Determining Safe Areas

[Aislinn]

Safe areas has little/nothing to do with going afk. It's to provide suppliers a safer place to mix goods and perform trades.

I don't think that's the point of a pk server.

[bkc56]

I don't think that's the point of a pk server.

Depends on your point of view. As a potential supplier I'm interested in how the market and relationship will develop between the PKers and the suppliers. I think it will be a cool experiment. But if it's to one-sided (toward the PK aspects) then the suppliers won't be able to do much. One can't even get to mixing HEs if you're getting killed on harvest runs, mixing and trying to trade.

 

I figure there are two basic ways this can go. Either an interesting balance develops between the two communities (PKers and suppliers), or the suppliers get tired of not being able to progress and leave and the PKers instead get all their supplies and gear from NPCs (sell flowers, buy stuff, PK till out, repeat).

 

I think a developing market between the classes would be more fun, but picking flowers is a lot less work than trying to level skills to make stuff.

[Requiem]

But if it's to one-sided (toward the PK aspects)

i get the point of your post, but how can you possibly argue something is one-sided towards PKers when its a PK Server . the point of it is to fix the apparently 'dead' pk in EL, no one has complained that "mixings dead, MM/dp/etc.. sto is empty". if you want to mix in peace, hire a guard...be friends with the pr0 pkers...or beam...

Edited October 16, 2007 by 1st Warrior

[bkc56]

i get the point of your post, but how can you possible complain something is one-sided towards PKers when its a PK Server . the point of it is to fix the apparently 'dead' pk in EL, no one has complained that "mixings dead, MM/dp/etc.. sto is empty". if you want to mix in peace, hire a guard...be friends with the pr0 pkers...or beam...

I must disagree. No one is complaining and you don't seem to have gotten the point of my post.

 

But that's OK.

 

We'll see what Entropy decides about safe-zones (some, few, none) and the resulting market and economy will develop as it will. The PKers will be fine either way. They'll either buy from players (some of whom will simply be their own alts) or from the NPCs. Either way they'll get their equipment and supplies and can PK to their heart's content.

Edited October 15, 2007 by bkc56

[Requiem]

ok, well I'll change 'complain' to 'argue'...wrong word

[The_Piper]

The Docks on C1:

 

Lakeside 647,195 - 741,133

 

Desert Pines 342,371 - 379,311

 

VotD 60,187 - 80,168

 

TG 126,309 - 142,280

 

GP 298,136 - 337,114

 

Piper

[Chryzopraz]

I'm again too late.

But my coords are a little different. I have taken in account only "real docks" and boats.

So:

WS docks:

[695,134]-[726,183] - Trik excluded!

Desert Pines:

[348,312]-[377,365]

VOTD - this one is difficult, since the docs are not orthogonal

[63,160]-[75,187]

Portland docks are within city walls

Grubani has no real docks. Besides it is a dangerous map, so why the boat itself should be safe? You can meet a fluff there

 

C2

Port Anitora dock:

[269,178]-[293,200]

 

Idaloran docks:

[150,223]-[181,290]

 

Irinveron - two rectangles:

[149,677]-[160,695] and

[161,653]-[195,682]

 

Melinis - port within the city

 

Hurquin:

[118,84]-[152,104]

 

South Redmoon - two rectangles:

[159,10]-[181,30] and

[182,25]-[196,60]

 

Iscalrith - two rectangles:

[240,340]-[245,256] and

[246,330]-[286,360]

 

Regards

 

Chryzopraz

Edited October 21, 2007 by Chryzopraz

[Entropy]

Well, so far we decided to increase the "you can't be attacked while changing the maps" time to 15 seconds, and have just the underworlds and Isla Prima as safe maps.

 

If enough people request it, we can add some other safe areas, but not ebfore we test stuff first.

[bkc56]

Well, so far we decided to increase the "you can't be attacked while changing the maps" time to 15 seconds, and have just the underworlds and Isla Prima as safe maps.

 

If enough people request it, we can add some other safe areas, but not ebfore we test stuff first.

Does the above include or exclude the other areas (not entire maps) you said would be safe: inside walled cities, and the docks (so you can get off IP and to a storage)?

[Entropy]

Safe anything (maps, areas, etc.)

[bkc56]

Safe anything (maps, areas, etc.)

OK, so referring to this thread ( http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=37949 ), how are new/weak people suppose to get of IP or get to a storage? Having the docks and cities be safe was the opportunity for new players to get established with existing stronger players already there.

[Sayre]

Its a PK server.

 

You want safe, stay on the main server.

 

Come up with strategies to either become a strong player or ally with them, rather than insisting on corridors of safeness and happiness.

 

S.

[bkc56]

Its a PK server.

 

You want safe, stay on the main server.

You've trivialized a bunch of discussion on other threads and in-game to the point of being meaningless. There are valid reasons for making a way off IP, as well as a way to get to a storage to get supplies. Including them will help encourage more people to try the PK server. People getting PKed as they hit the WS docks will discourage them. Entropy already said these areas would be safe, I'm just trying to confirm if he changed his mind or not.

[The_Piper]

The problem with safe areas on a PK server is:

 

There is a lot of countryside where is nothing, but only a few spots where you can get stuff or store stuff. So its easy for players just to camp there and kill everyone.

 

The 15 secons of not being attacked after map change are great, no need to define safe areas, 15 seconds should be enough to run from one ship to another and escape.

 

The problem is, when cities are not safe places. There is a limited amount of storages in game, so its easy just to go from storage to storage and kill ppl there. Same with harvesting spots, lets say, places where you can mine silver.

 

I dont say now, make every silver spot a safe area, but to make some storages and cities a safe place would be handy and stop campers. IMO a pk server should not only support the strong guys, it should have some strategy too. Just camping at one spot, e.g. storage, is a little bit too easy IMO.

 

Portland city has a storage and 5 exits, that should be fine for players to go to storage and escape, the pkers can try to hunt them, for example.

 

WSC has 3 exits, maybe there can be a storage too.

 

VOTD has 4 exits and a storage too, NC city has 2 exits, maybe the storage can be inside the city, TG has 3 or 4 exits and the storage inside the city walls.

 

So, to make such cities with a city wall a safe place give lower leveled players a chance to escape and higher leveled players can team up and try to camp at the exits of the cities to kill others.

 

Keep in mind, even a PK server needs somehow an economy, or do you want to buy all your HE's from magic shops?

 

When players dont have the chance to make some stuff in peace and sell it to NPC's, where should money enter the game? Ppl will end up by killing monsters and waiting for gold coins drops to make money, and thats the last thing a PK server needs IMO.

 

How can you PK a rich harvester or alchemist, if they dont have the chance to become rich? How can a harvester pay guards to protect him while harvesting, when he has no chance to make some money?

 

Well, just my 2 euro gc's

 

Piper

[Sayre]

You've trivialized a bunch of discussion on other threads and in-game to the point of being meaningless.

 

It kinda was.

IP is safe, cities seem destined to be safe, there will be a period of non-attack on map changes.

 

How much safer do you want this PK server to get?

 

S.

[bkc56]

Thank you Piper, you did a great job of summarizing pages of other discussion on the topic.

 

And I don't think there should be any more safe areas than have already been talked about: IP, Underworld, Docks, and a few of the walled cities (so you can get to a storage or two). A 15 second delay might be ok for the docks if you're computer isn't to slow (use all that time loading the map data) but it would be better to just make them safe.

 

That should provide enough for new players to get a foothold on developing a character. But that still puts almost all the harvestables in PK areas, especially some of the important ones (like silver ore).

 

Will the above safe areas be enough for character and economy development? I'm not sure, but it's a good starting point. Entropy can always adjust more/less safe areas as we see how it goes.

[Entropy]

As I was saying, we'll test it with no safe zones first (except for the underworlds and IP) and then see if people want more safe zones or not (will have some vote).

 

As for the storages, there are like 20 storages in the game, and only ~50 players that ordered an account so far. Considering that they won't all play at the same time, I don't think they will be able to camp at the storages. Besides, camping time means lost exp time.

[BlackFalcon]

Hi there,

 

Ill get an acc (aswell as one for my brother) when i figured out how this paypal thingy really works (got an acc waiting for them to give me money so i can give them the little numbers...).

 

I would vote for Underworld/IP AND the docks to get to: IP-Whitestone, Whitestone-DesertPines, DesertPines-VOTD and the docks/storage area at VOTD.

 

This would ensure a save way back from the underworld to a storage. Furthermore there will be enough routes available to dodge camping pkers.

 

For the pkers its fun but when you want to trade supplies and some1 knows you want to buy *market channel* they could wait you up..

 

Just my idea..

[Mango]

Hi there,

 

Ill get an acc (aswell as one for my brother) when i figured out how this paypal thingy really works (got an acc waiting for them to give me money so i can give them the little numbers...).

 

I would vote for Underworld/IP AND the docks to get to: IP-Whitestone, Whitestone-DesertPines, DesertPines-VOTD and the docks/storage area at VOTD.

 

This would ensure a save way back from the underworld to a storage. Furthermore there will be enough routes available to dodge camping pkers.

 

For the pkers its fun but when you want to trade supplies and some1 knows you want to buy *market channel* they could wait you up..

 

Just my idea..

 

Agreed, I think 1 store should safe to travel to from hell. Otherwise in the long run people will have to wear several rostogol stones to protect their stuff.

 

And if somewhere a massive battle is going on, restocking would be nice without being killed too much.

[Stricken]

Enclosed cities, docks, ip, hell should all be safe areas this way people can make some decent GC and not worry about losing it all to pk'ers. Because making money would be sweet.

[bkc56]

... AND the docks to get to: IP-Whitestone, Whitestone-DesertPines, DesertPines-VOTD and the docks/storage area at VOTD.

Just a note on docks: the 15 seconds no-attack delay on map changes pretty much takes care of all the docks withOUT Entropy having to make all those map def file edits.

 

The only down-side is that you can't safely sit at the docks, you need to jump right on to the next boat.

 

My only input would be to increase the delay a little to account for map load time on slower machines. Perhaps up to 20 seconds, just to give a bit more of a buffer to get loaded and walk to that farthest ship.

[Stricken]

We could atleast make the enclosed cities (WSC / Votd) safe because of that is place where people need to go often for essences and stuff. until we all have the knowledge that is. I would just camp @ the wsc magic shop if i had 2... no essences = no heals no heals = death

[BlackFalcon]

yeah you can get from boat to boat pretty safe and 15 secs is more then enough But I still think that the area near the strorage in VOTD should be nonpk (along with the docks there)

 

 

 

And about some existing arenas (DP, WSC)... could they be made into something special too? Because theres nothing special about them now, you can fight anywhere. Maybe that all players in that area get a temporary attack boost of 10? faster dying.. Or no rostogols will work while in that area?

Edited December 15, 2007 by BlackFalcon