Compleat Idiot's Guide to Linux and EL with Linux

[Mugwump]

Maybe this topic belongs in Off-Topic, but my query involves the game as well as the wise gamers whose advice I respect.

 

Entropy's poll on how EL'ers will react to MS Vista coming on the market got me thinking. I have gone from Atari BASIC to Mac Plus to Win 3.1 and followed the MS chain up to XP. Win 98 was my favorite. In Ent's poll, I checked 'No way, I am going to stick to XP and then Linux or Mac', in other words, time for a change!

 

Being curious about Linux for some time, but also being the old dog that don't do tricks let alone new ones, I'm a little worried about diving into an OS that doesn't support half of my software and memorizing another 2000 key commands and coding statements. Even DOS gave me a headache....

 

There is a version of Linux I heard about that might be a good primer when it comes to trying a fresh OS. It's called DSL (Damn Small Linux) and fits in a small space on a Windows machine, apparently can be called up while Win is running, and is supposed to be a reasonable introduction to Linux. Anyone familiar with it and can recommend experimenting on it?

 

I have never tried to use multiple OS'es on multiple drives or partitions due to my DOS angst, but would like to compare Win with Linux on a simple restart. How is this working for you, or is it not that simple?

 

Someone please tell me Linux is not as scary as Vermor Castle before you complete the newbie tutorial! I hear of so many different versions, which is best, which work or don't with EL...... Waaah!

 

I have a wide open mind, I'm just old and lazy... much of my current software is Open Source which is compatible between OS'es (via download) but some is Win exclusive including my cherished Paint Shop Pro and MacroMedia bits. I'd like to bounce between OS'es to use these if possibe. Anyone have/use that kind of capability?

 

My Win version of EL suffers from a lot of effects due to my machine. FPS barely goes above 10, and if I surf the forums in the background the Grue comes and gives me atomic wedgies. My graphics card is a weenie at 16mb but holds up like a Marine in a mosh pit for the game. Still, I have to keep my options down to the minimum. All the Windows nonsense running in the background has an effect on this I'm sure, but will I expect the same from Linux?

 

In short, can/should I try to learn Linux while keeping Windows to fall back on?

(Ow, my fingers hurt, sorry about all that typing...and thanks for reading it!)

[Schmurk]

You don't have to be afraid of Linux, and you'll not need to know console commands to use it. If you want to have a quick try, I recommend you to download and burn the last Ubuntu CD iso. You'll just have to put it in your CD-ROM drive and boot on it to start a live system. Then if you find it interesting (I have not doubt on that ) you'll be able to install it easily on your computer.

The thing which is really great with Ubuntu is their community. There's a lot of online documentation to help you install drivers, softwares, etc...

 

About your windows applications, and if you don't plan to play newest games, you can try wine which is able to let you run a lot of windows programs under linux and even some games. You also have crossover which is the commercial part of wine which is really nice and quite cheap. And for games, there's also cedega but I never tried it. Anyway I'm willing to do so in the coming weeks I think...

[eagleprince]

Hi there,

 

I play EL on Zenwalk. I aslo use two pieces of Windows software for my charting. Were it not for those, there would be nothing Microsoft in my house. For now, however, I simply choose between Linux and Windows at boot time. I am rather proud of my Zenwalk machine, and if you pick up the March 2007 issue of Linux Format magazine, it has two great Linux versions that you can try without installing them! Unfortunately, I am not sure about the distribution of the magazine outside the UK.

 

Anyway, Linux has more tolerance for old hardware than Windows does, so I am fairly confident that you will be able to play EL on your machine if you managed it on Windows. However, since you use dial-up, what you are likely to have trouble with is your modem, since a lot of PCI modems are what we call win-modems, and Linux does not like those. This is usually not an issue if you have an external modem. Please list the type of hardware in your machine so we can help you make a more-informed decision.

 

Stuff like modem name/type, processor type and speed, graphics card name will help for starters.

 

EP

[smalul]

I want to do the same as Mugwump, only that I already installed a few versions of Linux (on a separate hard drive), including that Ubuntu Linux, and I came to the conclusion that Linux is a mess. See, Linux is written by individuals, and every one of those coders thinks he's smarter than the rest. The result - many versions of the OS itself and many version of similar programs, but only some compatibility between them, as there is no standard for anything. This means you'll have problems with updating drivers and installing different programs. Also, the Linux "idea" dictates separating different types of files into different locations, so in the EL case, you won't be able to find all EL's files in one directory like you can in windows, which is annoying.

Another problem with Linux is the GUI. First, there are different types of desktops, and some programs only works with one kind of desktop. Another is the lack of GUI for many things you use to have in Windows, which means you either have to look for the right GUI in the Internet (good luck), or you'll have to spend hours reading the commands' help and manual files in order to set something up.

Oh, and I haven't talked about the file system - it's a problem mounting a Windows based partition, mainly NTFS, as it's a proprietary file system, so it could be a problem gaining access to files on your Windows partition (like your documents).

 

My suggestion is to install another hard drive (an old one if you can), disconnect your main hard drive, and install Linux on that drive. Worst case - you can return to your normal OS (windows) without any trouble.

Edited February 15, 2007 by smalul

[boognish]

i would recommend Ubuntu http://www.ubuntu.com/ or Knoppix http://www.knoppix.net/ these are live distributions that you can try without making any serious changes to your existing system.

Yes, most internal dial-up modems will be difficult or impossible to use with Linux.

If you stick to it, then Vermor Castle isn't scary at all, and it feels good to know you can own the place.

[Entropy]

I know that everyone recommends Ubuntu, but I don't. What I don't like about it is their puritanism, they don't want to have closed drivers installed by default.

So basically by installing Ubuntu you will only be left with 2D drivers, and half of your hardware won't work (well, at least on the laptops). Same for all kind of codecs and binary only programs.

 

Now, you can install the 3d drivers on Ubuntu, and you can install the closed source codecs and so on. But if you are new to Linux this can be a pain.

 

One distro I really liked, that detected pretty much all the hardware on my laptop is Mandriva: http://www.mandriva.com/

I think it is much more user friendly than Ubuntu.

 

Alternatively, if you can try FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/

FreeBSD is what we run on the EL game server. It's a Unix variant, and it's not Linux, but most of the Linux stuff does work on FreeBSD. The driver support is not as good as Linux, but it is a viable desktop solution. So give it a try.

[larrystorch]

You should definitely try a Live CD distro to see if Linux is something you could learn to use. Once you've gotten the bug to really get into it, use an old hard drive you might have laying around and dual boot between Linux and Windows. If you dont like it after trying a live distro, nothing is lost except for a little bit of your time.

 

I converted about ten years ago, and yes, it was a big pain in the ass to get my nice and shiny 3dfx card to run Quake 2 in 3D. In the first year alone, I had to reinstall Red Hat 5 twice for screwing something up. But after the second year of running, I made the switchover to Linux 100% and have never looked back.

 

It is easy to use, but hard to learn and maintain at times. And yes, the "Free as in beer" vs. the "Free as in speech" war gets old like Ent said. I think it's easier for a new linux user to get up and running now than it was 10 years ago.

[The_Piper]

And another one you may try, im running SuSE since years and its more or less ok.

 

http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org

 

Piper

[MagpieLee]

this is a good thread. I'm hoping for people like me (Windows native scumbags as someone would refer to) to learn more things about Linux.

Sticky Glue this threead

[Eublepharis]

One distro I really liked, that detected pretty much all the hardware on my laptop is Mandriva: http://www.mandriva.com/

I think it is much more user friendly than Ubuntu.

Also installing programs on it is a lot easier (apt-get RPM)

[Schmurk]

One distro I really liked, that detected pretty much all the hardware on my laptop is Mandriva: http://www.mandriva.com/

I think it is much more user friendly than Ubuntu.

Also installing programs on it is a lot easier (apt-get RPM)

I don't get it?

Ent spoke about Mandriva and you speak about apt-get...

BTW, as an old Debian user (but now on Ubuntu) I have to say long life to apt-get!

[rmiles]

I use Centos 4.3. It is a Redhat enterprise linux clone. (its free). The software remains stable as not with Fedora and Ubuntu. I have been using el for over a year without the need for major update.

[Aerowind]

I recommend Fedora Core 6. I haven't used Ubuntu recently but I thought it was quite messy when I used it. Mandriva is a nice one also, but I was a nub and screwed my experience up. But unless you plan on playing hard hitting games, Linux is very nice. All you really need is to properly configure Wine, get VLC (Video Lan Client), your accelerated graphics driver, then Eternal Lands, you should be set.

 

Google is also your friend. If you don't know how to install something, usually you can type "Installing <program> on <distribution>" and you'll find some guide on how to install it. Fedora Core 6 and Mandriva are recommended by me because there's rpm's. Debian and Ubuntu have apt-get which is a similar more stable version of it, but it's not as widely supported by software distributors.

 

And if it's not a game, there is probably a clone of the software out there somewhere.

[larrystorch]

http://www.linuxquestions.org/ is also a very good help forum for Linux in general and for specific distributions. Edited February 15, 2007 by larrystorch

[Mugwump]

Great info! Thanks to all.

 

One thing I forgot to mention is I have a bevy of used machines at hand (all windows) to experiment with so long as I can make some desk space (time to throw out the bed...) With all the wacky peripherals I have plugged into 10 USB ports I think it's this machine stays as is! Plus I'm hoping to hook up to Fiber Optical soon.

 

In the meantime, I can see there's plenty of research and experimenting to do!

[Entropy]

Try this then:

http://www.freesbie.org/index.html It's a live image of FreeBSD (you can try it without installing it).

[Suessie]

Here is what some people made who really love our FreeBSD:

 

"PC-BSD has been designed with the "casual" computer user in mind. Installing the system is simply a matter of a few clicks and a few minutes for the installation process to finish."

 

You will find it here: http://www.pcbsd.org/index.php?p=learnhome

 

There is also a step by step help to get it running.

And I think there is also a BSD guild in EL, for sure some BSD user, who would like to help you also.

Give it a try

[eagleprince]

By the way, there is only 1 Linux.

 

What happens is while some people use the vacuum cleaner, some prefer a dustpan and broom. Different people tag on their own philosophies and software, and end up with their own 'brand' of Linux. For example, we have Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu, which differ primarily in the desktop. People's choices tend to depend on their taste and personality, as well as what their primary use of the system will be.

 

I would also like to recommend PcOSLinux and/or Mepis These are super-easy flavours of Linux that just work!

[flinto]

Can I also suggest that if you are coming over from XP that you start using KDE as your desktop and not gnome or any of the slim footprint Window Managers (here come the flames). Using kde was painless for my wife and children when I moved them from windows 3 years back.

 

btw I use SuSE from 6.1 and before that slackware

[Entropy]

Here is what some people made who really love our FreeBSD:

 

"PC-BSD has been designed with the "casual" computer user in mind. Installing the system is simply a matter of a few clicks and a few minutes for the installation process to finish."

 

You will find it here: http://www.pcbsd.org/index.php?p=learnhome

 

There is also a step by step help to get it running.

And I think there is also a BSD guild in EL, for sure some BSD user, who would like to help you also.

Give it a try

 

PC-BSD is nice but needs to be installed, and I think it's better if he tries a live image first.

I also had some problems with PC-BSD, like an USB mouse not working properly (ie. at all), and a crash when I inserted a PC Card in my computer.

[wexy]

1. Linux is not an operating system (only a kernel)

2. GNU/Linux is an operation system

3. There are different flavours of it, called distros (distributions)

 

I can't really believe at the stuff some people write here. Why are you so damn scared of it!? What is so wrong with using terminal and writing few commands that do the job faster than you would open some fancy graphical interface and click ten times to change the name of something!?

 

None of us was born with knowledge of how to use Windows, so, none of us is born with knowledge to use another operating system either. What's the problem with learning it?

 

Too many versions? Too many programs that do same thing? To many graphical interfaces? So? Is it wrong that it lets you choose what suits to you, even change it if you don't like how it looks? It's better if it behaves like Windows and ask you to behave and USE it how OTHERS made it work and no other option at all!?

 

Many versions of something = competition between makers = happy users with better and better software.

 

Yes GNU/Linux can be a pain and using it can be an adventure, especially if you treat it like Windows and if you are lazy like hell to read anything. It's not Windows, it's not made to be like Windows and it will never be like Windows, which is great!

 

I've been using GNU/Linux since RedHat 6.2 and never had a single major problem with hardware support. After few googlings and reading you can solve every problem.

 

Give it a try for a month or two (I recommend Fedora Core 6), don't treat/use it like you used Windows, ask other people that use it about how some things are done, you'll discover something new and you won't be comming back to Windows after that.

[bkc56]

Too many versions?

That's my fundamental problem.

 

I was using Unix 25+ years ago in school. I used HP-UX at work starting the year it came out. I've used Linux at work off-and-on the last few years. And I always have a unix-like shell package (like MKS toolkit) installed on my PCs. That's not the problem.

 

In this tread alone the following versions have been recommended:

 

Ubuntu

Zenwalk

Knoppix

Mandriva

Freebsd

Red Hat 5

SuSE

Centos 4.3

Fedora Core 6

PcOSLinux

Mepis

Slackware

 

I got no problem playing around with one of them at home, I just have NO clue which one.

[hades]

I will recommend another to create more confusion DEBIAN ! the best distro around check here http://www.debian.com/

 

I suppose you can always install MS virtual pc and install a bunch of distros to pick the one that suits better your needs. TIP : DEBIAN

 

You can always try http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html HURD if you like challenges

Edited February 16, 2007 by hades

[tranql]

Too many versions?

That's my fundamental problem.

 

I got no problem playing around with one of them at home, I just have NO clue which one.

Have fun choosing between:

Windows Vista Starter Edition

Windows Vista Home Basic Edition

Windows Vista Home Premium Edition

Windows Vista Professional Edition

Windows Vista Small Business Edition

Windows Vista Enterprise Edition

Windows Vista Ultimate Edition

of course, these names are self-explanatory (not) and you know intuitively what the differences are and which one you need

 

On a more serious note, why don't you just look at the webpages of some of them and decide to play around with one if you still feel the need to do so?

[hades]

of course, these names are self-explanatory (not) and you know intuitively what the differences are and which one you need smile.gif

 

if you go ULTIMATE you never go wrong but yeah just a smart ass way of steal more money ....

 

glad we have http://katz.ws/