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Mage class, Fighter class

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Magic*1.5+rationality*5 seems a better restoration formula than the previous one to me, I think making it based more on magic than rationality is a good idea. Training magic at higher levels is quite time consuming and expensive, so I think there should be some kind of incentive for it. Even magic*2+rationality*5 shouldn't be too much, depends on how much hp you'd like a typical player to be able to restore - 80 magic is a lot, from what I was able to see on toplists only 15 players have that much, I'd say an average is around 40-50.

Imho formula for damage spells is OK, it should work fine and it's always possible to tweak it later.

Btw: restoration spell is used commonly by everyone on Draia, and not only by PKers, some people tend to forget that.

 

There is one reason I like the whole idea - I'll have a motivation to train my magic above lvl 50, because for non-PK people there is none atm. I'd say test it on PK server, then if it works fine bring it on to the main :)

Edited by Lotheneil

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Well, since most of the people are in favour for this idea, there is no point in having a vote on it.

I guess the restoration will be magic*1.5+rationality*5, which means magic is even more important, but rationality is a good attribute to have.

The formula for the other spells is satisfactory I hope?

 

:)

 

 

Might be interesting to see how many active players in just the lvl 80 - 100 range this will affect.

 

 

Since I fall into the 80-100 range I will comment.

 

At the moment with a COL I have 275hp and under the new restore system I would only be able to heal 114 hp of that at one go ...... is that a problem, well not to me , I will just heal sooner than normal, hence getting more magic xp and increasing my magic level and restore power, so it will work out in the end.

 

and to me it only seems logical that a player with 80 magic heals more than myself with 46 magic

 

edit:

 

In all fairness though IMO the topic should be left running until at least Monday evening, to give players time to digest the information and also some players might have been away for the weekend.

and then have a poll on Tuesday ( but just a poll, players vote and thats it, no need for another discussion like normally happens)

Edited by conavar

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Will there be any mage related perks? Other then Conjurer.

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An excellent idea which makes sense and adds again a lot to the game, looking forward to it.

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While we are at healing, restoration will be no longer as good as it was, then how about making body restoration potions useful again? Well at last for low-medium lvl fighters. Preferably making them stackable and lowering cooldown, but any adjustments are welcome.

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While we are at healing, restoration will be no longer as good as it was, then how about making body restoration potions useful again? Well at last for low-medium lvl fighters. Preferably making them stackable and lowering cooldown, but any adjustments are welcome.

 

It would be nice if they were stackable... I would consider using them, being I have to make them to level in pots anyway.

 

 

I would heal less with the decided formula than the first one, but I DO like it better, (even though it would suck for me...) I would only heal 149 (Magic 33 and 20 Rat), BUT I love that it'll depend mostly on the magic level :) So I just have to use more HEs is all, no big deal since I make them too :P

 

but please, please make the Restore Pots more useful :)

Edited by Lexi

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While we are at healing, restoration will be no longer as good as it was, then how about making body restoration potions useful again? Well at last for low-medium lvl fighters. Preferably making them stackable and lowering cooldown, but any adjustments are welcome.

 

I think the attribute cap will cause alot of systems in this game to get looked at again, like we're doing here with magic.

 

With the new proposed restore, maybe more Body Restoration and Greater Healing pots will be used and create a demand for these to finally be made in large quantities. Under the magic*1.5+rationality*5 formula, I'll restore 165 health, so it's gonna make sense for me to use them from time to time to augment my restores when using a CoL. At lower a/d levels, Life Drain might become a favored spell for a quick hit point boost. Sure it will take away some a/d experience, but to some, it will be worth it.

 

I think the attribute cap is going to give this game a whole new look. :)

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Well, since most of the people are in favour for this idea, there is no point in having a vote on it.

I guess the restoration will be magic*1.5+rationality*5, which means magic is even more important, but rationality is a good attribute to have.

The formula for the other spells is satisfactory I hope?

 

It's not like they cannot be tweaked if needed, right? I would say let's try it and if something needs changes it may be done with time. We will never know unless we try.

I think like Kheres, we should check how it works with the first and second formula. Maybe divide spells for two groups, where magic is more important, and where rationality gives a bit more than skill level. Make defence and offence spells or something. Just an idea.

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I don't think I'm the only one that thinks this formula is still a bit off. For example, it basically forces you to take reasoning if you want a full or close to full restore. If you take will your health goes up by 5 when you add 2 pp's and your restore also goes up by 5....

 

This basically forces people to have their pp's spread across all the attributes which I think is going to make most characters builds pretty much the same.

 

For example, when it looked like the attribute cap was going to come in I thought about my pickpoint distribution. I'm not primarily a fighter and I don't really PK often but I like to train and participate in invasions so I was thinking instinct was the right choice for me for training, if restoration is based on rationality I have no choice but to put them on reasoning. If I take reasoning it's going to be much more difficult to train because I'll be hitting much more often. I'm 100+ OA atm and pickpoints are starting to get hard, not to mention I already have nearly 30 on nexus.

 

I think what I'm trying to say is this is going to be very difficult for all-rounders to get even half-decent in different aspects of the game. Before this I knew I'd never be able to take on the top fighters etc but that didn't bother me. If we get restoration based on rationality though I wont even stand a chance against mid-level fighters that can afford to spend pp's on reasoning and also I wont be able to tank high level creatures like giants like I used to be able to. I never had a chance of killing a giant before but at least I could resist them long enough for others to do damage and even to get a couple of hits in myself.

 

Another point is that this is going to increase the amount of SR's/HE's I use significantly. I already get through thousands of HE's a week and making it even more is going to mean I have to spend half my time in trass cave making HE's. Correct me if you disagree but this is not my idea of fun and fun is what a game is supposed to be about.

 

I'm not trying to slag off the idea, in fact I really like the idea of making magic a more valuable aspect of the game but I think restoration is something that could be left how it is without any adverse effects. Making harm etc more powerful using a formula of magic level and rationality is a great idea and will make for more mage-like characters but making restoration so weak is going to make the game a lot more dull in my eyes.

 

Well, since most of the people are in favour for this idea, there is no point in having a vote on it.

I guess the restoration will be magic*1.5+rationality*5, which means magic is even more important, but rationality is a good attribute to have.

The formula for the other spells is satisfactory I hope?

 

Although this does seem to be the general consensus from people who have contributed to the thread I have spoken to a lot of people in-game who have exactly the same concerns as myself.

 

Comments, counter-arguments, support or whatever anyone wants to throw at me are welcomed. Maybe you can help me see what would be good about changing the restoration spell in this way that outweighs the points I have outlined above.

 

Please note I know I have talked a lot about how it will affect ME but mine is the character I know best and I'm sure it applies to a lot of other people too.

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Fatboyjaxx u want to train with CoL w/o giving any pps in will/reasoning yes? On low lvl mobs?

Ppl trained on them w/o col and all high end stuff just fine, i know coz i made that way 147 oa lvl and a125d135(perkless, 13 pps in nexuses) if i could do that u can do that too :D

 

Btw, i already found out a way for a fighter to train in col and not "waste"pps for a will attribute even if u r low/medium lvl fighter/trainer, think about it and u will find out urself too ;)

Of coz u wont have very big emu but for training pupouses it wont be that much needed, especially on low lvl mobs with CoL and steel/tit set :)

 

mp

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I don't think I'm the only one that thinks this formula is still a bit off. For example, it basically forces you to take reasoning if you want a full or close to full restore. If you take will your health goes up by 5 when you add 2 pp's and your restore also goes up by 5....

 

This basically forces people to have their pp's spread across all the attributes which I think is going to make most characters builds pretty much the same.

 

<snip...>

Actually, I think you have pointed out the main reason for it. ;) It does force people to make a comitment and live with the consequences. Each "class" would have its benefits, and penalties. If you choose to go pure fighter, then you heal like a fighter, and not a mage. If you choose to spread your stats, you'll be more balanced, but not be nearly as strong in either side, and the arguement extends into magic as well.

 

I see the CoM being a fighter tool (needing way more mana now to keep the heals going) and the CoL being a mage tool (so they can survive the melee onslaught long enough to use their magic effectively.) I also see things like bronze armor becoming important to fighters, so they can survive the nasty damage possible by 'mages'.

 

It adds so many possibilities, and combinations, it will require much thought before training, or considering pk. It will also encourage more teamwork in 'tough' situations.

Edited by DogBreath

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I don't think I'm the only one that thinks this formula is still a bit off. For example, it basically forces you to take reasoning if you want a full or close to full restore. If you take will your health goes up by 5 when you add 2 pp's and your restore also goes up by 5....

 

This basically forces people to have their pp's spread across all the attributes which I think is going to make most characters builds pretty much the same.

 

For example, when it looked like the attribute cap was going to come in I thought about my pickpoint distribution. I'm not primarily a fighter and I don't really PK often but I like to train and participate in invasions so I was thinking instinct was the right choice for me for training, if restoration is based on rationality I have no choice but to put them on reasoning. If I take reasoning it's going to be much more difficult to train because I'll be hitting much more often. I'm 100+ OA atm and pickpoints are starting to get hard, not to mention I already have nearly 30 on nexus.

 

I think what I'm trying to say is this is going to be very difficult for all-rounders to get even half-decent in different aspects of the game. Before this I knew I'd never be able to take on the top fighters etc but that didn't bother me. If we get restoration based on rationality though I wont even stand a chance against mid-level fighters that can afford to spend pp's on reasoning and also I wont be able to tank high level creatures like giants like I used to be able to. I never had a chance of killing a giant before but at least I could resist them long enough for others to do damage and even to get a couple of hits in myself.

 

Another point is that this is going to increase the amount of SR's/HE's I use significantly. I already get through thousands of HE's a week and making it even more is going to mean I have to spend half my time in trass cave making HE's. Correct me if you disagree but this is not my idea of fun and fun is what a game is supposed to be about.

 

I'm not trying to slag off the idea, in fact I really like the idea of making magic a more valuable aspect of the game but I think restoration is something that could be left how it is without any adverse effects. Making harm etc more powerful using a formula of magic level and rationality is a great idea and will make for more mage-like characters but making restoration so weak is going to make the game a lot more dull in my eyes.

 

Well, since most of the people are in favour for this idea, there is no point in having a vote on it.

I guess the restoration will be magic*1.5+rationality*5, which means magic is even more important, but rationality is a good attribute to have.

The formula for the other spells is satisfactory I hope?

 

Although this does seem to be the general consensus from people who have contributed to the thread I have spoken to a lot of people in-game who have exactly the same concerns as myself.

 

Comments, counter-arguments, support or whatever anyone wants to throw at me are welcomed. Maybe you can help me see what would be good about changing the restoration spell in this way that outweighs the points I have outlined above.

 

Please note I know I have talked a lot about how it will affect ME but mine is the character I know best and I'm sure it applies to a lot of other people too.

 

I completely agree. The attribute cap was meant to make people chose different atribute builds, especially fighters but having rationality affect restoring would undo that. Everyone who would normally be "Hm... should I take vit or will?" will immeaditly think "Gotta get some more will". I know many people who are allready buying vit removal stones because they think this change will come and they have to get rid of vit before everyone else does.

 

I'm all for magic being used seperate from fighting. The base idea is great IMO. For tihnks like harm, poison, even remote heal a thing like this would really work, especially if some new spells are added that would fit in perfectly with this system. But using rationality to determine how much you can restore won't work easily.

 

If spells similair to sheild could be effected, as well as offensive spells, even heal (so much that if you are a "pure" mage build you can almost use it as a restore without all the ethreality and essences), as well as some new tatical spells these system really could work. And it would be great. But im just saying that there has to be a lot of tihnking, and considerate tweaking to make this idea as perfect as it can be ;)

Edited by evilmangopie

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Fatboyjaxx u want to train with CoL w/o giving any pps in will/reasoning yes? On low lvl mobs?

Ppl trained on them w/o col and all high end stuff just fine, i know coz i made that way 147 oa lvl and a125d135(perkless, 13 pps in nexuses) if i could do that u can do that too :D

 

Btw, i already found out a way for a fighter to train in col and not "waste"pps for a will attribute even if u r low/medium lvl fighter/trainer, think about it and u will find out urself too ;)

Of coz u wont have very big emu but for training pupouses it wont be that much needed, especially on low lvl mobs with CoL and steel/tit set :)

 

mp

 

 

I'm not bothered about spending pp's on will, that's fair enough but resoning is something else. If I spend enough pp's on reasoning to get a decent restore in line with my HP with a CoL on training is going to be a LOT slower due to the amount of successful hits I make. I'd like to know what your idea is for a person to train with a CoL and not put lots of pp's on will/reasoning or not use LOADS more HE's/SR's/BR's etc. Using lots more potions isn't really an option for me, I don't have any vegetal nexus because I wanted the extra pp's to spend on coord/phys (and now instinct) etc and I certainly can't afford to buy lots more potions than I already do. The only way I can see is to level my magic up a LOT, I'm already 51 mag but I'm not with the magic god due to being with the crafting god instead. The way I see it I'm going to have a very hard time getting a decent restore, either I do that or I spend a LOT more gc on potions and lots more time on HE's which to be honest will make the game even more time consuming and dull.

 

Again, comments, suggestions and corrections to my argument are welcomed.

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I'm not bothered about spending pp's on will, that's fair enough but resoning is something else. If I spend enough pp's on reasoning to get a decent restore in line with my HP with a CoL on training is going to be a LOT slower due to the amount of successful hits I make. I'd like to know what your idea is for a person to train with a CoL and not put lots of pp's on will/reasoning or not use LOADS more HE's/SR's/BR's etc. Using lots more potions isn't really an option for me, I don't have any vegetal nexus because I wanted the extra pp's to spend on coord/phys (and now instinct) etc and I certainly can't afford to buy lots more potions than I already do. The only way I can see is to level my magic up a LOT, I'm already 51 mag but I'm not with the magic god due to being with the crafting god instead. The way I see it I'm going to have a very hard time getting a decent restore, either I do that or I spend a LOT more gc on potions and lots more time on HE's which to be honest will make the game even more time consuming and dull.

 

Again, comments, suggestions and corrections to my argument are welcomed.

 

1st option to be able to use col would be raise magic lvl that actualy gives a better boost to restore than reasoning with ents forumla

 

the other is that noone said it would be an easy task in el to be an all rounder tbh it took me about a yr and a half on my old char to start evening all my stats out and alot of resets the thing is you need to work your ass off or maybe take a little less in other skills

for example i run off 4 veggy 3 arti and 3 magic most of the time that means i can craft manu and pot to a fair lvl but still gives me breathing room for attributes to a point.

 

and everybody seems to be only taking into account of restore spell here it will have other advantages aswell ....

the fact alot will raise reasoning/will a little more than usual will give them a slight exp boost (dont seem like alot but it soon adds up.

reading time will go down.

the use for col might be slightly less as higher will chars will have more hp and eth so maybe fr perk will save you alot of srs.

in pk your opponent may have a slight disadvantage because he cant restore as much as you or vice versa

knowing ent aswell there may be a hidden factor in there like a magic damage astrology based thing.

all i can say is dont knock it till you try it as with caps on attribtes aswell people are going to have abit more breathing room with pp's even tho it seems like they wont.... but look at the main fact with that you aint gonna be chasing some 100 cord char.

Edited by macca

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... restoration will be magic*1.5+rationality*5 ...

The formula for the other spells is satisfactory I hope?

Entropy,

Could you perhaps list what the other spell formulas are? All I know is that they're suppose to be stronger as your magic level gets higher. The only one I've played with much is mana-drain and the difference between a magic level 60 and a 48 isn't that great (a few extra mana, <10).

 

Perhaps others with experience can comment on some of the other level-based spells (harm, etc).

 

In order to make a true mage class, it might be necessary to increase the effect of one's magic level in the various formulas (but without seeing them, it's hard to know).

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iirc at lvl 50 magic i was harming for about 30's n from req lvl of 20 it's about 10-15 most of the time atm

edit: but it would be nice to know how other formula's work or might work if this gets implimented ;)

Edited by macca

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I think it could be good for pk, but how about training ?

If you can't restore full, do you maybe need to wait for cooldown on SRS.

Like we do with dragons now.

If you go away from the spawn to wait, can another take it, could be a lot posting in outlaws.

 

I guess we are not supposed to bring our own hèaler ? ;)

Maybe less cooldown ?

 

If we get pp back would it be nice to know how it will work, before people spend their pp, and later find out they spent them on wrong attributes.

 

You will need to use better armor/weapon and this will make manuers/crafters happy :)

 

In general I think this is a great idea, because lot of people are used to play spell_casting_class in other RPGs too (so am i) and this change will make spell casting interesting and usefull...

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You should also keep in mind the fact that many of the top fighters are also top mages. So the idea is to have not only the magic level count, but also some attribute that most of the fighters don't have and are not really willing to take.

 

Rationality seems a good one, because while it affects the mana and HPs (via WILL) and dexterity (via REASONING), getting a high rationality is not the best strategy to become a fighter.

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I think it could be good for pk, but how about training ?

If you can't restore full, do you maybe need to wait for cooldown on SRS.

Like we do with dragons now.

If you go away from the spawn to wait, can another take it, could be a lot posting in outlaws.

 

I guess we are not supposed to bring our own hèaler ? :whistle:

Maybe less cooldown ?

 

If we get pp back would it be nice to know how it will work, before people spend their pp, and later find out they spent them on wrong attributes.

 

You will need to use better armor/weapon and this will make manuers/crafters happy :P

I use the best armor/weapons :lipssealed:

I am manuer/crafter :medieval:

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Ok, possible acid test. To develop a possible magician 'class'.

 

Fighter

 

p 48, c 48, a 48, d 48

 

VRS

 

Magician

 

m 48, r 48, w 48,

 

Using the strongest damage spell, which is harm. (unless you count: life drain)

 

Who will win? Will it even be close?

 

This of course assuming that all other stats and skills are at 'starting' levels.

 

Might be interesting, to find out. Thus gauge how to adjust magic and related abilities.

Edited by Banditkills

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Ok, possible acid test. To develop a possible magician 'class'.

 

Fighter

 

p 48, c 48, a 48, d 48

 

VRS

 

Magician

 

m 48, r 48, w 48,

 

Using the strongest damage spell, which is harm. (unless you count: life drain)

 

Who will win? Will it even be close?

 

This of course assuming that all other stats and skills are at 'starting' levels.

 

Might be interesting, to find out. Thus gauge how to adjust magic and related abilities.

 

if there is the magic immunity removal spell, than i am sure that the mage would win, and the fighter may never see that mage...you know 48 reasoning will give you high perception, and you would cast on a fighter, virtually blind some harm and poison and mana drain drain drain... and if he WILL attack you diss and teleport to range....:omg: and he lost you...

 

Troger

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______

/*******\

|**ALL***|

|ROUNDER|

|********|

|***RIP**|

|********|

 

Okay so everyone gets to spend tons more time making HEs and SRs. Everyone is forced to use pick points to be stronger as a battle mage or as fighter so you cannot really fight with magic or a sword and do the other skills. Pick points suddenly are required all over everywhere and what do you have left. Levels mean nothing except in att/def. Magic lvl * 1.5: 20 * 1.5 =30, 30 * 1.5 = 45, 40 * 1.5 = 60, 50 * 1.5 = 75.

 

20 ~ 30

30 ~ 45

40 ~ 60

50 ~ 75

 

30 levels in magic and you go up 45 health? This is a powerful mage? roflmao This makes restoration little more than a joke without rationality. Magic is a LOT harder to raise than any other skill. It has no end product and only helps you do other skills. You can use magic to fight with as an end product but then you are using mana to fight and to heal. How far is that going to get you with as weak as the planned restoration is going to be? Will this pay for itself. Not on your life. You cannot train mobs with magic at this rate so where is this 'powerful' mage I keep hearing about? What a load of garbage.

 

If we stick with the 1.5 * lvl and 5 * rationality I think there must be other changes to accomodate the weakness inherent in the magic system.

 

1) Restoration should be 1 second recharge instead of 2 seconds since it does not heal hardly anything compared to the full restore.

2) The mana cost for restoration should also go down since the spell is spectacularly weaker. It should take 20 mana at most if not lower.

3) Higher magic levels could instead reduce casting costs for this or all spells.

4) Restoration could have a bonus added to the amount healed. My idea is 10 health for each 10 levels of skill in magic. This would make your levels worth more without multiplying them directly.

 

If the whole 'lets make classes bandwagon' gets jumped on we need to do it right and not half@$$ it. You want a powerful mage? Give the mage a way to fight and heal without running out of mana in two seconds.

I think making classes with the attributes like this will permanently damage all rounders but you had to work harder to be one already so it won't change much. You just will have to work even harder. IMO all of these changes are great for those who are over the cap or just starting and suck for everyone in between. Reset anyone? We deal with it. I still support the cap but I wish we had more time to talk about the rest.

 

TirunCollimdus

Edited by TirunCollimdus

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