Newcomers, guilds and such..

[sadarar]

I cannot see the problem at all. Of course we all see players running around with tags you don't recognise, and the guild_info is "we are da pr0 PK guild" blah blah. So what?? If a player sits for 100 hours at lilaces to get money for tit plate, then so what? some high end manufacturer got his exp from making, or the game got a much needed $$ injection, so who is hurt?

 

Newbies who can't light a fire are always going to be around, and I really can't see how the problem is worse becaue they have a tag. The game needs gc sinks, and disposable guilds are just that.

 

I totally agree with the sentiment behind the comments re pride in your guild. I am now in my second guild, and have been proud to be a member of both. Of course experienced players will judge a person by their tag, and will choose a guild accordingly. If a players tag is from some no-mark guild, then for me, it makes sense to assume that it reflects on the player himself.

 

I was not playing the game around the time harked after in the opening post, but I can well imagine that setting up a guild at the time was a difficult task. However, comments that guild tags used to be a badge of honour, and GMs had to work hard to set up and maintain a guild, for me at least, miss the point. It is STILL hard to set up a GOOD guild. It is STILL a great task to manage a good guild, keep the membership active and filter out potential timewasters. So the big "good" guiilds (I mean this in terms of the number and more importantly, the quality of the members) are as much of an achievement and a badge of honour as ever.

 

Just my 2gc

[Vanyel]

 

As for changing the requirements for guilds, I searched and searched but couldn't find it, but I thought for sure somewhere this subject came up and entropy agreed with it and said he would likely change it eventually. This is just from memory though, since I can't find the post, and I could be completely wrong

 

As far as I remember this topic was discussed for quite a long time in Suggestions forums. I would have to do some digging to find it though.

 

Oh well...

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...81&hl=guild

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...11&hl=guild

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...c=24335&hl=

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...;hl=Guild+level

 

As you all can see the topic of guilds is almost as old as the game itself. It comes back from time to time.

[Ben]

Following on from what Anshar said, should this:

 

Ok, short and sweet:

 

*I would like to see that the requiremetns for wearing armor/weapons and capes are adjusted in a way that its not only nexus-related but also stats related.

 

*I would like to see the requirements for making and joining guilds are adjusted in a way that not only a skill of 20 is required, but also some kind of basic training to join a guild.

As for making a guild, that also should require some advanged training.

 

Not be in the suggestions forum anyway?

[Jezebelle]

 

Im not going into the remark of 'whats so horrible about new players, coz thats NOT what i said or meant.

 

Ok, short and sweet:

 

*I would like to see that the requiremetns for wearing armor/weapons and capes are adjusted in a way that its not only nexus-related but also stats related.

 

*I would like to see the requirements for making and joining guilds are adjusted in a way that not only a skill of 20 is required, but also some kind of basic training to join a guild.

As for making a guild, that also should require some advanged training.

 

 

Ok you want to make it way harder for new players to have guilds, capes, and armors, i.e. play this game,

for what purpose? Do you realize if you try to drive every new player away, by making the game impossible

to reach anything fun for say 3 months...no one will play? The point should be to intrigue new players to play

and stay and not form the game into your image.

 

 

I tend to disagree This will make it more of a challenge for new players to work harder. So many newcomers get bored real quickly, coz theres seems to be no more challenge for many after they get nice armor and a shiny weapon.

So, I see it as an improvement of the game, yes.

 

Jez

[Deified]

I was at work the other day and tried to make a coffee, but my manager wouldn't let me, apparently I don't have a high enough level nor have I been working there long enough :/

 

roflmao @ this thread, people play games in different ways, stop being such a nosy control freak and let them Jezebelle. I have often noticed in my past dealings with you how you manage to ALWAYS see your point of view as the "right" one and completely ignore any voice of reason or anyone else's opinion after you have formed your view. Try to be more open minded and less egoistical, there are other ways of doing things than only yours, and nothing gives you the right to criticize these ways.

 

Edit: Typo's

Edited September 23, 2007 by Deified

[Jezebelle]

I was at work the other day and tried to make a coffee, but my manager wouldn't let me, apparently I don't have a high enough level nor have I been working there long enough :/

 

roflmao @ this thread, people play games in different ways, stop being such a nosy control freak and let them Jezebelle. I have often noticed in my past dealings with you how you manage to ALWAYS see your point of view as the "right" one and completely ignore any voice of reason or anyone else's opinion after you have formed your view. Try to be more open minded and less egoistical, there are other ways of doing things than only yours, and nothing gives you the right to criticize these ways.

 

Edit: Typo's

 

 

Do I know you?

Edited September 23, 2007 by Jezebelle

[Deified]

Whether you do or not shouldn't make any difference in this matter, the truth is the truth no matter who utters it, but for future references yes, you do know me.

[Jezebelle]

Whether you do or not shouldn't make any difference in this matter, the truth is the truth no matter who utters it, but for future references yes, you do know me.

 

 

I think it does matter since i dont recall ever speaking let alone 'dealing' with you, but this too is a personal matter so Ill take this to Pm.

 

Jez

[Cissysauce]

Jez, I do agree with your point about needing higher levels to be able to create a guild, however the requirements to join a guild should be left up to each individual guild.

 

After having read this entire thread it does seem as though you have contradicted yourself. I don't believe that newbies wearing full tit armor & not being able to light a fire is as big of an issue as you make it seem. If that scenario has even occured once the way you described it I would be surprised.

 

Since this is the only RPG I have ever played I am for sure not an expert. But for me one of the things that makes this game so enjoyable is that it can be adapted to so many styles of game play. I have been playing EL for less than one year but in that time I have changed my goals & the way I play the game many times.

 

If someone is new to the game & has a goal of wearing the shiny titanium armor that he saw people wearing in VOTD then I say go for it. If he wants to spend a gazillion hours harvesting blue lupines to get that armor then good for him. Personally that would be super boring for me, but who am I to say that his way of playing is wrong? He set a goal, worked hard for it, & got his reward. What is so bad about that?

 

The new players who beg do suck, but imo that has NOTHING to do with what kind of armor they wear or if they are in a guild or not. I would hope that they would learn that begging is not cool when they do join a guild. I know that not all of them do, but the ones who stick around long enough usually do. Most of the beggars I see have less than 30 hp & are naked and unarmed. The best way to deal with beggars is to tell them how to make money. If they still insist on begging then yes I will ignore.

 

I know for a lot of players this game is all about PK. Imagine if they decided that the way you play this game is all wrong. What if "the community" decided that everyone needed to have some PK skills, and that people who refuse to enter a PK map are ruining the game for everyone? I bet you would be one of the first people to stand up and say that we should all be able to play the game the way we choose.

 

 

Another thing you should take into account is that this game is a lot easier when you know the ins & outs. I have an alt character (and i know others do as well) that is very low level & she has full tit, CoL, great sword, & a bunch of other fancy stuff, & yes she is a newb as far as stats go, but i knew how to make money by the time I created her so it was easy to get that stuff.

I am just saying to look at it from another side. I do think this game is hard enough for new players, I dont think we need to make it any harder for them, and I definitely dont think we should discount someone who worked hard for his gear (can't believe it is just given out freely) and say that he doesn't have the right to wear it because he never learned how to light a fire.

 

I am not posting this on behalf of the community however, all my friends do agree with me

 

sorry for the length I THINK im done now

Cissy

[robotbob]

 

 

Its not a question of WHAT gives that 'power'as you put it, we are a community here, and WE need to decide how we want the community to be like.

 

You and what elected offical gets to decide? No,, its a game and people will play it as the game is designed

and it doesnt take a little "council" to govern how people should play it.

 

Erm..where did I say me and 'elected official's 'get to decide? I said its up to the community..

 

 

See this

 

I would like to suggest to create a Guilds Council. All guildleaders take place in that council and we will monthly meetings with all guildleaders.

For day-to-day issues we can have a board of about 5 members of the Council.

 

We can discuss things like outlaw issues, abuse and other stuff that mods cant do anything about coz its not 100% against gamerules. So many times someone does something real bad, but cannot get a mods punnishment because its not against gamerules, but its frustrating someone gets a way with it, dont you think..?

 

Perhaps we can even have a Trial stand, where we, the Council think of punishments against those that cross the lines..

 

I know we dont have 'powers' to realy punish someone..but being given the silent treatment..isnt nice..imho..and if we unite as a Council..it will have more effect then when a few ppl keep to a punishment.

 

And, we might also discuss ingame issues, developement issues and come up with good suggestions for the devs of this game.

 

Together we can do so much more..together we stand strong..against anything and anyone..smile.gif

 

 

Wow, What can I say 2 years ago. You know if would be far easier to start a cult in your own

town than ingame.

[Jezebelle]

 

 

Its not a question of WHAT gives that 'power'as you put it, we are a community here, and WE need to decide how we want the community to be like.

 

You and what elected offical gets to decide? No,, its a game and people will play it as the game is designed

and it doesnt take a little "council" to govern how people should play it.

 

Erm..where did I say me and 'elected official's 'get to decide? I said its up to the community..

 

 

See this

 

I would like to suggest to create a Guilds Council. All guildleaders take place in that council and we will monthly meetings with all guildleaders.

For day-to-day issues we can have a board of about 5 members of the Council.

 

We can discuss things like outlaw issues, abuse and other stuff that mods cant do anything about coz its not 100% against gamerules. So many times someone does something real bad, but cannot get a mods punnishment because its not against gamerules, but its frustrating someone gets a way with it, dont you think..?

 

Perhaps we can even have a Trial stand, where we, the Council think of punishments against those that cross the lines..

 

I know we dont have 'powers' to realy punish someone..but being given the silent treatment..isnt nice..imho..and if we unite as a Council..it will have more effect then when a few ppl keep to a punishment.

 

And, we might also discuss ingame issues, developement issues and come up with good suggestions for the devs of this game.

 

Together we can do so much more..together we stand strong..against anything and anyone..smile.gif

 

 

Wow, What can I say 2 years ago. You know if would be far easier to start a cult in your own

town than ingame.

 

 

Indeed..2 years ago..and again..dont mess with things you know nothing about.

 

I will leave this up to those who CAN make a difference. Im not into flaming and personal wars here.

 

Jez

[robotbob]

...

I know for a lot of players this game is all about PK. Imagine if they decided that the way you play this game is all wrong. What if "the community" decided that everyone needed to have some PK skills, and that people who refuse to enter a PK map are ruining the game for everyone? I bet you would be one of the first people to stand up and say that we should all be able to play the game the way we choose.

 

...

Cissy

 

Yes, I propose if you don't enter a pk map once a month your char loses the ability to wear armors\weapons.

I mean they aren't for show. Since I feel this is the way EL should be played. I propose a community lynch

mobs to shove players into KF. But I will leave this up to those who CAN make a difference.

[hatwood]

as far as i am concerned, the full titanium armor wearing "newbies" help support the game... how is sending money to the creators of el not supporting it? the way i see it is: you can either make stuff to sell in game for a couple of days to get a ti plate, or you can work extra hours in real life and buy them from the shop and directly support the financial side of hosting a game like this. yes, one way affects the community in one way and the other in a different way, but so what? people support the game either way they acquire the armor.

i dont have the extra cash to spare for buying in the shop so to those who can, it keeps the game free.

[Airakose]

I AGREE COMPLETELY! I started EL at the end of the era of honorable guilds, now everyone i meet on IP says they want to start a guild. My first guild, LoCo, was an excellent guild I had 19/18 att/def before i joined. i remember it easily. Everyone in guilds now have no experience in anything besides harvest.

 

I dont tend to have any decent armor besided Aug'ed leather, yet i see many players with att/def levels far below even 10 showing off their iron/steel armors. There seems to be little to no concern on knoweledge and abilities now... it is all about LOOKING good.

 

Yes, increasing the required skills would make EL better, it would give players more goals to reach for! It should also shove the spoiled players of RS away so we keep the scum away I hope the creators of EL work on this!!! Would help alot!

[robotbob]

 

Im hoping for a respons of our Maker by now..; Lord Entropy, what do you say?

 

Jez

 

Sorry I just have one final point to make:

 

Remember this?

My Lord,

 

You stated this thread only for Pk guilds, but it will effect non-pk guilds as well.

I stand by my concerns that i stated in my former posts and will no extend to tem again, but merely summurize them:

 

1. I dont like to be confrontated with the attacking/killing/slaughtering of friends or foes of my family or me in person. If I want to witnes that, ill go to an arena or to pk areas.

 

2. newcomers can get abused by this if they dont know enough of the guild they join, knowingly be kept in te dark, or just being naive.

 

3.in overall..this World will loose its status for being safe to all, being in the presence of a homicide can be just as frighning and traumatizing as participating in one

 

You asked for our concerns, my Lord, these are mine.I will not enjoy my walks along the river sides or through Your woods s much as i did ever again, being constantly afraid to see soemthing i dont wanna see.

 

in deep respect,

 

JezeBelle

 

And your "Lord" replied:

 

 

If we keep posting shit like this, we get banned from the forums, ok?

 

 

 

 

 

as far as i am concerned, the full titanium armor wearing "newbies" help support the game... how is sending money to the creators of el not supporting it? the way i see it is: you can either make stuff to sell in game for a couple of days to get a ti plate, or you can work extra hours in real life and buy them from the shop and directly support the financial side of hosting a game like this. yes, one way affects the community in one way and the other in a different way, but so what? people support the game either way they acquire the armor.

i dont have the extra cash to spare for buying in the shop so icon13.gif to those who can, it keeps the game free.

 

Exactly. Castle bricks don't make themselves.

[Vanyel]

I AGREE COMPLETELY! I started EL at the end of the era of honorable guilds, now everyone i meet on IP says they want to start a guild. My first guild, LoCo, was an excellent guild I had 19/18 att/def before i joined. i remember it easily. Everyone in guilds now have no experience in anything besides harvest.

 

I dont tend to have any decent armor besided Aug'ed leather, yet i see many players with att/def levels far below even 10 showing off their iron/steel armors. There seems to be little to no concern on knoweledge and abilities now... it is all about LOOKING good.

 

Yes, increasing the required skills would make EL better, it would give players more goals to reach for! It should also shove the spoiled players of RS away so we keep the scum away I hope the creators of EL work on this!!! Would help alot!

 

So the requirements were perfectly ok when you were about to join a guild and now they're too low. Interesting point of view. Very. Moreoever, you don't have stuff, but they do have and it sucks. It's another interesting point of view. Very.

[bkc56]

Well this topic has sure generated a lot of heated comments (and not as many thoughtful ones as it could have). It's a hard subject though. I clearly see the point-of-view that says "let people do what they want". Who cares if an inexperienced person makes a guild that folds in a few weeks? It doesn't hurt anything. What's the problem with newbs owning full TI armor? They'll probably loose it and it's good for the economy.

 

That's all true, but I think it misses the larger picture. This game is as much about community as it is about playing. Also, this is a long-term game about working to develop skills (not weeks, but months or years). It's not about instant gratification. I think that a newb with full TI armor after a few weeks of selling flowers has missed the most important, fun, and satisfying parts of the game.

 

There have been other threads about increasing the requirements to be able to create and/or join a guild. I don't think that would be a bad thing. I remember how long I searched, how many folks I talked to, trying to find a guild to join. And I remember how proud I was when I was accepted into the one I applied to (SegV). I think researching, working, and achieving that goal was a good thing.

 

I can also see the arguments in favor of skill requirements for wearing armor or using swords. That clearly makes sense from a role-play point-of-view. You never give the best gear to brand new warriors. They have to earn the skills and the right to use it. And again, I think that work towards a goal, and achieving it is a good thing.

 

As I think about this, I believe it boils down to a simple choice as to the type of game EL is (or will become). Is it about instant gratification and short-term gains, or is it about long-term game-play and achieving goals you can be proud of. Personally, if I want instant gratification I'll play solitaire. I play EL because it's been something higher, and better.

[Vanyel]

I can also see the arguments in favor of skill requirements for wearing armor or using swords. That clearly makes sense from a role-play point-of-view. You never give the best gear to brand new warriors. They have to earn the skills and the right to use it. And again, I think that work towards a goal, and achieving it is a good thing.

 

Actually, it doesn't make sense. It is as in real life. In theory you can use everything you get into your hands. Question is if you use it correctly. I can imagine people using microscopes to scratch.

What would make sense are penalties for using armour that you're not trained in using, instead of required level to use it at all. You can wave around with an extremely good sword, but it's hardly possible you kill anything with it. In the other case we will end like Deified. We won't have high enough levels to make coffee:S

[Shea]

As I think about this, I believe it boils down to a simple choice as to the type of game EL is (or will become). Is it about instant gratification and short-term gains, or is it about long-term game-play and achieving goals you can be proud of. Personally, if I want instant gratification I'll play solitaire. I play EL because it's been something higher, and better.

 

 

That is definately your right. This game allows for many different personal goals and styles. I have my own way of playing, which does not harm anyone else nor does it prevent them from enjoying the game in their own way. If someone's style of playing is different from yours, what harm are they doing to you? If the answer is none, then honestly...its none of your business.

 

Play the game to make yourself happy and don't worry about what others do. The only thing you can accomplish by comparing yourself to someone else is bitterness.

 

 

Shea

[conavar]

 

 

That is definately your right. This game allows for many different personal goals and styles. I have my own way of playing, which does not harm anyone else nor does it prevent them from enjoying the game in their own way. If someone's style of playing is different from yours, what harm are they doing to you? If the answer is none, then honestly...its none of your business.

 

Play the game to make yourself happy and don't worry about what others do. The only thing you can accomplish by comparing yourself to someone else is bitterness.

 

 

Shea

 

100% spot on Shea

 

As far as I see it the game is made up of individuals each has there own traits, personality and way to play the game.

 

Guilds are groups of individuals with the same outlook, goals, game style, etc etc. not everyone is the same, so lets not try and force them to be

 

 

People keep on about the community and how this and that might be better for it, but you know the best thing about this community is ? .. Freedom of choice how you play the game.

 

So if one GM wants to only allow people with skills over 50 into there guild then that is there right, it doesnt have to be forced upon them by Ent, Mods, Rule or game changes.The same goes for a noob guild which allows anyone to join, thats is there right.

 

So IMO lets keep this community as it is, and that is allowing people to run there own part of the community how they choose

Edited September 23, 2007 by conavar

[bkc56]

I can also see the arguments in favor of skill requirements for wearing armor or using swords. That clearly makes sense from a role-play point-of-view. You never give the best gear to brand new warriors. They have to earn the skills and the right to use it.

Actually, it doesn't make sense. It is as in real life. In theory you can use everything you get into your hands. Question is if you use it correctly.

I would guess you haven't spent any time in any formal combat training or military organization. You clearly don't get to play with the big "toys" until you are trained and have mastered the smaller "toys".

 

On the other hand, perhaps you are right. EL does seem to have more newbs running around with fancy stuff they have no idea how to properly use than it has highly trained and appropriately equipped warriors.

[robotbob]

I would guess you haven't spent any time in any formal combat training or military organization. You clearly don't get to play with the big "toys" until you are trained and have mastered the smaller "toys".

 

Since EL is an Army RPG, this completely applies. He said a person can hold a hammer but it doesn't make them a master carpenter. You can wield it, but maybe with penalties until ...[insert level or condition]

 

On the other hand, perhaps you are right. EL does seem to have more newbs running around with fancy stuff they have no idea how to properly use than it has highly trained and appropriately equipped warriors.

 

Yes I know how complicated it is, equip a sword and click the thing you want to fight. I do this constantly with

a sword in EL never quite sure I am properly using it. Sounds like more fancy stuff envy to me.

[bkc56]

Yes I know how complicated it is, equip a sword and click the thing you want to fight. I do this constantly with a sword in EL never quite sure I am properly using it.

Given the huge variety of armor/swords, choices of capes, and large number of potions, magic spells, summoning, and other stuff available (especially in the PK area), fighting is about a lot more than "equiping a sword and clicking".

 

As others have pointed out, it's the newbs who think they're "pr0" because they are wearing nice armor and holding a fancy sword. It's the skilled fighters (of which I am not included) that can and do make proper use of all the other aspects. They're the true professionals (in the context of EL).

[robotbob]

Yes I know how complicated it is, equip a sword and click the thing you want to fight. I do this constantly with a sword in EL never quite sure I am properly using it.

Given the huge variety of armor/swords, choices of capes, and large number of potions, magic spells, summoning, and other stuff available (especially in the PK area), fighting is about a lot more than "equiping a sword and clicking".

 

Nope its alot of clicking.

Click Victim, Click Mana Drain, Click Evasion Pot. Click summons, Click...Dang he fleed, Click Tele to Range,

Click near victim, Click summons, Click victim, Click Bag, type #ignore victim.

 

As others have pointed out, it's the newbs who think they're "pr0" because they are wearing nice armor and holding a fancy sword. It's the skilled fighters (of which I am not included) that can and do make proper use of all the other aspects. They're the true professionals (in the context of EL).

 

It ok if they think they are "pr0" its their right to form any opinion of themselves they like.

[Jaha]

Some guildmates and I were talking about this, and possible solutions to newbs being in guilds without the GM caring about the newbs. One possible solution is changing the guild creation requirement level to 70 and make it cost 100k. The guilds would not be able to be transferred to someone who does not have the required level. Also, on the side of recruitment, it would cost 1k per acceptance of new player, with the exception if that guild was the last guild the person was in (i.e. to leave guild to go train, but not to guild hop). This would keep it easy to recruit new players, but make it so guilds cant except people who wont ever play ever again just to boost their guild number.

 

#edit: for some reason it submitted before I was done typing

Edited September 24, 2007 by Jaha