Mage class formulas

[bkc56]

I don't really see a downside to allowing everyone to redistribute?

As Entropy stated in another thread:

 

There are MANY reasons why I will not do that:

1. Would be unfair for people that bought nexuses.

2. Would be unfair for those who have removal stones.

3. If I do that now, people would expect that each time I am adjusting stuff.

I might add (as was pointed out by someone):

 

4. It could cost people 10K (Scotty Died) up to 100K (Harvester of Sorrow) to re-take a perk they wanted again. (values taken from the in-game encyclopedia, so I hope they are accurate)

 

So it appears to be a solid 'no' and further request are not likely to be greeted kindly.

 

Edit: Opps, looks like I was to slow...

Edited December 18, 2007 by bkc56

[Usl]

Speaking of compromises, how about this:

Restoration always (if it doesn't fail) restores your full NATURAL HP, then over that it uses magic*2*(rationality/48) ?

I was going to suggest exactly that (restore all natural; anything above gets scaled); good that I took the time to read the thread so far.

In my case, the formula would restore a whopping 5hp above natural health, or a max of 115 health which is still good money for 4 hes. But this is exactly as it should be, given that I have only 4 rationality right now, the bare minimum. A power-mage with 100 magic and 48 rationality would get 200 hp above his natural health (which would be lower, though, assuming he/she will not have spent much on p/c), which again is good. Green light from me!

[Khalai]

Speaking of compromises, how about this:

Restoration always (if it doesn't fail) restores your full NATURAL HP, then over that it uses magic*2*(rationality/48) ?

 

I concur.

[Entropy]

this will just screw up pk again, since as a fighter you can't be independant anymore..

You mean, you can be killed?

 

if this idea gets implemented you need to find someone to heal you if you want to fight, pay him for his services/essies/pots.

Not really, there are other options. But wht's wrong with that anyway?

 

else you will have to spend points in something other then p/c in order to heal yourself normally, slowing down training, making training boring cause you spend too much time on the same monster

It affects everyone equally, so again, no problem.

 

just leave restoration as it is, and make harm, life/mana drain become rationality dependant.

Then I'd rather not even bother adding a mage class, because it would be useless if fighters can heal 1K HP at once..

[Blodoks]

Maybe people could get pp over 40 in attributes back, could help people with lower levels to get some free pp.

They can always take up to 48 again if they want.

 

I agree, so we can plan a better strategy

[extrapolation]

I just want to throw in the idea on an enriched life essence which maybe doubles or tripples the amount of restored health ...

 

this couldnt be the same spell, because you dont want to waste an ele by accident... but maybe an expensive full restore spell would be good... like 20 HE and 40 mana..

[Entropy]

BTW, someone just got banned from the forums for posting about "I want my attributes back", so if you don't want to join him, I encourage you to follow the forum rules.

[vytukas]

First, the compromise about natural HP is a good idea. CoLs are abused, I agree, and this should help.

 

 

However I admit I don't like formulae that depend on magic* rationality.

This way, magic 21 and rationality 16 seems better than magic 80 and rationality 4. Which is very odd, IMHO.

Maybe previous idea about A* magic+ B* rationality was better?

[Entropy]

That depends on how you see stuff.

For example, I see the level as the skill, and the rationality as the power of the caster.

 

Suppose we have two martial art guys, that have the very same level of skill and everything is the same between them two, only that one has the body of a 11 years old girl, and the other has the body of Arnold. We'll assume the dexterity/speed is the same, so what varies is the strength.

Now, who do you think will win?

 

Consider the best trained 12 yo girl, versus a well trained Arnold. Again, who would you bet your money on?

[Mango]

Having a magic level higher than 78 would be totally useless then, at this moment. Cause skill is maxed then, only what matters then is power...

[Entropy]

The power right now isn't that important, because even a harm spell in the current contest won't help by much in a fight between pr0s.

[popeye]

Speaking of compromises, how about this:

Restoration always (if it doesn't fail) restores your full NATURAL HP, then over that it uses magic*2*(rationality/48) ?

WOrks for me, ty. Why is everyone whining so much? There are other games out there. I like Eternal Lands and have learned to adapt to change. You should as well <you being plural here>.

[Mango]

WOrks for me, ty. Why is everyone whining so much? There are other games out there. I like Eternal Lands and have learned to adapt to change. You should as well <you being plural here>.

 

I dont whine, and Ill adapt also, but for example for me: Id heal 70hp now, and Id need to make 78-98oa to be able to heal 96hp.

 

It does require some effort, but Im still for it, it has to change, so Ill live with it.

 

And no I won't reset again ;p.

[popeye]

And no I won't reset again ;p.

I might

[Ryokotsusei]

I disagree with any changes to restoration. I'm not a pr0 pker, i've been killed plenty by people using restore. "If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

 

If you absolutely have to change it, why not just take out the no-fail level? that way everyone may always fail and it gives people a chance. If you make these changes I think it will take away from pk everything that the attribute cap will add. I can live with the cap, but isn't this going a bit too far?

[Shadeslayer]

If you absolutely have to change it, why not just take out the no-fail level?

This is 1 thing that shouldnt be changed. its one of the only things you look forward 2 when your leveling mag

[popeye]

This is 1 thing that shouldnt be changed. its one of the only things you look forward 2 when your leveling mag

I agree, and Entropy has the best interest of the game in mind, I'm certain. He's been doing this for awhile.

[Entropy]

I disagree with any changes to restoration. I'm not a pr0 pker, i've been killed plenty by people using restore. "If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

 

You disagree with everything, so your oppinion doesn't really matter that much.

I am much more inclinded to listen to people who agree with some stuff, not reject everything by default.

[Ryokotsusei]

Right, because I also disagreed with that cap, that's "Everything".

I've since changed my mind about that, but whatever. I explained my reasoning this time as you asked before, and I get nearly the same response.

[Schmurk]

Speaking of compromises, how about this:

Restoration always (if it doesn't fail) restores your full NATURAL HP, then over that it uses magic*2*(rationality/48) ?

If I well understand, it means that in my case (150 MP, 49 in magic, 12 in rationality), if I have 40 MP and I want to restore, I'll restore up to 150 MP and then have 24.5 MP more? So if I wear a CoL to have 300 MP, I'll never be able to restore over 174 MP so all the MP over 174 become totally useless, right?

Maybe I misunderstood the formula so can you precise exactly what you mean?

Do you restore natural MP + some more MP which are added to your current health? Or do you restore your full health (like if you have no CoL/MoL) and then you have some more MP over your natural MP?

 

If it's the second case, I think that the CoL will become useful only for mages because fighters would prefer put PP to increase their MP rather than increasing their ability to restore more. But maybe your goal with this formula is to discourage fighters to use CoLs?

If yes, I really don't know what to think about it... All I know is that it will really differentiate fighters and mages. So it's maybe a really good way to do it...

[Infamous]

this will just screw up pk again, since as a fighter you can't be independant anymore..

 

1:You mean, you can be killed?

 

if this idea gets implemented you need to find someone to heal you if you want to fight, pay him for his services/essies/pots.

 

2:Not really, there are other options. But wht's wrong with that anyway?

 

else you will have to spend points in something other then p/c in order to heal yourself normally, slowing down training, making training boring cause you spend too much time on the same monster

 

3:It affects everyone equally, so again, no problem.

 

just leave restoration as it is, and make harm, life/mana drain become rationality dependant.

 

4: Then I'd rather not even bother adding a mage class, because it would be useless if fighters can heal 1K HP at once..

 

1: i didn't even know ppl could die so far, thanks for pointing that out.

silly me, i really thought we were all immortal and Underworld was just a fairy tale

 

2: i'd rather not spent my time LF a healer before going into pk, there are other options but then we come to point 3, spending points to get rationaility. slowing down pp's put on p/c, thus staying on the same monster for quite some time till you can do a normal restore.

affects everyone equally but that doesn't make training on the same mob for a couple of months to get rationality and p/c up less boring.

 

3: see 2

4: i want to see you pk, around someone's stats and fight him while having someone next to you mana draining/life draining harming.

see how long you last and see if fighters are impossible to heal if they can restore all their health.

 

 

anyway, that was for the original suggestion, the compromise seems good enough

[Tauren]

Just replace the variables of the equations I gave with the numbers I used in my first post and then simplify the equation until you reach the final formula.

All I hope is that I haven't introduced any error in the previous equations because I did them quite fast as I'm actually at work...

Tyvm, I really wasn't sure where those numbers were coming from, but now it makes sense

 

Speaking of compromises, how about this:

Restoration always (if it doesn't fail) restores your full NATURAL HP, then over that it uses magic*2*(rationality/48) ?

If I well understand, it means that in my case (150 MP, 49 in magic, 12 in rationality), if I have 40 MP and I want to restore, I'll restore up to 150 MP and then have 24.5 MP more? So if I wear a CoL to have 300 MP, I'll never be able to restore over 174 MP so all the MP over 174 become totally useless, right?

Maybe I misunderstood the formula so can you precise exactly what you mean?

Do you restore natural MP + some more MP which are added to your current health? Or do you restore your full health (like if you have no CoL/MoL) and then you have some more MP over your natural MP?

What this is saying is that casting a restoration spell will heal

(matter_attribute * 5) + magic_level * 2 * (rationality_attribute / 48)

 

So if you arent wearing any matter enhancing items (col, dragon blade etc.) you will heal completely. On the other hand if you are wearing a matter enhancer, you will heal all of your natural health (which is Matter_attribute * 5) and depending on your magic level and rationality, how much extra you will heal above that.

For e.g. You have 100 health (matter_attribute = 20) and you wear a COL so it boosts your health to 250.

If you cast a restoration spell with 21 magic and 4 rationality, you will heal 100 matter + 3.5 matter.

If you have the same health as previously, but instead cast restoration with 101 magic and 48 rationality, you will once again heal 100 matter + 202 matter.

 

This method is really just trying to disfavour low level COL users, which IMO (even though I am a low level myself) is completely understandable.

[Entropy]

1: i didn't even know ppl could die so far, thanks for pointing that out.

silly me, i really thought we were all immortal and Underworld was just a fairy tale

Hahaha, you are so funny!

Speaking of it, you don't even play much anyway, much less PK or even die. You didn't die in more than a month.

And top fighters die in PK maybe once a month.

 

2: i'd rather not spent my time LF a healer before going into pk, there are other options but then we come to point 3, spending points to get rationaility. slowing down pp's put on p/c, thus staying on the same monster for quite some time till you can do a normal restore.

Or you can build your character in such a way to get less damage and not need to heal all the time? Hmm...

 

4: i want to see you pk, around someone's stats and fight him while having someone next to you mana draining/life draining harming.

see how long you last and see if fighters are impossible to heal if they can restore all their health.

Other game have "tank" builds, where you can take tons of damage but not be able inflict that much damage.

I want to have something like that in EL too. Not just have ONE build which includes fighter, tank, mage, healer, and anything in between.

 

anyway, that was for the original suggestion, the compromise seems good enough

 

I am glad that you agree with the compromise solution.

 

If I well understand, it means that in my case (150 MP, 49 in magic, 12 in rationality), if I have 40 MP and I want to restore, I'll restore up to 150 MP and then have 24.5 MP more? So if I wear a CoL to have 300 MP, I'll never be able to restore over 174 MP so all the MP over 174 become totally useless, right?

Maybe I misunderstood the formula so can you precise exactly what you mean?

 

No, basically the restore spell will be split in two:

First part will make sure that your life is equal to the max life (in case it is smaller). Then it will add to it the formula.

 

Here is the pseudocode:

if player life<max player natural life
then player life = max player natural life
if player life < max player life with col/mol/etc.
then add the material points given by the formula to the player life, and make sure it's not over the max total life.

[korrode]

My previous post in this thread didn't really say what my formula preference was, i'll just clarify, firstly with this quote of my post in another thread:

Please don't let this desire for a mage class cause everyone to lose sight of why the attribute cap was so strongly needed in the first place.

This is the biggest thing worrying me atm. We manage to get the 48 cap through - hurrah for a 'fixed' PK situation...

and now we have the threat of what will be you're average PK'er player (say, a/d 90's - 110, ~50's mag, OA ~110-120, Rationality 12-14, 96-112 mana, no purchased nexus or pick points, and just a few more nexus than Human:7 and Inorg:2) not being able to restore more than ~50 health.... PK will be destroyed again, the players who are currently labeled "unkillable" will be the only people able to max out p/c/r/w (and possibly more attributes), and they will remain; unkillable (thats even when ganged by 7 or 8 of the above mentioned "average PK'ers").

...and then saying thats why i am for the first formula (heal=magic*1.5+rationality*5).

[Schmurk]

No, basically the restore spell will be split in two:

First part will make sure that your life is equal to the max life (in case it is smaller). Then it will add to it the formula.

 

Here is the pseudocode:

if player life<max player natural life
then player life = max player natural life
if player life < max player life with col/mol/etc.
then add the material points given by the formula to the player life, and make sure it's not over the max total life.

Ok ty for the clarification Radu

I was not far from the idea. So over your max natural life, you'll only be able to restore magic*2*rationality/48. So if I have 150 MP (which is my max life) and I do a restore while I'm wearing a CoL, it will give me only 24.5 MP and I'll have then 174 MP. And if I do another restore, I'll reach 198 and so on... right?

 

I think it's a good compromise. Fighters will still be able to restore totally their life while they are training but there will be much less trainers wearing CoLs IMO. And I think it's a good thing!