products and be a good choice for the mid-range section of the market, I'm just saying that in core performance and technology at the top, and subsequently down through the core range, nVidia currently have an edge. Perhaps that'll change, probably will, given AMD's reputation for R&D.

[Entropy]

Want an example of why Nvidia is so crappy?

Download the game from the website (don't install the patch), get the latest Nvidia drivers, and bingo, system freeze (need to restart the computer).

If you think this shit is acceptable, go ahead and buy Nvidia cards. I don't think I'll buy any of their cards for a while..

[TirunCollimdus]

I personally would try to add some more RAM, maybe 3-4GB, insted of the 2GB your planning to buy. The AMB/ATi stuff isok, I got a Radeon card, and it runs everything I need it to fine.

 

Is this a already made PC? Or are you planning to buy each peice seperate, and build it yourself?

 

TC Buying piece by piece to assemble as always. Unless you know of a better way to get a better price for the set of stuff I am getting.

 

I've supplied ThermalTake PSUs many times, they've been good.

I dont know all too much about the ePOWER brand, but, in Australia at least, they certainly dont have the reputation for good product that ThermalTake does.

500watt, even a non-PFC 500watt PSU, is plenty for what you've got lined up here. The only reason i can see to go with a 650watt PSU is for future upgradeability.

If i was you i'd save the $30 here and put it towards a better motherboard/video card.

TC As you and Entropy both suggested the lower watt power supply will work I will give it a try since I can always get a new one if I need to later on.

 

The mother board:

ASUS M2A-VM AM2 Motherboard AMD690G Onboard VGA $38.72

I have supplied this exact mobo in business workstations a couple of times recently, it's been great for that purpose, the AMD690G seems solid stability wise, but the nForce 570 Ultra chipset is quicker and just as stable.

Save $30 and get the 500watt PSU, rather than the 650watt, and get an ASUS M2N-E.

The M2N-E has on-board sound and network, but not on-board video (which u dont need).

TC EEP! Yes it is better, so much better it costs almost 3X as much. I just cannot afford that motherboard.

 

The memory:

2GB ASUS M2NBP-VM CSM DDR2-800MHz

Erm... "ASUS M2NBP-VM CSM" is a motherboard model... not RAM...

Corsair and Kingston have time and time again proven to me to be extremely reliable.

Get 2GB of Corsair PC6400 (800MHz) DDR2... if for any reason Corsair isnt available, get Kingston.

TC Corsair is what is in my old system. I see no reason to not stick with them as posted in my edit.

 

The video card:

Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO 512 MB DDR@ PCI-E Dual DVI $48.18

Based on prices and products on NewEgg, i recommend an ASUS EN7300GT (128bit/256MB/GDDR2/PCI-E), or if you can spare some more $$ on video card, a 8500GT or yet more expensive 8600GT card would pwn.

TC My last ATI card was from Sapphire and lasted about 4 years. The more important consideration however, is that I simply cannot afford to spend more money than I already am. This is just a 'getting me to my next one' system. If I was trying to build a great system I would be choosing an SLI motherboard and two video cards. I can't afford it though.

 

Regards,

- Korrode.

 

8+ years professional I.T. experience, specifically in systems setup.

Warranty claims processed since i stopped working for other companies and only supplied systems built to my hardware recommendations:

Still 0.

 

Good luck

 

 

The RAM, I think 2GB should be OK, unless if you get Vista, in which case you'll probably need 32GB or more

TC If I get Vista it will be because I have been replaced by aliens so please shoot me and stop the invasion.

 

Want an example of why Nvidia is so crappy?

Download the game from the website (don't install the patch), get the latest Nvidia drivers, and bingo, system freeze (need to restart the computer).

If you think this shit is acceptable, go ahead and buy Nvidia cards. I don't think I'll buy any of their cards for a while..

TC Thanks Entropy. I am not getting a top of the line card so I think ATI will be fine for now and by the time I am ready to get top of the line I am sure as has been pointed out that ATI's cards will be back on top. Might as well stick with them since I know more about their drivers and boards anyway.

 

Tirun

[Wizzy]

I have a problem with ATI

I personly choose nVidia as the drivers seem much more stable for linux then ati's My ati radeon mobile chip 7500 iirc has burned out twice while playing EL on that machine. Seems to be an over heating problem. Ofcourse, this is laptops and lap tops are a whole different sort of beast. But for lap top linux EL support I would buy a machine that has a nVida chip set

[Entropy]

Xerafax, who is our OpenGL guy (the guy who implemente dthe water shaders, the vertex programs, and otehr optimizations) uses ATI on Linux, and said he will not buy Nvidia unless they fix their drivers. Since AMD bought ATI, their drivers and customer support is better.

[Daejin]

I have no more than $600 to spend. I have only these specific items that I need to replace with that money. Please let me know if I am getting the best system that I can with the money I have. I think that this could help a lot of people who don't have a lot of money to spend on figuring out what the best thing to do for improving their system is. I am keeping the case when I upgrade again as I will be getting a water cooling kit once I get the money for it too.

The case:

Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gamer Computer Case $87.99

 

The power supply:

ThermalTake Pure Power W0100RU 500 WATT ATX 2.0 120mm fan 20/24 pin sata ready PCI-E ready $ 39.99

Edit: Well since both Entropy and Korrode agree that the Thermaltake will work and I trust the company completely I am going to stick with the 500w supply and if I have problems. I can always get a new one later.

 

The mother board:

ASUS M2A-VM AM2 Motherboard AMD690G Onboard VGA $38.72

 

The processor:

AMD Athlon 64X2 Dual Core 5000+ 2.6 GHz Processor w/ 2MB L2 Ad05000IA95CZ Socket AM2 $113.99

 

The memory:

2GB ASUS DDR2-800MHz <--- This was a motherboard specific memory upgrade kit.

Edit: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory $53.00

 

The video card:

Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO 512 MB DDR@ PCI-E Dual DVI $48.18

 

The ethernet:

CNET PROG-2000S NIC GIG 10/100/1000 PCI Ethernet LAN Adapter $15.12

edit: This is removed from list as the mother board has 1 GIG LAN on board. Thanks to Tork_Unib for the heads up.

 

Extra Fan:

Antec SmartCool 120mm Case Fans, Thermally Controlled 12.99

This is for the side to cool the video card. Getting the optional extra fan.

 

What I would like to know is if I am getting the best that I can for the money I am spending. Should I go with different companies, different products or both for any of the parts. Can anyone tell me a place to get better prices or better yet sell it to me themselves for a better price and make another EL player with more money to give to Entropy.

 

Thanks for the help and for the advice that I know a lot of other players can use.

 

Tirun

 

You might be able to get a better Antec Power supply and case bundled together for the price. Dont cheap out on the power supply, 450 is bare minimum to ensure stable operation with your configuration and some companies will post wattage, but cant stability run at near or full capacity, especially when running dual channel memory, and your video card, having consistent voltage's to all components is most essential. People love to blame drivers, the OS, etc etc for stability issues, but the quality of the hardware is just as important if not more so. Corsair usually makes good memory, kingston is alright, but not the best. I find that asus motherboards are hit and miss however, some work great, some others dont, quality control seems to be a thorn in their side for a long time. I would do some research on your specific motherboard to ensure it doesn't have any issues. One thing you can look for in a motherboard is where the caps are(the big battery looking things) If all the big ones are placed all over the motherboard with no rhymn or reason, it is usually a sign of poor design. The biggest caps should all be near the CPU, memory, and voltage regulators for most stability. As for memory, 4Gig would bet alot better, but only if you have 64bit OS(Vista 64) xBSD, etc, simply because having 3 gigs would nullify your dual channel configuration. And 32 bit windows cant handle 4 gigs, let alone 3 very well without remapping. I havent had any issues with sapphire personally, but you should again research it.

 

Also because your building it yourself, get anti static wrist band, or matt, or leave your PS plugged in(kinda dangerous) to ensure you are grounded while handling the memory, cpu, and motherboard. The prices you have listed are good, and 600 for a half descent PC is a good price. If i may suggest the ANTEC P180 is a good case for for water cooling because of the layout and extra space, but will likely break your budget. However, with this case you can run without water cooling and still have silent PC' however the video card you have chosen might be the nosiest part in the PC. I think sapphire uses refurbished hard drive motors for the fan because mine sounds like an old retro hard drive with the whine. And the CPU, you may want to reconsider because its a X2 5000+ the DRR speed will be 734mhz rather than 800, if you downgrade to the 65watt version of (amd 64 x2, 4600) part number ADO4600IAA5CU you will get the full 800mhz ram speed. Might save you a few bucks for roughly the same speed. Anyways good luck, just do your research, otherwise you should be okay with that configuration as you have it.

Edited February 29, 2008 by Daejin

[korrode]

You might be able to get a better Antec Power supply and case bundled together for the price. Dont cheap out on the power supply, 450 is bare minimum to ensure stable operation with your configuration and some companies will post wattage, but cant stability run at near or full capacity,

Whether the PSU u are buying uses passive PFC or active PFC is also important. The end power produced in PSU with active PFC can be up to twice that of one without.

 

Active Power Factor Correction <-- click to read about.

 

 

especially when running dual channel memory,

I dont think TC intends to do this and i certainly advise against it, you do not end up with twice the memory speed (specifically using the work "speed" there, not "bandwidth") with a dual channel setup, in reality you'll be lucky to see a 30% increase. Not worth paying double.

 

 

I find that asus motherboards are hit and miss however, some work great, some others dont, quality control seems to be a thorn in their side for a long time.

Here i massively disagree... I consider ASUS second in quality control only to TYAN in the desktop end of the market. (with the exception of the motherboards ASUS produce for HP, which ASUS admits use a different manufacturing process). The amount of systems i've sold with ASUS motherboards in them (some personally built, some not) goes into the hundreds... i also worked as the warranties officer at a high throughput PC components business.

(Side note: In my experience the most unreliable mobo manufacturer (over the years at least) is Gigabyte.)

 

How many ASUS motherboards have you seen (personally) fail Daejin?

Often people are put off by 1 or 2 bad experiences with a company, and it turns out it was just really bad luck.

 

 

I would do some research on your specific motherboard to ensure it doesn't have any issues.

That's certainly good advice.

 

 

As for memory, 4Gig would bet alot better,

TC if you find you're running out of memory then u can always add more later, I have 2GB and find it to be fine, and run lots of EL clients, MySQL DB server, a bunch of other stuff.

Start with 2GB imo.

 

but only if you have 64bit OS(Vista 64) xBSD, etc

Dont forget to mention all the compatibility issues with existing 32bit software when u run XP/Vista 64-bit... and that not a lot of software companies, in the Windows world, seem to be in a rush to get 64 bit versions of their apps out.

 

No need to jump the gun, 32 bit Windows versions are still going to offer the most compatible solution, and will do everything TC needs.

 

I havent had any issues with sapphire personally, but you should again research it.

Certainly.

In my quick search I couldn't find anyone saying Sapphire are "good", i found people saying "OK" and "bad"...

A review stands out as backing my arguments in this thread particularly well:

http://it-review.net/index.php?option=com_...p;limitstart=12

 

In this they comment on an ATi based Sapphire card having heat, noise and compatibility issues, and suggest a nVidia based Leadtek card over it.

 

But that of course is just one review, and one i picked to suit my recommendations... as Daejin said, u should check out a bunch more yourself

 

 

I think sapphire uses refurbished hard drive motors for the fan because mine sounds like an old retro hard drive with the whine.

 

And the CPU, you may want to reconsider because its a X2 5000+ the DRR speed will be 734mhz rather than 800, if you downgrade to the 65watt version of (amd 64 x2, 4600) part number ADO4600IAA5CU you will get the full 800mhz ram speed. Might save you a few bucks for roughly the same speed.

Good advice also, and might save u a buck or two.

[Superman]

As for memory, 4Gig would bet alot better,

TC if you find you're running out of memory then u can always add more later, I have 2GB and find it to be fine, and run lots of EL clients, MySQL DB server, a bunch of other stuff.

Start with 2GB imo.

Why not just have 4gb, when I bought the parts for my dads computer, I bought the 4gb insted of 2gb, glad I ddi it now, not to mention they gave me a good deal on the 4gb. It's better to have something and not use it, than not have something you need, right?

[korrode]

Download the game from the website (don't install the patch), get the latest Nvidia drivers, and bingo, system freeze (need to restart the computer).

Just tested this, stock Windows client off website works fine for me with latest nVidia drivers.

 

Difference between my computer and most peoples:

 

I know first hand that the "updates" and "enhancements" that are downloaded and installed to a Windows XP SP2 computer from "Windows Update" will make the computer LESS stable.

 

Installing XP SP2 and NEVER doing Windows Update makes for the most reliable XP machines.

If you install XP SP2, install good firewall/anti-virus/anti-spyware/web browser, then you dont need to Windows Update for "security".

 

Disabling the automatic "Windows Update" isn't just for pirates, i recommend it to everyone.

 

...that'd be my first guess as to why the release client would crash for some ppl with latest nVidia drivers, just another Microsoft fuck up to add to the pile of millions.

 

 

EDIT:

and yes i set:

#autoupdate = 0

prior to running the client first time, so no auto-update.

 

--------------------

 

@TC

 

The mother board:

ASUS M2A-VM AM2 Motherboard AMD690G Onboard VGA $38.72

I have supplied this exact mobo in business workstations a couple of times recently, it's been great for that purpose, the AMD690G seems solid stability wise, but the nForce 570 Ultra chipset is quicker and just as stable.

Save $30 and get the 500watt PSU, rather than the 650watt, and get an ASUS M2N-E.

The M2N-E has on-board sound and network, but not on-board video (which u dont need).

 

TC EEP! Yes it is better, so much better it costs almost 3X as much. I just cannot afford that motherboard.

Well here get this one ASUS M2N-X: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...82E16813131179R

It's still more leet than the AMD690G one you're planning on atm, and cheaper; $36.99

 

If for some reason you really dont want any nVidia product in your system (including chipset), you may also want to consider the VIA based M2V, only $35 on NewEgg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...82E16813131024R

 

Benefits of this board are that is is a full sized ATX board with 4 PCI 2.2 slots (as opposed to 2 on your M2A-VM) and 2x IDE ports (as opposed to 1)... and the SATA port on the back I/O panel is a very nice little feature too.

As you said this is an "in-between" system, a board with more backwards compatibility seems like a good idea... what HDD and DVD/CD drives were u using in this system? all old ones? are they all IDE?... if so, u may need the 2 IDE ports.

The board still comes supporting all the key new technology of the A2M-VM; PCI-E 16x, AM2, DDR800, etc.

 

VIA were once a top ranked chipset manufacturer.

When AMD originally released the first range of Athlons, all they provided was the AMD750 chipset, which performed pathetically against Intel counterparts.

VIA rode in on a white horse with Slot A, then Socket A chipsets that were up to the task of battling Intel. Infact, for a while there, an AMD Athlon + a VIA chipset was the fastest desktop range computer you could buy.

...then nVidia came in with their big bucks and bag-o-tricks and snatched away the Athlon chipset performance crown, and ever since then VIA have lagged just a step behind, and have been highly underrated.

 

Just some suggestions to think about

 

The video card:

Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO 512 MB DDR@ PCI-E Dual DVI $48.18

Based on prices and products on NewEgg, i recommend an ASUS EN7300GT (128bit/256MB/GDDR2/PCI-E), or if you can spare some more $$ on video card, a 8500GT or yet more expensive 8600GT card would pwn.

 

TC My last ATI card was from Sapphire and lasted about 4 years. The more important consideration however, is that I simply cannot afford to spend more money than I already am. This is just a 'getting me to my next one' system. If I was trying to build a great system I would be choosing an SLI motherboard and two video cards. I can't afford it though.

All hail Leadtek and NewEgg for the <$60 8500GT! - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814122023 \o/

 

But ok if u want ATi, kk, the 2600 PRO is very good value for money, probably slightly better value than the 8500GT (more traditional AMD tactics, mid-range bang-for-buck)... so long as it works ok.

I cant help but persist in recommending away from Sapphire... I once bought this cheap 5600XT by a brand called "Auriga", the thing still works today, but we (being the computer store i worked for at the time) sold many Auriga video cards that ended up coming back with problems.

 

You've seen 1 Sapphire card that stayed working... I've seen a lot more than 1 come back dead.... but, the cheapest 2600 PRO i can find in a brand i like is $65 from ASUS and they only make in 256MB configuration. From a specification point of view, the Sapphire card is better... so, good luck with it

Edited February 29, 2008 by Korrode

[Daejin]

You might be able to get a better Antec Power supply and case bundled together for the price. Dont cheap out on the power supply, 450 is bare minimum to ensure stable operation with your configuration and some companies will post wattage, but cant stability run at near or full capacity,

Whether the PSU u are buying uses passive PFC or active PFC is also important. The end power produced in PSU with active PFC can be up to twice that of one without.

 

Active Power Factor Correction <-- click to read about.

 

 

especially when running dual channel memory,

I dont think TC intends to do this and i certainly advise against it, you do not end up with twice the memory speed (specifically using the work "speed" there, not "bandwidth") with a dual channel setup, in reality you'll be lucky to see a 30% increase. Not worth paying double.

 

Im just saying bang for the buck, dual channel packages are cheap now, for the bit of extra speed, you might as well. Plus he quoted a corsair dual channel memory pack for 53 USD ??? so i think that is well worth the money, thats dirt cheap for 2 Gigs.

 

 

I find that asus motherboards are hit and miss however, some work great, some others dont, quality control seems to be a thorn in their side for a long time.

Here i massively disagree... I consider ASUS second in quality control only to TYAN in the desktop end of the market. (with the exception of the motherboards ASUS produce for HP, which ASUS admits use a different manufacturing process). The amount of systems i've sold with ASUS motherboards in them (some personally built, some not) goes into the hundreds... i also worked as the warranties officer at a high throughput PC components business.

(Side note: In my experience the most unreliable mobo manufacturer (over the years at least) is Gigabyte.)

 

How many ASUS motherboards have you seen (personally) fail Daejin?

Often people are put off by 1 or 2 bad experiences with a company, and it turns out it was just really bad luck.

 

Actually I have been around since the 8088 days, and asus has been around for a long time, so yes i have seen alot of defunct asus boards including my own, and i have also owned a couple good ones, but im not saying asus is all bad you just have to do your research, cause as i said they are hit and miss at times.

 

I would do some research on your specific motherboard to ensure it doesn't have any issues.

That's certainly good advice.

 

 

As for memory, 4Gig would bet alot better,

TC if you find you're running out of memory then u can always add more later, I have 2GB and find it to be fine, and run lots of EL clients, MySQL DB server, a bunch of other stuff.

Start with 2GB imo.

 

but only if you have 64bit OS(Vista 64) xBSD, etc

Dont forget to mention all the compatibility issues with existing 32bit software when u run XP/Vista 64-bit... and that not a lot of software companies, in the Windows world, seem to be in a rush to get 64 bit versions of their apps out.

 

No need to jump the gun, 32 bit Windows versions are still going to offer the most compatible solution, and will do everything TC needs.

 

Right, but Vista 64 isn't as bad as everyone make its out to be, unless your running old software, you shouldn't have a problem. The ATI Drivers worked fine for x64 with games, and i have had this PC for almost a year now. Having 4 gigs and 64 although is nice but not required, but will help in the long run. Unless you plan on replacing your PC in two years.

 

I havent had any issues with sapphire personally, but you should again research it.

Certainly.

In my quick search I couldn't find anyone saying Sapphire are "good", i found people saying "OK" and "bad"...

A review stands out as backing my arguments in this thread particularly well:

http://it-review.net/index.php?option=com_...p;limitstart=12

 

In this they comment on an ATi based Sapphire card having heat, noise and compatibility issues, and suggest a nVidia based Leadtek card over it.

 

But that of course is just one review, and one i picked to suit my recommendations... as Daejin said, u should check out a bunch more yourself

 

 

I think sapphire uses refurbished hard drive motors for the fan because mine sounds like an old retro hard drive with the whine.

:)

 

And the CPU, you may want to reconsider because its a X2 5000+ the DRR speed will be 734mhz rather than 800, if you downgrade to the 65watt version of (amd 64 x2, 4600) part number ADO4600IAA5CU you will get the full 800mhz ram speed. Might save you a few bucks for roughly the same speed.

Good advice also, and might save u a buck or two.

[larrystorch]

I can't help but say Korrode is spot on with Newegg.com. I've dealt with them for many years and never have had a problem with them. Fast shipping and excellent return policy, if you need it.

 

Even if you don't buy from them, I'd still search for the items you are looking to buy and check out the customer reviews for them. They help lot (if you're smart enough to listen to them...stupid phemon motherboard choice...grumble grumble...)

[TirunCollimdus]

I would like to first say I am not happy with some of the parts I am forced to settle with due to monetary limitations. I don't like the motherboard using the Via chipset but it has the most slots and is the only one I could find that was not micro that allows for more than 2Gig of DDR2. I would really love to know why almost every socket AM2 motherboard by ASUS and MSI are all micro ATX instead of full ATX. I have never had a problem finding good parts like this before now.

 

I am sticking with the Sapphire card only because I want to stick with ATI and cannot find anything else even close to the specs of the Sapphire card for anything close to the price. I will just cross my fingers and hope my luck holds out. Everything else I am very happy with I think. Thermaltake power supply, Antec case, Corsair memory, the more compatible processor for the rest of the components, of course the onlboard LAN.

 

Just a note to Korrode, I saw that you said I could start with 2GIG of RAM and add more but the motherboards suggested all support a max of 2GIG. I am glad that this is just an interim product that I won't have to have more than a year or two at most. Then I will be definitely building a much better system.

 

I want to thank everyone for their help with this especially since it is going to be a tool a lot of other people can use to help themselves when they need a little boost to their own systems. They don't even need to be building a whole system to get good advice for what they need. The product links and the product information are invaluable. If anyone can find a better alternative to my choices before I actually purchase the parts next week I would love to get saved from doing something I shouldn't.

 

If anyone wants to post their own comparable builds using their own choice of products for purpose of comparison I think that would help a lot too.

 

Tirun

[TirunCollimdus]

The case:

Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gamer Computer Case $87.99

 

The power supply:

ThermalTake /PurePower W0129RU/600-Watt/ATX 2.2/120mm Fan/SATA-Ready/PCI-E Ready/Active PFC $98.99

 

The mother board:

ASUS MSN-X AM2 VIA K8T890 ATX AMD Motherboard $36.99

Edit: Changed motherboard due to Korrode pointing out the specs on the site were wrong. THANK YOU.

 

The processor:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 4600+* (2.4GHz) AM2 $90.20

 

The memory:

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory $53.00

 

The video card:

Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO 512 MB DDR@ PCI-E Dual DVI $48.18

Edit: *happy dances* Korrode found me an awesome card for a price I can afford as stated below.

MSI RX2600XT-T2D512EZ Radeon HD 2600XT 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 $86.99

BTW, I know about the added memory being a promotional ploy but I didn't think I could afford any cards that supported DDR3. Thanks for finding me one Korrode.

 

Extra Fan:

Antec SmartCool 120mm Case Fans, Thermally Controlled $12.99

 

Total price of $426.34. That actually leaves me room for a better video card from a better company but if I change the card I don't think I will be getting a 512MB video card that is in my price range. I will have to see if I can find a card that is 256MB but so much better and still only around $120 at most to make a change.

 

Tirun

Edited March 1, 2008 by TirunCollimdus

[korrode]

I would like to first say I am not happy with some of the parts I am forced to settle with due to monetary limitations. I don't like the motherboard using the Via chipset

Why? VIA is teh pr0 really.

They got that bad rep for the 686B southbridge not working well with some Creative PCI sound cards, big deal, all chipset makers have had some compatibility issue at some point, and VIA addressed the issue with driver updates eventually.

 

 

but it has the most slots and is the only one I could find that was not micro that allows for more than 2Gig of DDR2.

Actually the NewEgg specs for the M2N-X ($36.99) are wrong. (See HERE)

It supports 4GB of RAM, but, it only has 2 RAM slots (this could be why NewEgg just assumed 2GB max supported). The problem is, Corsair doesn't appear to be selling single 2GB DDR2-800 sticks On NewEgg at least, they only sell 4GB packs that're 2x2GB sticks, starting at $114.

Luckily, it's Kingston to the rescue with 1x 2GB DDR2 800Mhz stick for $62.99. \o/

 

 

I would really love to know why almost every socket AM2 motherboard by ASUS and MSI are all micro ATX instead of full ATX.

They're not. Just most products in your price range are.

 

I am sticking with the Sapphire card only because I want to stick with ATI and cannot find anything else even close to the specs of the Sapphire card for anything close to the price. I will just cross my fingers and hope my luck holds out.

I hope so too, most likely the card will be fine

 

Just a note to Korrode, I saw that you said I could start with 2GIG of RAM and add more but the motherboards suggested all support a max of 2GIG. I am glad that this is just an interim product that I won't have to have more than a year or two at most. Then I will be definitely building a much better system.

See above about M2N-X. I like VIA, but the M2N-X will perform slightly better than the M2V, and if you would prefer nVidia chipset over VIA, then M2N-X + Kingston RAM seems to be your answer.

 

I want to thank everyone for their help with this especially since it is going to be a tool a lot of other people can use to help themselves when they need a little boost to their own systems. They don't even need to be building a whole system to get good advice for what they need. The product links and the product information are invaluable.

yw

 

 

EDIT:

Total price of $426.34. That actually leaves me room for a better video card from a better company but if I change the card I don't think I will be getting a 512MB video card that is in my price range. I will have to see if I can find a card that is 256MB but so much better and still only around $120 at most to make a change.

Remember that for most practical uses video card memory speed will give much more of a performance boost that simply more memory.

 

256MB of GDDR3 @~1400MHz is much better than than 512MB of GDDR2 @ ~800Mhz with most GPUs and for most potential uses/applications.

Seriously, look up some info... dumping more slow memory on video cards is what manufactures do to sell cards that dont cost them much to make. In many cases there is little to no performance benefit.

 

Slightly more expensive card that you might want to look at (keeping to ATi and w/e brands):

PowerColor X1950PRO 256MB GDDR3 - $110

 

This is quite a grunty card tbh, the X1950PRO uses a 256bit memory interface. I think you'd be very happy with it's performance. I'd consider PowerColor to be in the same quality category as Sapphire.

EDIT: Um... that card now reads as being $205... it wasn't a few mins ago, and still isnt listed that way in NewEgg search results... idk what the deal is...

Here's the next closest price one ($120), and it's by HIS, which i consider to be a good quality brand:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814161088

 

There is a Jetway X1950PRO card on NewEgg for $90, DO NOT BUY IT, Firstly the GPU and memory are clocked slower. Secondly, and much more importantly, Jetway are a disgraceful excuse of a company, the epitome of not just bad component quality, but flawed and un-tested video card design in general... read the NewEgg customer reviews, see what i mean.

 

If $110 (well, now $120) ends up being a bit too much, there is this GDDR3 MSI Radeon 2600XT for $87.

That GDDR3 2600XT will be quite a bit faster than the GDDR2 2600PRO you're considering atm... and it's even still a 512MB card, but uses GDDR3 memory running @ 1400Mhz

 

Me personally of course, i'd get THIS or THIS

 

 

EDIT: I will note that the X1950PRO GPU (of which i have recommended above) does not support DirectX 10, but considering this:

The RAM, I think 2GB should be OK, unless if you get Vista, in which case you'll probably need 32GB or more

TC If I get Vista it will be because I have been replaced by aliens so please shoot me and stop the invasion.

I expect you wont care ;D Edited March 1, 2008 by Korrode

[TirunCollimdus]

Thank you very much Korrode. I have never had this much trouble finding system components before but I guess there is a lot more stuff to look at these days. It has been a very long time since I upgraded. I think about 5 years now. I will am hoping to spend a around $3K next year on a great system but with everyone's help this one will seriously kick but for my normal gaming activities.

 

I really hope that everyone tells all of the players they know to have a look at this thread. It has great help for anyone who needs to get any of the components I am looking at or all of them. I hope this thread will show everyone they can afford to keep up with the game upgrades and they don't have to stop playing. Good luck to anyone else looking for new stuff.

 

Tirun