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... where I live we have the 2nd amendment :)

Excuse my ignorance but is this the reason why they *beep* every "bad" word on your TV?

 

 

Another person who doesn't even know the second ammendment. ROFL

 

Gotta read up before you make a post Alberich.

 

What does beeping the words out of the tv have to do with the right to bear arms?

 

I think you will find he thought the 2nd ammendment was freedom of speech :) ,

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... where I live we have the 2nd amendment :)

Excuse my ignorance but is this the reason why they *beep* every "bad" word on your TV?

 

 

Another person who doesn't even know the second ammendment. ROFL

 

Gotta read up before you make a post Alberich.

 

What does beeping the words out of the tv have to do with the right to bear arms?

 

I think you will find he thought the 2nd ammendment was freedom of speech :) ,

 

Yea lol I figured that. But I just had to say it hehe :)

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... where I live we have the 2nd amendment :)

Excuse my ignorance but is this the reason why they *beep* every "bad" word on your TV?

Another person who doesn't even know the second ammendment. ROFL

 

Gotta read up before you make a post Alberich.

 

What does beeping the words out of the tv have to do with the right to bear arms?

That's why I started my post with "excuse my ignorance" :)

 

Frankly I don't give a SHIT about your amendments, since they don't apply to me.

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... where I live we have the 2nd amendment :)

Excuse my ignorance but is this the reason why they *beep* every "bad" word on your TV?

Another person who doesn't even know the second ammendment. ROFL

 

Gotta read up before you make a post Alberich.

 

What does beeping the words out of the tv have to do with the right to bear arms?

That's why I started my post with "excuse my ignorance" :)

 

Frankly I don't give a SHIT about your amendments, since they don't apply to me.

 

You say that my amendments do not apply to you and you "don't give a SHIT" about them. .

 

Then why voice an opinion about them?. . .

 

BECAUSE YOU HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEACH is why. :)

 

There is a saying I live by also. . .

 

Here it is.

 

I may not believe what you believe, but I will fight for your RIGHT to believe it
Edited by Paul Brown

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Well, to be honest, it's not the 1st amendment that allows him to post here, because the 1st (and most of the other amendments) do not apply on private property.

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Well, to be honest, it's not the 1st amendment that allows him to post here, because the 1st (and most of the other amendments) do not apply on private property.

 

True as that is, he still has a right to an opinion.

 

But I do not believe that he does not give a shit about our amendments because he used one for his argument. (Allthough it was the wrong one hehe)

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So if our Congress says that we have freedom of speech, then WE HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEACH.
It is common for people to confuse the fact that freedom of speech is NOT the same thing as the freedom to say anything you want any time you want.

 

The classical example of this is "yelling FIRE in a movie theater". Which leads to another point people like to "forget".

 

Freedom of speech does NOT free you from the responsibility for what you say or the consequences of saying it.

 

Using the above example, if yelling "fire" caused a panic and someone was killed in the rush to escape the building, claiming "freedom of speech" would not remove your responsibility for the events nor save you from any criminal or civil consequences.

 

We (in the US) also have laws against slander and libel. And again, freedom of speech will not save you from the consequences of what you might say about another person.

 

The last few years have placed many such restriction on what one says at airports and on airplanes. You can exercise your freedom of speech in these locations, but there will be consequences to deal with.

 

Does cursing fall into the above restrictions? I believe there are cases where it does. Piper's example above of a person released from a contract (seemingly) due to the language used on the job would be such a case. There were clear consequences to the choices made in the use of language.

 

You may have the right to use swear words in your language. But if you do, you can NOT complain about other's right to comment about such use. It works both ways.

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Well, to be honest, it's not the 1st amendment that allows him to post here, because the 1st (and most of the other amendments) do not apply on private property.

 

True as that is, he still has a right to an opinion.

 

But I do not believe that he does not give a shit about our amendments because he used one for his argument. (Allthough it was the wrong one hehe)

Ok, I give a shit how you number your amendments :)

 

Edit:

btw. your first amendment is comparable with our second

Edited by Alberich

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It is common for people to confuse the fact that freedom of speech is NOT the same thing as the freedom to say anything you want any time you want.

 

The classical example of this is "yelling FIRE in a movie theater". Which leads to another point people like to "forget".

Forget what? Yelling fire in a movie theatre is not illegal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

 

Using the above example, if yelling "fire" caused a panic and someone was killed in the rush to escape the building, claiming "freedom of speech" would not remove your responsibility for the events nor save you from any criminal or civil consequences.

According to that court case, it should save you from criminal consequences, but the civil law is different, so probably the familly of the killed person could sue you and win.

 

We (in the US) also have laws against slander and libel. And again, freedom of speech will not save you from the consequences of what you might say about another person.

That's different, for example libel or hiring a serial killer (which also involves speach), or if you lie under oath, are separate crimes, and 1st amendment does not apply.

 

The last few years have placed many such restriction on what one says at airports and on airplanes. You can exercise your freedom of speech in these locations, but there will be consequences to deal with.

There is a law against that, it is called making a terrorist threat.

 

Does cursing fall into the above restrictions? I believe there are cases where it does. Piper's example above of a person released from a contract (seemingly) due to the language used on the job would be such a case. There were clear consequences to the choices made in the use of language.

Piper's example does not apply here because:

1. Different country.

2. Private company.

3. Without knowing the details, I am not sure if the employer could have sued for being fired without a valid reason.

 

You may have the right to use swear words in your language. But if you do, you can NOT complain about other's right to comment about such use. It works both ways.

Sure, people can comment on it, there is no problem with that, but only within the limits of the rules of this forum.

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@piper

 

A person who resorts to physical violence (the punch is presumed from your teeth loss comment), is the person with serious social problems. Not the person who "swore".

 

In regard to people swearing in white collar business, thats different, the interactions are not social, but of a business nature. A different ruleset applies, and this ruleset includes a lot more than just not "swearing". You cant use this comparison.

 

Comparing the administration and administrators of EL to that of a business, especially a corporation, is a bad comparison as well.

 

 

@Marc

 

I think the Moderators and the Administrators need to be separated, and i think that official posts from moderators and un-offical posts from them need to be separated.

 

IMO the only time professionalism (i.e. the business ruleset for communications) is required from any member of the EL "staff", is in posts from moderators that are official. i.e. posts that are to perform moderation. These are common in the Abuse and Bans sections, but can of course be anywhere.

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Forget what? Yelling fire in a movie theatre is not illegal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

...

According to that court case, it should save you from criminal consequences, but the civil law is different, so probably the familly of the killed person could sue you and win.

I never said yelling fire was illegal, just that it was not really an accepted way to exercise free speech. And I suspect there would be some criminal charges (causing a riot, or a threat to public safety, or something like that) that would be enforceable in such a case. The referenced case does not appear to fully apply here (but that would be for the courts to sort through).

 

You may have the right to use swear words in your language. But if you do, you can NOT complain about other's right to comment about such use. It works both ways.
Sure, people can comment on it, there is no problem with that, but only within the limits of the rules of this forum.
My point is that I've seen several posts in this thread where people strongly complain about what other's say concerning their freedom of speech ("you can't tell me how to talk" sorts of things). Those are the people I was referring to.

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I am not going to argue with you as i was just making a valid point about how game mods/admins should act professionaly. Why you begin to judge people because they make spelling mistakes is your problem. It just proved my point anyways of unprofessionalism as you decide to insult me because my grammer is not up to scratch.

[some supposedly "funny" picture]

You don't need to prove your point PowerWarrior, Radu is perfectly able to do that for you. ;)

 

@Marc

 

I think the Moderators and the Administrators need to be separated, and i think that official posts from moderators and un-offical posts from them need to be separated.

 

IMO the only time professionalism (i.e. the business ruleset for communications) is required from any member of the EL "staff", is in posts from moderators that are official. i.e. posts that are to perform moderation. These are common in the Abuse and Bans sections, but can of course be anywhere.

You gotta be kidding...

So you say I can just mention "this post is unofficial", and then I can write anything I'd like?

 

Positions come with responsibilities; that goes for moderators and admins in here, just as it goes for police, army, (political) leaders etc. irl.

One just can't go advocating one thing while "in position", and in free time say/do anything they feel like.

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If you and PowerWarrior are so unhappy with me and my dirty mouth/fingers, how about I ban your IPs from the forums so you won't be subjected to my bad language on a daily basis?

In fact, who the fuck are you to tell me how I am supposed to moderate my forum? Are you some shareholder, or something?

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You gotta be kidding...

So you say I can just mention "this post is unofficial", and then I can write anything I'd like?

Well, if it was up to me, sure u could. So long as you're not acting as moderator in the post, just voicing your opinion on some topic, ya.

 

Positions come with responsibilities; that goes for moderators and admins in here, just as it goes for police, army, (political) leaders etc. irl.
lol you're game mods, not RL cops/military.

IMO your responsibility is to investigate when there is reason to believe a person is breaking EL rules (of which are defined by Entropy), and if the person is breaking rules, assign punishment... not to set an example.

 

One just can't go advocating one thing while "in position", and in free time say/do anything they feel like.
Sure one can.

When they're "in position" they're doing a job. Other than that they should be able to express their opinions and views as anyone else would.

Edited by Korrode

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I honestly don't understand this commotion. What's it all about? About swearing in forums? Not likely anymore >.<

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I personally think that people that never swear at all are just as bad as people who swear all the time. It feels unnatural.

 

This reminds me of a seminar I attended to at university, where a Nokia manager was talking about his company and management in general. It was very boring and technical stuff with lots of business words like "proactive" and such.

 

At a certain point, he used a curse word and all of us laughed, and right after this break on the monotony we were more focused on his lecture. It was a very good use of swearing. Even though it was a very dirty Portuguese expression, it didn't feel offending, but humorous instead.

 

Then he realized this positive reaction and started to squeeze a curse in almost every sentence. It completely ruined the speech. It felt like he was struggling to capture our attention. It was embarassing.

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Ooh ooh shareholder of Eternal Lands :dry:

 

How much per share? Do shareholders get discounts at NPCs?

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If you act like an idiot, you will be treated like an idiot.

 

What is so hard to understand that?

 

Piper

 

Are you saying that I act like an idiot, or are you talking in general?

 

I am talking in general, which includes you too, of course.

 

You, or in general, someone, is surprised how ppl react? That depends, of course, on how you treat them.

 

If *you* use swear words in every 2nd sentence, dont be surprised when they shout at you or even talk more crap to you and it even escalates and ppl feel free to say even more crap to you and use more bad words than you did, because you gave them an example, how to behave. Thats really not such a big surprise.

 

Freedom of speech is a nice thing, but you still have to live with the reactions you get.

 

Freedom of speech doesnt mean that you can say anything without reactions of any kind.

 

@Korrode

A person who resorts to physical violence (the punch is presumed from your teeth loss comment), is the person with serious social problems. Not the person who "swore".

 

You are wrong. Imagine someone saying to a group of ppl "ey fuckers, wassup, suck my dick" just out of the blue sky.

 

Its not the group of ppl, or that persons dentist, who have serious social problems.

 

We have a saying over here: How you shout into the forest, it will echo back.

And another one: If you act like an idiot, you will be treated like an idiot.

 

Its all up to you, how you behave. Ppl will react like you treat them.

 

@entropy

In fact, who the fuck are you to tell me how I am supposed to moderate my forum? Are you some shareholder, or something?

 

We are your customers, ppl who play your game and buy stuff from the store for real money.

 

So its your decision, how you treat us, if you still want our money.

 

Piper

Edited by The_Piper

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Well i ll just say a few words,

 

First, the game is Ent's so he can do whatever he likes. (i m not an a**licker, but he has rights to do anything)

Second, When Ent swears in forums or game, i know he says those words in a joking style, at least i never took his swears seriously and you shouldnt either.

 

Just my2cents,

 

And there is a thread about it from 2004. No point to talk it again

 

EDIT# http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6416

Edited by OldySchooly

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If you and PowerWarrior are so unhappy with me and my dirty mouth/fingers, how about I ban your IPs from the forums so you won't be subjected to my bad language on a daily basis?

In fact, who the fuck are you to tell me how I am supposed to moderate my forum? Are you some shareholder, or something?

I'm not telling you what to do and what not to do, I'm just giving my opinion.

It's entirely up to you what you do with people's opinions.

 

It's typical, you start showing your muscles again by threatening with bans, so I "won't be subjected to your bad language", while I said in my first post that swear words don't shock me (you even quoted it, I don't know what you meant with the reply "Oh, how I love the people that are the voice of the poor, opressed people that can't post their own ideas here." though).

I don't mind at all being exposed to your language, I just wished you don't let other people's opinions get under your skin, like I don't let your language get under mine.

 

Of course there are opinions and opinions; I'm fully aware of all the shit "bitching" people pour out on you, and that sucks, but I doubt that'll ever change since it's in people's nature, and new people arrive every day.

Treating players with disrespect doesn't help in any good direction though.

 

Like Piper says, treat people how you like to be treated.

 

 

 

Well, if it was up to me, sure u could. So long as you're not acting as moderator in the post, just voicing your opinion on some topic, ya.

(...)

Other than that they should be able to express their opinions and views as anyone else would.

Exactly, opinions are fine.

The way in which they are being expressed is another thing, and when you're in a "leading" or "enforcing" position, expressing yourself in a borderline-rulebreaking way is not exactly giving a good signal.

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well I would like everyone to stop blowing the matter up; the balloon will blow up in someone's face in the end.

lets be wise and end the matter here;

- it is starting to become a personal fight the way I see it ;(

 

how about we dont use swearing words unless strictly 'necessary', or unable to express otherwise; and keep our critics constructive; that is not breaking someone down, but saying it gentle and respectful, and also mentioning what is good :dry:

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how about we dont use swearing words unless strictly 'necessary', or unable to express otherwise; and keep our critics constructive; that is not breaking someone down, but saying it gentle and respectful, and also mentioning what is good :dry:

 

 

But, but... that would be reasonable....

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I want to repeat Conavar's point -- there is hardly any swearing in EL! I've had filters turned off for weeks, and there is really no more foul language in chats than with filters on. In fact, I'm surprised by all the people who go to the trouble of actually typing the filter-euphemisms. The same goes for the forums. I think everyone should go wander the net and visit some forums/games that are unmoderated or unfiltered, and learn to appreciate the mature manners of most ELers. It's really a very good group we have here, for the most part.

 

And for those few who can't go more than a few hours/days without cursing or flaming, and who can never drop an argument either, well, we can always be the ones to drop the argument if the other person isn't going to be constructive, right? (That's a hint, btw.)

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You wish to ban me from the forums because i made a statement that said swearing is ok but certain people on this forum should show professionalism?. Also i dont know why you keep talking about shareholders ect since Eternal Lands is not a limited company and is just a SoleTrader / Partnership business. I was just giving a opinion and i did not expect to be treated so rudely. But as people say its your game and if you want to be a dictator then you can.

 

 

Edit:

 

Also you want to allow a bit of swearing now but what will come next?

Allowing racism? Oh wait thats already allowed on the pk server. (Swearing is ok on pk server since people were aware it was allowed when they bought there character but they did not expect racism to be allowed)

Edited by PowerWarrior

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really powerwarrior i suggest you talk it over privately,

there really is no need to make things more difficult by fighting in public.

 

The balloon will blow up if everyone keeps adding air to it ;(

Edited by Melisande

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