Mage class formulas

[Vanyel]

I really like the second formula for healing spells. It is a very good idea. I guess there is a missing <base> factor tho. That is:

heal=<base>*magic*9*(rationality/100)

Also, rationality/100 could vary from 0.04 to... 0.48. Isn't it a bit too low?

As far magic immunity - the formula looks alright.

[Marcvs]

The first formula seems to be well balanced...but why don't we add a little stuff to that one: like if the formula result is more than ur total base matter points, the extra points over that limit will divided by 3. This will penalize people that fight with col and/or mol, and gives full advantage on who fights with the natural armors helms (Is very rare to see someone wearing a full armor because they mostly wear a col instead of the proper helm).

 

So an example:

 

if you have mag 30,rationality 10 and 80 matter points, you will heal 80 + (15/3) = 85 points. If you have 100 matter points, you will restore 95 points as well.

[Entropy]

I was thinking if we went with cooldown based on rationality something like cooldown = 200/rationality would be a reasonable formula.

 

I was thinking of something more linear, such as cooldown (in seconds) = 52-rationality

And this would apply to every single spell as well.

 

I really like the second formula for healing spells. It is a very good idea. I guess there is a missing <base> factor tho. That is:

heal=<base>*magic*9*(rationality/100)

Also, rationality/100 could vary from 0.04 to... 0.48. Isn't it a bit too low?

As far magic immunity - the formula looks alright.

 

I think you are missing the "9" in the formula

[FatboyJaxx]

I was thinking of something more linear, such as cooldown (in seconds) = 52-rationality

And this would apply to every single spell as well.

 

 

Yes, that formula sounds very reasonable to me.

[Entropy]

The first formula seems to be well balanced...

The first formula is not more ballanced, it just makes it so that you don't have to be a powerful mage in order to restore a lot of health.

 

 

but why don't we add a little stuff to that one: like if the formula result is more than ur total base matter points, the extra points over that limit will divided by 3. This will penalize people that fight with col and/or mol, and gives full advantage on who fights with the natural armors helms (Is very rare to see someone wearing a full armor because they mostly wear a col instead of the proper helm).

 

This is also a very valid idea.

[Cyberwulf]

I seems this game shall be only a fighting PK game in Future no one thinking on Harveter (cap) (me -120 emu at cap 48) and now this shall do forbidden mixing with Toadstool?

 

i can't find a good side on both changings

 

maybe when the chance to poison from Toadstool goes from 5% to 1% its evtl. a way there :/

[Aepox]

Seeing as magic is so much harder and more expensive to level than attack/defence I think the people who play the mage class should be rewarded for their hard work.

 

I think the high level mages should get more "bang for their buck". Ie a mage with high level and/or rationality should get more bonus from their stats than a lowlvl mage.

 

Formulas in like...

Square root of (MagicLvL*Rationality) * 5

Square root of (MagicLvL^2 + Rationality^2) * 4

Square root of (MagicLvL*2 + Rationality^2) * 6

 

With Magic lvl 10 and Rat 10 / Magic lvl 100 and rat 48 your formula gives

 

MagicLvL*1.5 +Rat*5 = 65 / 390

 

The suggested ones with same stats

Square root of (MagicLvL*Rationality) * 5

=50 / 346

Square root of (MagicLvL^2 + Rationality^2) * 4

=56 / 443

Square root of (MagicLvL*2 + Rationality^2) * 6

=66 / 300

 

Depending on how much you want it to scale..

 

Problem is when/if people reach really high magic levels.

 

Also haven't really tested the formulas but the should be close to the numbers you get with your first formula

Edited December 17, 2007 by Aepox

[Vanyel]

I was thinking if we went with cooldown based on rationality something like cooldown = 200/rationality would be a reasonable formula.

 

I was thinking of something more linear, such as cooldown (in seconds) = 52-rationality

And this would apply to every single spell as well.

 

I really like the second formula for healing spells. It is a very good idea. I guess there is a missing <base> factor tho. That is:

heal=<base>*magic*9*(rationality/100)

Also, rationality/100 could vary from 0.04 to... 0.48. Isn't it a bit too low?

As far magic immunity - the formula looks alright.

 

I think you are missing the "9" in the formula

 

Is the 9 for all healing spells or just restoration. I was supposing you're going to redo all healing spells. My fault then. Sorry. (I thought the 9 is to make the influence of rationality/100 a slightly bigger;p)

[evilmangopie]

I really like Jaxx's idea. I like both his and Ent's formula for it. Would let a mage quickly fire out tele to range's to escape from the fighter, then a harm and continue the process. I still think would be nice with some more offensive spells . The magic immunity removal looks quite nice to me, especially with the random factor possibly from astrology added. I think so far this thread has provided a lot of good

[Guest Lucjusz]

I was thinking if we went with cooldown based on rationality something like cooldown = 200/rationality would be a reasonable formula.

 

I was thinking of something more linear, such as cooldown (in seconds) = 52-rationality

And this would apply to every single spell as well.

 

In one hour I can harv 120 unit, and everyone knows that harve exp i slow....

With this formula I will be able to cast only 75 spell

 

Who will use EMP when he will be able to use 2 SR before he can cast restor?

[Entropy]

I seems this game shall be only a fighting PK game in Future no one thinking on Harveter (cap) (me -120 emu at cap 48) and now this shall do forbidden mixing with Toadstool?

 

i can't find a good side on both changings

 

maybe when the chance to poison from Toadstool goes from 5% to 1% its evtl. a way there :/

 

[Kjata]

the first formula looks more balanced, the second one is very punitive especially for low to middle level characters;

 

This is my opinion as well. My magic lvl is 47 with a rationality of 8...

currently I can restore up to 270 hp,

with the first formula, I would restore ((47*1.5)+(8*5))=110 hp,

with the second formula, I would restore (47*9*.08)=33 hp

 

I consider myself low to middle level character.

[nicky]

Second Formula Please.

 

A nice change IMO

[Entropy]

In one hour I can harv 120 unit, and everyone knows that harve exp i slow....

With this formula I will be able to cast only 75 spell

 

Ok, this is also a very valid point.

[toban]

Personally, and I speak solely for myself, if we must have one of these proposed formulas, I could deal with the first one. The second newly suggest formula is to restrictive for any use for myself. It may be of great use to some others, but I can't speak for others.

 

At only OA 113, it's just not feasible for my usage, thus reducing me back to a harvester only and that time has come and gone. This is a dynamic game, changes are common, most times good, some times, trial and error. I've enjoy playing EL, the 60+ hours I put in a week should reflect that much if nothing else, but I fear the second formula is not adequate enough to keep me competitive, reducing my participation considerably.

 

Ultimately, it's up to yourself Entropy, after all, it's your world, I'm just a visitor. I don't normally voice my personal opinion on your suggestions, I just vote, but when a suggestion of this magnitude will effect me so drastically, I had to say something. I apologize taking up your time if you don't agree with me, that's everyone's right to disagree, it keeps things moving.

 

 

Now, there are two kinds of formulas:

One that adds stuff, such as the heal=magic*1.5+rationality*5

And another one that uses the rationality as a magic level amplifier: heal=magic*9*(rationality/100)

The second formula would allow about magic*4.5 healpoints restored when a player maxed their rationality. So with a magic of 100 (very hard to get) you'd have around 432 healed.

 

[Schmurk]

In my concern I prefer the second formula for the restoration but I think it should be adjusted. In fact, I think we should consider how many MP a player could recover if he has magic 21 with 4 in rationality and how many MP could recover a player with magic 101 (to have a more rounded formula) and still 4 in rationality. If we say for example that a player can recover 150 MP in the last case, we obtain the first formula:

30 + (magic level - 21)*120/(101 - 21)) = 30 + (magic level - 21)*1.5 = magic level * 1.5 - 1.5

 

Then, we have to consider how many MP can recover a player with 101 in magic and 48 in rationality. First, if a player have 48 in matter and if he wears a CoL and a MoL, he can reach a maximum of 420 MP. So I think that a restore of 400 MP is correct. So when the player has a rationality of 48, he should have a maximum modifier of 400/150 which is also 8/3. But if he has a rationality of 4 he should have a modifier of 1. Now, if we put the rationality in the formula (I skip some details), we obtain the following modifier:

1 + ((rationality - 4) * (8-3)/3) / (48 - 4) = 1 + (rationality - 4) * 5/132 = (rationality * 5 + 112) / 132.

 

So we obtain our final formula which is the following:

(magic level * 1.5 - 1.5) * (rationality * 5 + 112) / 132

 

Well, it's a bit complex but at least, it's a totally controlled formula

And of course, it can be tuned a bit in order to remove some weird numbers. For example, we can use the following one instead:

magic level * 1.5 * (rationality * 5 + 110) / 130

 

This last one gives 31.5 MP for a player with magic 21 and rationality of 4 and almost 404 MP for a player at magic level 100 and with 48 in rationality.

 

And for me, (magic 49, rationality of 12) it gives 96 MP which is quite acceptable.

 

Now, about the magic nexus, I also think it should be considered in the magic skill but not to give more power to a spell but to allow only players who have the good nexus to cast some powerful spells.

[HeLLRaiZeR]

I really do think that the first formula is the best one. Sure, having a benefit in spending pp's on rationality is all cool but giving the people that doesn't wish to do so huge penalties is not. As some guy said, 21 magic + 4 rationality = 33MP restore..

[anthropologist]

If we go the Nexus way, we'd need at least 30 in magic nexus in order to be a competitive mage.

 

As for the fighter maxing their reasoning, that's never going to happen. They have to max their phy, coo, will, instinct (if they want to dodge misisles or summon double monsters), vitality (for more mana and toughness)..

 

Actually we will be interested in reasoning to max our dexterity (so that we can hit stuff). the only question will be which builds we find the most beneficial. Will extra toughness be better than good heal? Gonna be interesting to find out.

[agis29]

Having a mage class in the game is something really nice.

I agree that magic should be more important and i really love the idea of a magic immunity removal spell from a pure mage.

I just want to say some things about restoration.

No other games allow full restoration but players have 3000 HP'S and even more and not 300 like el.

There are trinkets and spells that absorve all physical or magic damage for seconds and and br's restore thousand of Hp's.

On the other hand death in other games doesn't cost 16000gc.

Consider all the above as extra information. Nothing more, nothing less.

[anthropologist]

I really do think that the first formula is the best one. Sure, having a benefit in spending pp's on rationality is all cool but giving the people that doesn't wish to do so huge penalties is not. As some guy said, 21 magic + 4 rationality = 33MP restore..

 

 

There have always been penalties involved in where you chose to place your pps, this just shits them a lil. As has been mentioned before, there does seem to be a bit more penalty on the newer players. Those of us with stats over the 48 limit are going to have pps we can immediately use to prepare for such a change. For many newer players, probably taking the advice of "only phys, coord and will!" it is gonna be a slow climb to get their stats sorted more appropriately.

Edited December 17, 2007 by anthropologist

[Entropy]

Actually we will be interested in reasoning to max our dexterity (so that we can hit stuff). the only question will be which builds we find the most beneficial. Will extra toughness be better than good heal? Gonna be interesting to find out.

 

I am sure you'd like that, but I think most of the PKers will care more about other stuff than dexterity.

After you max phy/coo, which are the most useful in PK, you will not have enough pickpoints left to max both dexterity and rationality.

 

No other games allow full restoration but players have 3000 HP'S and even more and not 300 like el.

There are trinkets and spells that absorve all physical or magic damage for seconds and and br's restore thousand of Hp's.

 

I didn't play many MMORPGs, but in most of the RPGs I played, the health of the mobs is proportional with your health.

So in EL we have a player that has 150 life via natural means (no CoL and stuff), and a rabbit has 10 health.

 

In some other game where the player has 3K health, then the rabbit will have 200 health, and the dragon 30K.

[Shujral]

I like the first system

 

Saying someone has max will of 48(26 rationality), and 50 magic (decent magic, no fail restore), they would restore 205 health. For a high level player who might have closer to 300 health, this would recover about 2/3 of their health, and would take a large investment of PP's (44) to get here. I do not think that this formula makes restore too easy at all

 

-Shuj

[conavar]

If we go the Nexus way, we'd need at least 30 in magic nexus in order to be a competitive mage.

 

 

That all depends on what number you put to each nexus point

if the formula was

 

magic level * 1.5 + magic nexus *10

 

then a mage of level 80 with nexus of 20 would heal = 320hp

maybe not all of his hp but a good portion of them and he has made the concious choice to put those pp into magic nexus ( going the mage path)

and using magic nexus could also be used to work out the formula for other spells... harm, mana/life drain, how much an opponent is poisoned, length of invis spell etc etc and then players could have a " true mage"

 

 

if Ents formula are used, I think that a restore spell being the level it is should have a base heal to start with

 

ie: heal = 50 ( base heal ) +magic*1.5+rationality*5

 

 

nexus imo could be used for a lot more for other skills in this way

 

Animal nexus could be used for how strong a mob summoned from a stone is ( nexus of 10 mob is 100% , nexus of 5 mob is only 50%)

 

On the subject of summoning and any summoning noob(me ) being able to buy stone's and be just as powerful as someone who has trained summoning. maybe the stone's should need the same animal nexus to use as it needs to summon the animal does.

Edited December 17, 2007 by conavar

[Tauren]

Now, there are two kinds of formulas:

One that adds stuff, such as the heal=magic*1.5+rationality*5

And another one that uses the rationality as a magic level amplifier: heal=magic*9*(rationality/100)

Personally, I'd rather use the second formula, because it uses the rationality as a skill amplifier, rather than as a constant bonus.

Yes I agree with your statement that the second is more realistic as a mage will need to increase both magic level and rationality for there to be any reasonable amount of restoration involved.

Now everyone that is substituting their stats into these formulas is finding that the first formula is much more favourable healing wise. Well for starters, the formula hasn't been set yet, the multipliers can be increased. But what I don't like about this formula is that if the formula is changed to favour the lower level players, this will make it too easy for top players to make a full restore. How about a formula that instead begins with a decent restore, but increases at a slower rate each level up of magic/rationality?

 

heal = 30 + magic * 7 * (rationality/120) ?

 

 

With magic immunity removal, it looks like 0 percent chance of removing magic immune if your magic lvl and rat are lower than the target's. Is there a way to still leave a small chance? Something like:

(magic_caster*2*(rationality_caster/100)-magic_targe*2*(rationality_target/100))+5

 

Otherwise I see many people giving up on that spell for fear of just wasting mana.

 

Yes, of course, a small random modifier (perhaps given by the astrology) can be used. But there is little difference between 0% and 5% anyway (in practice).

 

BTW, as a compromise, I will slightly reduce the cooldown for the healing potions and make them stackable.

I was going to offer to give the caster an increased chance of removing the magic immunity from the target, but if astro is going to play a role... then I guess there is no point

But just in case many players dont even bother trying to cast this spell on a higher player (astro or not) -

 

% = magic_caster * 2 * (rationality_caster/100) - magic_target * 1.8 * (rationality_target/120)

 

 

edit: lol conavar just beat me to the base heal

Edited December 17, 2007 by Tauren

[TirunCollimdus]

In one hour I can harv 120 unit, and everyone knows that harve exp i slow....

With this formula I will be able to cast only 75 spell

 

Ok, this is also a very valid point.

 

If the cooldown is made to effect each spell individually then you could cast far more than 75 spells per hour. If you are training your magic on one spell because you are low level then you just have to put something into rationality or you will be hosed. If you are a fighter with minimal rationality from the start this will definitely hurt. Healing up to att 17 is free so that is not a problem IMO for lower level players who cannot cast much more than heal anyway.

 

Will each spell have its own cooldown? Will rationality effect every cooldown? I cannot see the mage being at all useful if you do not get a separate cooldown for each spell.

 

TirunCollimdus