Guess what the final item is for

[LilBear]

Some vegetable or soemthing

 

Right now all the extracts look like bright yellow potions, and the final products look like body restauration potions. Yaay for lilbear

 

[greymage]

Mixture of power and refined vegetal mixture are about 3-3.5k each to make.

If you add say 3 tin bars to those, you have your 10K.

And no lucky stone to add!

 

EDIT:

after thinking it over, i would love a formula like:

 

1 mixture of power + 1 refined vegetal + 4 matter conglomerates

 

Edited April 5, 2007 by greymage

[appel]

I would have to say a some type of superfood, where you stay full for a day or so, except for certain actions like making potions.

[Hadassah]

Yes, I'm a happy potioner! Finally some uses for all those nice harvestables.

 

I like the idea of veg 6 needed for refined vegetable pot and pot of power. A higher required level would be a good idea also. That's alot of exp for a low level potioner.

 

Same idea for the rest of the new extracts. I see a very high exp per pot and a relatively low required level to mix them. For example, the potion of alchemy has a required level of 50 and gives 190 base exp but the yarrow-wormwood-tulip extract only has a required level of 35 and gives 450 base exp. That looks off-kilter to me.

[MagpieLee]

So it effects all skills except potions, attack, defence, harvesting...

 

and I assume magic too?

[ttlanhil]

y'never know... we have summoning stones now, so maybe mages being able to make spell scrolls is coming (that would probably qualify as a use for this item)

[Duck2]

y'never know... we have summoning stones now, so maybe mages being able to make spell scrolls is coming (that would probably qualify as a use for this item)

Only if those scrolls sell for over 10k... and that is a aweful lot to perform any spells currently in EL. Which is why this item isn't useful to potion, the only thing as expensive as this item is another one of these items, and their is no gain to be made by using them.

 

--Duck2

[Entropy]

So it effects all skills except potions, attack, defence, harvesting...

 

and I assume magic too?

 

Affectes, not effectes.

 

Yes, I'm a happy potioner! Finally some uses for all those nice harvestables.

 

I like the idea of veg 6 needed for refined vegetable pot and pot of power. A higher required level would be a good idea also. That's alot of exp for a low level potioner.

 

Same idea for the rest of the new extracts. I see a very high exp per pot and a relatively low required level to mix them. For example, the potion of alchemy has a required level of 50 and gives 190 base exp but the yarrow-wormwood-tulip extract only has a required level of 35 and gives 450 base exp. That looks off-kilter to me.

 

Well, the idea is that this new 'potions' require a lot of ingredients (120+), which is why they should give more exp than the other potions that require maybe 30 or less ingredients.

Also, these 120 ingredeints are pretty hard to harvest, it takes quite a while. Sure, some people already have them in the storage, but this will change soon, when they used them up.

[MagpieLee]

I'll take that as a no then.

[Happy_G]

i like the exp ratio, ive noticed that the exp given for things not only goes by lvl but by ing, im manu you get more exp for something that requires EFE than something a few lvls higher that doesnt use EFE.

 

(im not a potter but have started gathering things for some of these to have my potter make for me wont she love me )

[greymage]

I really want to see your final product coming to market.

 

May we have a formula like:

 

final product = 2 mixture of power + 1 refined vegetal

 

or:

 

final product = 1 mixture of power + 2 refined vegetal

 

first formula better for higher level poters

 

In both cases, the product price would be about 9-11Kgc worth, which is one of your aims.

 

And then it does not weights on other products price, the market being difficult enough!

[Ogle]

Maybe other uses for the pots? Like weapon poison, etc.

 

Make it possible to create the big item but at the same time let the mixtures be used for other samll uses (maybe cost a decent amount)

 

That way potioners can sell to people who can't afford a final product of that expense

[RallosZek]

Yes, I'm a happy potioner! Finally some uses for all those nice harvestables.

 

I like the idea of veg 6 needed for refined vegetable pot and pot of power. A higher required level would be a good idea also. That's alot of exp for a low level potioner.

 

Same idea for the rest of the new extracts. I see a very high exp per pot and a relatively low required level to mix them. For example, the potion of alchemy has a required level of 50 and gives 190 base exp but the yarrow-wormwood-tulip extract only has a required level of 35 and gives 450 base exp. That looks off-kilter to me.

 

Well, the idea is that this new 'potions' require a lot of ingredients (120+), which is why they should give more exp than the other potions that require maybe 30 or less ingredients.

Also, these 120 ingredeints are pretty hard to harvest, it takes quite a while. Sure, some people already have them in the storage, but this will change soon, when they used them up.

 

Still they need higher level. I think it's good to have the extracts 40-50 range, but the mixtures and final 70+. 100 rec for all I care, gives me something to work on.

Making the mixtures really high level, you create a gravitational pull and maybe even a need for potion of potion. Potters passed the 49 dip have nice products to work with and top potters will buy extracts and make the final pots.

 

With these levels, entire top 50 or more can make these mixtures and there won't be THAT much demand, since your target audience is top 50 manu, top 50 craft and maybe top 100 alc. All in all, 40-50 different people, so at best a need of 1k of those pots per month. With 50 people being able to make them, you'll have once againsucceeded in overloading the market.

 

Maybe you don't know, but top 10 pots is 27 and more levels over the mixture of power rec. level.

 

[edit]

On a related note, I don't know what the fascination with feran horns is, but the following furs are still unused and would also work for an association with 'power':

• black panther fur
  
• tiger fur (not white)
  
• leopard fur (not snow)
  

[/edit]

Edited April 8, 2007 by RallosZek

[Lotheneil]

I don't think higher recom for those potions is neccesary. I think the final product isn't THAT elite to reserve it only for the best potioners. I was making some mushroom extracts yesterday and I really don't think that exp or recom level was too low. I was getting 625 exp for one, but if you consider the ammount of time neccesary to harvest 120 flowers/mushroom you'll realise you can level up faster with SRs. With 10 levels above recom I was still failing quite badly on those.

I think recom level for extracts, mixture and potion of power is about right, the final product will have higher recom probably, and that's fine.

Recom level 70+? I don't even want to think what level would be needed to make those reliably...

 

Side note: I really like the step-by-step way those potions are produced, where product of one formula becomes substrate for another. It would be nice to see something like this in other skills as well, wchich, if I remember correctly was considered at some point.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Lotheneil

[RallosZek]

I don't think higher recom for those potions is neccesary. I think the final product isn't THAT elite to reserve it only for the best potioners.

It's not about elite, it's about simple supply and demand. If 50 people make 10 a day on average, you're looking at 15k of the end product a month, you really think there's a demand that high? I don't.

 

I think recom level for extracts, mixture and potion of power is about right, the final product will have higher recom probably, and that's fine.

Recom level 70+? I don't even want to think what level would be needed to make those reliably...

And that's a good thing. Cause right now, the best thing top 10 can do is 15-20k srs per level. Some alc pots, some ts, and the rest is gravy. Maybe people who have 80-95 pot level deserve something only they can make reliably? Besides, it's only a matter of time before entire top 50 is 80+. I'd say a year, max. So this really is the time to introduce some challenges for higher levels. Game is lagging on the playerbase currently, too many choices in mid levels and none at high end.

 

Side note: I really like the step-by-step way those potions are produced, where product of one formula becomes substrate for another. It would be nice to see something like this in other skills as well, wchich, if I remember correctly was considered at some point.

 

Like silver rings, polished sapph => dis ring? Cause the extracts themselves have no use either

 

[edit]

To explain the supply/demand a bit more:

You can make tons of money and exp, selling the extracts if you make the mixtures and final product higher level, or you can make tons of end product mid-level and sell them to nobody, cause you're competing with 200 others, cluttering up storage and finally ending up at npc at a loss.

[/edit]

Edited April 8, 2007 by RallosZek

[Entropy]

I think they are pretty good as they are. And there will be some other similar ingredients for other things in the future, so there will be stuff to do for the high potioners.

[RallosZek]

I disagree, especially since you said the same when introducing alc pots, meanwhile, I'm 10+ levels higher and the rest of top 20 as well. I can necro the thread if you want.

[Entropy]

Yes, I said that ebfore, and I sam saying it now. The last potion now is higher in levels than the previous last potion, yes?

[Llywar]

I don't think an item has to be manufacturable by only 10 people to be of value. Just about everything I can make can be made by probably hundreds of people, and yet I still manage to squeak by. Sure, I'd love it if there were some items that only I could make - I could harvest 10 ingreds and sell the product for 200gc. But that isn't what is best for the game.

 

Not everybody in EL is in the top 50... Sure, there should be benefits from being in the top 50, but I think those exist already. For starters, EVERYTHING can be made at a low failure rate. Stuff that loses money for me can make money for a high-level char when you factor in food and losses. Not to mention the time involved in hitting that mix button over and over.

 

I like that the new items start fairly high in level (30s) and go way up. Lots of stuff for everybody to make. If your levels are in the 70s I think the best opportunities should be in leading guilds, helping newbies, etc - not just in looking for ways to make some gc easy. Sure, having high level stuff to make is also a good thing - it cuts down on the number of high-level chars leveling on SRs making the market easier on lower-level chars. However, not every new item needs to be exclusively made by people who have been playing EL for years...

[FeLkkU]

I like that the new items start fairly high in level (30s) and go way up. Lots of stuff for everybody to make. If your levels are in the 70s I think the best opportunities should be in leading guilds, helping newbies, etc - not just in looking for ways to make some gc easy. Sure, having high level stuff to make is also a good thing - it cuts down on the number of high-level chars leveling on SRs making the market easier on lower-level chars. However, not every new item needs to be exclusively made by people who have been playing EL for years...

I don't see every high-lvl guy should lead guild or help newbies...I do help newbs every now and then but not very much. I've been co-leader in rather well-known guild but it didn't suit me. I'm interested in leveling, and chatting of course. And high-lvl guys shouldn't get any more gc than lower levels? What do we level for then? For fun, yes, but there should be reward too to keep motivation high.

 

And I agree with Ral, those pots should require higher level. With my potion level(88) I fail the hardest potion less than 1 %. Every other skill has some very top-level items, but potions doesnt. And how many summoner at 70s levels with level 20 items like we potioners do? Extract from my counters to prove my point(3 most made potions):

 

Potion of Spirit Restoration 153569

True Sight Potion 37080

Potion of Body Restoration 6394

 

So I and other high-lvl potioners are still making the same pots than guys in 30s potions, I guess we could have something extra too?

Edited April 13, 2007 by FeLkkU

[2coolfool]

not a high level summoner, but i can say that levels are mainly off tiger stones, with the odd phantom/sslessar for extra exp. i pot too, and have to agree that SRs have been the only way to level when i want pot levels, all the way from 20 to my current 63..

[LilBear]

Well, I'm potion level 62 now, and just made it into the top 100 of potioning. Not sure how long I'll stay there or whether someone reading this in a year thinks, "Whaaat? Top 100 with only lvl 62?!" but I disagree with the statement that SRS are the only way to level. In fact, I don't really ever make them anymore, except when friends put in an order. Maybe I don't level as fast as others, but I level. In fact, I got my last two levels from making extracts. Rallo and others - Entropy changed the vegetal mix and power pot to require vegetal nexus 6. I think that only a dedicated potioner will go to vegetal 6. There may be a lot of potioners that only have vegetal 4 (the required for srs). They'll think twice about investing two more pp. Couple of other things: of course you have a lot of srs in sto, they've been around longer than TS. And, I don't see there being much of a market for some of those high level items in other skills. In fact, I distinctly remember most of the top manuers being incredibly miffed at the fact that bronze armor sold only at a loss. I know two top 50 manuers that make nothing but leather helmets... I'd say, let's appreciate the fact that we are getting new types of potions, new uses for unused plants, and an implied promise from Entropy that there will be even more to come in the near future.

You want to make money from pots? Make TS and sell to NPC. You want to have fun and try something new? Enjoy the extracts. They are a good thing, and at potion level 88 I'm sure you have to make about a million potions anyway to advance, no matter what potion and no matter whether you can sell them or not.

lilbear