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Entropy

Attributes cap for the main server

Attribute caps  

410 members have voted

  1. 1. Cap each attribute at 48

    • Yes!
      252
    • OMG WTF no way!11!!
      157


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I voted yes because I think that it will give a more use of all the attributes and not only p/c.

 

Anyway, I find very sad to see that it's always the same thing when you ask ppl opinion. Each time, people think only about themselves and not about the game... Honestly, I wonder why you bother asking? ;)

 

I'll say the same thing than Manderijn and it was also what I said the last time there was a similar poll:

It's your game Ent, do whatever you think it's the best for it! And keep up the good work! :D

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QUOTE(kylass @ Dec 13 2007, 01:02 PM)

 

it does IMO seem a little less drastic than halting players in certain elements of their developement

 

 

 

 

Just a general question and not a flame or argument in any way..

 

How many non pkers/fighters have got attributes over the proposed cap limit ? just being nosey

 

 

 

--------------------

 

 

 

I can only speak personally and I have not yet exeeded the limit I am not a pker but do train on monsters would have hoped to have exeeded the proposed coord level within the next 2-3 months and im under no illusion of being a top player im more mid range or lower i guess

Edited by kylass

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Personaly, as I prviously stated, With an overall cap at 48, I think it will help bring forth a few different types of fighters. The Mage/Summoning type will become very usefull to have on your side. Also with archery coming soon, It will make those type of fighters have a chance to build there charater more effetively then now. Most people that have voted no have stated the reason is they like the freedom we currently have with no cap. This freedom is an illusion. The only way to currently compete is to put every sigle pickpoint you can muster on Cooridination. This is not freedom. This is slavery to Cooridination. There are so many times I would like to have a little more Mana. But I will not sacrifice those 2 percious pick points on Vitality at the moment. And trust me, I would say the harverters/mixers should not suffer to badly. I made alchemy 91 and I started in June 2007.

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Voted YES. I was thinking 'yes' at first, read and slept, and I'm thinking even more 'yes' now.

 

'If it ain't broken, don't fix it':

The caps in the PK server will work very well, including the 100 a/d cap. the PK server benefits from me having a lot more experience now than I had 4 years ago, when the exp/attribute system was made.

It is broken, understandable as it might be, there is a flaw in the design here, which creates imbalance. Freedom to develop your char like you want is one thing, but the current situation takes it too far. It is limiting in itself, because if you do anything else than neg out and pump those few attributes, you're dead meat in PK.

 

'But I play this game because it has no caps'

It has, at 178 (or 179? I keep forgetting), plus the amount of experience needed at high levels is some sort of natural cap in itself (except for hydro for nexus + removal stones).

 

'But I'm a harvester, my EMU!'

I wonder how many non-fighters actually have the EMU that the proposed cap would limit to. I know I don't, 'only 840'. If you're just AFK harvesting, lower EMU might be annoying. But that reminds me of a quote once here: "to be able to go afk is not a key element to this game" (by Derin). And seriously, 840 carry capacity almost always works well enough for me, and that's not the max!

 

'But I'm a mixer, I don't benefit from it!'

No, I don't think mixers will really benefit. So what's the problem? Looking at myself, I don't think it will bother them either. I really don't get why people that will not or hardly be affected are against a fix (yes, I say 'fix' instead of 'change') that is an improvement for another part of the community.

 

I'm mostly a mixer, would lose 40 EMU (poor me! Oh no, wait, I'm far from phys 48, so can always choose to increase that then, if the EMU would be my priority). But I can't find any other disadvantages. When I'm in the mood I do some fighting as well, and I've been saving PPs in the desperate hope that one day I might be able to spend them on coord for yetis. With the proposed cap, I don't have to anymore! \o/. Doesn't mean I can reach the goal like I wanted to, but that's a common 'problem' then :). As far as I know, the strongest monsters were never meant to be killed alone really anyway. So I can spend them otherwise, including in ways that would benefit me as mixer if I choose to (like more will/reasoning for exp). Which leads me to:

 

'Less diversity!'

At first I thought that might be a problem. But after thinking a bit: even with the max overall plus all negative perks, nobody could reach the maximum proposed caps (not taking PPs from hydro/removals into account, of which you'd still need a lot). So it still comes down to choices. If this happens, I'll have 18 PPs to spend, don't have to worry about coordination anymore and I still don't know how to spend them! All attributes influence fighters, more or less, in one way or another. So it's still a matter of priorities, between those and maybe perks. A pure fighter still won't have PPs free for the mixers' nexus, because they can't optimise their fighting attributes.

 

A pure mixer/harvester has no use for some of the attributes that I can think of (vitality, instinct). But, what pure mixer/harvester gets enough PPs to max out the attributes that he can use?

 

'But it might ruin the PK server if it's the same here!'

Sorry, but I really think this is a funny one. Sounds to me like 'but if things get better here, there might be no need for a PK server'. I'd say that would be a good thing more than a bad thing? A reason why the cap was proposed there, is because the lack of it is a problem here! Plus of course the existence of caps isn't exactly the only difference between main and PK server :D

 

and with 960 emu cant do stuff like alch or craft because it would take a long time to achieve something with such a low emu.

Looks at her siggy and can't help but only laugh :P

 

--------------

 

Maybe a decision like this would require other adjustments, like more/other spawns. But I'm not worried about that. Spawns get changed more often when the need is there. More yeti spawns have come when there was a lack of those, if they'd hardly get used anymore, maybe they could be replaced by other - trainable - creatures. Especially the yeti spawns on single combat maps now ;). But that is an easy fix, detail compared to the complete overhaul of the system and major design improvement that the proposed change would mean.

 

:looks at her pickpoints and really hopes this will happen no matter what Ent says now :D

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It will be good if u create spell like restore but for mana - "mana restoration"

 

I think with 48 Vitality 48 Will You will have enough mana :D

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@DogBreath

Your mage suggestion wont fix the current PK situation, i assure you.

Since i'm 100's a/d with d.chim p/c and have regularly been in combat with 130+ a/d yeti trainers, i think i'm more likely to be able to see what will and what wont fix the situation than you, or many other people who've speculated about PK but have hardly stepped foot on PK maps.

 

@Kylass

Only being able to engage people of similar combat level to yourself has been suggested and rejected many times before. Not gonna happen.

 

As for yours and so many other mixers/harvesters complaint; "but my mass EMU that i plan to some day have"... Well, hows about the 60 attribute limit then? i know a certain all-rounder who's negged out badly on a "preparation reset" and has been since as long as i can remember and they still have only just days ago cracked the 1000 emu mark.

 

60/60 p/c is 1200 emu. No person who never or very rarely a/d trains is ever gonna get there anyways... maybe some rare negged out case... and no one with a bunch of nexuses will get there, thats for sure.

 

EDIT2: Sorry Kylass just saw that you are a fighter and i checked you ranks... still i stand by my statement that breaking the 1200 emu mark is extremely hard for anyone that does not setup their attributes with PK as the main goal (i.e. lots of negs, very few nexus)

 

So if you're a mixer who disagrees with the 48 cap, but would be happy with the 60 cap, rather than speculating on what you think will fix a situation that you have little to no experience with (high level PK), hows about you just post requesting the cap be 60 :)

 

If you think 60 isn't enough because you plan to someday, with no a/d training, have 1200+ emu... you're just delusional.

 

...ok i'm done repeating myself and others now i think.

 

EDIT:

All hail Molime for the pr0ness of her post! :icon13:

Edited by Korrode

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60/60 p/c is 1200 emu. No person who never or very rarely a/d trains is ever gonna get there anyways... maybe some rare negged out case... and no one with a bunch of nexuses will get there, thats for sure.

Believe me, it can be done with perks, even with about 20 nexuses :icon13:. But its not a case.

Ent said about mule pets, and for me its great solution for harvesters.

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i voted yes ... would be great overall as many posted dont wanna repeat all the atributes and stuff

 

i didnt read all 12 pages of this topic just the first 2 and last 2 so i dont know if any 1 suggested this

 

make a seperate atribute tht makes only ur emu higher.

 

~SenZ

 

p.s. havnt been on couse my sister broke my cpu =/

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@Korushiku

Who did it?

 

EDIT:

Oh, i do have another solution to the PK problem, but it's barely worth mentioning as i'm confident no one will go for it... and it requires some work, including client-side changes:

 

Swap Coordination's Might and Instinct's Charm.

 

(i.e.: Coord will give dex/react/charm

and Instinct will give react/perception/might).

 

If this was to be done, everyone would have to be set back to 4 for all attributes and get all their pp's back to re-distribute them, as the entire way character would be built would change.

 

Now, before anyone comments on this, try to think past the fact that you'll have to learn a whole new way of building your char and really think about what this would achieve.

I believe this could fix the current PK situation without there having to be a cap.

 

(my hopes of this happening are low... very low... see down that well? lower than that.)

Edited by Korrode

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There is a reason why I post my thoughts and concerns before I vote ("like a n00b").

 

After reading (every post on this page), I am starting to see the cap can't be too bad. EbuL mixers make me feel better too, opening my eyes that it is possible to achieve high levels with under a 48 cap.

 

After some deep thought, I think I will vote yes... but maybe raise the cap to 60, just the same. :icon13:

 

Also, I keep forgetting, we should trust Entropy's decisions either way, if it's THAT bad on the game, we all know he'll improve it. We just don't seem to have faith in him..

 

Forgive me for being a "selfish" mixer, I was only concerned about (when I reached the cap) what could a mixer do?

 

Lets remember to have fun, changes CAN be fun, whether it's a positive or a negative effect.

 

I do believe it should be tested first though. Also as a couple have stated, the votes would have probably been a bit different if the supposed pros/cons were all stated (like the mule pet Entropy mentions).

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Personally i think it is a good idea to put an atribute limit, and i voted YES, but i know some guildies will leave the game just for this cap, and im sure many players will leave it too :icon13:

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Personally i think it is a good idea to put an atribute limit, and i voted YES, but i know some guildies will leave the game just for this cap, and im sure many players will leave it too :icon13:

Tell your friends and guildies to give it a chance. It wont hurt. :)

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Personally i think it is a good idea to put an atribute limit, and i voted YES, but i know some guildies will leave the game just for this cap, and im sure many players will leave it too :icon13:

Many players who have quit will return as well.

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Personally i think it is a good idea to put an atribute limit, and i voted YES, but i know some guildies will leave the game just for this cap, and im sure many players will leave it too :icon13:

Many players who have quit will return as well.

 

Exactly 160 for vs 100 against, seems worth a try to me, only chaning cap to 48 wont solve it though, has to more tweaking.

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Ok I voted no I reset and had plans on how to get high cord to compete with all these others with god like coord.

 

I was wrong

 

I agree this is a needed thing to make the playing feld more even

Puts the lvl's into play more then the atributes!!!

 

 

I no it is to late for me to vote Yes but to all that have not voted I would have to ask

think about it!!! It makes good sence

 

vote Yes

 

Radu I aploigize for voting No

 

I think 48/48 would be fine for a cap

Im only 26/40 now and I can train all the way up to forest chims right now. there a bit tuff but makes it more fun.

 

As for mixing I do pots and alch alot 67 pot lvl 79 alch I run 640 emu right now and I have no problems!!

 

so please everyone calm down and just think about it

 

FireBalls

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Exactly 160 for vs 100 against, seems worth a try to me, only chaning cap to 48 wont solve it though, has to more tweaking.

Because less than 10% of playerbase are a decisive majority nowadays? Seriously, these "important" polls should be open longer before claims are made that a decision has been reached.

On topic, I think a cap would probably be good, I'd applaud the race specific stuff mentioned earlier and perhaps the cap could be (cross?) attribute specific. It's going to be a lot of work, might as well go all the way :icon13:

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Personally i think it is a good idea to put an atribute limit, and i voted YES, but i know some guildies will leave the game just for this cap, and im sure many players will leave it too :icon13:

Many players who have quit will return as well.

 

Exactly 160 for vs 100 against, seems worth a try to me, only chaning cap to 48 wont solve it though, has to more tweaking.

 

Think of how many players left because of cooldown, or even *gasp* harvesting events!

 

Because this game is still in the making, I think its a great privilege to be able vote for major changes. Let alone, be heard. I've learned to pretty much agree with any suggest radu makes, as he puts quite a bit of thought into it.

 

I'm all in for this idea, even though it WILL be very different, just think about how cooldown worked out...

 

~kGn

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Personally i think it is a good idea to put an atribute limit, and i voted YES, but i know some guildies will leave the game just for this cap, and im sure many players will leave it too :)

Many players who have quit will return as well.

 

Exactly 160 for vs 100 against, seems worth a try to me, only chaning cap to 48 wont solve it though, has to more tweaking.

 

Think of how many players left because of cooldown, or even *gasp* harvesting events!

 

Because this game is still in the making, I think its a great privilege to be able vote for major changes. Let alone, be heard. I've learned to pretty much agree with any suggest radu makes, as he puts quite a bit of thought into it.

 

I'm all in for this idea, even though it WILL be very different, just think about how cooldown worked out...

 

~kGn

 

People will always vote no since having changes, demands adapting. People who left cause of harvest events... are kinda retarded :icon13: , maybe nexus removals not though.

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Ok so some ppl are starting to say with a 170 to 110 vtoe spread we should go ahead with this and do it, however think that if this happens 2/5 of the players are against it and in a situation like this is 3/5 for it really enough to carry though, maybe 80% of the players agreeing with it would, but i think to many ppl are still against it as it is now, to go throught with the cap.

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Ok so some ppl are starting to say with a 170 to 110 vtoe spread we should go ahead with this and do it, however think that if this happens 2/5 of the players are against it and in a situation like this is 3/5 for it really enough to carry though, maybe 80% of the players agreeing with it would, but i think to many ppl are still against it as it is now, to go throught with the cap.

I think the results would be more resoundingly positive if a new poll were created after players have a chance to read through here.

Option 1) In favor of an attribute cap, with details to be worked out (possibly voted on?) later, under separate cover.

Option 2) Against an attribute cap alltogether.

 

I think there are many people fundamentally in favor of a cap voting "no" because the choices are "48 only" and "no", rather than a more open first option. Maybe we can set a date where this thread will be ended, and a replacement poll added?

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Voted OMG WTF, it's not much left for me to do ingame with that low cap, and I like this game.

It has been a lot of changes in the time I have been played, and I have never complained on any of them. It's mostly been smal adjustments in how to play. But with a cap that low I'm not sure what to do.

With the cap a bit higher I think I might ind a way.

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Ok so some ppl are starting to say with a 170 to 110 vtoe spread we should go ahead with this and do it, however think that if this happens 2/5 of the players are against it and in a situation like this is 3/5 for it really enough to carry though, maybe 80% of the players agreeing with it would, but i think to many ppl are still against it as it is now, to go throught with the cap.

Other major changes have passed with less majority (such as cooldown). And also I agree with asgnny that most of the people who voted no did so because they disagreed with '48' as a cap, not the idea of capping attributes in general.

 

 

Edit:

 

Voted OMG WTF, it's not much left for me to do ingame with that low cap, and I like this game.

It has been a lot of changes in the time I have been played, and I have never complained on any of them. It's mostly been smal adjustments in how to play. But with a cap that low I'm not sure what to do.

With the cap a bit higher I think I might ind a way.

You know you can raise other attributes than just p/c, right? There would still be plenty to do by increasing the other attributes, not to mention that the skills *aren't* capped.

Edited by Ryuu

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I think after reading through this thread I am still voting YES, I think it will make the game more fun. 48 may be a little low but I can adjust to it.

 

As to what asgnny said about the new poll, I think we should try it, I know a few people that voted NO but have changed their minds.

 

Zamolxes

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