Entropy Report post Posted August 27, 2007 Just heard about it: http://www.gameriot.com/blogs/Aleph/WoW-at...reads/#comments And this is how to do it: http://www.wowbootybay.com/crash-wow-server.html So the bug is simple, just check to see if the player logged out or not. Most likely would take just minutes to fix. On the other hand, I found and fixed the "trade items dissapearing" bug in 30 minutes, and tomorrow or later tonight it will be fixed on the main server as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted August 27, 2007 Why are you so obsessed with WoW? And you can be proud on the point that you can fix bugs in 30 minutes in EL, but there is no way to compare a one man business like EL with a game where 100s of people are working at, and millions of people playing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crusadingknight Report post Posted August 27, 2007 (edited) Wow, that is quite the stupid bug they have there, invalid pointer reference from the looks of it. Of course, the whole reason it probably hasn't been patched is that they are no more prepared to an unplanned multi-server rollout than EL would be on their scale. (I can't even begin to imagine how many servers they must have, given that even a multicast proxy usually maxes out at about 8000 connections...) Hence the fact that WoW maintenance is always planned in advance. EDIT: Of course, it could be an architectural problem, which in an OO system means there could be a _lot_ of refactoring involved. Edited August 27, 2007 by crusadingknight Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted August 27, 2007 Why are you so obsessed with WoW? What makes you think I am? And you can be proud on the point that you can fix bugs in 30 minutes in EL, but there is no way to compare a one man business like EL with a game where 100s of people are working at, and millions of people playing it. Really? They make maybe around 75-100M a month. With that money, I am sure they can hire a few people that do nothing but sit on their asses (in 3 shifts) and when something like this happens, fix it in the shortest possible time. My point was that we give better support and response time than many big companies (with lots of $$$) do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strider8 Report post Posted August 28, 2007 (edited) [My point was that we give better support and response time than many big companies (with lots of $$$) do.] Yeah thats right cause bigger companies dont care about the ppl playing since they are already raking in so much money, they can afford to take their time. Edited August 28, 2007 by strider8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stricken Report post Posted August 28, 2007 ebul entropy :> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SinS Report post Posted August 28, 2007 Ent is teh pr0 haXor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sirdan Report post Posted August 28, 2007 i was playing on my server and dident have any trouble... i guess nobody on mine knows how to do it. but yeah WoW people dont give a shit about the customers they just see them as money not people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infamous Report post Posted August 28, 2007 haven't had any trouble on the server i play on either Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agis29 Report post Posted August 28, 2007 (edited) I had many problems in the wow server i am playing. I am not sure that so many programmers are working for them. They have a system in game were players can report a map bug automatically. For example you stuck in a map and u use a mod ticket or however this is called to beam you. This action sends automatically a report to the debugging team with map and coords. In the next patch they are checking the reports and they fix the bugs. Forget the community spirit there. I don't even know the players of my own guild lol Edited August 28, 2007 by agis29 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placid Report post Posted August 28, 2007 My point was that we give better support and response time than many big companies (with lots of $$$) do. I would've thought the only real difference between you and Blizzard is the mountain of bureaucracy they have to go through to get an update signed off and released. Not to mention the fact that their update affects thousands of servers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
majestyk Report post Posted August 28, 2007 [My point was that we give better support and response time than many big companies (with lots of $$$) do.] Yeah thats right cause bigger companies dont care about the ppl playing since they are already raking in so much money, they can afford to take their time. That's a misconception I have heard a lot of times. I experienced how it is like to work for a company growing from 15 people to well over 100, and still growing. The attitude towards customers doesn't change at all, the reality is that the sheer size of a company influences the response times. In the beginning, there were maybe 2 or 3 people involved from the point where a bug was reported, reproduced, fixed, scheduled and delivered. It was clear right from the start who was responsible for a problem in a certain part of the product, so he got the report, could start to reproduce and fix it, judge the severity, talk with one superior to discuss scheduling, problem solved. Nowadays, there are more than 3 _teams_ of people involved, countless bug reports come in every day so you need a team to check them, classify, try to reproduce. Only then it is forwarded to the development team, which is a scarce resource (they usually have busy plans reaching months ahead), so it has to be scheduled according to priority between other (probably also high priority) issues. Depending on complexity and priority of the issue, things must be moved around which does probably affect corporate schedules, so a decision has to be made by higher-ups. Due to increasing complexity of the whole product, the vast customer base and their used hard-/software combinations, and the problems which would arise if the fix introduces another problem, the consequential testing effort done by the quality assurance is much higher and takes a lot longer. To summarize: you simply can't compare this. Comparing the response times of a 2-person development team with 1 product used by 700 users to a product developed by hundreds, used by millions is like comparing fixing your daughter's bike with fixing a problem in a Boing 747 passenger plane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted August 28, 2007 If it's just a bug fix update, especially for such a critical bug, I would assume that there is less bureaucracy than for an update which adds new features. And I would assume they already have some system in place to automatically update all their servers, I don't think they have to do it manually for each server . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted August 28, 2007 Why are you so obsessed with WoW? What makes you think I am? I can remember some posts here and on your blog where you were talking how great you are in fixing stuff and how bad they are doing. Anyway, I think majestyk explains very well what I meant in my first post. It probably takes some time before they find the right people to fix it, there might be other bugs around that they wanted to fix first, then when the patch is ready they need to give it to the team that does the server maintenance, probably they only want to update on fixed times and you can go on and on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperion Report post Posted August 28, 2007 If it's just a bug fix update, especially for such a critical bug, I would assume that there is less bureaucracy than for an update which adds new features.And I would assume they already have some system in place to automatically update all their servers, I don't think they have to do it manually for each server . they do. but the problem with blizzard is they are lazy. whenever you call customer support they first put you on hold for 30M then you talk to some nerd that redirects you and you have to wait 30M again and then you get another nerd who knows a bit but can't help the problem then you get redirected to the one that can solve the problem after another minute of waiting and finally you still didn't achive anything. besides they don't do updates out of no where. atleast not during the daytime. the server I play on (1 of the 300 in europe) they only do emergency updates after 1:00 GMT. I have never seen an update in the middle of the day yet. theres tomany ppl playing at those time as it is their peak times. but anyways I've played WoW for a year (stopped last month) I must say I enjoy playing it cause you play with a guild and just like in EL you get a bunch of noobs having fun.(team based dungeons for example) other then that WoW @ solo is boring and the customer support is crap aswell. as proven again with this goddam bug. wich as ent said shouldn't take to long to fix. but maybe ent is a super programmer that can solve any problem in 30minutes:P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agis29 Report post Posted August 28, 2007 Well i saw 2 emergency updates in anachronos server and venture co server during daytime. There was a message that some servers are down for maintenance. What i never understood is how they make it possible from players from different servers to play in the same pk ground (without lag) Anyway if el is beta, wow sometimes reminds me an alpha version of a buggy program But i have to admit that game play is fantastic there. Anyway better to compare el with wow instead of runescape. That will make the game better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mugwump Report post Posted August 28, 2007 Proof that the bigger they come, the harder they fall! This event reminded me of the popular webcomic The Noob, a satire on the adventures of players and developers of the MMORPG 'ClicheQuest'. I hadn't checked in for some time, and looking just now it turns out the current story line for the past month or so seems to uncannily parallel the situation at WoW. Hmm....... Ent, promise you won't let EL get that massive! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wynand Report post Posted August 28, 2007 Why are you so obsessed with WoW? What makes you think I am? I can remember some posts here and on your blog where you were talking how great you are in fixing stuff and how bad they are doing. Anyway, I think majestyk explains very well what I meant in my first post. It probably takes some time before they find the right people to fix it, there might be other bugs around that they wanted to fix first, then when the patch is ready they need to give it to the team that does the server maintenance, probably they only want to update on fixed times and you can go on and on. blah, blah, blah... all that matters is Radu pwns and WoW dev's suckz0rs, are lazy and overpaid, kk? lol Lets assemble a strikeforce to burn down WoW's headquarters Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placid Report post Posted August 28, 2007 If it's just a bug fix update, especially for such a critical bug, I would assume that there is less bureaucracy than for an update which adds new features. And I would assume they already have some system in place to automatically update all their servers, I don't think they have to do it manually for each server . I'd be very surprised if their bureaucracy didn't involve the same procedures regardless of the bug. As majestyk explains well above, the issue is the size of the company. I to have worked in large and small companies as a contractor, and the layers of bureaucracy do not only vary in their size, but in their usefulness. The company I work for at present has a very large site that is visited by thousands daily. There are at least three departments/layers I can think of that a new feature goes through (business department, product authority [approval/denial of feature/fix], my immediate manager) before it reaches me. Each having their say on what goes ahead, and more importantly - when it happens. And of course, they most certainly do have automated patching for their servers, but this requires personnel on both sides of the servers. An interesting topic, anyhow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted August 28, 2007 I can remember some posts here and on your blog where you were talking how great you are in fixing stuff and how bad they are doing. Reading some news and making some remarks every once in a while about your competition does not mean you are obsessed, yes? Anyway, the point is, we have a faster response time than they do, regardless of the reasons, which is a good thing. It's the same with the small, familly owned and operated stores, vs. the big stores such as Walmart. You usually get better service at the smaller stores. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicky Report post Posted August 28, 2007 Nothing wrong with being obsessed about the gaming industry, takes a quarter-lifetime of dedication to learn the technology and be able to apply it, and watching others who live in the same industry have thier realms crash to the ground is certainly worth pointing your fingers at. ah-ha! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizzy Report post Posted August 28, 2007 I couldn't agree with you more Entropy. Two of the biggest draws for me to EL, is both its player base, and its "multi-platformis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wexy Report post Posted August 29, 2007 Ugh well, that's like comparing maintanance of Hello world program and Office package. Playing WoW for nearly 4 months never had an issue with it. And as far as customer support goes, well, let's just say I haven't heard of anyone getting banned from WoW for saying something is wrong with the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted August 29, 2007 Well, of course you won't SEE people getting banned for that. They usually delete all the evidence that it happens. And FYI, I heard about people getting banned for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted August 29, 2007 (edited) Well, of course you won't SEE people getting banned for that. They usually delete all the evidence that it happens. lol, that's bullshit, maybe they do on their own forum. But there are tons of other forums around where people can post. Afaik I never heared about other people getting banned because they say something is bad or ask stupid questions on a forum. Edited August 29, 2007 by Cycloonx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
