Guys, guys guys....

[ttlanhil]

The issue as I see it isn't how it's handled after the fact, but the attempt to prevent it from happening the first time. And I see NO way to do that other than to go play solitaire.

actually, education is the only real way as far as I see, and by bringing the issue up, shallara has provided a start point. most girls probably know how bad it can get. so do some blokes. but a lot of people don't know how bad it is, or don't see it's a problem. making them more aware of just how bad it is might just make them tell the next HNG that they should shut up, they're not acting they way they should... and when it's another bloke telling them to behave, it (perhaps quite unfortunately) has quite a different effect to a lady telling them they should grow up.

If the society at large becomes aware of the issue and doesn't tolerate it, the few who give men a bad name won't be able tog et away with it

[shallara]

My problem is not with the mod team, I am all too aware of how hard you guys work to keep EL a safe place for everyone.

 

My problem is with those with the attitude that there is nothing wrong with it happening in the first place.

 

If there was nothing wrong with it, there would not be rules against it.

 

The purpose of this thread was to let people know what is going on, how bad it really does get, and maybe to get some support from the PEOPLE to help stop it.

 

The mods cannot handle a situation if all anyone does is #ignore.

They cannot take care of a problem if they are not informed it is there.

 

When someone says in local they are getting inappropriate PM's (or the equivelant) the advice should be to notify the mods by #abuse if it is that bad, AND to #ignore so they do not have to 'hear' it anymore.

[senkrad]

It is good to hear that the systems in place are being used. It is unfortunate that there are those who feel that a good time is had simply by being annoying to others.

 

My comments earlier of course will only have an effect on those actually interested in playing EL and not those just playing with the senibilities of the EL players.

 

Not sure if it would help, but maybe some kind of auto kicking feature would be of benifit. When #abuse playername blah blah blah is evoked 3 times by well leveled players the character in question is autokicked until a mod has a chance to review what the problem is. Only the first #abuse playername per 24hour period from a character will apply, min level of say 90, or maybe the top 5% OA. It would take a lot of work for 1 idiot to build 3 characters to that level and would only have access to causing bother once a day if succeded and of course the characters used by the idiot would be banned and they would have to build it again. Just a random thought.

[Istiach]

Not sure if it would help, but maybe some kind of auto kicking feature would be of benifit. When #abuse playername blah blah blah is evoked 3 times by well leveled players the character in question is autokicked until a mod has a chance to review what the problem is. Only the first #abuse playername per 24hour period from a character will apply, min level of say 90, or maybe the top 5% OA. It would take a lot of work for 1 idiot to build 3 characters to that level and would only have access to causing bother once a day if succeded and of course the characters used by the idiot would be banned and they would have to build it again. Just a random thought.

 

this wount work, pkers would start to kick each other

[Vanyel]

Not sure if it would help, but maybe some kind of auto kicking feature would be of benifit. When #abuse playername blah blah blah is evoked 3 times by well leveled players the character in question is autokicked until a mod has a chance to review what the problem is. Only the first #abuse playername per 24hour period from a character will apply, min level of say 90, or maybe the top 5% OA. It would take a lot of work for 1 idiot to build 3 characters to that level and would only have access to causing bother once a day if succeded and of course the characters used by the idiot would be banned and they would have to build it again. Just a random thought.

 

Heh, exactly way of thinking I was afraid of. Instead of prevention - penalization. What's more - wonderfully abuseable. Yet another way for lynch.

[Istiach]

Im not sure but afair there is a clausule in el license that the devs are not responsible for what happens to ur children, plant, cat by playing el. OR something like that. So when u dont feel that this game is appropriate for ur children/sister/whoever, dont let them play.

[Siarato]

I have been playing el now for 14 months and never in this time have i experienced anything like this either. To me most of this sounds like immature kids who will eventually get bored anyway if ignored. And yes some of them are more serious and need to be reported but is it really necessary to have this topic, most of us are old enough to deal with it in an adult way. I hardly think we need to start banning every kid that uses a bad word

 

And before you start to criticise, i am a parent myself and in the past i have allowed my daughter to play el and yes it would piss me off if someone pmmed her with this stuff, but unfortunately there will always be things in life we don't want our kids to see or hear. If you as a parent are allowing your child to play on the internet and interact with other rl ppl then it's your job to monitor them and deal with any problems and if your not happy, it's very simple turn off the pc.

[shallara]

There are also rules that state such behavior is illegal in game. Rules which should have the support of the players. Rules which the community at large should insist get followed.

 

Rules which you, Istiach, by the tone fo your posts, do not care about.

[Istiach]

Rules which you, Istiach, by the tone fo your posts, do not care about.

indeed i dont care, but not becase i want to breake them, but because im not a police dog to hunt for ebul imature kids

 

And IT IS NOT MY JOB. It is mods work.

EDIT: read Aislins post, The DO handle the situation.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Istiach

[Vanyel]

Rules which you, Istiach, by the tone fo your posts, do not care about.

 

What about you stop insulting or suggesting something like this to people that do not agree with you? It seems that every single person that doesn't follow your ideas with 'hurray, halleluyah' yells is:

• encouraging children sexual harassment;
  
• immature person above the age of 18;
  
• does not respect game/forums rules;
  
• etc.
  

FYI, insulting players in forums is against the rules. Do you care about rules yourself (especially since your words are breaking the very same rules you're calling up in your first post).

[shallara]

Yet somehow I get the feeling ...that if a character were making your EL experience difficult and annoying to the point of making you want to quit EL, and was using breaking rules as the MEANS to this behavior... that you would be quick to #abuse and post in forums and holler at everyone about it...

 

And again. the point is, the mods cannot enforce what they are not aware of.

That is where the players come in.

[Learner]

Yet somehow I get the feeling ...that if a character were making your EL experience difficult and annoying to the point of making you want to quit EL, and was using breaking rules as the MEANS to this behavior... that you would be quick to #abuse and post in forums and holler at everyone about it...

 

And again. the point is, the mods cannot enforce what they are not aware of.

That is where the players come in.

And players should also try to point out to the troublemakers that they shouldn't be doing that and try to get them to stop. Some players are much too willing the #abuse at the slightest language problems!

[Istiach]

Please tell me how can i do something about it, when im in Bethel, and two kids are insulting each other on ip in pms?

 

EDIT

IMO when i dont do it, it is enough.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Istiach

[eelriver]

Why not start a "Stupid, immature PM thread"? Next time someone gets a sexually suggestive PM, post it there.

[shallara]

Rules which you, Istiach, by the tone fo your posts, do not care about.

 

What about you stop insulting or suggesting something like this to people that do not agree with you? It seems that every single person that doesn't follow your ideas with 'hurray, halleluyah' yells is:

• encouraging children sexual harassment;
  
• immature person above the age of 18;
  
• does not respect game/forums rules;
  
• etc.
  

FYI, insulting players in forums is against the rules. Do you care about rules yourself (especially since your words are breaking the very same rules you're calling up in your first post).

 

 

Anshar: read a bit maybe?

 

my post read that standing by *and doing nothing* while another spoke in such a way to a child would be encouraging the trauma of said child (ie: if the shoe fits)

 

I used the word immature due to the immaturity of said actions. over 18 because if the community does not want to insist the 'kid friendly rules' get followed, then EL may as well be an 'over 18 only' game.

 

Istiach himself stated he does not care about the rules, so how is me stating it insulting?

 

When a player states in their own words that they don't care about rule breaking, how is me pointing it out flaming? Especially when the point of the thread is to get community involvement in enforcing the rules?

 

I am NOT going off on everyone saying all of EL players are pervs and need to be booted, this is merely a call out to the general public so the EL community can assist in battling this type of behavior.

 

MAybe go back and re-read the thread. From a parent's point of view. From the point of view of someone that's been a victim of this type of abuse. Maybe with a little compasion for those that are newer and do not know what to do when it happens.

 

If I had broken any forum rules, I am sure a mod would have notified me and/or deleted posts.

[Vanyel]

I'm done with the thread. It leads nowhere.

[Istiach]

IMO mature ppl dont need rules to know how to behave. And imature will break them anyway.

 

I would do the same things like i do now, even if there were no contemporary rules.

If someone doesnt care for the rules, that doesnt mean that he has to breake them.

 

The truth is that some ppl just dont care about two flaming kids, some will react, this is natural. Im just not the one that would solve it.

 

My attitude is like this becase i dont want to control other people. And i never said that i support these geeks that do troubles, my approach is that i dont do it myself. I do the same like u, but in a slighly different way. The problem is that u want everyone to do it UR way.

[Ulrih]

I think that's a good place to ask the players to be polite ingame. I've seen some bad language in the local chat so I can believe that some gals may get some bad pms. In Eternal Lands, with all the allie-enemy stuff, some anonymity and multi-lingualism it is easier to write some bad lines in pms.

 

Some people would just move on in the game hoping they #ignored the people who deserved it, shallara chose to write about it here. As we haven't got millions of players I think such a post may do some good.

 

Many greetings to all the nice people in Eternal Lands! And special greetings to all EL girls!

Edited February 20, 2007 by Ulrih

[Quilan]

Two very different, but equally valid, points of view... But what to do?

 

It least we can thank Shallara for pointing out (in TTLanhils words "educating (players)") this particular issue.

 

Despite any differences on how to tackle this, let us hope that people are now more aware and a little more likely to speak out against it (whether directly to the char/player or by way of #abuse), if they are so inclined.

[shallara]

LOL wouldn't the world be easier for us all if everyone else did exactly as each of us wanted? Seriously though, I am not bent on converting everyone to "Teh Way of Teh Shall"

 

Please do not misconstrue my intent. My intent is to inform.

Many players were unaware this type of behavior even happens.

I wanted to bring this crude behavior to the attention of the EL public, not from any one player in specific, or I would have named names. It is the behavior that I am bringing attention to.

 

Summoning at storage and other populated areas is against the rules. When someone doesn't realize that and summons at Raven, instantly several people bring it to their attention that it is not cool, against the rules, causes lag, and to please stop.

 

Ideally, this is the reaction I would like to see with the extreme crude and nasty behavior. It IS against the rules, and as such, the mods SHOULD have the players support in enforcing them.

 

This was my intention, to notify the EL community of the problem behavior, a warning to parents and other female characters that it can and does happen, and possibly allow the EL community to come together to battle it.

 

 

I apologize if I seemed to get defensive or antagonistic, that was not my intention. Sometimes the mother/protector mode kicks in on accident.

Edited February 20, 2007 by shallara

[Zafyra]

This happens in every social game on teh intarweb

 

In my own dream game I'd make everyone take an IQ test before they start, but then that would be elitist

 

Just tell them to go to a chat room or MSN if they want to hook up with people. Divert them

[Istiach]

Im trying to tell u that such ppl that break rules existed, exists, and will exist. No matter what u do. And imo contemporary el is adequately protected.

 

I think according to u it isnt, thou unless banning all players such things, that we are talking about, will happen.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Istiach

[Ghrae]

Please do not misconstrue my intent. My intent is to inform.

Many players were unaware this type of behavior even happens.

I wanted to bring this crude behavior to the attention of the EL public, not from any one player in specific, or I would have named names. It is the behavior that I am bringing attention to.

 

Im trying to tell u that such ppl that break rules existed, exists, and will exist. No matter what u do. And imo contemporary el is adequately protected.

 

I think according to u it isnt, thou unless banning all players such things, that we are talking about, will happen.

 

I think if you read, she did say this was to be informative, not a call to arms. In her last post, where did it call for a specific punishment or ban? She backed down from the defensive stance. You could be equally graceful and take the last post for what it is.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Ghrae

[Istiach]

I didnt say that she wanted to ban ppl.

 

I said that banning everyone is the only way how to solve such problems once and for all.

 

edit eek i used worn word

 

edit2 wrong not worn

Edited February 20, 2007 by Istiach

[Ghrae]

I would hope that no one in this thread sees that as the only solution.

 

Mods have ways of dealing with the issues.

Anyone can try reasoning with the player in question.

 

Let's not fall back to a ban is the only fix unless we have to.