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Artificer broken?

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I have had the artificer perk now for some time and based on my experience and after chatting with several players that have taken the Artificer perk the common consensus seems to be that the perk seems to be broken. That is, instead of increasing the likelihood of making a rare essence or potion, it actually seems to be reducing it.

 

What can I do as a player to help illustrate this?

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First of all, you have to understand that it only doubles your 'chance' of creating an enriched item. Most people I talk to seem to think that they are going to make a ton of enriched ess/pots/armor/etc. It doesn't exactly work that way. It is bound by chance as with making an enriched item without the perk. Here is a purely hypothetical example: Let's say the chance to make an enriched item is 1:5000. With the perk you will have a 1:2500 to make an enriched item. Now that doesn't necessarily mean you will make 1 for every 2500 of that item you make. Over time you should have an average of about 1:2500. But even if you don't, that doesn't mean the perk is 'broken'. It just means that you have made less than average with the perk.

 

I have the perk and it seems to go in cycles for me. I will make several enriched items in a short time and then none for a while. Yes, it is aggrivating, but at the same time the perk only increases your 'chance' to make an enriched item. Some items have a much better chance of making an enriched one, while others continue to remain elusive. In many cases you really need to make tens of thousands of an item to get a good idea of what your average is. Even then, two people with the perk that have made the exact same number of a specific item will probably not have the same number of enriched makes of that item. Not to mention, we really don't know the exact chance to make each enriched item (At least not that I have heard for most items.)

 

I sometimes joke that my artif perk is 'broken' but it's just that I'm having a dry spell, it passes. Personaly, the perk is worth every pickpoint I spent on it. Others disagree and that's fine. The perk isn't for everyone, it's a huge investment at 7 pp.

 

I keep good records on my ratios, I'll share just a few.

ELE/LE 9/2,445 (1/271)

EFE/FE 29/48,547 (1/1,674)

EMP/SR 39/24,175 (1/620)

I just recently made my first ever EWE. That ratio looks like this EWE/WE 1/9057.

 

Some people with the perk will have better or worse ratios than I just listed above, the same can be true for people without the perk.

 

I don't know if I helped to explain at all how the perk works, but I don't think it is 'broken'. If anyone else can explain better, or if I am incorrect in any part of my explaination, then please correct me.

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I am aware of how the perk is supposed to work and that it only doubles the chance. The problem I (and others) are perceiving is that we made more enriched essences or special items (higher ratio) without the perk than we have after taking the perk. The law of averages dictates that this shouldn't happen.

 

Is there any evidence that we as players can provide to help illustrate our case?

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I think that to prove your point, you would have to have much larger samples pre/post. If an item has a rate of enriched at 1/3000 or so, you probably need to have a sample in the hundred thousands if not millions to accurately assess the perk. Describing results with small samples sizes proves nothing.

Edited by LevinMage

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The problem I (and others) are perceiving is that we made more enriched essences or special items (higher ratio) without the perk than we have after taking the perk. The law of averages dictates that this shouldn't happen.

I was once told that the chance of making a rare item isn't fixed, but in fact lowers as your level raises, so that in lower levels the chance is higher. I'm not quite sure how true this is, but it could explain your "observation" - the higher your level grow, the lower your chances of making a rare item, and at some point the chance of making a rare item, even with the artificer perk, is lower than the chance in lower levels without the artificer perk. Again, I don't know how true this is, so it could be that you're just having some "bad luck".

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I used to have arti perk and reset later. Because luck becomes statistics if the number of attempts is large enough, it is useful to start looking at a ratio if you have more than 10 or better, 20.

 

I dare say that the sessions that I have obtained 2 enriched potions are almost the same number as the sessions with one enriched potion. Of course, most sessions contain no enriched potions (one session for me is 200 potions). This is statistically very unlikely but many people have observed it.

 

In short, enriched items like to pair up. Getting one enriched is a signal to go on and try to get more enriched.

 

What I am really interested in, is whether an enriched essence showing up also indicates a 'enriched-rich' session for modable swords and special uberstuff.

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In short, enriched items like to pair up. Getting one enriched is a signal to go on and try to get more enriched.

Sounds weird, but thats what I was seeing before I took Articifer -- EFEs seemed to come in pairs.

 

This could just be subjective -- memories are skewed in favor of unusual events -- but many other things seem to happen in pairs (worth an analysis of the chat logs for harvesting events?). If it is not subjective, I doubt it is by design, possibly a side effect of how the single RNG is being used.

 

On the original topic -- since taking Articifer I seem to have produced very little in the way of enriched or enhanced items compared to before, but again that could be just subjective; my counters currently show 5272 FE & 2 EFE ( 1 in 2600+/-1900 @ 63% certainty).

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(...)

Others disagree and that's fine. The perk isn't for everyone, it's a huge investment at 7 pp.

(...)

:)

that's why i finally reseted : 7pp to have 2 lottery tickets instead of one was too much for meh... and daytime cursing about it on guildchan wasn't fun anymore after a few months. :icon4:

 

good ol'days, anyway. :D

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From a fighter point of view:

 

The special hits from magic armours/weapons often (not always) come in pairs too.

 

Same goes for breaking stuff......a long time (sometimes few days) no breaking then suddenly 2 or 3 items in a few hours.

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I am aware of how the perk is supposed to work and that it only doubles the chance.

 

Huh? Double the chance? Where did you get that from?

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I am aware of how the perk is supposed to work and that it only doubles the chance.

 

Huh? Double the chance? Where did you get that from?

Thats what the encylopedia says.

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I am aware of how the perk is supposed to work and that it only doubles the chance.

 

Huh? Double the chance? Where did you get that from?

How does it work then if that what everybody took for granted is false?

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I took this perk as well, from the description I had read it 'doubles' your chances to make a 'rare' item, but I've noticed that it seems to have not made much difference.... is this Perk actually WORKING, or has it been 'broken' from the start? Having to reset to clear a non-working Perk at an over-70 OA would be a pain, to say the least.

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we all spent 7PP for a mere 30%?

the info in a number of places all says doubled chances... maybe, since people expect that, and it does cost a lot (enough that people have to debate whether it's worth it for them assuming 2x) it could be put to double now..?

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I am aware of how the perk is supposed to work and that it only doubles the chance.

 

Huh? Double the chance? Where did you get that from?

Thats what the encylopedia says.

 

Also- that's what the wraith says when you take the perk.

 

I took that to mean the following: If a rare item usually happens 1 in 4000 times, then with the perk is should happen 1 in 2000 times. I don't have it anymore... I guess I'm glad.

 

scafativ

Edited by scafativ

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we all spent 7PP for a mere 30%?

the info in a number of places all says doubled chances... maybe, since people expect that, and it does cost a lot (enough that people have to debate whether it's worth it for them assuming 2x) it could be put to double now..?

 

The 'mere' 30% is a lot if you make lots of items. Obviously, it can't double the rare items value because then people could make an alt, get the perk, and flood the market with rare items. Some people I believe do that already, but increasing the chance to 50% would totally ruin the market.

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30%??? EVERYTHING I read said DOUBLES. I was very careful about taking any Perks and researched everything about them I could, examining anything that any NPC or the Encyclopedia said about them. Had I known that I would blow 7 PP on a 30% increase, I'd have never done it. Now I'm looking at a reset and a LONG time to relevel. Not cool.

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The 'mere' 30% is a lot
not compared to 7PP it's not. had the info been correct and said 30%, artificer would probably be almost unused, I don't think that many people would have given up 7PP had it been right

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30%??? EVERYTHING I read said DOUBLES. I was very careful about taking any Perks and researched everything about them I could, examining anything that any NPC or the Encyclopedia said about them. Had I known that I would blow 7 PP on a 30% increase, I'd have never done it. Now I'm looking at a reset and a LONG time to relevel. Not cool.

 

 

Perhaps there might be a way, for the perk to be removed and the 7pps and gold returned to the character without going through a reset. People took that perk on good faith based on what the Wraith and the encyclopedia said. It might be a good compromise since there was no one at fault for this.

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"Artificer: doubles the chance of creating rare items (modable weapons, enriched essences, etc.). cost: 7 points, 2000 gold"

 

Thats what the wraith says.

 

Piper

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How about giving people that have already taken it a chance to get the PP spent on it back without a reset. All documentation that I've seen indicates it doubles it. CelticLady even stated as much in her post that you simply responded to with:

 

What CelticLady said.

 

As others have stated the encyclopedia states it doubles it as does the wraith. Based on your own statements, this is not in fact what the perk does.

 

Is there a way that the perk could be removed from those that opt to have it remove and the 7 pp given back to them? Perhaps remove the perk and over their next 7 OA they get 2 PP instead of the normal 1?

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Well, sorry again. This was changed since the beginning of time, almost 3 years ago. If you liked that perk before you found out about the not double thing, then you should like the perk now too, because finding out about it doesn't change anything.

I will however rectify what the wraith said, and I hope the encyclopedia maintainers and other websites will correct the information soon.

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