High level monsters adjustment

[Itzalan]

I don't train much but when i do, it's on mountain chims. Used to train a little on them before c2, but they were a lot weaker and had 180hp if i remember correctly. Considering their current strength, for such monsters, i'd say drops aren't really good : about 40 gc max, may be a little more, loads of useless tit longs and general axe books , same as when they were weaker. If you have a CoL, a tit plate and a jagged/cutlass, you'll probably prefer to go for yetis. Drops are so much better even if you get lower exp, yetis hitting more often and harder

 

For desert chim, i started to train them the day they appeared (OK, may be 2 or 3 days later, the time to find my way to that new continent ). At that time, it was the perfect monster to punch for me. After more than 30 a/d on fluff, i was teh happyz0rz. As i don't think its stats changed, it probably is the same for those whith the same stats (CoL, steel/tit plates didn't exist, now, people train monsters they're wouldn't have been able to train before). Drops where OK (Sad that it stopped dropping EFEs, ELEs sell for a good price now though ) so i'd say nothing to change here.

 

Forest chims are the weird ones. They give decent defense but attack is quite low compared to it (20 points lower, that's a 20 levels gap). Maybe some tweaking could be done here. The mana you can get from there is nice too. The drops are more or less the same than for desert but EMPs instead of great healing pots and those books it keeps dropping, so it should be OK

 

In my opinion, just a little change in FC's a/d and MC drops should be good. No problem with mana on MC, i just make mana pots while training, it's more than enough, i just take some vials, a bunch of wine, the lupines surround every spawn

 

The main problem imho is that people are now spoiled with all those enourmous drops from other monsters, that's why they go from fluff to yeti as soon as they can, ignoring the poor chims, so, if you want them to go for chims, make it that only chims drop nmt (Well, in some other way, good for me as it is now, i always find a free mountain chim spawn when i feel like training )

[Entropy]

Yes, perhaps I should lower their p/c to negative values, so that you can go to train on yeti after you train on wolves.

I think people should ready my post before they reply.

 

 

Well u asked why ppl jump from fluffy to yetis, u asked ideas to change this or i didnt understand?

 

Yes, which means that the yetis are fine, otherwise people wouldn't jump on them when they are done with fluffy, yes?

[Panzerfaust]

I got good exp from fluffs/feros, after moving on to chims I get a lot better exp by training PVP and my monster killing is mostly for fun and treasure hunting.

Chims dont drop any good anymore but I enjoied killing desert chims when they dropped a lot of ELE's.

On double or triple spawns with chims I need a sword to kill it quick enough else one of them most likely gett away from me, and with my stats my exp is'nt that good form spawns like that.

With shorter respawn time I think it's more likely to get nice exp from chims, and it takes away the 40 sec with nothing to do that's sometimes feels like a very long time.

[hades]

which means that the yetis are fine

 

just a tiny note here double yetis are fine not the singles ones.

[RallosZek]

Here's the prob with DCW:

 

That's one Desert Chim fight, which lasted for 15 minutes, cost 5 restores, 2 Mana Drains, 5 coord, 5 instinct (wildness) pots and it dropped 6 gc. Personally, I don't care about the cost, a/d isn't my primary skill, but a lot of people do care.

 

DC has 5 a/d more then Fluffy and I'm starting it now, with 5 more attack then I had when I started fluffy. Even though as you can see, I have little trouble defending it, I can't hit it at all. Basically only crits.

Personally, I do not mind that, part of my build. But most people who train on them, have more phys, do more damage and then the 180HP (as said more in this thread) is a problem for them.

 

If I find the time tomorrow, I can show you hourly exp rate differences.

[Ambrosius]

imo:

 

Yeti are fine....the double spawns that is....they have too long respawn time for single spawns.

 

AC needs a bit more health.

 

MC/FC are fine...you can get good xp on double spawns (single MC is pretty reasonable) but the gc and drops are bad for such a strong monster. MC needs mana.

 

DC needs more health and should give a bit better xp (maybe higher a/d a bit and lower p/c some). as is now fluff is same or better xp. (fluff has more health, spawns quicker and about same a/d)

 

Feros: cant comment never trained them.

 

Cockatrice: bit stronger than yeti but gives worse xp....they need more health and maybe a bit of a/d p/c tweaking.

 

my 2 cents

[Kidberg]

Well the problem as Ent pointed out is that people go from fluffs to yetis. I know a lot of people that have 120 ad and still train in fluffs. This dramatically hurts their pking skills because they have to maintain a low p/c just to be able to train on fluffs. Ive not really messed around with Chims that much only recently and have noticed and heard that they drop nothing compared to fluffs or feros. Maybe if you took the arti cape off fluffs and put it on chims, that would help some? Maybe a rare steel armor drop every now and then? And tweak the stats were someone with 100's ad can train on them to get the same or a little more xp per hour that they would on a fluff/fero and have the p/c to maintain pkings skills also.

Edited July 5, 2007 by Kidberg

[mufossa]

I just visited the forest chim spawns, and there was no one there.

forest chim's give more def then atk exp the problem thweir is that they land too many hits to actually benefit from this, reverse them give them a lower atk and a higher def that way a trainer can benefit, with more atk exp and take less dammage

 

and Better drops is definatly a factor....also i always felt that personally YETIS are too damn weak.... and weaker players have an easy time adjusting to them... mabye raise their cord and inflicted dammage to limit the easy conversion from fluffy to yeti

Edited July 5, 2007 by mufossa

[SinS]

I just visited the forest chim spawns, and there was no one there.

forest chim's give more def then atk exp the problem thweir is that they land too many hits to actually benefit from this, reverse them give them a lower atk and a higher def that way a trainer can benefit, with more atk exp and take less dammage

 

and Better drops is definatly a factor....also i always felt that personally YETIS are too damn weak.... and weaker players have an easy time adjusting to them... mabye raise their cord and inflicted dammage to limit the easy conversion from fluffy to yeti

 

I didn't want to be the first to bring it up, but I do agree with mufossa here. That is make the monsters people are training on easily harder, then you only have to tweak those ones. Makes all the rest look better by comparison

[Entropy]

Ok, good point.

I made the yeti slightly stronger.

[korrode]

Here's the prob with DCW:

 

That's one Desert Chim fight, which lasted for 15 minutes, cost 5 restores, 2 Mana Drains, 5 coord, 5 instinct (wildness) pots and it dropped 6 gc. Personally, I don't care about the cost, a/d isn't my primary skill, but a lot of people do care.

If the "prob" is that the att and def exp are uneven, well, that usually is the case when u simply dont have enough Might for what your fighting, irrelevant of att level and dexterity. Rallos, try with an iron sword, perhaps a steel long, and check the results... I could be wrong about that being the reason why the a/d exp is uneven, but i would think your att level + your dex + moon med would be enough to score hits on d.chim, so Might seems to be the only possible reason.

 

Of course, it will equal shorter fights and prolly less overall exp p/h.

Edited July 5, 2007 by Korrode

[Entropy]

No, you are right, he just wasn't ready for it.

[asgnny]

Some of the major factors as to which monsters players use to train are as follow (in no particular order):

 

Spawn availability & respawn times

Fluffies respawn every 27 seconds or so. Regardless of whether it takes a person 5 seconds or 5 minutes to kill a single fluffy, there will be another one there soon to give more exp & drops.

 

Desert chims are about 10 a/d higher than fluffies, with higher p/c. They also have a longer respawn time. Provided a fighter keeps p/c to some reasonably low levels, it will always be better to TS down 10 att/def and fight fluffies. Better drops overall, and one takes less of a beating.

 

Forest chims & Mountain chims respawn a bit too slowly to have much in the way of exp by fighting only one. There are ways around this (see: ignore level).

 

Yeti respawn every 95 seconds or so. This makes them insanely boring to train on a single spawn, not to mention poor exp. As of the time of this post, there are typically 1-2 people sitting and waiting for a double spawn to open up. The double spawn cuts the average respawn time down to about 48 seconds. It is more efficient to get zero exp over the course of 1-2 hours waiting for a double spawn, than to fight a single yeti.

Drops (normal)

Average gc drop for fluffy is somewhere around 17gc. Factoring in other drops (serp stones, ti axe con books, acc/evasion potions), this covers essences & mana.

 

Average gc drop for desert/forest/mountain chimerans is somewhere around 30gc. Factoring in other drops (ele's, potion drops, books) this covers essences & mana (assuming fighting one at a time).

 

Average gc drop for yeti is 190 gc! This allows for a lot of resources to be used to kill a yeti, and still net a hearty profit.

 

Rare item drops

Fluffy drops No More Tears and Artificer capes. These are fairly rare, however there are a lot of players killing a lot of fluffies all day long. The promise of these drops (eventually) draws players to bump up to fluffies earlier than they otherwise would.

 

Desert/Forest/Mountains Chimerans don't really drop anything rare. There isn't much draw to these monsters as a result.

 

Yeti drop wolfram bars, and No More Tears, Artificer, and Passive Camouflage capes. This draws players who have the a/d skill for desert chims to take negative perks in order to handle yeti and overcrowd the few decent yeti spawns.

 

Ignore levels

Fluffies ignore at a reasonable range. By the time a player can easily take on a fluffy, they stop autoattacking. Once a player is ignored by fluffies, they can TS down for a while to induce attack, but only for so long.

 

Desert and Forest chims ignore at 121 defense. This allows all but the top few players in the game to use their natural defense (or TS down to 120 def) in order to get defense exp from multiple chims at a time. Experience builds up quickly when sitting there blocking for long stretches of time without the need for respawn.

 

Yeti ignore at stupidly low levels, IMO. By the time a player can reasonably handle a fluffy rabbit, Yeti soon ignore. There is no risk involved for a player first starting out on Yeti to be attacked before he is ready. There is no benefit for players with the MM perk who wish to train on a fluffy in an area with Yeti roaming about.

 

 

Environment

Fluffies exist in fair weather, as well as cold climates. The cold climate spawns make them less attractive to some players, which is a good thing. This makes those spawns more likely to be open to the players willing to deal with the cold, for instance.

 

Desert/Forest/Mountain chims only exist in fair weather. Forest chims are in forest maps (understandably), however this makes those maps laggy, given the number of 3D objects (trees) to load.

 

Edit: forgot Yeti.

Yeti are in cold maps. This makes sense.

Armor breakage

I can only go by experience with regard to armor breakage, as I have no clue on the actual stats.

 

Fluffies don't really seem to break much.

 

Desert and Forest chims don't seem so terrible. Mountain chims, whether by my bad luck, or perhaps by design, break more armor of mine than Yeti. The past few times I've tried training Mountain chims, I degraded some steel plate armor item or a CoL within about 12 minutes.

 

Yeti do break my armor quite a lot (on average, about one piece of titanium armor every day). Mind you, this is with top 5 a/d skills, and NMT cape on 100% of the time. Despite such high break rates, the normal and rare drops are more than enough to compensate. As for players who merely cutlass Yeti for drops, they won't break much, and walk out with tons of gc.

 

Final points

Fluffies are widely used, as they appeal to a wide range of players from 70s to 120s+ a/d. The fast respawn time, as well as decent normal and excellent rare drops make them attractive to players.

 

Desert chimerans have higher toughness than fluffy, which make them a reasonable alternative for players who either have too high phys/coord or even a/d for fluffies. Respawn times are not quite as quick as fluffy, but are still not terrible. Their drops are not all that impressive, but finding an open spawn isn't much of a challenge. Defense-based autoattack level means once two or more find you, one can get lots of exp.

 

Forest chimerans have very high toughness and give nice defense exp. The locations of their spawns make them fairly difficult to find and chase, however their defense-based autoattack level means once two or more find you, one can get lots of exp. Drops are enough to cover the cost of training.

 

Yeti are strong, tough, and have a lot (400) of material points. This enables players to pump up p/c well beyond their normal means, and to rake in exp and gc. There is little difference between being in the top 10 a/d and being number 30 so long as the number 30 a/d person negs up p/c enough. In fact, the higher a/d, the less exp earned per hit and block. Higher p/c is a marginal benefit for exp. Someone with the a/d for desert chims with a cutlass can comfortably handle yeti. Working hard to conquer 20,000,000 exp a/d levels leads to nothing but diminishing returns. Yeti drop too much gc, creating a massive surplus for those who train them regularly. This gc is now spent on buying nexus removal stones and hydro bars, to just inflate the player's p/c even further. On average, these players can absolutely demolish those who train on fluffy or chims in PK, and with virtually no downside. Negative perks are a joke, on average. A player with 100,000's of gc in storage from Yeti and Arctic chims doesn't need to waste time harvesting (free 5 pickpoints from harvester of sorrow), selling to npc's (free 10 pickpoints from antisocial), eating food to gain the extra mana over time (free 3 pickpoints from power hungry). Paying for rings or teleport essences is a joke (free 3 pickpoints from scotty died). This is 21 "free" pickpoints, with minimal impact.

 

The cost of 50 hydro bars + 1 nexus removal stones is about 850k gc. This seems like a lot, but all it really takes is 2-3 rare yeti drops. I can choose to work hard to level a/d, or in probably less time, farm gc (cutlassing yeti) and just buy p/c, while still getting 40-50% of the exp I would otherwise get training.

 

Note: for those of you wondering, currently train on Yeti (when I can find a spawn).

Edited July 5, 2007 by asgnny

[Zamirah]

I been training on all chims, and this is what I think:

Dchims, not much better xp than fluffs, not as good drops as fluffs so better neg down and stay fluffs.

 

Fchims, I have been training a loot in Kusamura, xp good, drops better than the other chims BUT : with 5 or 6 spawns on a very big map ( never found out how many) do it take LOTS of time to get a spawn, can be up to an hour.

You go find one, kill it and hurry back to a spawn to find it don't respawn there.

You find another, back again, still no respawn. Same over and over.

A big map like that should have different monsters - like a feros, a fchim and a mchim.

 

Mchims are very good xp, but very bad drops, I train mchims most time and go and kill some yetis when I need money.

(They drop tit longs, I have 247, impossible to sell, and evasion books, I have 51, impossible to sell.)

 

Yetis are not really good xp and boring to train, I would stay away from them if chims gave same good drops as yeti.

Edited July 5, 2007 by Zamirah

[mufossa]

Asgnny put together a very well informed post and he is 100% accurate..

the only problem is, if entropy lowered respawn times and added more double spawns people would level at an incredible rate.............

[agis29]

Exp per hour on fluffies is better than chims.

If chims were respawning faster i would train on them. I don't care about the drops.

Chims also strike harder and destroy items but if i was getting better exp i wouldnt care also.

[molime]

Yes, perhaps I should lower their p/c to negative values, so that you can go to train on yeti after you train on wolves.

I think people should ready my post before they reply.

 

 

Well u asked why ppl jump from fluffy to yetis, u asked ideas to change this or i didnt understand?

 

Yes, which means that the yetis are fine, otherwise people wouldn't jump on them when they are done with fluffy, yes?

 

Which is why exvitermini's advice 'raise a/d and go down with p/c i was hited hard with 90 coord and 112 def' was about chims, not yetis. Which was what you were asking for.

 

I'm no a/d exp-machine (hardly train at all lately) and I have no clue about exp-optimisation, so I'll leave that to the experts and can't judge personally if that was a good advice for the chims. A chance to get a *good* drop from chims as well would help too though, I guess. NMT/artificer from fluffs and yetis, but not chims - a good reason for people to leave those chims, unless maybe if the exp from chims was better, not worse.

 

With yeti made stronger now after all, I hope some good adjustments to chims will be made indeed.

[pook]

just add pc ad to yetti and more double spawns, dont listen to Mufossa about incredable leveling bc AD means nothing anymore

[mufossa]

just add pc ad to yetti and more double spawns, dont listen to Mufossa about incredable leveling bc AD means nothing anymore

more double spawns = more people killing more yetis = more drops more gold more rare drops = more nex stone buying/ more pople leveling fast = stfu pookies

[pook]

just add pc ad to yetti and more double spawns, dont listen to Mufossa about incredable leveling bc AD means nothing anymore

more double spawns = more people killing more yetis = more drops more gold more rare drops = more nex stone buying/ more pople leveling fast = stfu pookies

No shit thats what i said in my post nuub, go learn how to Pk plx...

[Ambrosius]

Another suggestion:

 

Lower the accuracy bonus from Cutlass (and Jagged Saber maybe) this will help prevent ppl training above their A/D lvls.

[mufossa]

just add pc ad to yetti and more double spawns, dont listen to Mufossa about incredable leveling bc AD means nothing anymore

more double spawns = more people killing more yetis = more drops more gold more rare drops = more nex stone buying/ more pople leveling fast = stfu pookies

No shit thats what i said in my post nuub, go learn how to Pk plx...

oh sorry lol i didnt realise youre post had such a hidden meaning

 

can u send me a decoder ring plx kk ty....i r friendly harvest0r plx plx no pk

 

Another suggestion:

 

Lower the accuracy bonus from Cutlass (and Jagged Saber maybe) this will help prevent ppl training above their A/D lvls.

could be a good idea...mabye make acc+evasion pots a bit weaker

Edited July 5, 2007 by mufossa

[pook]

Another suggestion:

 

Lower the accuracy bonus from Cutlass (and Jagged Saber maybe) this will help prevent ppl training above their A/D lvls.

 

nope then ppl with lower pc cant take you and your 120 cord in PK...

[agis29]

Another suggestion:

 

Lower the accuracy bonus from Cutlass (and Jagged Saber maybe) this will help prevent ppl training above their A/D lvls.

 

 

Would u suggest the same when u were training on yetis with cutlass?I remember one post of yours when u were training on yetis (although u were weak for them) and u had problems with your items that were getting degraded.

This is unfair for the rest of the players and and by lowering the accurasy of cutlass and js strong people will become stronger and weak weaker. I am talking about pk here.

[Guest ohmygod]

Yeti is gc machine. Every man and his dog want to try harvest for gc.

 

24/7 Yeti trainers are only ones who can afford nex stone...

 

My suggestion would be to make them break more armours and shit then profits to train yeti not so much = less people training them.

 

Ok, good point.

I made the yeti slightly stronger.

 

Didnt notice any difference. Make more stronger please