A modest proposal

[Learner]

There have been increasing reports of people having problems with routes to the EL Game Server when others aren't affected, ports being blocked, banned IP ranges, and hacking alerts on port 2000 that people can't always resolve.

 

Keep in mind the recent disturbances in the Net where a router in Germany wasn't sending packets to the game server, but the web site worked perfectly for them. Or players who's access to port 2000 has been blocked by a University. Or active players in good standing being affected by banned IP ranges.

 

With this in mind, I'm considering setting up an approved premium proxy service to allow people to connect to one of several machines, which then connect the players to EL. This would have to be a fee based service for authorized users only. Unlike people that try to use proxy's to illegally access the game server, this proposed premium service would also allow existing players a way to get access to the game as if they were whitelisted, without having to go through the hassles of getting white listed.

 

What I need to know is number of people that are interested and the fees they would be willing to pay to allow for alternative and approved connections into the EL game server?

 

Later, I'll put up a poll for more detailed information, right now if I can just get some basic feedback on people as well as discussions about the proposed service to help people make up their mind if it could be useful to them and how useful it might be.

 

Keep in mind that this is NOT a way to get back into the game if you have been banned for causing trouble or breaking too many rules in game. This is for good rule abiding players that are having problems playing the game.

[Gohan]

I didn't get much of the details.. But it does sound interesting in case anyone ever gets into trouble. I don't have much trouble connecting myself, but in case I ever do, this could be a great solution.

 

I'm in favor of the idea.

 

-Blee

[kl4Uz]

I can't see a customer base for this, as it's easy to set up your own proxy or forward ports via SSH, etc.

[ETHERAL_SLAYER]

I like this idea a lot. I think People *like my self* Should be given a place where they are guarenteed to acctually get on an play. I would be more than happy to give 5$usd a year to use it as well.

[The_Piper]

I can't see a customer base for this, as it's easy to set up your own proxy or forward ports via SSH, etc.

 

The customer base are the people who dont understand a single word from your post

 

Piper

[Ogle]

Why wouldn't you just spend like a week or maybe less getting white-listed? A week without EL beats paying $5

 

and i'm with kl4Uz (even though I didn't exactly understand what she said....but it sounds cheaper and pretty quick)

[redsoxlovr10]

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't there a rule against skirting punishment?

 

If somebody is banned, wouldn't they be able to just basically pay for this and be able to play again if it was an IP ban.

[Learner]

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't there a rule against skirting punishment?

 

If somebody is banned, wouldn't they be able to just basically pay for this and be able to play again if it was an IP ban.

IP range bans can cover many more people then just the person the ban is intended for. What I would be setting up with Entropy's permission would be another way people caught in a ban that doesn't involve them a way to get it. Since I'd be looking at only allowing existing players that have paid access, the troublemaker couldn't create new characters through this system. I'm also talking with Entropy on how the EL mods would be able to work with the proxy server in cases when a troublemaker might have multiple characters and a lot of money to blow on my subscription service.

 

Think of the people from AOL that sometimes have trouble getting in because large portions of AOL have gotten banned. It's the innocent people caught by that which could benefit from this without overloading Roja and the EL whitelist system.

 

The main thing that triggered this concept was when there is bad routers or port related issues. The whitelist is a nice side effect of being able to set this up.

 

I can't see a customer base for this, as it's easy to set up your own proxy or forward ports via SSH, etc.

Not everyone can do that, a proxy server doing that could get involved in a ban if there is a troublemaker around, and a bad router could still cause problems.

 

Think of the times some people could use the forums no problem but the route to the server was bad. In those cases the routes were different, and the path to the forums bypassed the bad router. Having one or more places you could connect to in order to try to get access would help the people get around a bad router.

 

Also, you have to trust the remote system not to keep your login information or mess up your character. What I'm looking into doing is setting up something with Entropy's full approval that players can also trust to be able to use safely.

[xbox360]

Although i have no connection problems i think this would be a great idea for people who do and/or have been cought in a ban rang.

[Suessie]

What about gameserver will be change to an other port, since Cisco is using port 2000 (official) for Internet Telephony?

----------------

Query at http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers

cisco-sccp 2000/tcp Cisco SCCP

cisco-sccp 2000/udp Cisco SCCp

----------------

 

I know there shouldn't be any problems about that, but it seems there are some misconfigured router/firewalls out there.

[Placid]

What about gameserver will be change to an other port, since Cisco is using port 2000 (official) for Internet Telephony?

Eventually, the new port would be blocked too. Furthermore, I very much doubt Entropy would go through the hassle of changing the server and attempting to explain to everyone to change the game server port in el.ini, let alone repackaging the downloads to point to the new port by default.

 

Plus, I think part of the idea is to make money from it

[Tanyia]

I don't personally have connection problems, but if I did have problems that this service could fix, I would use it. Plus, I know at least one person who would be able to use this to play EL again, so I support it for their sake

[agis29]

Its a very good idea so i voted yes.Maybe its time to make a list with all those isp's that are blocking port 2000.

If the game server change port this wont be a problem at all.Of course if this happens with the next client update, not now.

Edited April 12, 2007 by agis29

[dejan]

Good idea, Learner.

 

IMHO some people, excluding me, needs this service. The first example that came to my mind is something I have had in my guild. An ISP has been banned because one of my former guildmates did something (still have no idea what exactly happened, but I know he did something, i guess some kind of DoS attack on the server). The trouble was that we had other players who used the same ISP and could not play EL because of this.

 

Your Proxy could be used by people who are desperate to play EL in this situation.

 

There are probably some other possible use-cases I guess.

 

Kind regards

Edited April 12, 2007 by Dejan

[ZureKnightofDarkWorld]

I like the idea, only thing is some of us can't pay for it *sobs* but all in all its nice

[majestyk]

Where are you going to place that proxy? It's either close to the EL game server, so it will be affected by bad routers too, or in any other place, therefore adding to the latency you already have. I (as a european) would certainly not like to use a proxy in the US.

 

It also adds to the maintenance tasks you already have - if a player is banned from the game, he not only has to be blocked on the server, but also have to be disabled/IP banned on the proxy.

 

If you are going to have the proxy listen on port 2000, you will also not solve the problem that some universities block that port. If you are not using port 2000, it would be just as hard to change the player's config as if you would change the EL game server port.

 

So, summarizing, you might be able to workaround some player's problems, and it might be enough players to even pay for itself eventually. But it doesn't solve the problems themselves.

 

PS - for the server port problem - using a (temporary?) DNAT rule to forward incoming connections on port XYZ to the local port 2000 would make for an easy transition phase when changing ports, and could also be used to offer other ports for playing the game in case connecting over port 2000 is broken/blocked.

 

Cheers,

maj

[Learner]

I like the idea, only thing is some of us can't pay for it *sobs* but all in all its nice

I understand how that might happend, but a real $ fee is required to cover the additional server costs and to help reduce problems from troublemaker. Some players might be able to buy your in game gc to pay your fees for you if you can talk to them RL or get enough game access to get them in game. Right now I don't have any regular people I can recommend.

 

Where are you going to place that proxy? It's either close to the EL game server, so it will be affected by bad routers too, or in any other place, therefore adding to the latency you already have. I (as a european) would certainly not like to use a proxy in the US.

I'm thinking about the first server being on the same ISP as the EL web server in France, but this isn't definate. They have an inexpensive serivce available, and most people take a different route to get to it then the game server. POften when people have been having router problems, their access to the web server still worked good, so the route is different enough to bypass recent trouble spots. Even from the US, it often takes a different route once it gets to EU.

 

The second server would be my current OL/bot server in the US. This wouldn't help european players, but might help US players find an alternate route to europe, but this server usually would five players a worse ping time then going directly to the french server. If the number of users are high enough I'd like to get a second server in EU and US, the location of course is undecided. Location, Cost, and bandwidth are critical factors in deciding how many servers and where.

 

It also adds to the maintenance tasks you already have - if a player is banned from the game, he not only has to be blocked on the server, but also have to be disabled/IP banned on the proxy.

 

If you are going to have the proxy listen on port 2000, you will also not solve the problem that some universities block that port. If you are not using port 2000, it would be just as hard to change the player's config as if you would change the EL game server port.

The current plan is that each server would be listening on multiple ports, not just 2000. If an IP range is banned by the game, the proxy server will not know about it (on purpose) and still accept paying customers from those ranges, that is part of how it will help get people in banned IP ranges to the game. But, troublemakers on the EL server can have their characters locked to prevent access, can get a character banned in a way the proxy is notified, and the proxy server will not allow new characters to be made (only existing accounts) to reduce abuses by locked players and troublemakers. I just haven't worked out the easiest way to allow for a name change on the game server being easily adjusted for on the proxy server.

 

So, summarizing, you might be able to workaround some player's problems, and it might be enough players to even pay for itself eventually. But it doesn't solve the problems themselves.

 

PS - for the server port problem - using a (temporary?) DNAT rule to forward incoming connections on port XYZ to the local port 2000 would make for an easy transition phase when changing ports, and could also be used to offer other ports for playing the game in case connecting over port 2000 is broken/blocked.

 

Cheers,

maj

Yes, this system would only help work around some players problems. Some players might only need to use it part of the time. When routers are working good, connecting directly to EL will often get you the best ping time. People that have questionable connections or worse then expected ping times might get better or worse by using the proxy system. It all depends on a lot of factors.

[evilgeorge]

I can't see a customer base for this, as it's easy to set up your own proxy or forward ports via SSH, etc.

 

The customer base are the people who dont understand a single word from your post

 

Piper

 

 

And people (like myself) who will be in a restricted internet environment and who will not have administration on an external server to setup a proxy on.

 

I am very much for this proposal.

 

EG