EMP weapon

[jamincollins]

Well, obviously, if I were to implement it, I would have worked the details so that a 300 gc item will not destroy a 300K item (not likely, that is).

What I wanted to know was if players would like the idea of such an item, and if they did, we would have worked out the details.

Problem is without some general idea (ballpark figures) people are normally reluctant to go for a potentially negative item such as this or the NMT change. Additionally, while it may be an obvious item for you and some others that the details would need to be worked out, it may not be for others. So, rather than risking it, they will simply assume the worst and vote that way.

 

Perhaps in the future you could give a few more voting options, like: Yes, Need more details, No. I think this would give you a better picture of those that are really for/against and those that are undecided. Giving just two options forces people into one camp or the other.

[Lexi]

well, maybe u should tell the details when u first made the post, because i voted at the beginning of this topic and when i saw : destroy magical item, i said no straight away.. but i saw some interesting ideas such as disabling the magical effects of some swords and armors, and those ideas are kinda cool except for the rosto =(

 

This is exactly why I always wait for other opinions/ideas before I vote on something like this.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Lexi

[Entropy]

Problem is without some general idea (ballpark figures) people are normally reluctant to go for a potentially negative item such as this or the NMT change. Additionally, while it may be an obvious item for you and some others that the details would need to be worked out, it may not be for others. So, rather than risking it, they will simply assume the worst and vote that way.

 

Perhaps in the future you could give a few more voting options, like: Yes, Need more details, No. I think this would give you a better picture of those that are really for/against and those that are undecided. Giving just two options forces people into one camp or the other.

 

I told how the item will function, and that it won't be too easy to destroy a rotsogol, let alone a NMT. The only thing I didn't say was the chances, because this needs some testings and adjustments.

What I had in mind was something like 1/200 chance to destroy a rosto per person, and 1/5K to destroy a NMT or thermal serpent, with about 1/1K to destroy a night vision equipment. Again, those rates were just for the start, and had to be adjusted with time.

[shallara]

With all due respect... and them some.

There are many players on these forums that rarely offer unsolicited advice, and the posts they make on these opinion polls are nearly always well thought out, with none of the reaction you so dislike.

 

Entropy, you could still get prospected player opinion on possible items, without dealing with the nonsense you hate so very much.

Hand pick a group of current players whose opinions you respect as being fair. People you can trust not to give you the BS that derails every topic.

People that will think of the tweaks and possibilities, and, taking YOUR wants and ideas into consideration, be able to come up with a balanced final item for your approval. Make a separate private section of the forum (like bot-owners) for this community players team for you to present your thoughts and ideas to them without the automatic judgement you get from some here.

I apologize if this is out of line, just a suggestion to hopefully meet the wants of all parties.

[Chosen]

I don't see why people are here bitching about this?

 

I think it will increase the reason to PK, and maybe add that little risk, but without risk, you get no gain, right? It's simple, people will PK, and just not take there NMT Capes, thats np, cos you use Mirror/Red/BP Capes when PK'ing. It just gives you that chance of when you use it, you may get a nice drop of some Armours/COL or something, how is that a bad thing?

 

Also, this is just a suggestion, Ent, maybe make the red cape block it? As it does with Brod and other weapons, this will still be removing GC from the game, and it will make people PK more.

 

Thats just what I think anyways.

 

 

#Edit - Sorry if it's out of line in anyways, I'm just here posting from a PK point of view.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Chosen

[Scorpius]

I don't see why people are here bitching about this?

 

I think it will increase the reason to PK, and maybe add that little risk, but without risk, you get no gain, right? It's simple, people will PK, and just not take there NMT Capes, thats np, cos you use Mirror/Red/BP Capes when PK'ing. It just gives you that chance of when you use it, you may get a nice drop of some Armours/COL or something, how is that a bad thing?

 

Also, this is just a suggestion, Ent, maybe make the red cape block it? As it does with Brod and other weapons, this will still be removing GC from the game, and it will make people PK more.

 

Thats just what I think anyways.

 

 

#Edit - Sorry if it's out of line in anyways, I'm just here posting from a PK point of view.

 

am i the only person who, if he pks at all, only pks for fun and not for the drops? i think you should get this

into your oppinion as well. if someone drops to me its just a nice extra but i dont need to have it.

[scarr]

I am surprised that people has already formed a strong opinion without knowing:

1. what the chances of having an item dissolved are (if they are tiny, the risk is negligible)
   
2. how rapidly the effect weakens with distance (it it decays quickly, the EMP would only be effective if practically engaged)
   
3. which ingredients and which engineering level will be needed to manufacture it (if it requires as ingredients items that can only be obtained by fighters, there would be an economic loop)
   
4. how many of these devices can be expected to be around at any given moment, considering that they disappear with each use
   

Lacking this info, I would suspend judgement. I think however that PKing should be a risky job, whereas using NMT+rosto the risk is next to 0 (I am talking about risk, not cost), so adding some "spice" could be nice. However, it all depends on the numbers above, if these are "wrong", the whole business might turn out to be detrimental...

 

Amen to that.

In fact, I don't even know why the hell I made this poll, I expected a reaction like this.

People don't ask for details, and have no clue about things, but they are, of course, experts.

They complain how the PK is so dead, but this thing would ruin the PK.. Like killing something that is dead already.

Let's just say that I am very dissapointed with most people's posts and votes here, and next time I'll want to do something I'll just do it anyway, and those who don't like the changes can either adapt or go play some other game.

no offence but u make a poll to ask opinions right ? u can expect negative reactions obviously

[Peach]

I don't see why people are here bitching about this?

 

I think it will increase the reason to PK, and maybe add that little risk, but without risk, you get no gain, right? It's simple, people will PK, and just not take there NMT Capes, thats np, cos you use Mirror/Red/BP Capes when PK'ing. It just gives you that chance of when you use it, you may get a nice drop of some Armours/COL or something, how is that a bad thing?

 

Also, this is just a suggestion, Ent, maybe make the red cape block it? As it does with Brod and other weapons, this will still be removing GC from the game, and it will make people PK more.

 

Thats just what I think anyways.

 

 

#Edit - Sorry if it's out of line in anyways, I'm just here posting from a PK point of view.

 

am i the only person who, if he pks at all, only pks for fun and not for the drops? i think you should get this

into your oppinion as well. if someone drops to me its just a nice extra but i dont need to have it.

most ppl pk foir fun, but while they have fun, they pray for drops

in my case, i sometimes pk for fun ( non drop days ) or i pk for stuff, make lose rostos to my enemies:)

[jamincollins]

I told how the item will function, and that it won't be too easy to destroy a rotsogol, let alone a NMT. The only thing I didn't say was the chances, because this needs some testings and adjustments.

However, without example numbers some would take this to mean 1/10 for rosto and 1/100 for NMT or some other just as ludicrous numbers. Giving us some idea of where you're starting from gives us some potentially useful perspective on the proposal.

 

What I had in mind was something like 1/200 chance to destroy a rosto per person, and 1/5K to destroy a NMT or thermal serpent, with about 1/1K to destroy a night vision equipment. Again, those rates were just for the start, and had to be adjusted with time.

I'm assuming these are for ground zero with the rates becoming less and less likely the farther you are from ground zero, as you indicated in your initial post. Personally, if it were implemented I would like to see it less likely to work than a successful attack to do the same, even at ground zero.

[robotbob]

 

Entropy, you could still get prospected player opinion on possible items, without dealing with the nonsense you hate so very much.

Hand pick a group of current players whose opinions you respect as being fair. People you can trust not to give you the BS that derails every topic.

People that will think of the tweaks and possibilities, and, taking YOUR wants and ideas into consideration, be able to come up with a balanced final item for your approval. Make a separate private section of the forum (like bot-owners) for this community players team for you to present your thoughts and ideas to them without the automatic judgement you get from some here.

I apologize if this is out of line, just a suggestion to hopefully meet the wants of all parties.

 

Thats is a good idea. Granted I doubt there would ever be an item that won't meet some opposition

Since we are all here for fun, but at some point we all have our own interests in mind. I guess

everyone is afraid of a massive imbalance, but the speed in which all this was posted proves we

all love this game.

[Zamirah]

I would like to see a poll asking if people want an item that destroy their magic items or a higher breakrate for armor in PK.

And maybe take rostos out of game and make so equiped items not are dropped but same chance as now for items in inventory.

So people not loose a rosto = 16k but maybe damage tit greaves = 30k with chance to repair.

Both would take money out of the game.

 

 

The idea that magic items could loose their magic for some time is good.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Zamirah

[shallara]

robotbob - I was more meaning people capable of intelligent brainstorming and coming up with logical effects and impact on economy, pk, and play style, based on Entropy giving a vague idea (or specific).

For instance, he could bring before the group.. "I want to have an item that would go under the engineering skill, be fairly high level, that would negate the magic effects of items, or destroy the magic items themselves. I want the effect to be distance related, similar to a hand grenade, and only usable in PK."

And the group would talk, come up with how they think the main player base would react, specific questions about Entropy's intentions and how they could be addressed, and suggestions for how to implement what Ent wants.

[darky]

I like the idea but with a consideration on how it is implemented.

 

Each cast should have certain chance to destroy item.

This value can be 1 to 100 and based upon the roll let us say you get 75.

Now you have a chance to destroy one of the items upto the roll value of 75.

 

A NMT can have roll value of 95. Least likely too be in second roll. EFE can be at 10. Most likely below the roll value so good candidate.

 

In second roll one item only will be destroyed out of all items selected below roll value

 

Darky

Edited August 15, 2007 by darky

[luciferx]

If this is implemented I will use and abuse it nonstop

[Gohan]

There went my vote.

 

-Blee

[Usl]

What I had in mind was something like 1/200 chance to destroy a rosto per person, and 1/5K to destroy a NMT or thermal serpent, with about 1/1K to destroy a night vision equipment. Again, those rates were just for the start, and had to be adjusted with time.

With those rates, assuming a target player has a rosto (16Kgc), an NMT (400Kgc) and thermal serpent (180Kgc), and ignoring the value of lesser items like rings and such, we get an equivalent value for the device of 196gc. This means that if the device costs more than 200gc, on average it is a loss for those who use it (i.e., they procure more economical damage to themselves than to their opponents), even if it is always used at close range. At 300 gc, it only makes economical sense to use it if on average it affects 1.5 players, at close range, with the outfit described above. And this is not counting any damage to the users of the device, as well as the inconvenience of being killed immediately afterward by the enraged opponents.

 

So, if these are the numbers, PKers have nothing to worry about -- it is just another neat "lottery" item.

Engineers who are desperate for something worth making might enjoy it, though, and I would love to see the eye candy for the 10-square radius blast in the client :-).

[Peach]

If this is implemented I will use and abuse it nonstop

maybe u will forget ur wear ur thermal serp, nmt and full enhanced set or armors and all ur items will get wipped XD

[bkc56]

Hand pick a group of current players whose opinions you respect as being fair. People you can trust not to give you the BS that derails every topic.

I too have long thought there should be a private forum (like the bot-owners forum) with a readership of trusted individuals from various skills/points-of-view who could give well thought out feedback and suggestions to new proposals. Not a forum of yes-men, but people who could give useful feedback or point out issues that may not have been thought about initially.

 

I think it would provide useful input with out the noise/flames found in the general public forums.

[Entropy]

With those rates, assuming a target player has a rosto (16Kgc), an NMT (400Kgc) and thermal serpent (180Kgc), and ignoring the value of lesser items like rings and such, we get an equivalent value for the device of 196gc. This means that if the device costs more than 200gc, on average it is a loss for those who use it (i.e., they procure more economical damage to themselves than to their opponents), even if it is always used at close range. At 300 gc, it only makes economical sense to use it if on average it affects 1.5 players, at close range, with the outfit described above. And this is not counting any damage to the users of the device, as well as the inconvenience of being killed immediately afterward by the enraged opponents.

 

So, if these are the numbers, PKers have nothing to worry about -- it is just another neat "lottery" item.

Engineers who are desperate for something worth making might enjoy it, though, and I would love to see the eye candy for the 10-square radius blast in the client :-).

 

Well, that was the idea.

I have no clue why people assumed that a 300gc item will destroy (or have a very high chance to destroy) a 300Kgc item; would have made no sense and would have damaged the game. I guess people don't have much faith in my ability to design a good MMO, which is ironic.

 

Entropy, you could still get prospected player opinion on possible items, without dealing with the nonsense you hate so very much.

Hand pick a group of current players whose opinions you respect as being fair. People you can trust not to give you the BS that derails every topic.

People that will think of the tweaks and possibilities, and, taking YOUR wants and ideas into consideration, be able to come up with a balanced final item for your approval. Make a separate private section of the forum (like bot-owners) for this community players team for you to present your thoughts and ideas to them without the automatic judgement you get from some here.

I apologize if this is out of line, just a suggestion to hopefully meet the wants of all parties.

 

There were some previous attempts to do that (some EL council), but for various reasons it didn't work.

The idea was to have all the players in a trade (alchemy, mages, summoners, PKers, etc.) vote for a representative which would vote for them all on important decisions.

[mufossa]

im just worried that pk will be nothing more then a few people running around naked with an inventory full of rings looking to break other peoples stuff....i think thermal serps will become nothing more then storage decoration..along with other things..... i think this will hurt pk not help..

 

Btw this wont hurt me i will actually enjoy it, ill create a noob harvest lilacs and buy tons of rings and run in kf invisible and click rings on people like crazy

Edited August 15, 2007 by mufossa

[luciferx]

im just worried that pk will be nothing more then a few people running around naked with an inventory full of rings looking to break other peoples stuff....

 

LOL, Not just rings, i plan to just pk in leather and a orc slayer and BROD and my plan is to use tigers nonstop so people Can NOT dissengage combat and i will hit that ring as i branch them

 

if people are gonna use it on me im sure gonna use it on them to a point that I deserve them to use it on me.

Edited August 15, 2007 by LuciferX

[sufi]

Entropy, you could still get prospected player opinion on possible items, without dealing with the nonsense you hate so very much.

Hand pick a group of current players whose opinions you respect as being fair. People you can trust not to give you the BS that derails every topic.

People that will think of the tweaks and possibilities, and, taking YOUR wants and ideas into consideration, be able to come up with a balanced final item for your approval. Make a separate private section of the forum (like bot-owners) for this community players team for you to present your thoughts and ideas to them without the automatic judgement you get from some here.

I apologize if this is out of line, just a suggestion to hopefully meet the wants of all parties.

 

There were some previous attempts to do that (some EL council), but for various reasons it didn't work.

The idea was to have all the players in a trade (alchemy, mages, summoners, PKers, etc.) vote for a representative which would vote for them all on important decisions.

 

I still think Shallara's idea is the best, if you are indeed intent on gauging player opinion, which as you mention, is an advantage that EL has over other games. I'm not sure having the player base vote on representatives is the best way to select these "council" members, but a private forum with 20 or so such "council" members for feedback seems very attractive...and the idea to include all trades is very important as well. I don't know why it didn't succeed earlier, but perhaps re-thinking it may be in order?

[darky]

Well what you are saying is possible but at investment needed to destroy a thermal serp (I guess around several 100k gc) not many will be able try or be successful at that.

-Darky

Edited August 15, 2007 by darky

[mufossa]

Well what you are saying is possible but at investment needed to destroy a thermal serp (I guess around several 100k gc) not many will be able try or be successful at that.

-Darky

hmm and if u r unlucky the first ring you click will break ure thermal and nmt in one shot...dont tellme this is impossible cous i know there is a chance

[bkc56]

The idea was to have all the players in a trade (alchemy, mages, summoners, PKers, etc.) vote for a representative which would vote for them all on important decisions.

I won't speak for others, but I wasn't thinking of any sort of voting body. Just an group of trusted players who could provide feedback on new ideas. Nothing binding, just an opportunity to get some additional input without the noise/flames that are often found in the public forums.