Tweak True Sight potions

[LochnessLobster]

I dissagree with the whole idea of changing the ts pots. I very rarely post on the forums but it seems to me this is really just an attempt to free up more fluffy spawns. I also believe that if the ts pots get changed that they will fall into near total dissuse. I know of no one who uses them in order to see invisible players. The pots simply don't last long enough. If you take away a/d reducing side effect then they really have no purpose in the game except to open up more fluffy spawns for those around 80-100 a/d.

[darkguy]

More than half of dp arena fighters use ts to be able to atk so if you really want that arena empty find a way to stop them reduce a/d. The consequences? They will have to go to WS/NC arena where they will get pwned so less ppl will PK see what I mean? Som1 has a/d 41/41 he only passed arena limits with 1 lvl but he is still qualified as a dp arena fighter if he goes in another place he dies. So I totally disagree with this idea.

 

 

I said that the a/d penalty should be increased. From -19 a/d it must be -29 a/d or -39 a/d.

 

@ agis: That means up to a/d 79s can use dp arena with ease... What is the point of adding a 40 a/d limit when people who have 2x a/d come and pk people over there?

[korrode]

You will understand them after a long long time when u ll reach 150 a/d and u will die with 1 hit from Luci and toomass and your items will get degraded at once. Even if they have the same a/d with you.

What exactly is it that u think i dont understand?

How dexterity and reaction work? how might and toughness work? the outcome of a fight with 2 people of the same a/d but with 1 person having 44/108 p/c and the other having 60/152 p/c?

 

As for masterpiter's stats, i understand how they work just fine. his a/d makes up for the lower dex/react on fluffs and feros, he still has enough might to do damage to them when he hits cause of high phys, his phys/vit 40/20 gives him enough toughness to train on feros in crap armor...

Again, what exactly do u think i dont understand?

 

All thats pretty much irrelevant to the idea of TS pot failure giving -10 to coord and people no longer being able to lower their a/d for training.

 

You under-estimate my understanding of these things and over-estimate your own.

 

I'm done arguing with you.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Korrode

[agis29]

@ korrode Your answer showed me that u dont understand. You havent realise yet the huge distance between players.

Others do and they are laughing with people that making suggestions to ruin themselvels and benefit strong people.

 

You made another mistake. They wont have only 60/152 p/c. They will have 20 vitality also because they can afford to buy will removal stones while u, me and the rest cant. So u wont be able to bypass their armour.

And even if you reach on yetis after ages they will have more money than you and they will keep buying all removal stones from the market.

Another thing you didnt understand is that u cant "beat" a player that he is spending 400$ for a single removal stone.

In other words its has no meaning to keep training.

[masterpiter]

@Korrode. Look at masterpiter stats. He is 40 def levels higher than me. Because he has low coords he is able to train on fluffies at this level,get good exp using a crappy armour without a col. (i dont have any problem with mp btw-actually i admire players that use their brain).

I dont have to explain anything else if still some people dont get it.

thx for ur admire but:

1)I dont train on fluff/feros/dcw in junk armors w/o a col anymore, i did that to ~130 oa but got pissed off too much coz i lost spawns all the time to players with full tit and col that were in 80's ( they could stay on spawn way longer than me )

2) i get crappy exp, last time i checked it was 210k/h from fluff, so about as much as some1 gets on free tripple ogre spawn in melinis

My friend Oldschool who is in his 80's showed me screen where he made 400k oa exp per hour on a single fluff.

 

As for masterpiter's stats, i understand how they work just fine. his a/d makes up for the lower dex/react on fluffs and feros, he still has enough might to do damage to them when he hits cause of high phys, his phys/vit 40/20 gives him enough toughness to train on feros in crap armor...

I still think i know my stats and how they work better and i asure u i dont use crappy armors lol.

Btw, isnt the topic about something else than masterpiter and his crappy p/c?

 

mp

[Guest ohmygod]

so what do you train, summoned orcs?

[korrode]

I still think i know my stats and how they work better and i asure u i dont use crappy armors lol.

Btw, isnt the topic about something else than masterpiter and his crappy p/c?

 

mp

I thought i saw u very recently on feros in Iron Plate, MP... i consider that "crappy armor"... correct me if i'm wrong.

 

You made another mistake. They wont have only 60/152 p/c.

it was a general example, i realise some of them will have vit, but still, 60 phys + 20 vit = 40 toughness + ~30-45 armor = max of 85 damage absorbed.

44 phys + 108 coord = 76 might + 30 damage from JS = ~106 damage...

so they'd still take some damage, they could just do alot more damage to us and get their hits in easier, i'm not arguing that, never did.

 

They will have 20 vitality also because they can afford to buy will removal stones while u, me and the rest cant.

i have 16 vit as it is

 

But thats all way off topic.

[masterpiter]

I still think i know my stats and how they work better and i asure u i dont use crappy armors lol.

Btw, isnt the topic about something else than masterpiter and his crappy p/c?

 

mp

I thought i saw u very recently on feros in Iron Plate, MP... i consider that "crappy armor"... correct me if i'm wrong.

Ur wrong:

1) i almost dont train on feros these days(maybe 10% of exp i make is on feros now

2) i didnt use iron armors from the time i sold like 40+ sets of them

3) it was probably c_ronaldo who changed his look to exactly same like mines

 

mp

[Sayre]

Another way would be to base experience gained only on real a/d levels and just disregard boost potions altogether when it comes to calculating experience.

Agree...problem solved.

 

It even advantages those taking a/d pots, because they will get more xp than they would otherwise if xp is based on base a/d levels

 

S.

[agis29]

The main problem here is that although buying nexuses was a nice addition to the game it also caused huge distance between players.

A distance that is almost impossible to cover.

I think that a/d training must become important again. Those who enjoy p/c can add p/c and those who enjoy a/d training to keep training.

Think how the game is affected. Will becomes useless,same with instict and reasoning. Negs are not negs anymore. Godless is a gift nowadays.

By removing the a/d penalty from ts pots the distance between players will be huge.

@MP At 150 def, 230k per hour (with 4 will this is pr0 exp.)

Edited August 8, 2007 by agis29

[MagpieLee]

Then replace it with the potion of weakness.

 

At the end of the day, a Potion which has an intention of True Sight is used for its penalties of a/d. Using a potion to weaken one's ad to give more exp is conceptually wrong.

Anyone who fails to see that this is a flawed and skewed are obviously heavily dependant on them.

Why is a negative thing twisted and used positively?

Well I guess this is the style of EL then? "Neg perks" used for the pp gainage? TS potions used for a/d reduction. Its almost the same thing.

 

Sufi may not have the correct solution (here's a suggestion - chance to remove 50 mana , lower perception and rationality ;D) but at least he's on the right track. Its not even the issue about TS pots. The overcrowding of fluffies and the ineffective exp given from higher level monsters also add to this ongoing problem.

Edited August 9, 2007 by MagpieLee

[Guest ohmygod]

Why is a negative thing twisted and used positively?

Mana drain is supposed to be a negative thing too isnt it? Wonder how many hours you spent misusing this spell?

Edited August 10, 2007 by ohmygod

[Peach]

I still think i know my stats and how they work better and i asure u i dont use crappy armors lol.

Btw, isnt the topic about something else than masterpiter and his crappy p/c?

 

mp

I thought i saw u very recently on feros in Iron Plate, MP... i consider that "crappy armor"... correct me if i'm wrong.

Ur wrong:

1) i almost dont train on feros these days(maybe 10% of exp i make is on feros now

2) i didnt use iron armors from the time i sold like 40+ sets of them

3) it was probably c_ronaldo who changed his look to exactly same like mines

 

mp

i hate those who steal ur looks really annoying =(

[agis29]

Why is a negative thing twisted and used positively?

Mana drain is supposed to be a negative thing too isnt it? Wonder how many hours you spent misusing this spell?

[agis29]

Why is a negative thing twisted and used positively?

Mana drain is supposed to be a negative thing too isnt it? Wonder how many hours you spent misusing this spell?

 

1)And how many times we all use a negative thing like shields-plates with accuracy-critical to hit-damage penalties to get more exp,less damage and train more or even pvp more comfortable?

2)PH perk then must be removed cause we can use the ps cloak so np at all

3)Antisocial must be removed cause players can use bots

4)SD perk must be removed also cause we can use rings or tele to rooms so np again if u have this perk

 

If the whole problem with ts pots is justice then yetis-chims-cockatrice should re spawn faster like fluffies cause its not fair.

 

Anyway from your first post i understood that ts pots for you are bad cause you cant kill yeti trainers and a/d penalty is not a real penalty. You agreed that the a/d penalty should be replaced with a coords penalty.

Now you don't like both a/d and coords penalty.

Edited August 10, 2007 by agis29

[Darc0]

...

Now you don't like both a/d and coords penalty.

 

Why should someone like a penalty?

 

 

Another way would be to base experience gained only on real a/d levels and just disregard boost potions altogether when it comes to calculating experience.

 

 

This is the best suggestion I have seen.

 

You shouldn't be able to artificially inflate your XP gain by lowering your effective stats.

[agis29]

...

Now you don't like both a/d and coords penalty.

 

Why should someone like a penalty?

 

Cause his team will score a goal

 

A penalty is antisocial but it provides 10 points.Thats why..

 

And all others negs..

 

You didnt mention a single word for what i said about yetis or neg perks anyway.

I could mention much more reasons but it has no meaning..

[korrode]

If the whole problem with ts pots is justice then yetis-chims-cockatrice should re spawn faster like fluffies cause its not fair.

And here we get to the core of the problem... higher a/d (100+) people really dont want to lose the the extra exp from the current TS pot fail effect cause the higher a/d monsters suck for training.

 

I've said it before, i'll say it again;

As monsters a/d goes up so must their health.

Unless their health is increased dramatically, the re-spawn time of all monsters must be the same.

 

Fluffy: 250 health (no change)

 

D.Chim and Fero: 275-300 health (no change for fero, or change fero health to 250 so fluff, d.chim and fero are all 250 health)

 

F.Chim: 300-325 health and lower armor/toughness

 

M.Chim: 325-350 health

 

And re-spawn time of all above listed monsters has to be the same.

 

These changes to the high level monsters make utterly complete and logical sense, imo.

It will get all those monsters regularly used in training and would also help to level out the PK fields a little as people will slowly move up their p/c with their a/d, rather than keeping it low for fluff/fero then dropping mass pp's for yeti.

 

 

That probably all seems a little off topic but i truly dont believe it is... i think it actually attacks the core of the problem, making these changes should remove the want for the TS pot fail effect.

Why would i TS my a/d if i could just move up to a monster that has more health, gives more exp and allows me to have higher p/c?!

 

 

Another way would be to base experience gained only on real a/d levels and just disregard boost potions altogether when it comes to calculating experience.

This is the best suggestion I have seen.

 

You shouldn't be able to artificially inflate your XP gain by lowering your effective stats.

I agree, this is a good idea.

[agis29]

If the whole problem with ts pots is justice then yetis-chims-cockatrice should re spawn faster like fluffies cause its not fair.

And here we get to the core of the problem... higher a/d (100+) people really dont want to lose the the extra exp from the current TS pot fail effect cause the higher a/d monsters suck for training.

 

I've said it before, i'll say it again;

As monsters a/d goes up so must their health.

Unless their health is increased dramatically, the re-spawn time of all monsters must be the same.

 

Fluffy: 250 health (no change)

 

D.Chim and Fero: 275-300 health (no change for fero, or change fero health to 250 so fluff, d.chim and fero are all 250 health)

 

F.Chim: 300-325 health and lower armor/toughness

 

M.Chim: 325-350 health

 

And re-spawn time of all above listed monsters has to be the same.

 

These changes to the high level monsters make utterly complete and logical sense, imo.

It will get all those monsters regularly used in training and would also help to level out the PK fields a little as people will slowly move up their p/c with their a/d, rather than keeping it low for fluff/fero then dropping mass pp's for yeti.

 

I agree with most of the things you said. My opinion is that feros should have a higher def cause many weak people can train on them, Feros are weaker than fluffies. +5 def for feros would be fine. Also high material points doesn't always mean better exp. Check yetis to see it.

 

 

That probably all seems a little off topic but i truly dont believe it is... i think it actually attacks the core of the problem, making these changes should remove the want for the TS pot fail effect.

Why would i TS my a/d if i could just move up to a monster that has more health, gives more exp and allows me to have higher p/c?!

 

 

Another way would be to base experience gained only on real a/d levels and just disregard boost potions altogether when it comes to calculating experience.

This is the best suggestion I have seen.

 

You shouldn't be able to artificially inflate your XP gain by lowering your effective stats.

I agree, this is a good idea.

 

 

I would say yes if there were chims spawns that were providing more than 350k per hour.

 

Ts pots now exist because chims arent trainable.

They strike hard and give no exp,their drops are crappy,respawning time sucks.

Either a new monster, a bit stronger than feros must be added or chims should be buffed up or respawn faster.

Ts pots exist because there is no need for the developers to add new monsters to the game all the time.

Also when a player is ts poted the chances to brake armour are higher so its good for the economy.

Edited August 12, 2007 by agis29

[korrode]

Also high material points doesn't always mean better exp. Check yetis to see it.

I know where your coming from Agis , but really their high health should equal more exp, a main part of the reason they dont is due to long re-spawn time.

 

We get our p/c's right so no matter what we're training on we rarely do more than 10 damage per hit.

Simple math:

~10 damage max per hit, no matter your a/d or monster.

The hourly exp will not increase unless you get the opportunity to hit and dodge as many times p/h as you did on you previous monster.

You will only get the required amount of hit and dodge opportunities if the monster's health and re-spawn time are the same as the previous monster.

To make things fair; the higher the level the monster, the more health it should have, so you make that bit more exp. That is fair considering the additional exp needed between levels as your a/d goes up

 

 

I'm not looking to argue with you, just pointing out that the problem with yeti exp isn't related to it's health... in general; monster with more health = more exp... the only thing that makes that not work is the changing spawn times.

Edited August 12, 2007 by Korrode

[agis29]

Also high material points doesn't always mean better exp. Check yetis to see it.

I know where your coming from Agis , but really their high health should equal more exp, a main part of the reason they dont is due to long re-spawn time.

 

We get our p/c's right so no matter what we're training on we rarely do more than 10 damage per hit.

Simple math:

~10 damage max per hit, no matter your a/d or monster.

The hourly exp will not increase unless you get the opportunity to hit and dodge as many times p/h as you did on you previous monster.

You will only get the required amount of hit and dodge opportunities if the monster's health and re-spawn time are the same as the previous monster.

To make things fair; the higher the level the monster, the more health it should have, so you make that bit more exp. That is fair considering the additional exp needed between levels as your a/d goes up

 

 

I'm not looking to argue with you, just pointing out that the problem with yeti exp isn't related to it's health... in general; monster with more health = more exp... the only thing that makes that not work is the changing spawn times.

 

I really dont argue with u too. U said many truths to your last post.

But look what happened with dc's. Still people dont train on them. Thats why i said about "350k+ exp per hour".

According to tempest feros give 375k per hour and i get 300+ without ts pots around at 110 a/d.

[korrode]

I really dont argue with u too. U said many truths to your last post.

But look what happened with dc's. Still people dont train on them. Thats why i said about "350k+ exp per hour".

According to tempest feros give 375k per hour and i get 300+ without ts pots around at 110 a/d.

Yep your right, Fero's average a/d is lower than d.chim, so d.chim needs to have the same health as them and same re-spawn time to be appropriate as the next monster in training.

[Wynand]

seems ive missed the big arguement since my last post , but it seems to be pretty much solved by now...

 

but I must say agis u have wrongfully attacked sufi... instead of coming up with an answer u kept going on about how wrong the -10 coord is... my a/d/p/c is very similar to sufi, and it is considered the optimum stats to train fluffy/feros (even without TS, TS just gives more exp)... but there are people with 15+ a/d than us who get the same exp per hour on the same thing, and we cannot kill them in PK in single combat... we can however get 10 more coord (from our saved pp's) which would have evened it out a bit more, because now those people with more a/d would have had to take less p/c to get better exp per hour, so the pk'ing would have been more equal... and dont sell us that BS that with -10 coord you could train forever on fluffy/feros, coord stones cost 15kgc each, i culd get 150kgc in a week... and feros do not give 375k exp (maybe if u get ganged alot and heal them, but im talking of normal training), more like 300-330k.

 

-St

[agis29]

seems ive missed the big arguement since my last post , but it seems to be pretty much solved by now...

 

but I must say agis u have wrongfully attacked sufi... instead of coming up with an answer u kept going on about how wrong the -10 coord is... my a/d/p/c is very similar to sufi, and it is considered the optimum stats to train fluffy/feros (even without TS, TS just gives more exp)... but there are people with 15+ a/d than us who get the same exp per hour on the same thing, and we cannot kill them in PK in single combat... we can however get 10 more coord (from our saved pp's) which would have evened it out a bit more, because now those people with more a/d would have had to take less p/c to get better exp per hour, so the pk'ing would have been more equal... and dont sell us that BS that with -10 coord you could train forever on fluffy/feros, coord stones cost 15kgc each, i culd get 150kgc in a week... and feros do not give 375k exp (maybe if u get ganged alot and heal them, but im talking of normal training), more like 300-330k.

 

-St

 

375 k was what Tempest said. I get 300k+ on feros without ts pots(at around 110 def and 106 attack) and yes with -10 coords i can train for a long long time. Actually - 4 coords would be enough.

It was my choise to have a -10 coords penalty meaning that i kept my coords low.

Allow me plz to know how much exp i get and how much i will get better than u.

I dont need ts pots for fluffies even now. Its easy to get 370 k per hour on fluffies btw without healing them at middle 90's.

If you think that i am not telling the truth about the exp i get, i bet all my inventory, If i lie i ll donate everything i have at sto to a contest.

And plz dont consider that i have any problem with you.

 

Check the link..

That is exp WITHOUT TS POTS !!

Edited August 13, 2007 by agis29

[jowwow]

seems ive missed the big arguement since my last post , but it seems to be pretty much solved by now...

 

but I must say agis u have wrongfully attacked sufi... instead of coming up with an answer u kept going on about how wrong the -10 coord is... my a/d/p/c is very similar to sufi, and it is considered the optimum stats to train fluffy/feros (even without TS, TS just gives more exp)... but there are people with 15+ a/d than us who get the same exp per hour on the same thing, and we cannot kill them in PK in single combat... we can however get 10 more coord (from our saved pp's) which would have evened it out a bit more, because now those people with more a/d would have had to take less p/c to get better exp per hour, so the pk'ing would have been more equal... and dont sell us that BS that with -10 coord you could train forever on fluffy/feros, coord stones cost 15kgc each, i culd get 150kgc in a week... and feros do not give 375k exp (maybe if u get ganged alot and heal them, but im talking of normal training), more like 300-330k.

 

-St

 

375 k was what Tempest said. I get 300k+ on feros without ts pots(at around 110 def and 106 attack) and yes with -10 coords i can train for a long long time. Actually - 4 coords would be enough.

It was my choise to have a -10 coords penalty meaning that i kept my coords low.

Allow me plz to know how much exp i get and how much i will get better than u.

I dont need ts pots for fluffies even now. Its easy to get 370 k per hour on fluffies btw without healing them at middle 90's.

If you think that i am not telling the truth about the exp i get, i bet all my inventory, If i lie i ll donate everything i have at sto to a contest.

And plz dont consider that i have any problem with you.

 

Check the link..

That is exp WITHOUT TS POTS !!

 

def110= 81xp/block.

With aluwen, thats 81*1.2= 97.2 (rounded down to 97xp).

 

So I dont see how you can get 120xp/block unless you are actually TSed.