Jump to content
Eternal Lands Official Forums
Tarnbriar

Active Hyperbag "Treasure Hunts"

Is intentional hyperbag stealing bagjumping?  

199 members have voted

  1. 1. If someone actively searched for your hyperbag then intentionally opened it without your permission and took the things you left there, would you consider that bagjumping?

    • Yes
      108
    • No
      91


Recommended Posts

This is a question that arose in a discussion on a topic in the Outlaws forum. Posters disagreed about the meaning of an earlier poll, and so I thought another poll, with a more specific question, would be useful.

 

(I posted this poll here instead of in the Outlaws forum because the earlier poll was here and because I think Outlaws is for posting incidents, not taking polls.)

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, there are still two different cases here.

 

If it's just treasure hunt, it is not bagjumping, for example you go to some mines and use hyperkeys, and find bags.

 

But if you record a position where a certain player was working and, expecting him to make a hyperbag, check the location and steal his things, it is bagjumping, IMHO.

 

Anyway, it's just my opinion. Based on how I understood the question I voted NO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Treasurehunting is treasurehuning. I would agree with Vytukas here. No risk, no gain. Treasure hunting requires some means to do and you have no sure you find anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, there are still two different cases here.

 

If it's just treasure hunt, it is not bagjumping, for example you go to some mines and use hyperkeys, and find bags.

 

But if you record a position where a certain player was working and, expecting him to make a hyperbag, check the location and steal his things, it is bagjumping, IMHO.

 

Anyway, it's just my opinion. Based on how I understood the question I voted NO

 

I agree with this completely, treasure hunting is separate to recording positions etc in all but one circumstance; if the player is markusweck. I feel his history in outlaws and that he considers himself an 'angel' all adds to the humourous situation where I would not hold it against any player to record and steal his bags. I would not do this myself though.

 

 

EG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO i'd say finders keepers.

 

it is up to people if they go spend money on keys to see if they can get lucky. you shouldn't be so stupid to put valuable stuff in Hbags cause you know ppl can acces them. so if you loose a bag to someone and loose valuable stuff its your own damm fault :devlish:.

 

and taking a HBag and returning/taking a DB are again 2 different cases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and taking a HBag and returning/taking a DB are again 2 different cases.
Yes, they are, you can truly stumble onto a deathbag, its like finding a wallet in the middle of the road.

Taking a HB is like going into a public place that a person or people frequent, lets say; their workplace, and looking through peoples bags and taking wallets...

 

I know which would be more frowned upon in an RL court of law.

 

(and dont reply with bs about this being EL and not RL, we're discussing community ethics).

 

 

edit: typos

Edited by Korrode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and taking a HBag and returning/taking a DB are again 2 different cases.

 

Sorry, but I am with Korrode on this one.

 

 

 

What is the difference between a HB and an ordinary one? When you drop a bag due to (non-PK) death or whatever, do you not return hoping to find your goods intact? If you found someone on the bag, would you not say the bag is yours and attempt to claim it back? Would you not consider that person a BJer if they refused to give you back your stuff? Sure, there is no law against regular BJing, but it is frowned upon. I don't see why a HB should be seen as anything different. In fact IMHO, regular BJing is analogous to petty theft, while HB stealing is analogous to breaking and entering!

 

 

 

For me, the only justifiable case of HB hunting is when the 'victim' is Joker :) Making an exception when the victim is Markus is just hilarious!! :devlish:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally think that taking a bag of any kind that doesn't contain stuff you have worked for and earned yourself is wrong but that comes from my own set of values about knowing that anything I have has been worked for. I value my own personal integrity above a few pixels in a game.

 

I completely disagree with the vendetta attitude that it is ok to do it to this person or that person but not another, if the intention is to hurt or upset another person then you make yourself no better than them in doing it.

 

However I do also think that it is not very sensible to leave a bag with valuable stuff in it for people to take. Whether that's valuable in terms of contents or time. If you've spent time mixing stuff on site then it doesn't take that much longer to take the mixed items back to sto and just leave unworked ingreds in a bag.

The only time I have used hbs is to leave excess ingreds in rather than anything that I would be upset if I lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you take something without paying for it or earning it (and it wasn't a gift), it's considered stealing. That definition doesn't change just because it happens in a game. Bag jumping and HB "treasure hunts" are both forms of taking something you didn't earn and haven't paid for. You can try to rationalize it all you want, but it's still stealing. There are just no legal repercussions in EL as there are in RL to deter people who are tempted to do it.

Llyn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- eagle : when I die, I will come back to see if my bag is still there. if not i will be angry its gone sure but I won't be bitching about it its a game stuff like this happens. I can replace the items with a bit of effort. the ingame items have no RL value to me. its the persons that do. thats why its so easy for me to say what i said.

 

I don't mind loosing something. I get over it and replace it. as should we all. but the lazyness in comon society these days is not even considering getting up and work for it. all they do is complain.

 

anyways off topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grabbing a hyper is NOT Bagjumping. If someone finds it, it's acceptible for them to keep it, and I wont hate them. Is it nice? no. Do I support it? no. But it isnt a outlawish act, imho.

 

~kGn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you find a hyperspace bag, please poof it or snatch the whole thing. Preferably, poof it.

I voted NO. I have already explained my stance on the outlaws forum, if you're careless with your stuff, don't cry when you lose it.

 

-Blee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far it seem like there are 2 main groups.

Those that think that grabbing a HBag is pretty much the same as grabbing some other bag, and those that don't and give the same reasons people give when someone posts about a 'normal' bagjumper in outlaws.

So really, unless they want to attack the normal bagjumping standards, which this isn't the thread for, I don't see how their opinions are relevant here (they start from a basis that is contrary to community standards, so how can a position developed from there be taken into account on a related matter of community standards?).

Maybe it's stupid and risky to store a lot of stuff in a HBag. Maybe the same applies for dying and dropping a DB. Oh wait, the alternative is to not play, since you then won't lose stuff. Hmm. So nevermind, that doesn't come into it.

There are 3 cases with HBags. Those that you stumble upon, which aren't much different from DBs; those that you expect to find because you saw someone working there, which is worse; and those that you're looking for in a contest or whatever, which are generally up for grabs and okay to take :D

 

ed: To try to make it clearer: People saying it's different seem to be saying that bagjumping should be allowed. They are not addressing if taking HBags is the same as bagjumping. They are not adding relevant opinions to the thread.

 

ed2: Actually... Everyone who says that taking HBags is okay for the reasons given why taking DBs is okay is really saying that, yes, it's the same thing. So all votes by people who use the same reason to say no can be counted as yes. That changes the counts a bit :)

Edited by ttlanhil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

taking a bag is bagjumping for me... if its hidden or not its still a bag that get stolen.

 

or can it be like this.

If u harv at one place and leave it to go to storage and back.. then someone stole it and its bagjumping.

or

if u harv at one place and hide it in a hyperbag go to storage and back... then someone stole it and its leagal :D

 

this sounds weird to me... so bagjump for sure

 

EDIT: stealing in anyways do I see at outlaw (but outlaw and not allowed isnt the same ofcourse)

Edited by mortsllehm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and taking a HBag and returning/taking a DB are again 2 different cases.
Yes, they are, you can truly stumble onto a deathbag, its like finding a wallet in the middle of the road.

Taking a HB is like going into a public place that a person or people frequent, lets say; their workplace, and looking through peoples bags and taking wallets...

 

I know which would be more frowned upon in an RL court of law.

 

(and dont reply with bs about this being EL and not RL, we're discussing community ethics).

 

 

edit: typos

 

Korrode the db expamle is ok that you made, but instead of workplace lets put a forest or a cave...it is something else right...? These caves ingame or atleast a map(not guild maps) are someones property?? Id say no....then nobody can break at somebody's "working place"...get real!

 

Troger

League of Groovy Gentlemen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Workplace is a better example than cave or forest, because the caves in EL are our characters work places.

 

Everyone shares these work places, we go out to them and do work to make money.

 

I dont see how the analogy of people working for the same company, in the same workplace, to all make money, and one or more of those people stealing money from the others, isn't the best analogy for this situation.

 

 

...and basically; just read ttl's post. Anyone who is pro HB jumping is pro Bagjumping in general.

You didnt make the bag, the contents arent yours. If you take them, your bagjumping. It's so plain and simple its just not funny.

Edited by Korrode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Workplace is a better example than cave or forest, because the caves in EL are our characters work places.

 

Everyone shares these work places, we go out to them and do work to make money.

 

I dont see how the analogy of people working for the same company, in the same workplace, to all make money, and one or more of those people stealing money from the others, isn't the best analogy for this situation.

 

 

...and basically; just read ttl's post. Anyone who is pro HB jumping is pro Bagjumping in general.

You didnt make the bag, the contents arent yours. If you take them, your bagjumping. It's so plain and simple its just not funny.

 

Hmmm ... the working places in EL are the storages ... and the caves and forests are like the caves and forests in rl ... If you are leaving something hidden in a bush or in little hole in a cliff, if it is discovered it is likely taken away from there...this is the same as hyper bags...

 

Troger

League of Groovy Gentlemen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, in RL, you go out to caves and forests and sit down and make products to sell for money, do you?

 

I also notice a lack of rebuttal to this point:

...and basically; just read ttl's post. Anyone who is pro HB jumping is pro Bagjumping in general.

You didnt make the bag, the contents arent yours. If you take them, your bagjumping. It's so plain and simple its just not funny.

Edited by Korrode

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the working places in EL are the storages

you think the only places are storages? thats like saying RL only exists in the city

and the caves and forests are like the caves and forests in rl

agree, but thats off topic, we're talking about ore mines, not wolf spawns

If you are leaving something hidden in a bush or in little hole in a cliff, if it is discovered it is likely taken away from there...this is the same as hyper bags...

farmers leave fields of crops lying round, does this give you the right to go and harvest it for yourself?

 

 

i never search for hyper bags, in fact if i have one of my own on the same spot as someone elses i go back to storage when im done to get an extra key to lock up what wasnt mine (i always have contents recorded). this is because i know a real person sat in that mine for hours, and if it gets lost then a real human being is going to be upset.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, in RL, you go out to caves and forests and sit down and make products to sell for money, do you?

 

I also notice a lack of rebuttal to this point:

...and basically; just read ttl's post. Anyone who is pro HB jumping is pro Bagjumping in general.

You didnt make the bag, the contents arent yours. If you take them, your bagjumping. It's so plain and simple its just not funny.

 

Funny how you're putting words in his mouth..

 

Anyhow. I read that edit of yours and lol.. I totally don't agree.

 

Bagjumping will, in most cases I suppose, happen because the person owning a bag has an "accident" of some sort, e.g.: hits a teleport nexus, gets teamed by too many creatures at once.

And someone shall jump it and it's bagjumping, I agree.

 

HB jumping, I don't agree on you saying that it's the same as bagjumping. Because, you WILLINGLY put your bag right into the open, for anyone to find and loot. It's kinda like a hide-and-seek contest.

 

 

And treasure hunting takes effort, seeing a bag poof up when someone dies and walking on it doesn't. I really think that you got no right to cry. Not a single bit. You know the risks, you take them and then cry when you see it got taken by someone else.. No, no, no. Ffs, that's not how it goes, you know darn well some people out there enjoy treasure hunting and will try to find your bag and snatch it.

 

I'd say live with it. Also, I remember there was something about a spell to tell you a HB was near or not. I'm not quite sure what ever happened to that idea tho. But, for all the people crying, I'd like to see it put in, would be fun. :D

 

Lastly, how much fun would it be if we were all goodie-two-shoes? Much fun right.. no more excitement.

Never a risk to lose stuff anymore, everyone is being ever so kind and good to all. If that is how you want this community, you sicken me.

 

-Blee

 

EDIT: Feel free to talk to me ingame about this.

Edited by BleedingSoul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you drop something, you lose your title of "owning" it. Sure, the person who finds it has found something that isnt his/hers, but its free game.

 

This is different then a DB, or a bag your working on, and you hit a tele. Reason? You abandoned it, sure you'll come back, but uselly not for a while.

It's like leaving a open bag of quartz, iron and etc.. in CC while you head to storage for more FPS. You really cant get mad if someone takes it, you left it and was just hopeing no one would take it.

While with a DB, I'm sure you didnt purposely die...

 

My 2/4's of a cent. :D

 

~kGn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×