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CelticLady

Recycling Skill

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First off, yes, I did several searches and I know this topic has been brought up in the past. However, the threads that I read were mostly geared towards making this part of manufacturing and I propose that it be a skill of its own. I also found this thread but it deals with adding a third state (broken) to steel/ti plates and great swords so it’s also different.

 

Now, a warning, this is a long post and I tend to ramble so please read everything before you comment.

 

My idea is to add recycling as a separate skill. Both new and degraded (used/second hand) items could be recycled. A new item would yield more materials than a degraded one. Here is an example:

To manu a titanium chain requires the following:

3 Leathers

14 Titanium Bars

6 Threads

10 Fire Essences

1 Enriched Fire Essence

 

Recycling a new titanium chain would yield:

2 Leather

12 Titanium Bars

4 Thread

 

And would need 10 Fire Essence plus a tool (recycling hammer, tongs or similar) that would be bought from NPC.

 

Yup, that’s correct, you wouldn’t get the EFE back. However, like with rare makes of steel/ti plates, great swords, essences, etc. there would be rare recycles in which you would get all materials back. This would only pertain to items in new condition, not used/degraded/second hand items.

 

Recycling a second hand (used/degraded) titanium chain would yield:

1 Leather

10 Titanium Bars

2 Thread

 

You would still need the same tool but perhaps only 8 Fire Essence for this one.

 

It is damaged in some way, so you wouldn’t be able to get as much back as if the chain were freshly made, and certainly not be able to get all the ingredients back.

 

As for knowledge, it would need a full range of books.

Knowledge of General Recycling

Generic Headgear Recycling

Leather Helm Recycling

Iron Helm Recycling

Steel Helm Recycling

Titanium Helm Recycling

Etc. as an example.

 

How about Nexus? Well, it could go along the lines of Artificial Nexus, however, why not have a new Nexus? *gasp* Perhaps call it Material. Artificial is becoming so widely used that it makes it too easy to be an all arounder, IMO. A new Nexus would help spread it out more.

 

Recommended Level: How about setting the rec. level at the same or just a bit higher than the rec. level to manu the item? Sounds fair to me. If you critical fail then you lose the item, just like a critical fail when making something.

 

How might this skill impact the economy? As I see it, there probably would be a decrease in the Tankel/Heavybeard money sink. However, the sales of the books and new tool could help to balance that to an extent. I’m not sure how much gc they pull out of the game, so I don’t know if the book/tool sales would balance that or not. Some people would still choose to try and fix degraded items instead of recycle them, I would think. Opinions on this? Personally, I don’t think this would cause a problem with the sale of bars. In general I find that I can’t buy enough bars to fill my needs most of the time. As for leather and thread as a sink, that could be an issue as well since you would be getting some of them back.

 

I’m sure I have forgotten some aspects of outlining a skill so fire away and point out what I missed. If you don’t like the idea, or certain parts of it, please offer constructive criticism. ie. Please give a reason(s) why you don’t like something and if possible, offer alternatives. Also, if you do like it, please state why.

 

If this idea has been completely shot down before and stated that it will not be added as a skill then please lock this thread. I tried to search extensively and found no such statements, nor did I find anything similar to my outline. I’m sorry if it has been suggested this way and I missed it.

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I think the idea of recycling is really nice (and nice work there CL, I'd add thread to not be recoverable by recycling as well though along with essences that is), however, I don't think we need a new skill for it. So I see two options: if you want to add this feature:

*) Add it under engineering, that's generic enough to cover it

*) Add it under manufacturing, skill to recycle would be slightly less than to make, after all anybody can take stuff apart w/o knowing how the hell it goes back together. However manufacturing already has a lot of different items and a nice learning curve (at least in theory, leather helms are a different story), so I'd be in favor of engineering here.

:lipssealed:

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Isn't item repair supposed to be part of the new engineering skill (Or is this just a rumor)

 

And if repair becomes part of engineering [...] how is taking a "new" item and

turning it into "less" ingredients, a good thing?

 

I guess I'm just confused. :lipssealed:

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I am 99% sure that Entropy stated that Repair will not be part of Engineering but may be added under another skill at a later time. If I can find the thread or where I saw it, I will post the link.

 

EDIT: I just did a few searches and I can't find a post about it. Perhaps I am remembering wrong.

Edited by CelticLady

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I asked him before, here's the pm:

 

[19:22:42] [PM to radu: hey, I was wondering something .... will we be able to repair items with engineering skill in the future? :wub:]

[19:23:04] [PM from radu: I don't think so. we might have a different skill for that]

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how is taking a "new" item and

turning it into "less" ingredients, a good thing?

If it's new, as in time, and you just made it... The only point would be to get the experience, both in production and in recycling.

On the other hand, think about how many ti longs are sitting in storages gathering dust, thanks to being monster drops for so long... It's not just monster drops, of course, items that made sense for a player to make and use a while ago may not be the best option anymore... And instead of selling, the player may decide to get ingreds back instead.

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@Ermabwed: As we discussed shortly in game, I had thought of adding it to an existing skill but with all the things that could be recycled that would make for one huge amount of things to be done under one skill. And as far as putting it in Engineering, there are still things that haven't been put in yet for that skill. It will fill out in time. Mines, traps, barricades, etc.

 

@Robotbob: As ttlanhil mentioned, there are things like ti long that many people have just sitting in storage. This would be a way to get rid of the excess. It would also give a reason to make some items that currently aren't made much for xp, such as iron chain mail and Iron shield. Most players don't use them and Trik doesn't pay anywhere near what it costs to make them so most players skip making them all together. If they got back more value of ingreds then Trik pays for them then people might make them more instead of them being just another item that isn't made.

 

@Chosen: Perhaps I'm missing something, but how would ti long giving an EFE back make all other swords cost more? I mean, manuers don't make ti longs because they require an EFE to make, but are common drops. So common, that many people have an excess stock of them in storage because NPC doesn't buy them. And as I stated, they wouldn't give back an EFE unless it was a rare recycle in which case you would get all ingreds back.

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how is taking a "new" item and

turning it into "less" ingredients, a good thing?

If it's new, as in time, and you just made it... The only point would be to get the experience, both in production and in recycling.

 

 

I'm not sure I see the logic in this. if the major ingredient(s) are lost in the recycle, why not just make the sword in a school in the first place and get double exp?

 

The only way I can see this being useful is if there is a chance to get any ingred back, maybe with a percentage chance? like maybe 60% chance per item for new, and 40% for used, something like that. This way there is an alternative to taking items to tankel, but otherwise I can't see any reason you would want to gain a few tit bars and scraps of leather for the price of a tit chainmail.

 

What am I missing?

 

as per chosen's post, the chance to get an EFE from tit long would certainly make a difference to sword prices, although whether that is seen as desirable, and whether entropy would like another route for EFE into the game is another matter :wub:

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@sadarar: I used ti chain as an example to illustrate that EFE would not be recycled. If you had a degraded one and didn't want to risk taking it to Tankel and paying him to break it completely then you could choose to goto a Recycler and get 'something' for it.

 

And I still fail to see how having a very low chance of getting an EFE back from a ti long would increase the cost of all other swords as Chosen mentioned. As for a new route of EFE into the game, well, you would be getting rid of EFE by recycling degraded items that required EFE to make them if you chose not to goto Tankel/Heavybeard and pay them to break it.

 

And again, as for why you would recycle a new item, iron chain and iron shield are basically useless to make. If you manu them and then have a recycler tear it apart and give you back some bars then you are partially on your way to make another, or something else for that matter. Trik pays 100gc for an iron chain but it costs ~535gc to make one, no wonder it isn't made. Not to mention, selling items to Trik adds gc to the game, if some items were recycled instead then it would cut the amount added down to some extent.

 

Anyways, perhaps there isn't much call for this. Oh well, it gave me something to think about while I was at work this morning :wub:

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My opinion is that tit longs shouldn't require an efe to manu them.

Maybe serp stones but not an efe for sure.

 

Don't mean anything if EFE or serp stones, people have hundredes in their storages if they trained cyclops or mchims.

Impossible to sell. So why make them ?

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EFE in titanium longs has been discussed many times, still I haven't seen any changes in there, imo it's a minor game issue, nothing crucial, but still, i would replace EFE for per say 50 FE? But this is getting little offtopic. Recycling skill is an interesting idea, however, it can be "exploited" in repeatedly constructing and deconstructing things for xp, at less cost than creating new items.

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I like the idea of recycling and have in fact discussed it with a few friends as well. I have not thought it through to the same level as detail as CL did, but I was also thinking about recyclling swords. Iron broad swords, for example, don't have much of a use in the game (as far as my limited knowledge on weapons goes), but ogres drop them somewhat frequently. I already have iron and steel smelting knowledge, so why shouldn't I be able to smelt the swords and get back something? Maybe not exactly nice and neat iron or steel bars, but how about ore? Same for rings. You should be able to smelt rings and get back the polished gems and a portion of the gold or silver ore. I definitely think the idea of recycling is valuable and should be developed a bit more.

lilbear

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@sadarar: I used ti chain as an example to illustrate that EFE would not be recycled. If you had a degraded one and didn't want to risk taking it to Tankel and paying him to break it completely then you could choose to goto a Recycler and get 'something' for it.

 

Fair enough, but the same logic applies to many things, all iron plate armor for starters. Also would "special" bars like hydro and wolfram be returned? Taking the expensive ingredients out of the returned items makes it IMO a pointless excercise, although this is purely my own viewpoint, it may well be that there is more to it than I see. Additionally, if taken to it's conclusion, and the metal bars in turn can be recycled, I can see problems with the economy whereby the only way to raise gc from scratch is to harvest lupines/lilacs, since the market for coal, metal ores etc is decimated.

 

To be honest, all I see is a few raw ingredients at a very high price.

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along those same types of lines... if you can smelt or recycle a sword down to partial ingreds or ore... why not be able to take an iron sword, add some bars and fe's, and get an iron broad? or take an iron broad, smelt it down some (or something) and get a regular iron sword? Yes, it would complicate the game, and the weapons skills, and strategy and leveling and most likely take quite a lot of effort on the part of the developers to incorporate all the different facets this subject would lead to. Bottom line is, if the result is worth the effort, and that is up to Teh Powers That Be to determine :D

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To be honest, all I see is a few raw ingredients at a very high price.

Sadly i see it too =/

Of coz it would give some skill exp but if the recycler would not give back the equivalent of good tit chain to fighter noone from fighters would be using that services to recycle tit chains :D

So idea isnt bad but if its less profitable than tankel's services no1 will use that unless for exp.

 

mp

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Okay, here is a little insight into what made me think of this. I understand that most new items wouldn't be recycled. But some would. Ti long, iron chain etc. This would more so be used for degraded/second hand stuff. I, personally, really dislike taking things to Tankel/Heavybeard because they break my stuff so often. Anymore, when I degrade a CoL I have one person I PM and then sell it to him. I use the gc to get any ingreds I don't already have and then have another made because I don't even want to try my luck with Tankel. If one had the option to recycle that CoL then some people would do it, I think. When it comes to new items, as in iron chain, they aren't even made to any measurable degree. You can buy one from the NPC for 200gc iirc and it cost more than twice that to make it. If you could recycle it then perhaps it would be made.

 

I dunno, maybe some recipe tweaking would help with getting things made to an extent and excess out of the game. I had read about some interest on having something like this and it sounded like a good idea to me. So, during my hours of driving I just tried to brainstorm.

 

I don't think that getting some bars back would be terrible for the raw materials industry, 'cause as I said previously, I can rarely ever buy enough to meet my needs as it is.

 

Also note, I suggested a new Nexus be needed for this. With how 'precious' our pickpoints are to us, I think a lot of people would choose not to 'waste' more on this skill. I doubt every manuer would also be a recycler just so they could tear apart their own stuff and make something else.

 

Anyways, guess what sounded good to me doesn't to most everyone else. We can just let the idea die.

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