Attributes cap for the main server

[Deified]

(and yes I am an expert on MMOs, having played many, many of them and watched some die and others flourish. Never underestimate the players of your game.)

 

Aww, those that mean that you will leave if I make the changes?

 

Why? I agreed with the changes. Learn to read before you try to make a smartass reply lol

 

Oh dear.

[Entropy]

So why not go with the majority here ? Ent likes the idea and has the backing of over 60% of the voters (so far) alot more % than the nmt poll (which he honoured the result of)

 

The NMT was a minor adjustment (well, not VERY minor, but wouldn't have changed the whole way you play the game). This is a more significant change, affecting everything, from PKing to the economy, and good for everyone.

 

Since this is good for everyone, I expected more support. If I don't get the support I was expecting, why do it anyway? There are always alternatives for me, it's not like doing (or not doing) this would impact my life in any way. It all started as an idea from some players, who expressed their wish to see this implemented in the main server as well. It wasn't even my original idea to begin with

 

Why? I agreed with the changes. Learn to read before you try to make a smartass reply lol

 

Oh dear.

 

We are so hostile lately, aren't we?

[TirunCollimdus]

its true, the majority who have voted are saying they think its a good idea Entropy

 

Dont let tirums amazing sophomore reading and vocabulary skills stop you from trying to make things better

 

Molime has it hands down, the majority of experieced players are saying yes, in fact, the majority is saying yes , new or old ....

 

You could not even spell my name right so I will assume you have not been reading my posts except for that one. My opinion is that 48 is too low. I think the pets would make that a yes since I could still manage my harvest reset and I would not loose out on all of the work I put in on my harvest reset. My objections for a 48 cap are mostly based on the problems this will cause with spawns but as has been said those could be fixed. I have been specifically fighting to get any cap put in over a change to the restoration spell.

 

I fail to see why this topic requires anything higher than a 51% majority as well. NMT as has been pointed out was settled with that slim margin of victory. The PK server had more choices and got more support. I don't see how we should be held to the same level of support with fewer choices. I think it is unreal that 60% of the players would not get what they want. If I was in the 60% voting yes I would be mad as hell. Why can 40% of the voters tell 60% what they can and cannot have. I think it is outrageous to tell the clear winners of this poll that they don't get to win because they did not win by enough. Especially with past voting history.

 

Even if the cap was 48 and there were no pets on the way and I was part of the minority in not wanting it I would still get pissed at Entropy not putting the cap in. The community as a whole is showing by a large margin that they want a cap. I think it is wrong to turn your back on the people supporting you just because you wanted more support. I think not putting in the cap is just wrong no matter what reason you have considering the support it has gotten.

 

TirunCollimdus

[Deified]

This should be decided by a majority vote over a week. By then anyone who hasn't voted obviously didn't care enough to come and do so, even if it's only 1 vote either way that should be the one you go for.

 

EDIT: I've always been hostile, never hidden the fact I don't like you or your attitude, as someone who runs a game I expected it to be more, I was sadly disappointed. You and I both know the things which you've done. That you choose to hide them merely convinces me further of my, and many others, viewpoint.

 

However I try not to let this cloud my decisions on what would be good for the game, such as this. I agree with your idea and think it will benefit the game.

Edited December 13, 2007 by Deified

[Ateh]

never assume anything tirum

[TirunCollimdus]

I am still for the cap too.

 

I want to say to all those "omfg no change" people. Why does it matter if it

appears the new plan is to scrap the main server for another server using the pk servers system.

Yeah great, you got your status quo and a dead server, way to go.

 

If a developer is stuck because no on will allow him to change anything, he rather just scrap it and start

over and all time in our chars goes pfft.

 

I am tired of the pages of books on the pros and cons. Just cap it like it should have been and those

that will leave, will leave.

 

 

In case you missed it the no people did not cause the cap to not go in. They lost the vote. The poll did not say that the no votes will count for more than the yes votes when it was posted. Don't blame us for the cap not being implemented. There are very few if any people in my opinion who would continue to complain after the cap was put in. No one is stopping Entropy from doing anything. He asked for support for this change and he got it. I read every single post and I remember maybe 3 people saying that they would quit. There is no huge outcry against this idea. Most of the no votes are people who wanted a higher cap but like the idea of a cap. Even so we wind up with those votes counting more than they yes votes.

 

That is not the fault of the people who voted no.

 

TirunCollimdus

 

PS If Entropy does not want to do the work required for the cap here because only 60% voted yes then so be it. Everyone who wants a cap will just have to wait for the new server to get it. I can live with it either way but I would prefer to have a cap and pets then no cap at all. I just hope Entropy will decide to actually do it. The new servers are farther away than the pets so I would rather have the cap. It means being screwed over on my harvest reset until I can get a pet but that is a price I am willing to pay.

Edited December 13, 2007 by TirunCollimdus

[Evalin]

I am kinda sick of all the replies with "there should be no end to the game". This cap isn't creating an end to the game, there still is no cap to the levels you can gain. You just won't be able to gain over 960 emu without help from some item or system yet to be implemented. That's hardly ending the game for you.

 

Either way, if ent wants a 70% majority to make the change, I guess I'm done debating it. Hrm, what should I do with my next few oa's, right, coord it is. Peace.

[TirunCollimdus]

If a developer is stuck because no on will allow him to change anything, he rather just scrap it and start

over and all time in our chars goes pfft.

 

I am tired of the pages of books on the pros and cons. Just cap it like it should have been and those

that will leave, will leave.

 

That's the idea.

It's not like I will stop updating the main server, but when newer servers will be available, I can see most of the people, and especially newbies, going there. In fact, I plan to make the new servers as the "default" server.

But this is long term stuff, about 1 year or more.

 

Count me in. Cap of 48 or whatever I will be on the new server when it comes in and I hope we have pets there too if they don't get put in here. Pets may be a money sink but they will be useful and just plain cool. I had thought from what you said earlier that you were just abandoning this server completely and immediately and I am very happy this is not the case.

 

TirunCollimdus

[molime]

40% is still a lot of people. I was expecting something around 80% to be for it, and I was willing to do it even if 70% were pro this idea.

 

60 % is more a lot of people than 40 %

 

Then what about going with asgnny's suggestion, and try a 2nd poll now AFTER people have read? There already have been people who said they voted no, but would vote yes now. Most likely you'd come way closer. And if you'd ask 100 older, experienced players directly, I bet you'd get close to that 80 %, at least.

 

There have been no-votes by new players who (no offense) have no idea yet of the effort it takes to get to a high level, at which you'd actually notice the caps - let alone what effect the current situation has. They just have some dream about 'later when I grow up', but might not even be here anymore then, because not everyone stays for years.

 

There have been no-votes by people who are afraid for a 'game over' when they have it all - still not realizing that's not possible, at least since there already IS a max oa, so you can never have enough pickpoints to maximise it all.

 

There have been no-votes by people who just voted no because for them personally it has no advantages (although no disadvantages either).

 

There have been no-votes by people who've already changed their minds and would vote yes now.

 

How many people have said they voted yes but changed their minds, or voted yes with unrealistic arguments?

 

While I think this would be good for the main server, I think not implementing those changes will only cause more people that want a nice system to come on the Pk server, where the fun will be, which is one of my goals.

Well it looks like most people still want to have fun on main as well...

 

Since this is good for everyone, I expected more support. If I don't get the support I was expecting, why do it anyway?

Because then at least you get more support than if you don't, even if it's less than you expected .

[Entropy]

EDIT: I've always been hostile, never hidden the fact I don't like you or your attitude, as someone who runs a game I expected it to be more, I was sadly disappointed. You and I both know the things which you've done. That you choose to hide them merely convinces me further of my, and many others, viewpoint.

 

Bye bye.

[SL7yz0r]

Since this is good for everyone, I expected more support. If I don't get the support I was expecting, why do it anyway?

 

Because then at least you get more support than if you don't, even if it's less than you expected .

 

Keep in mind, radu would be spending his time to program this, with only 60% support.

 

Not worth it to have other 40% unhappy and wine and complain and threaten to leave game,

why should he have to deal with this?

Edited December 13, 2007 by SL7yz0r

[TirunCollimdus]

I am still for the cap too.

 

I want to say to all those "omfg no change" people. Why does it matter if it

appears the new plan is to scrap the main server for another server using the pk servers system.

Yeah great, you got your status quo and a dead server, way to go.

 

If a developer is stuck because no on will allow him to change anything, he rather just scrap it and start

over and all time in our chars goes pfft.

 

I am tired of the pages of books on the pros and cons. Just cap it like it should have been and those

that will leave, will leave.

 

 

In case you missed it the no people did not cause the cap to not go in. They lost the vote. The poll did not say that the no votes will count for more than the yes votes when it was posted. Don't blame us for the cap not being implemented. There are very few if any people in my opinion who would continue to complain after the cap was put in. No one is stopping Entropy from doing anything. He asked for support for this change and he got it. I read every single post and I remember maybe 3 people saying that they would quit. There is no huge outcry against this idea. Most of the no votes are people who wanted a higher cap but like the idea of a cap. Even so we wind up with those votes counting more than they yes votes.

 

That is not the fault of the people who voted no.

 

Tirun "The WindBag" Collimdus

 

You have 21* posts on this thread. No one reads them. They glaze over and skip them.

When you reply to this it will be 22* posts people ignore.

 

In case you missed it Entropy wanted something closer to a full majority.

 

[Edit: you managed to post while I did uping the count by one]

 

 

I am done with the whole flaming thing and fighting thing rob. My posts are read and quoted I might add so you are obviously just flaming. My point was that no one told anyone that the no votes would be more important than the yes votes. You must have glazed over that. Entropy wanting closer to a full majority is not the fault of the players who voted no. You placed the fault of the cap not getting put in on the people who lost the vote. That was unfair. That is why I posted. I may not want to fight or flame but I am not going to stop defending myself when I get attacked. I just won't make any attacks of my own.

 

Tiruncollimdus

[Lexi]

Since this is good for everyone, I expected more support. If I don't get the support I was expecting, why do it anyway?

 

Because then at least you get more support than if you don't, even if it's less than you expected .

 

Keep in mind, radu would be spending his time to program this, with only 60% support.

 

Not worth it to have other 40% unhappy and wine and complain and threaten to leave game,

why should he have to deal with this?

 

I see the point here, but I don't see people leaving over it Least not many....

[conavar]

I wont quote Molimes full post but she has it spot on..

 

and to add to her post . a few people voted no because they are maybe new to the game and dont understand the mechanics.... Ive heard a few comments in channels like " cap will suck .. I wont be able to train cycs and they will be hard "

 

edit: I dont know if Ent already does.. but maybe a good idea in future , before posting a poll is to ask the Mods/Dev for there views about what the poll should consist of (question wise), think we all trust the mods/devs to know there way around the game to give Ent a fair view point

Edited December 14, 2007 by conavar

[Fourier]

I wont quote Molimes full post but she has it spot on..

 

and to add to her post . a few people voted no because they are maybe new to the game and dont understand the mechanics.... Ive heard a few comments in channels like " cap will suck .. I wont be able to train cycs and they will be hard "

 

imho Con and Molime are right. I think I will get hit by the cap, in fact I want to get hit by the cap! I hope you will implement this on the main server s, it passes the filibuster rules.

 

4

Edited December 14, 2007 by Fourier

[macca]

ok i may aswell add my veiw for this and before most ask i know i'm using a fairly new char but i have played for some time ........

 

i honestly think a cap for main server at say 60 pp per attribute would be good for those that like huge phys/cord it must hurt but honestly there is no need for such a big p/c till yeti losing the pp from there will also open up other attributes for you making your chars more well rounded eg raising vit you get a good amount of eth meaning longer pk battles raising will you get eth hp and rationality which gives more exp as every1 should know .....

 

the ppl i can see struggling thanx to this would be harvesters but to be honest i am still yet to find a harvester by career in el with a higher emu than 1k ......maybe adding might to another attribute aswell might help keep these sort of ppls minds at bay

[LIGHTspeed]

...Hrm, what should I do with my next few oa's, right, coord it is. Peace.

 

Just because there aren't caps doesn't mean you HAVE to put it on Coord.

Edited December 14, 2007 by LIGHTspeed

[Wizzy]

...Hrm, what should I do with my next few oa's, right, coord it is. Peace.

 

Just because there aren't caps doesn't mean you HAVE to put it on Coord.

 

If you want to stand toe to toe with the big guys, You need every bit of C you can...Less then 120 Cooridination and your wasting your time trying to pk. as it is now

[korrode]

With that much Physique, you'd be slaughtering something, and the EXP would still be rotten for training.

So dont take 48 phys for your training.

the cap should be in the 80's,

Nope. 80/80 p/c is still to unachievable for most. There'd still be people with 80 Might. It's far too much for a more level PK field.

Lol meybe ill vote yes if some1 will remove my all neg perks... cuz after this almost all ppl who have neg perks will take reset

Um... why? ...i wouldn't remove my neg perks... i need those pp's for reasoning and vit.

But if a cap absolutely positively MUST be put in place to 'fix' <cough cough> a 'problem' for the Pk'rs, how about just capping how much *Coordination* you can take?

The actual problem is with Might. So the cap needs to be on both Phys and Coord at least.

Again we have a lower level a/d'er speculating about high level PK.

...oh and Barandur, dont lump any person who PK's in the same stereotypical basket.

 

 

@Everyone who says with a 48 cap they will "beat" or "clock" or "finish" the game:

There's more attributes that will enhance any skill than phys and coord, especially for fighters.

 

 

@Entropy

Ent... from what you're saying you plan making a 2nd non-pk server in the future and will eventually make it the default server... So you've already decided that the cap is coming on the default server.

 

Many people want to change their vote either by reading the reasoning of those for the cap or since they read about the possibility of Mule Pets

 

Some of the oldest and most experienced players are for this.

 

Every moderator i've seen post is for this (not that their voice on this kind of thing is greater than anyone elses, but they are all long time experienced players with the games best interests at heart).

 

Many top 10 ranked Fighters and Mixers alike are for this.

 

A good portion of the No votes are relative newbs with dreams of grandeur that they dont realise are near unachievable anyway.

 

More top 50 a/d'ers are for this than against it (based on the posts in this thread) and they are the people it is going to have the biggest impact on.

 

60% is a clear majority.

 

 

...I'm kinda amazed that you're not implementing it.

Please re-consider

[TessAnna]

I voted yes when first asked to vote. Now I have taken the time to read "most" of the posts and gloss over many of the long self important never go anywhere self repeating ones. I saw here and there that people who voted no might vote yes and people who voted yes might vote no if able to change their vote. Lol, thats funny!

 

My vote would still be yes and the ones who would switch, would probably even each other out.

 

Entropy, I do have a dumb blonde airhead, know nothing about programming question though, if you could please answer it for me. IF someone is able to play night and day and reach full cap on all things that require the cap, what happens then? Not that I will ever be able to do that (sighs with envy) am just curious as to what happens to their next OA point and all nexus are the highest required in game.

 

Thanks for the humorous posts guys (I glossed over the dull and degrading ones).

[korrode]

OA capped at 178 (or 179, cant remember)... so it's impossible Tess

Edited December 14, 2007 by Korrode

[Wizzy]

OA capped at 178 (or 179, cant remember)... so it's impossible Tess

Not impossible. Will take many many hydro bars/nexus removal stones. Would take a severly dedicated player. (and a wealthy one)

[extrapolation]

ive not voted in this, because i find the options too restrictive (wanted to read the thread first, and now i see so many alternatives) but i know i wouldnt vote "omg no way" in another poll

 

the only problem i see is that it will be impossible to get massive a/d levels when your attributes wont let you move to the next monster, so people who made massive a/d under the old pickpoints system have an unfair advantage over the rest of us.

 

whether its rationailty linked to magic or attribute caps on PK server, i will welcome the changes. we'll see even less of the uber coord build that the a/d caps hope to reduce

 

and no changes would affect me personally on main, harvesting cotton afk with my 840 EMU while i play on PK server

[Entropy]

Entropy, I do have a dumb blonde airhead, know nothing about programming question though, if you could please answer it for me. IF someone is able to play night and day and reach full cap on all things that require the cap, what happens then? Not that I will ever be able to do that (sighs with envy) am just curious as to what happens to their next OA point and all nexus are the highest required in game.

 

Assuming someone can get over 100 PPs by nexus removal stone, and gather 5K hydro bars, such a person could do the following things:

1. Get positive perks.

2. Get nexuses so that they can build anything.

3. Visit the outside world and look how much things changed since they started playing non stop.

[TessAnna]

LOL at #3, wonder how many need to follow that little piece of advice...