Entropy Report post Posted July 17, 2007 It seems that many people are hoarding on various rare stuff with the intention to sell later on, and make an even greater profit. This is not good, because it creates artificial scarcity. In addition to that, once an announcement is made that some item was made more rare, the price increases right away after the announcement. In contrast, the price decreases less suddenly when it is announced that the item is less rare now. So I personally think that it would be a better idea not to announce the ratio changes for rare stuff. What do you think about it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kidberg Report post Posted July 17, 2007 im not voting, i think it should depend on the item Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killerbow Report post Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) i agree with you cause telling people when things arent going to be rare will cause tons of people selling/like the dragon armor update and split the prices all of the place http://www.devmaster.net/articles/mmorpg-p...ortem/part1.php MUST READ Edited July 17, 2007 by killerbow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shea Report post Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) Personally I like mysteries. I never thought that everything should be known. There is a lot of good to be said about not knowing what the chances are to get an item. Just my opinion Shea Edited July 17, 2007 by Shea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Mind Report post Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) If the price of rare items can be controlled by so few people then maybe it's a good idea to make them less rare. Edited July 17, 2007 by Mr.Mind Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beowulf Report post Posted July 17, 2007 i urge people to read all arguments presented before voting, like nmt poll i WOULD voted no, i agree with ent that it isnt good idea and shoild be kept secret maybe an ingame council of economists would help just a thought Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foncEmerlin Report post Posted July 17, 2007 WOW not often I agree 100% with something but I do agree that rarity should be known only to teh god Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shallara Report post Posted July 17, 2007 I agree that not disclosing the ratio changes just makes sense. However, I doubt the majority will vote to have it so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robotbob Report post Posted July 17, 2007 I voted no. In real world markets its tantamount to insider trading. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mufossa Report post Posted July 17, 2007 So I personally think that it would be a better idea not to announce the ratio changes for rare stuff. What do you think about it? i have always personally felt that you should keep this to youreself........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hplowe Report post Posted July 17, 2007 It seems that many people are hoarding on various rare stuff with the intention to sell later on, and make an even greater profit. This is not good, because it creates artificial scarcity. In addition to that, once an announcement is made that some item was made more rare, the price increases right away after the announcement. In contrast, the price decreases less suddenly when it is announced that the item is less rare now. So I personally think that it would be a better idea not to announce the ratio changes for rare stuff. What do you think about it? Make it a surprise.... and not part of the release notes for a patch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enly Report post Posted July 17, 2007 I voted no It seems very likely the prices go up instantly just because people hear they are rarer, items shouldn't be more expensive because we THINK they are rarer, they should be more expensive because we see the need to charge more for them because their are less around. In my opinion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmiles Report post Posted July 17, 2007 If we don't know the scarcity ratio we have no way of knowing what to harvest. ie fire essence and life essence. I voted to yes to kepp the info known. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scafativ Report post Posted July 17, 2007 So I personally think that it would be a better idea not to announce the ratio changes for rare stuff. What do you think about it? I think that I agree with you, but what a great opportunity for a formal experiment. What I would like to see is to have the announcements stop for most changes, but then to announce a couple of changes that are comparable to unannounced changes. You could then prove or disprove your hypothesis. Fun! scafativ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lexi Report post Posted July 17, 2007 Before I vote, I will just state my opinion, which this is all it is... You can go ahead and not announce a rare item, but the same thing will happen once people find out something is not as common as it was. Yes, it may take longer for people to realize this (which could be a good thing I guess..). You can't stop people from hoarding unless you just simply take things away... which wouldn't be fair at all. I say... let them hoard... if they are gonna do it, they are gonna, what if all of a sudden the item is not so rare? They lost a whole lotta time and gc (this is sorta like a stockmarket maybe.. I don't know...) --- although by not announcing this, it could hurt them deeply... In the long run; It may just make people more frustrated. I will hold off my vote until I view other opinions (as always! ). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greymage Report post Posted July 17, 2007 I agree for secret, as long as it helps control a complicated market. The only think i would add is the necessity for often changes in order to get a smooth regulation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Mind Report post Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) maybe an ingame council of economists would help just a thought They had something like that a few years ago. Not quite sure what happened to it. There is nothing wrong with announcing a change in the rarity of an item. If the change is done gradually then the prices won't spike as much. (and what is wrong with a price spike anyway?) Edited July 17, 2007 by Mr.Mind Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kulysoft Report post Posted July 17, 2007 It looks like so far the "mystery" followers are wining. The truth is ... if the REAL numbers are known then the prices cant be manipulated based on assuptions. Real numbers are different. I guess it would be good to "let out us of the darrk" so to speak Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted July 17, 2007 If the price of rare items can be controlled by so few people then maybe it's a good idea to make them less rare. One would think that 12K EFEs is not very rare, yes? Or +5K of rostos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LevinMage Report post Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) I certainly agree that people are hoarding rare items for hope of selling later on, which I do sometimes as well. I dont see anything inherently wrong in speculation, or people who are able to profit from it. I dont see anything wrong with artifical scarcity unless people are able to completely monopolize an item, which I am not sure is possible to do on EL. Things like EFE all people have an opportunity to make and serpent stones dropped by moderate monsteres like ogres/trolls. So as long as no one can have a monopoly on an item, I dont think some people artifically keeping items on a speculation basis is wrong. "In addition to that, once an announcement is made that some item was made more rare, the price increases right away after the announcement." (is completely true) "In contrast, the price decreases less suddenly when it is announced that the item is less rare now." Maybe, but I cant imagine how that by not announcing the ratio changes for rare stuff would make the item price drop any quicker. I actually think that the biggest change announcing ratios would do is make the items that are changed to more rare,go up slower in price, than it would if you posted the changed ratio. Edited July 17, 2007 by LevinMage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lleumas Report post Posted July 17, 2007 I voted no, because I'm poor and those giant price leaps are ev0l It'll be easier to see things become cheaper as more are produced and price goes down regularly, but without announcing that you are making things more scarce it's harder to see and the price increase is much slower ... ---- On another note, could you spike the price of beaver furs to 2k like the old days would help my brokeness -Lleu /DC/many other names o_0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted July 17, 2007 There is nothing inherently wrong with speculation, but in this case it hurts the game, because of the following scenario: People hoard on items, then the items are scarce, then they accumulate to large quantities, and the item is not even rare anymore, but quite expensive. Then I end up seeing that we have too many rare items in the game, and reduce the rate even more, which again, starts this process again. If people sold those items for reasonable prices, then there would be more money circulating in the game, which is good for mostly everyone. If not, we have a semi-recession. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anos Report post Posted July 17, 2007 In short, yes, keep the stats closed source. Seems to me, from all the discussions I've read on the forums, that the devs are going for as real (irl-like) an economy as possible. This means prices (most of them, anyway) are/should be based on supply and demand. Great supply and low demand means a lower price and vice versa. Irl, people don't find out immediately when something becomes less common, so prices go up as demand goes up and supply goes down, and vice versa. So, in keeping with the life-like economy goals, ratios should be "secret" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Mind Report post Posted July 17, 2007 If the price of rare items can be controlled by so few people then maybe it's a good idea to make them less rare. One would think that 12K EFEs is not very rare, yes? Or +5K of rostos. I don't know, it depends on the number of players, but the question should be more of why those items aren't being used than how rare they are. EFEs are limited in use by the rarity of other items that you need to use with them, such as serpent stones. Why people aren't using their rostos is beyond me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bkc56 Report post Posted July 17, 2007 It's probably just my personality, but I've always referred to have the information so I can make an informed decision rather than have to guess without knowing. Just my personal preference. I voted yes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites