Mage class, Fighter class

[Ice]

I suggested this a long time ago, but how about adding an Arcane Nexus, that would be needed for Mages.

 

Spell Level

1-10 level - No Nexus

11-20 - 1pt Arcane Nexus needed

21-30 - 2pt Arcane Nexus needed

31-40 - 3pt Arcane Nexus needed

41-50 - 4pt Arcane Nexus needed

 

This would help separate the class's and if you really wanted to make it difficult for the dual class battle mage, then require that the arcane nexus be subtracted form the highest human nexus armor. If you were wearing a thermal serpant sword you would need an arcane nexus of 10 to cast 1-30th level spells.

 

It's JusT a thought.

[larrystorch]

I had a nice glimpse of how deadly two mages with one fighter can be during yesterday's invasion. After losing a rost too many, I donned my CoM(giving me 246 mana), FR cape and grabbed a bunch of esses and srs and tagged along with MacNathan who was to be my tank and a lower level caster.

 

The three of us wandered Western Ida looking for the last remaining giants. With Mac tanking, the other Mage remote healing Mac and me Harming(magic level 57), we were able to kill a giant very quickly AND get a very nice db to split between us.

 

Using the above as an example and assuming that magic immunity will no longer be 100% down the road, I can see a team of 2 or 3 fighters and a pair of mages and a good summoner completing owning anything in it's path.

 

As far as what attribute to use as the key attribute for a mage class, I can see Charm being a good choice. I'm an all arounder and my pp's are mostly geared towards fighting and good exp. (Will 20) which gives me a very low Charm But I also think most fighters also are in the same boat as me.

 

I would like to be a good enough mage AND a decent fighter with this new system, but placing pp's is going to be a challenge, but I think it will be worth it for the game in general. No more pp placements as a given. All the old rules will be gone and it will be good.

 

Sorry for the Tolstoy, but I'm bored at work

[evilmangopie]

I really like some of the recent discussion about this. And I really think it can work, and should work . Although this game is "without classes" having some rough classes that you can mix and cross between is perfect. IMO being a complete all-rounder should be very hard and this would made it like that. Being someone who can fight with a full armour and sword as well as very easily cast constant magic spells has always seemed a bit weird to me, and this would really stop most of that. I just hope nobody maxes out all stats, with uber high a/d, and can pwn everyone

 

Great idea!

[halsort]

Kylass, you'll be restoring 130 HP with the new formula. Ent has said earlier those who are farther ahead deserve an advantage for their work. However, the advantage is smaller than you think. The following is fictional, but consistent with a high-level player.

 

OA: 136

A/D: 120/132

P/C/W: 40/100/20

Perks Taken: PowerHungry, ScottyDied, Antisocial

Human Nexus from Hydro Bars.

 

After the cap, this player would get 52 PPs back. 8 would go to Phys, leaving 44 PPs. There are many options for where to put them, reasoning being one of the least desirable. Will and Vitality would make for a better fighter. In any case, this player has only 44 PPs to redistribute, all while keeping in mind that perception below 20 may be unwise. It would take 32 PPs to get perception to 20. Now there are 12 PPs left. This player won't be the pwn-all-others type as before. There's still an advantage here, but not one as significant as 100 coord.

So I am confused by what determines being further ahead for people to deserve an advantage.If you had put 8 points into phys so your coord is 92 and not 100 you only get 36pps to redistribute instead of 44 but you are not further ahead in the game.See my extreme example previously where the split is a lot higher.

With the new builds that are now going to be needed not everyone might automatically want to immediately max physique before they get 10 or 20 perception.

 

Just because someone has gone over 48 in coordination does not make them further ahead in the game.In my example with Player A and Player B both players were at the same stage,it just happens that there builds were different!

There can be no definitive guide to someone being further ahead in the game unless everyone was building their characters identically.Admittedly a lot of players have gone down the line of topping out coordination but surely not all.

[halsort]

At the moment most rpgs that i know have pure mage classes and I am pleased that Ent is trying to make this possible in EL.

However all these rpgs enable a beginner to the game to be able to kill some monsters with magic in order to progress.

EL does not, in fact you have to be level 12 in the game before you get your first attack spell.

 

So even with the changes that are proposed this isnt going to change.

 

But if lower level easier spells are introduced I feel they need to be some way of restricting them to just mage classes.The introduction of an arcane nexus as mentioned earlier may be the way forward, with a new player having to choose between fighter or mage and if they chose mage they get an initial arcane nexus and attack spell.The arcane nexus can then all be tied up to future magic levels and restore spell etc.

 

We have to look after new players as well as existing players.

[bkc56]

There's a lot I don't understand about how a new mage class will work in EL. I like the idea, I'm just confused about how one will make it work.

 

As others have pointed out, EMU is one concern. It seem like the more useful/powerful a spell is, the more essence it uses. Intercontinental is 26 ess, Invisibility (for what, 10 seconds?) is 30 ess. Even the simpler ones (heal summoned, harm) use 6. With lower EMU based on a different PP allocation, how are mages going to carry enough essence to be effective for very long?

 

Another thing I wonder about is mana levels. Casting spells eats through a lot of mana. Even with more will and/or CoM, mana will be a limiting factor. Yes, one can carry SRs, but that further cuts into the ess count. How is a mage going to maintain enough mana to be effective?

 

I watch my kid play a mage character in WoW. He can cast an amazing array and number of spells doing huge damage from a long way away (so there's no chance to be engaged by the target). And when it's over some simple actions (not sure what) will re-fill his mana so he's ready to do it again. No trips to storage to re-stock, no running out of ingredients, etc.

 

I'm NOT saying a mage class won't work, but I don't yet understand how all the pieces will fit together to make a class that's truely on-par with a fighter.

[Fourier]

I really like the fact that magic is being considered for some rework.

 

In my opinion, to be a viable mage, a high level mage should be

equal in PK to a high level fighter. Of course, tactics and methodologies

will be very different, suiting personal taste and making the game

much more interesting. Then some really fun fighter vs mage

PK events will occur.

 

By high level I mean Fighter 100/100/50/36/40/4/20 a/d/magic/p/c/w/r vs a Mage

50/50/80/20/28/32/20 a/d/magic/p/c/w/r. This is simply for sake of discussion

and an attempt to 'balance' work load to get to a high level. If you have different

numbers in mind, please substitute them, but these numbers are for illustration,

not the point of the thread.

 

For a high level mages, with some attribute + level modifiers

as being discussed in this thread, I still see 2 major weaknesses that

keep a high level mage from being a viable PK character.

 

Cool Down - For the sake of argument, assume our high level mage has

150 EPs. This translates to ~ 9 harm spells, or ~8 restore spells. Add

1 or 2 SRs, and you get 2-3 more harms or restores. However, you also

have to cast MI, maybe shield, and hopefully some of the new spells s is

considering. However, the fighter, with fewer EPs, say 80, only has to

restore and cast MI with his EPs. The fighter gets an infinite number of

damage opportunities. The mage may do 90 damage per Harm spell, but

the fighter does 40-60 per hit with no limit. With a few restores, the fighter

easily outlasts the mage, who is stuck waiting for SRs cool down to

do anything else.

 

There are several ways to handle this problem. 1. Reduce SR/EMP cool down

by some formula as the mage gets higher level and attributes. 2. Reduce the

EPs consumed for a spell, again in conjunction with level and attributes. 3. Increase

the EP recovery rate in association with level and attributes. 4. Increase the amount

of EPs recovered from SRs/EMPs based on level and attributes.

 

Failures. The other problem is the magic failure rate, imho, although much less

of a problem than cool down. Magic fails, but attacks do not. Attacks do miss

or get blocked, but there are magic equivalents to these in spells and modifiers.

I remember when I first started restoring at magic lvl 21, i had at least a 50% failure

rate. This just wont work in combat. I know that if I get 30ish levels over the

beginning magic level for a spell, the failure rate is 0 or close to 0. But some of

the more important spells occur at higher levels where getting 30 more magic

levels is much more difficult than getting 30 more a/d levels. I suggest reducing

the failure rate by using the attribute also. Maybe this can get the failure rate

to 25% at spell introduction level and down to 10% 5 levels over introduction.

 

4

[Entropy]

Fourier:

Your example of a fighter VS. a mage is not very valid. If you put both of them in the arena, the fighter should (and will) win hands down, no question about it.

It's like saying that a fighter and a stealther should be equal in an arena. That's not gonna happen.

 

The idea is that the mages can go in groups and stalk the fighters (harm, teleport, maybe go invisible, and so on).

[conavar]

 

 

The idea is that the mages can go in groups and stalk the fighters (harm, teleport, maybe go invisible, and so on).

 

I dont know if it is workable or even practical , but imo a big plus for a mage would be if the system of auto attack was removed for spells, then the mage can stand at a distance and cast spells and then its down to the fighter to "chase down" the mage

[Entropy]

That can be done at night, where the fighter might not see you.

Or 3 mages can come invisible, and harm the fighter all at once. With some luck, if the fighter is not wearing gear that has magic resistence, you can kill him in a few seconds.

[Burfoot]

Your example of a fighter VS. a mage is not very valid. If you put both of them in the arena, the fighter should (and will) win hands down, no question about it.

 

I agree in close combat but,

I Always picture a Mage throwing fireballs (or a storm of arrows?) From a distance.. maybe a spell cast from a greater distance would even thing up a bit?

[Wizzy]

Your example of a fighter VS. a mage is not very valid. If you put both of them in the arena, the fighter should (and will) win hands down, no question about it.

 

I agree in close combat but,

I Always picture a Mage throwing fireballs (or a storm of arrows?) From a distance.. maybe a spell cast from a greater distance would even thing up a bit?

 

It would seem that the upcoming achery skill may be well suited for mages also

[XaRondas]

I like the idea of mages , fighters etc and i really don t have any problem with pps that will be needed

 

The first i thought was that this change will help potioners (more a/d/p/c/v/acc pots).

 

What i would like to see is making the pots of great healing easier to make ( ex. no need for binding stone) ,

 

this would help medium a/d fighters with a low magic level <50

 

 

Draugluin

Edited December 17, 2007 by draugluin1

[darkguy]

Personally I like the current system on restoration spell, it allows you train greatly and it quite fits the name "Restoration". I wouldn't want a cap or difference on restoration spell to be honest. That's all I'm going to say.

 

Chimmy

[Entropy]

Personally I like the current system on restoration spell, it allows you train greatly and it quite fits the name "Restoration". I wouldn't want a cap or difference on restoration spell to be honest. That's all I'm going to say.

 

Chimmy

 

Well, obviously, it is much more convenient on how it is now. But this still makes strong fighters almost impossible to kill, especially when they will have 400 HPs.

With how things work now, so long as the fighter has lots of potions and essences, killing him will be extremly difficult.

 

Ok, this thread's purpose was to determine if people want some classes, and it seems that most of them want the classes. I'll make another thread where we can talk about the specifics of it.