Active Hyperbag "Treasure Hunts"

[Mugwump]

I agree it's a free-for-all too.

That's pretty much what the rules say about untended bags, anyway.

[extrapolation]

i can deal with losing stuff, but i dont think that gives me the right to make others put up with it

[csiga]

My opinion is: once the bag is opened, it has the same rules as normal bags (which posted frequently to the #message channel), not depends on what is inside the bag. If somebody left his bag on popular places, he has to count with the consequences, it doesn't matter it was hyperspace bag or normal. Bagjumpers can be everywhere. The term 'Treasure hunting' may be wrong, because the bags can only dropped by other players to hyperspace. So, if anybody found it and stealing its contents, then it will be bagjumping. Of course there are a few cases when hyperbags dropped to make fun contests.

 

Another thing: if somebody found a hyperbag, can ask for the owner (for the bag contents) on the channels where the db questions posted normally. Later if no answer, it will be his bag, without "jumping on it" :-)

[rmiles]

In my opinion opining someones hyperbag is bag jumping. The person that made the hyperbag intended it to be his or hers and to be safe from opening and taking it's contents.

Edited September 10, 2007 by rmiles

[Itzalan]

Hmm, many bad reasons for both sides here in my opinion and quite a twisted logic sometimes. Anyway, here's my opinion.

 

For those who like to make RL analogies :

- If i find a wallet on the floor, i'll look for its owner or bring it to nearest police station so they can find the owner for me.

- If i find a chest in a hole on a beach, i'll take it. It's totally legal to do so in most countries (Including mine ). And community ? Community will be jealous of me and laugh at the one stupid enough to leave that chest there (I said beach, it also works with caves or forests )

 

For those who don't like RL analogies :

- If i find a db, i'll look for its owner and give it back (Many people can confirm it )

- If i find a hyperbag, i'll take it. And community ? Well, same as above or not, the bag is mine anyways

 

And for those who wonder, no, i won't jump on a hyperbag if i see you making it, it wouldn't be fun for me. And for the bag owner's fun, well, he had fun making it and if he didn't, he must be masochist, so he had fun in the end.

[ttlanhil]

Yay for people missing the point...

Lastly, how much fun would it be if we were all goodie-two-shoes? Much fun right.. no more excitement.

Never a risk to lose stuff anymore, everyone is being ever so kind and good to all. If that is how you want this community, you sicken me.

That doesn't come into play at all. That's the same argument used when people post about bag jumpers, or people PKing trainers, whatever. It's legal by game rules, we know. Anyone is allowed to do it, we know. It's against community standards, and you may suffer for it, that's clear. People are welcome to play the baddie (as long as they accept the consequences and do it within limits, swearing and insults and spamming and all are out, of course). That has nothing to do with the difference between a (usually) accidental bag from death or tp nexus and a hyperbag. Yes, some of the rest of your post did deal with that, but most of it was just the same old stuff about any bags or other antisocial behaviour.

When you drop something, you lose your title of "owning" it. Sure, the person who finds it has found something that isnt his/hers, but its free game.

Anyone who doesn't know that shouldn't be commenting. For that matter, anyone who thinks that there's any point in stating stuff like this, yet again, probably shouldn't be commenting. How many times has that been said? It has no relevance here.

ed: To clarify: We're not talking about the legality of bag jumping, in any form, whether HBags are counted or not. Please don't talk about bag jumping itself. The thread is if taking HBags is the same as (other) forms of bag jumping. That's all. Anything not about that is off topic.

It's like leaving a open bag of quartz, iron and etc.. in CC while you head to storage for more FPS. You really cant get mad if someone takes it, you left it and was just hopeing no one would take it.

Well, not really the same. "Okay, I gotta run, I'll leave this stuff laying here... If it doesn't poof and no-one else picks it up, I'll grab half a load of ingreds from it when I get back" vs "Okay, enough for now, I'll hide this where people can't accidentally get it and when I come back I'll pick up (possibly) many loads of ingredients". The point has some validity, sure, but I don't see how you can say it's the same thing. Edited September 10, 2007 by ttlanhil

[kaGen]

When you drop something, you lose your title of "owning" it. Sure, the person who finds it has found something that isnt his/hers, but its free game.

Anyone who doesn't know that shouldn't be commenting. For that matter, anyone who thinks that there's any point in stating stuff like this, yet again, probably shouldn't be commenting. How many times has that been said? It has no relevance here.

ed: To clarify: We're not talking about the legality of bag jumping, in any form, whether HBags are counted or not. Please don't talk about bag jumping itself. The thread is if taking HBags is the same as (other) forms of bag jumping. That's all. Anything not about that is off topic.

It's like leaving a open bag of quartz, iron and etc.. in CC while you head to storage for more FPS. You really cant get mad if someone takes it, you left it and was just hopeing no one would take it.

Well, not really the same. "Okay, I gotta run, I'll leave this stuff laying here... If it doesn't poof and no-one else picks it up, I'll grab half a load of ingreds from it when I get back" vs "Okay, enough for now, I'll hide this where people can't accidentally get it and when I come back I'll pick up (possibly) many loads of ingredients". The point has some validity, sure, but I don't see how you can say it's the same thing.

[/quote

 

 

You're right, however with the first part, I was TRYING(notice I wasnt very good at it ) To say that when you drop something in a bag (not die and lose stuff, just plain drop it) and leave it, you cant call it your property. Thats... just... wrong. You purposely left it there and expect no one to take it. Like I said in my first post, I dont support taking HB, as it would destroy whatever the owner was doing. I dont however, think its bagjumping. If I made a HB, I would pretty much expect to lose it.

 

And for the second part, you're correct again. Never thought about it quite that way.

I'm 14 and am horrible at explaining anything through text, so sorry ahead of time

 

Hope this makes a tiny bit more sense, and I agree with Itaz's post, which was what I was attempting to explain.

(sorry for messed up qoutes, I couldnt figure it out.)

 

I probably am still missing the point, just trying to clear up what I said.

 

~kGn

Edited September 11, 2007 by kaGen

[Devani]

I do not like the wording of this poll because it makes it appear that someone was looking for a bag that belonged to a specific person or guild and that is rarely the case. But I also think taking someones hyperbag is stealing and if I accidently found one I would close it back and leave it alone. But that is me. I do not condone nor condemn others for playing the game the way it was intended. I also have a hyperbag out there, but I do not leave any Ess or bars in it, I take the things that are of value to me out of it before I lock it. The main thing here is it is a game. If you lose you hyperbag, you lose a lot of work you put into a game. I know it gets frustrating but it is a part of the game. If some in rl took your money they might have taken food off your table or money to pay your bill. Luckily we do not have those consequences here.

[Malificent]

I was harving gypsum into a hyperbag not long ago and had about 2k harved and had to go afk. So I went to seal the bag and noticed it told me the bag was full??? So it kicked about 20 srs I'd had in the bag back into my inv, I left, went to storage, went afk.

 

Came back later that evening and opened the bag (had #mark'd it on map) and what do I see? My bag mixed in with someone elses. Dunno how that happened, but I moved my 2k to a new location and sealed the bag.

 

I don't know how the bags got mixed when I made my bag in that spot, but my point is, I could have helped myself to about 10k gypsum, but I didn't, I closed the bag and left it, and deleted the mark off my map so as not to disturb someones stuff.

 

I see it as someone worked really hard to harv all that, so its not mine. Why should I take it?

 

BTW- to my understanding, if there is a hyperbag in the spot you are standing and you make a new bag and seal it on that same spot, they are not supposed to mix together right? If that's right, then houston we have a problem, cause I've had it happen more than once.

[Devani]

I had that happen once too, I do believe when you use a key to open it, it opens both bags and it is a combined bag. There is really nothing you can do about. there is no way to know which bag to open. I also moved my stuff and locked the other stuff back up.

[wilbur_whateley]

IMHO someone who actively searches for my hyperbag and intentionally opens it without my permission and takes the content of the bag is a bagstealer

[kailomonkey]

If you are leaving something hidden in a bush or in little hole in a cliff, if it is discovered it is likely taken away from there...this is the same as hyper bags...

 

 

farmers leave fields of crops lying round, does this give you the right to go and harvest it for yourself?

 

Personally I think the first point here is quite appropriate. In real-life if you leave something in a hole, when you return to it it may be gone.

 

However, the question is, when YOU find something in a hole in real life, do YOU take it. If the answer is yes, then you're taking of hyperbags is a simulation of this. If YOU do not take it, but spend the effort to re-conceal it... then not taking hyperbags is a simulation of this.

 

 

What the second point highlights, however, is that you probably won't find much worth taking in a hole in the woods. There are also other complexities of variable worth relating to the difference of need in real-life and in-game. So again this relates to your personal values.

 

So I say live and let live, and if there is a portoin of the community who wish to have these things reported, let information be reported in accuracy and leave each who finds it concerning to make their own decision.

 

 

 

 

And I guess I should post my personal opinion. Searching for other's things to take is stealing, though I admit to taking the pen I'm given to write with, in real life. Also, I'm told "treasure hunting" is fun. Perhaps we should put aside our poll-answer differences and host more treasure hunting contests!

[conavar]

and taking a HBag and returning/taking a DB are again 2 different cases.

Yes, they are, you can truly stumble onto a deathbag, its like finding a wallet in the middle of the road.

Taking a HB is like going into a public place that a person or people frequent, lets say; their workplace, and looking through peoples bags and taking wallets...

 

I know which would be more frowned upon in an RL court of law.

 

(and dont reply with bs about this being EL and not RL, we're discussing community ethics).

 

 

edit: typos

 

100% agree, HB jumping is worse than accidently stumbling over a DB . you have to purposely look for a HB , and lmao at " Treasure Hunting" ,

 

" sorry Mr Judge I wasnt stealing from there house I was just treasure hunting .. can i go now"

Edited September 11, 2007 by conavar

[Mugwump]

Maybe I should retract my previous post altogether as I have never actually used Hbags except on the test server when they came out.

 

It does seem foolish, in EL and RL, to leave anything valuable laying around. Locked, invisible, or by any means other than under the care of a trusted friend or guildmate. I myself am not paranoid, in fact I'm one of the must gullible trusting people everyone I've met knows! If I drop a DB, I'm willing to accept the fact that it will get 'absorbed' one way or another. This is why I'm never seen pouncing on large critters clad in my finest. I'd never leave a bag in front of a resource without someone sharing the job, particularly while mixing. It's too slow and lonely to do alone anyway.

 

It just seems that when you already know that "Freewheelin'_Franklin" is out there with a pocketful of keys hunting around the mines (which is obviously the case) and that he can't get in trouble for keeping that which he finds, why leave a bag? Locked or visible, no difference.

 

Should Hbag hunting be made 'illegal' in some way? It would be hard to prove that you had something invisible stolen from you....

 

Because there is an internet, there are crackers and spammers.

Because there are hyperbags, there are hunters and scammers.... all part of the food chain, so to speak.

 

In the end, it's a risk. Like everything else in the game, 100+ examples come to mind, leaving Hbags is a risk. Just like going for that last beaver fur in the Tutorial Quest with only 9 Material Points left... a plain and simple risk!

(sorry to rant, I'm really a good guy! )

Edited September 11, 2007 by Mugwump

[Troger]

Guys you miss only is that a hyperspace bag is not your house...it is left in the wild..."Mr.Judge" put in a bag 200$$ and burry in the center of your town, or in the forest, if your money will dissapier is it against the community rules in rl...i barely think that...actually if you will go and report it, they would send you in to a medic!

 

Troger

League of Groovy Gentlemen

[Learner]

Guys you miss only is that a hyperspace bag is not your house...it is left in the wild..."Mr.Judge" put in a bag 200$$ and burry in the center of your town, or in the forest, if your money will dissapier is it against the community rules in rl...i barely think that...actually if you will go and report it, they would send you in to a medic!

 

Troger

League of Groovy Gentlemen

I see hyperspace bag hunting similar to using a metal detedtor on public property. And from the point of view of the economy, more people should do it ... help get more gold out of the game!

[Stricken]

me and dekke found markuswecks, hyper bag i was exstatic

[The_Piper]

I see hyperspace bag hunting similar to using a metal detedtor on public property.

 

Which is illegal in some countries for a reason

 

And from the point of view of the economy, more people should do it ... help get more gold out of the game!

 

No, the gold just moves from one pocket to another pocket.

 

But anyways, if you think, its a good idea to deposit 1000 bucks on the street, close to that easy to find lamp post and you expect them to be there in an hour or such, we really cant help you.

 

The same with putting stuff in bags/hyperbags. Put stuff on the ground and you dont own it anymore. Bags are *NOT* a temporary storage.

 

And there is a reason, why we announce that from time to time. Just read it and start to think.

 

Put stuff in a bag and its *GONE*. Simple like hell...

 

The same with scamming. Its not illegal in game or in real life. Just dont give stuff away you dont want to lose. If you do it and lose it, your problem. Seriously.

 

Piper

[ttlanhil]

Put stuff in a bag and its *GONE*. Simple like hell...

And completely irrelevant, since the thread is if hyper bags are treated the same as deathbags or working bags or whatever other sort of bags by the community standards. Not if bagjumping is legal or moral, a topic which has been done to death.

[The_Piper]

Not if bagjumping is legal or moral, a topic which has been done to death.

 

*sigh* absolutely agreed.

 

Piper

[Sayre]

Ok I sort of have a problem with the whole hyperbag thing. A few, but only this relevant to the thread.

 

I think people are relying too much on the good faith of the "community rules" to try to get an advantage in game. For a few hundred gc, you can have a storage right next to a difficult to manage resource, and you can negate what should be a commensurate risk in doing so by claiming anyone acting to fulfill that risk is an "outlaw" and a "bagjumper"

 

Why the hell shouldn't there be a downside to leaving a bag in a public area? Especially one that is not looked down upon by the community. It is right that there is a downside to having a semi-permenant storage near a resource and the community imo is being unfair by putting such a high social penalty on those who enact the downside.

 

Those who say it is akin to stealing from a farmers field: How is it the same? Those crops are on the farmers land. The hyperbags are in a public area, owned by noone. How is it the same? Why should it attract the same social penalty?

 

S.

[korrode]

Why the hell shouldn't there be a downside to leaving a bag in a public area? Especially one that is not looked down upon by the community.

Why the hell shouldn't there be a downside to dying?

The answer is because we respect that others have worked hard for the items they have, and because we, as a community, are prepared to help each other out. Either in the hope that the same will be done for us, or out of an urge to do what we consider honourable, or both.

 

But Spleen, at least your post, unlike so many other peoples, gave reasoning for your No vote without forgetting what the actual vote and question is.

 

ttlanhil has already pointed this out and i will again, as some people just dont seem to get it; many people are posting responses with their personal views about taking other peoples HB's, and not answering the actual question; i'll put it here again as a reminder

If someone actively searched for your hyperbag then intentionally opened it without your permission and took the things you left there, would you consider that bagjumping?

 

What you are basically all voting on, is whether or not people should be posted in Outlaws for taking HB's. You are not voting on whether or not you personally think HBjumping or any kind of bagjumping is ok.

Bare this in mind before you vote, and before you reply to this thread.

 

 

ed: changed the wording of a sentence.

Edited September 12, 2007 by Korrode

[DarkGelf]

Its simple to me, look at the question, if someone intentionally searched for your hyperbag, that part shows planning a forethought designed to do one thing, take that which you made.

 

As for Spleenfeeder's remark about leaving bags in public lands, the remark is a bit strange in a place where only guild maps are not public lands.

 

Half the posts here talk about how the hyperbags were not meant to be tempory storages or such, if so, then why locks? there is no other logical reason for hyperbags in the first place.

 

I will agree that many people are stupid in placing the bags and do deserve to lose them, putting one right at a busy deposit is like asking people to take it, if your gonna make one do it in a remote place and take things to it in such a way that others don't suspect.

 

In my case it all boils down to something that seems rarer by the day, taking something someone else worked for lacks honor, something all to often ignored.

 

Hyperbags, work bags or death bags are all the same to me, if I find one I either try to return it or relock it and walk away.

 

But this is no longer my problem to deal with as I am leaving EL, so I will allow the current members of the EL community to decide what kind of honor they prefer. Peace with you all, DG

[Troger]

As i think I told that why my answer is no...and my oppinion is my answer on this...

What is the difference between losing a bag by death, teleport nexus and hyper bags? The difference is big...when you die or hit teleport nexus, you dont want to leave your things on the ground in a bag ... but a hyperbag cant be made accidently, but can be found only by luck, and with the use of many many keys!!!

That is why i dont consider this bagjumping!

When you make a bag, which are you working on, and you lagg out, ofcourse the same as like losing by death of losing by teleport nexus...but the hyperspace bags...you have to use a key to lock it....to render it invisible...

How would that be if everybody would act like that???

 

And for a previous post of yours...yes you can go and work in a forest in rl and make money...might be that were you live there are no such workers, that is your luck...but when i was kid i worked for money in forest...like picking berries, or collecting mushrooms...and so on...

 

Troger

League of Groovy Gentlemen

[frogimus]

a thief is a thief