Mage class, Fighter class

[Lexi]

On the other hand, new formula for restoration spell will become a true disaster for mixers, as it'll make mixing on toadies much harder. I've just checked - with my current stats I'll be able to heal 65/105 points of damage (depending on which stat that number depends on). Well, it might be what you intend to do, but I can't say I'm going to like this change too much

 

Well, I am a mixer, although, not too high, I am not new at it either. Now, my current rationality, I will have just the perfect attribute set up for restoration upon eating toads if this new thing is added..

 

Magic; 33 (16 divided in half)

Rationality; 20 (16 Reasoning, and 24 Will).

 

If I am getting this right...(and I normally am NOT good in math at ALL)

 

16+20=36*10=360 I only have 250 HP WITH undamaged CoL. If it connects to Rationality, and mixers get will or already have will, it shouldn't effect them. But I DO have a lot of pick points into those Attributes.

 

(editing my math mistakes)...

Lets try this again.

20(rationality)*10=200 +16(magic in half) = 216

 

Still not much of an impact, just means my magic and rat could be higher.

 

I only worry about those who don't have anything above 48 and no reasoning/rationality, royally screwed then. But maybe I am just not thinking out of the box.

 

EDIT;

Learned the equation (lol) and I'll heal 216 at my current stats, even though it's not AS good as the above, it wont make much difference

 

BTW, sorry for being uneducated in math, forgive me **cries*.

Edited December 15, 2007 by Lexi

[Entropy]

Thankfully I think it has been said already. Players above p/c 48/48 will have pickpoints to spend on rationality (reasoning/will). myself, who has trained as a mage since newbdom will have no pps to spend on rationality. A common problem with change ofcourse, and I'm sure that those that get pick points back will have chosen more rationality given the new needs. Perhaps there could be a period in which every player may remove up to 8 spent pickpoints for respending, even those already capped.

 

Obviously, those with over 48 p/c worked hard for their PPs, so they deserve an advantage, yes?

You, on the other hand, have the advantage that it is easier for you to get PPs. And people can still use the stones to reconfigure their build.

 

The restoration formula is also not set in stone. Like someone else proposed, it could be magic*1.5+rationality*5

[FatboyJaxx]

I have to say I like the idea but, like others in this thread, I think the formula needs adjusting a bit. When we have the cap people will have more pp's on phys and will so generally people will have more HP than they have now. With your current suggested formula it's going to take several restores for a lower levelled player to regain all their HP. With 2 seconds between spells and the amount of mana restoration uses I can see it becoming impractical. I have a reasonable magic level and rationality but I'd still only be able to regain 125 HP.

 

I do think it is a good idea though, just that the formula should be made a bit more generous for restoration.

 

EDIT: After reading the post before mine with the other formula (magic*1.5+rationality*5) I realised in that situation I would also gain 125HP per restore, so no change for me.

Edited December 15, 2007 by FatboyJaxx

[molime]

Magic; 33 (16 divided in half)

Rationality; 20 (16 Reasoning, and 24 Will).

 

If I am getting this right...(and I normally am NOT good in math at ALL)

 

16+20=36*10=360 I only have 250 HP WITH undamaged CoL.

You're not getting this right . It would be 16 + (20 *10) = 216

[vytukas]

If we get pp back would it be nice to know how it will work, before people spend their pp, and later find out they spent them on wrong attributes.

 

As I've heard an idea somewhere, it would be nice if we could have an opportunity to remove perks, especially negative ones without resetting. Most of us have taken neg perks as a trade-offs to get the needed pp, but under new game design this could be needed no longer. In short, if we do a grand redesign, it is fair that players have some freedom in redesigning characters too.

Edit: or introduce perk stones.

 

Once again, changing magic system is a big change. It may suck a lot. It may make EL a much better game. And no one can tell that, because I think its subjective - game is cool if the audience (we, players) likes it and vice versa. And our opinions aren't enough, we may like one thing in theory but dislike in game.

 

Anyway I understand it is not easy for a game developer to make such decisions, so I will respect any.

Edited December 15, 2007 by vytukas

[sadarar]

I am very much for a change that sways the balance away so that there is not such an enormous bias towards a/d training (fastest sustainable experience, raise gc while levelling etc) but I had some reservations about the cap and even more so after reading this.

 

My problem is this - A few people dominate PK atm because they have more PP to spend in the optimum way. This will not change with the cap, the only thing that will change is the optimum configuration. Maybe it will be to take mirror skin/TGitD perks, maybe by spending on will/vitality/nstinct etc, but whatever it is, the top guys will remain the top gus, and they will still hold a large advantage.

 

Now it is suggested we tie in magic power to PP, so not only do the big guys hit harder and are harder to hit, they also get to restore faster. back to square 1, a weaker guy has no chance. Also, they may choose to take up archery, and due to the cap, they have all the free PP they need to lbe deadly with that also.

 

So I think the biggest change from all this is that the big guys will have to rethink their strategy over PP distribution, and there will be very little effect on which people will go into a PK map

[Lexi]

Magic; 33 (16 divided in half)

Rationality; 20 (16 Reasoning, and 24 Will).

 

If I am getting this right...(and I normally am NOT good in math at ALL)

 

16+20=36*10=360 I only have 250 HP WITH undamaged CoL.

You're not getting this right . It would be 16 + (20 *10) = 216

 

Thanks, and sorry, it takes me a while to get it right, math confuses me

[Burfoot]

It really scares me the way you talk about pp's!

I need 20 for perception/charm = instinct dodge arrows/pet

I need 20 for rationality for magic

I need 48 to cor for training

I need 40? to phy for training

I need 16? to vitality for training

I need 7 to human nexus

I need ? to other nexus

added up = 151 oa

I'm not even close to oa 151!! are there alot of players that are? And I can't manu, craft, potion, harvest, (much) ect. PP's are so hard to get now and everything your adding needs precious pp's.

If this hurts a simple fighter/trainer what does it do to all rounders?

Again i have to choose do i get hit by arrows? do i want a pet? do i harvest or manu ect.

People keep saying that there are no classes or limits in EL but i disagree- to be the best in one skill you have to sacrifice on others, because pp's limit you. Maybe a different or easier way to get pp's? Or maybe use something else? maybe just experience levels for nexus? X amt of exp = nexus 1 ect..

lol I don't know if this is a good idea but i know sometimes I get so discouraged when I can't do something in a different skill because of pp's to nexus..and hate to think i have to reset to reapply pp's.

Btw I like new thoughts and wanting to redistribute pp's sounds good to me but again getting pp's is not an easy thing and it seems that i need more and more and more any more neg perks out there? I really want a pet

[Entropy]

It really scares me the way you talk about pp's!

I need 20 for perception/charm = instinct dodge arrows/pet

I need 20 for rationality for magic

I need 48 to cor for training

I need 40? to phy for training

I need 16? to vitality for training

I need 7 to human nexus

I need ? to other nexus

added up = 151 oa

I'm not even close to oa 151!! are there alot of players that are? And I can't manu, craft, potion, harvest, (much) ect. PP's are so hard to get now and everything your adding needs precious pp's.

If this hurts a simple fighter/trainer what does it do to all rounders?

Again i have to choose do i get hit by arrows? do i want a pet? do i harvest or manu ect.

People keep saying that there are no classes or limits in EL but i disagree- to be the best in one skill you have to sacrifice on others, because pp's limit you. Maybe a different or easier way to get pp's? Or maybe use something else? maybe just experience levels for nexus? X amt of exp = nexus 1 ect..

lol I don't know if this is a good idea but i know sometimes I get so discouraged when I can't do something in a different skill because of pp's to nexus..and hate to think i have to reset to reapply pp's.

Btw I like new thoughts and wanting to redistribute pp's sounds good to me but again getting pp's is not an easy thing and it seems that i need more and more and more any more neg perks out there? I really want a pet

 

[hades]

Good ideas will make it better then now.

Edited December 16, 2007 by hades

[Walt-Her]

OOOooooh, this is exactly what i made my alt for \o/

this idea is what i love, i made an alt and it was so lucky it found a nice removal stone and with some help from friends its mag 40 + with a/d 39/43. somehow reasoning wasn't what i was looking for it so now he has w/v 26/24 and some coord to block first hits. md/ld while i fight a phantom with it ( there are some nice places with mana tanks ) make it conquer every time.

 

knowing that this is going to be planned i will be very sceptic when i go to the wraith to spent some pp's with him. i think i will reserve them and in the mean time try to earn a lot of gc to pay the bill for mag lv's. finally a mage will be able to fight a "barberian fighting machine"

 

for the missiles and bow&arrows, nice some new armour and some use for some attributes, this brings some idea's up why caps have to be there. I there wasn't going to be a cap, tons of ppl would have to reset to be able to use pp's where they are needed. That would have been very bad for a lot of them.

 

 

ps. Nice to give us a glimpse of the future, asking our opinion before we are forced to make any decisions.

[Entropy]

As far i see a person with rationality of 20 won't have that much advantage against one with 4 in terms of magic damage if in same level of magic.

 

Assuming the damage is 100, somene with 20 rationality would do 120 damage, while the other guy would do 4 damage.

However, a top mage, with 48 rationality, would do 148 damage. Which is pretty good.

 

 

Excellent idea of course wont do nothing against all top fighters ...between them wont do nothing.. will be good to kill noobs faster instead of 2 hits it can go down to 1 now

 

If you are a top level fighter, you can kill a n00b in 1 hit anyway with the currently existing system. However, you won't be able to kill a mage this way.

[Tauren]

I have to say I like the idea but, like others in this thread, I think the formula needs adjusting a bit. When we have the cap people will have more pp's on phys and will so generally people will have more HP than they have now. With your current suggested formula it's going to take several restores for a lower levelled player to regain all their HP. With 2 seconds between spells and the amount of mana restoration uses I can see it becoming impractical. I have a reasonable magic level and rationality but I'd still only be able to regain 125 HP.

 

I do think it is a good idea though, just that the formula should be made a bit more generous for restoration.

 

EDIT: After reading the post before mine with the other formula (magic*1.5+rationality*5) I realised in that situation I would also gain 125HP per restore, so no change for me.

 

1. I purposely proposed that formula so it isn't a dramatic change to the formula ent gave us (e.g. you can't restore 1k hp at low rationality and magic levels). If you aren't happy with only healing 125 HP / restoration with either formula, this is the time to spend the next few PP's you gather into something other than physique for a change. Get the rationality you need to fully restore your max health and dont forget that simply buiding up your magic level will make a difference too

 

All these complaints I'm hearing that restoration isn't effective enough IMO is due to the fact that the community is so accustomed to full restores with a single spell and placing their PP's all into p/c that they can't handle this big (yet great) adjustment.

 

Keep up the good job ent, keep those ideas coming

[Ozmondius]

In general I like the idea of making things a bit more complex and making the "best" configuration much more complex that just "all PPs in cord".

 

I also agree with other that say the magic level should have more effect on the strength of spells. People who have worked hard on their magic level should get a significant bonus for that work.

 

One other thought I have had (which was stated above) is that if we're going to have a MAJOR change to the attribute/level/cap system, then some sort of a mini-reset (as it's been called) would be appropriate. The removal of all PPs and Perks (except skeptic) so that people can re-configure based on the needs of the NEW system. Some may just restore the same configuration. But others would want to make major changes based on the major changes to the system.

 

1. I agree. This concept, combined with the attribute cap, is a lot to digest quickly. Giving everyone a chance to reconfigure--not just those with uber coord would help and allow people to do what you would like--think and act on that thinking.

 

2. I also agree that, consistent with a cap on the attributes and a nod toward the hard work that has been put to a/d, that magic level should count for more than in the proposed calculation. Otherwise you are honoring attribute over skill--the opposite intent, I think, of the attribute cap.

 

3. An observation: Tying this to rationality makes some sense intuitively. Tying it soley to Reasoning would be fine for PKrs but not so great for a/d trainers since it also increases dexterity, increasing your hitting percentage-- reaction being more important to trainers and both being important to PK'rs.

 

4. A question: If this tie is implemented, would the spell be no fail like it is for 49+ magic level people now, regardless of level magic level?

[Tauren]

It really scares me the way you talk about pp's!

I need 20 for perception/charm = instinct dodge arrows/pet

I need 20 for rationality for magic

I need 48 to cor for training

I need 40? to phy for training

I need 16? to vitality for training

I need 7 to human nexus

I need ? to other nexus

added up = 151 oa

I'm not even close to oa 151!! are there alot of players that are? And I can't manu, craft, potion, harvest, (much) ect. PP's are so hard to get now and everything your adding needs precious pp's.

If this hurts a simple fighter/trainer what does it do to all rounders?

Again i have to choose do i get hit by arrows? do i want a pet? do i harvest or manu ect.

People keep saying that there are no classes or limits in EL but i disagree- to be the best in one skill you have to sacrifice on others, because pp's limit you. Maybe a different or easier way to get pp's? Or maybe use something else? maybe just experience levels for nexus? X amt of exp = nexus 1 ect..

lol I don't know if this is a good idea but i know sometimes I get so discouraged when I can't do something in a different skill because of pp's to nexus..and hate to think i have to reset to reapply pp's.

Btw I like new thoughts and wanting to redistribute pp's sounds good to me but again getting pp's is not an easy thing and it seems that i need more and more and more any more neg perks out there? I really want a pet

Dude when did you think you were expected to have almost all attributes maxed out? Of course you aren't going to be as strong, but were you ever as strong as the top fighters?

 

You have some issues to resolve mate, Ent's rubix cat will solve em all!

[Zamirah]

It really scares me the way you talk about pp's!

I need 20 for perception/charm = instinct dodge arrows/pet

I need 20 for rationality for magic

I need 48 to cor for training

I need 40? to phy for training

I need 16? to vitality for training

I need 7 to human nexus

I need ? to other nexus

added up = 151 oa

I'm not even close to oa 151!! are there alot of players that are? And I can't manu, craft, potion, harvest, (much) ect. PP's are so hard to get now and everything your adding needs precious pp's.

If this hurts a simple fighter/trainer what does it do to all rounders?

Again i have to choose do i get hit by arrows? do i want a pet? do i harvest or manu ect.

People keep saying that there are no classes or limits in EL but i disagree- to be the best in one skill you have to sacrifice on others, because pp's limit you. Maybe a different or easier way to get pp's? Or maybe use something else? maybe just experience levels for nexus? X amt of exp = nexus 1 ect..

lol I don't know if this is a good idea but i know sometimes I get so discouraged when I can't do something in a different skill because of pp's to nexus..and hate to think i have to reset to reapply pp's.

Btw I like new thoughts and wanting to redistribute pp's sounds good to me but again getting pp's is not an easy thing and it seems that i need more and more and more any more neg perks out there? I really want a pet

Dude when did you think you were expected to have almost all attributes maxed out? Of course you aren't going to be as strong, but were you ever as strong as the top fighters?

 

You have some issues to resolve mate, Ent's rubix cat will solve em all!

You forgot, you need 20 will.

[DrtySouth]

Way i see it now,Is that we will have to build chars different,and with getting pp's back will help lots and will be a challange for us all.so ent keep up the good work a game that stays the same gets boring keep up the good work

[Hex]

This is already fun! I've been considering new PP configs and their outcomes. There are still a ton of setups that will produce different advantages and disadvantages for training or pk. Throw in new spell effect formulas (which totally rox imo) and you've got some great mental acrobatics to do.

 

Anyone who feels life will be harder for rounders... It's meant to be. You may not realize that to get the 178 max oa you must get > 2,000,000,000 experience. Here's a thought: Actually plan your character's setup based on 150 PPs, not counting neg perks. Then you won't waste my time reading your posts based on Utopian expectations.

[Ryuu]

I like the idea a lot!

However, I'm not sure that's a good idea to link the magic to rationality or reasoning because as asgnny stated, top fighters would certainly want to put a lot of pick points in reasoning to increase their dexterity. And in this case, they will be better mages as ppl who want to concentrate only on magic.

So, I think that if you want to bind it to something, bind it to will because this attribute seems less important for fighters.

Will is very important to fighters as it adds health and mana, also reaction is much better for training than dexterity (and with high accuracy swords, perhaps even PK).

 

 

Now, in my opinion, having stats to affect the magical abilities to make the mage class build more effective is a good idea. However, I do not think it should affect Restoration, which I believe should continue to "restore" all your HP.

 

Also in regard to Magic Immunity, perhaps there can be a Diminishing Returns modifier on it, so for instance, if you have 90 seconds to go, and you resist a spell it could reduce the remaining time by 15 seconds. Of course, it would require other modifications to help balance it, such as the magic level/rationality affecting the amount of immunity you lose per resist, and/or the amount of DR from casting an offensive spell on someone. (e.g. the power of the spell would cause more or less time to be removed from the MI effect).

 

my 2 cents

Edited December 16, 2007 by Ryuu

[Wizzy]

I like the idea a lot!

However, I'm not sure that's a good idea to link the magic to rationality or reasoning because as asgnny stated, top fighters would certainly want to put a lot of pick points in reasoning to increase their dexterity. And in this case, they will be better mages as ppl who want to concentrate only on magic.

So, I think that if you want to bind it to something, bind it to will because this attribute seems less important for fighters.

Will is very important to fighters as it adds health and mana, also reaction is much better for training than dexterity (and with high accuracy swords, perhaps even PK).

 

 

Now, in my opinion, having stats to affect the magical abilities to make the mage class build more effective is a good idea. However, I do not think it should affect Restoration, which I believe should continue to "restore" all your HP.

 

Also in regard to Magic Immunity, perhaps there can be a Diminishing Returns modifier on it, so for instance, if you have 90 seconds to go, and you resist a spell it could reduce the remaining time by 15 seconds. Of course, it would require other modifications to help balance it, such as the magic level/rationality affecting the amount of immunity you lose per resist, and/or the amount of DR from casting an offensive spell on someone. (e.g. the power of the spell would cause more or less time to be removed from the MI effect).

 

my 2 cents

 

Maybe finaly a use to dust off that old Warlock cloak....Or invest in some bronze pieces to use other then trainning.

 

Just one question Entropy.

 

When the cap is put in place, will we have all our pickpoints spendable? Or just the access PP above 48 that was in coordination?

[Entropy]

Just the points above.

[macca]

i think it's a good idea but maybe add magic defence in somewhere aswell

this could be done by perception say not like a major block against it but say...

 

person casting harm 30 magic + 10 rationality would hit for bout 40-50 if new system was 1-1.5 extra damage

 

then if the defending person was 30 magic and 10 perception he defend about 20 (sorry cant be to bothered with calculations atm kinda tired)

making the total damage 20-30 this would give us a way of defending the damage kinda like toughness does

 

anything would be if this does come in it's going to very costly for mid lvl players to restore at about 60-100 per time so maybe drop the ess needed for some spells

 

another problem would be for some1 who wants to become a full time mage of even power to a fighter. as they will be paying 3-4x the amount just to train and then cast in the long run as magic takes alot longer to lvl.

 

but i do look forward to it as it might add another great new twist to pk and gameplay in general might even go for full time mage myself

[Ryuu]

i think it's a good idea but maybe add magic defence in somewhere aswell

this could be done by perception say not like a major block against it but say...

 

person casting harm 30 magic + 10 rationality would hit for bout 40-50 if new system was 1-1.5 extra damage

 

then if the defending person was 30 magic and 10 perception he defend about 20 (sorry cant be to bothered with calculations atm kinda tired)

making the total damage 20-30 this would give us a way of defending the damage kinda like toughness does

 

anything would be if this does come in it's going to very costly for mid lvl players to restore at about 60-100 per time so maybe drop the ess needed for some spells

 

another problem would be for some1 who wants to become a full time mage of even power to a fighter. as they will be paying 3-4x the amount just to train and then cast in the long run as magic takes alot longer to lvl.

 

but i do look forward to it as it might add another great new twist to pk and gameplay in general might even go for full time mage myself

There are already items that give magic resistences ingame, which are basically like a magic defense. It would be nice if higher magic levels provided more magic def though. And about my idea before, I think there could be difficulties with mana drain for instance, where your (20) mana would be used to cast the spell and nothing would be drained... <Edit>

Edited December 16, 2007 by Ryuu

[macca]

At anyrate, if mages are to be useful, there needs to be a solution for the Magic Immunity spell, but Ent probably already has an idea for that.

 

Another spell could be to remove the magic immunity, which would also be dependent on your rationality and magic level (as well as the rationality and magic level of the target).

 

he;s got ideas

Edited December 16, 2007 by macca

[Ryuu]

At anyrate, if mages are to be useful, there needs to be a solution for the Magic Immunity spell, but Ent probably already has an idea for that.

 

Another spell could be to remove the magic immunity, which would also be dependent on your rationality and magic level (as well as the rationality and magic level of the target).

 

he;s got ideas

I need to read slower lol